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Jerry The Saint
06/02/2007, 5:26 PM
Basically they cheated their way to the title. Im suprised you lads arent going ballistic at this


Now come on, let's be reasonable about this - all anyone is accusing them of doing is massive overspending to purchase players they couldn't afford and had no intention of paying every week;


and withholding money from the taxman, deliberately defaulting several times on repayment schedules before telling a national newspaper that "it's just something you do to keep them off your back";


and supplying financial documents that may not have shown the full extent of their financial difficulties in order to obtain a license to compete in the league...


It's not as if Ollie was the type to go shouting "RULES IS RULES" and appealing to every court in the land whenever something didn't go his way. The way some people are going on you'd think Shels had commited some truly DESPICABLE crime against football like waiting for 5 games before being informed about a mistake in Stuey Byrne's registration papers, even though the under-contract player had already been with Shels for some time and his validity to play for the team had never been questioned by any party. That's the type of thing that really needs to be punished.
bigmac
06/02/2007, 5:41 PM
I'll work out what would have happened with the League table later tonight if Shels record were expunged

Derry would have won with 58
Drogs second with 57
Cork third with 49

Couldn't be arsed looking at the rest of the table, but I don't think there'd have been much change.
LukeO
06/02/2007, 5:47 PM
I think someone worked this out on another thread a week or two ago... Can't find it though!
Dodge
06/02/2007, 6:13 PM
Derry would have won with 58
Drogs second with 57
Cork third with 49

Couldn't be arsed looking at the rest of the table, but I don't think there'd have been much change.

Is that with or without the Dublin City results? :p
pete
06/02/2007, 6:29 PM
Penalising Shels retrospectively would highlight the FAIs negligence in the licening process but I suppose it never affected them when penalised Rovers...

:confused:
BohsPartisan
06/02/2007, 8:34 PM
I'll work out what would have happened with the League table later tonight if Shels record were expunged

I already did, its somewhere earlier in this thread. No change in positions.

Edit:
Here ye go:
If Shels' results were expunged (http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=614255&postcount=219)
blackholesun
06/02/2007, 8:55 PM
>They were deducted 8 points, purely because thats all the had earned at that time.

Rovers had 7 points at the time and were knocked back down to -1 IIRC

>A similar punishment for Shels would be fair.

Fair for Shels or anyone else

bhs
Dodge
06/02/2007, 9:10 PM
>They were deducted 8 points, purely because thats all the had earned at that time.

Rovers had 7 points at the time and were knocked back down to -1 IIRC
No, they definitely had 8. No other reason for that random figure



>A similar punishment for Shels would be fair.

Fair for Shels or anyone else


Fair for the league as it would show some consistency
fergalr
06/02/2007, 9:47 PM
Its interesting what you find when you search the archives (http://www.foot.ie/showthread.php?t=25073&highlight=points+deduction) to see what the world was like when the 8 point deduction was imposed.
Dodge
07/02/2007, 12:25 AM
He hee he. Funny thread alright
Calcio Jack
07/02/2007, 7:38 AM
Its interesting what you find when you search the archives (http://www.foot.ie/showthread.php?t=25073&highlight=points+deduction) to see what the world was like when the 8 point deduction was imposed.

When you read that stuff as a Rovers fan it's like another country..... by God we've reversed matters big time and we're not finished yet... to be a Hoop is just magic
BohsPartisan
07/02/2007, 7:50 AM
Poor guys, we should really not be laughing with the misery of such a traditional club. Still, when you play with fire you know you can get burnt... So saying this is all injustice that they're punished would be wrong.


Brilliant! Shels fans take note of your own words!
Jerry The Saint
07/02/2007, 9:13 AM
When you read that stuff as a Rovers fan it's like another country..... by God we've reversed matters big time and we're not finished yet... to be a Hoop is just magic

Never mind a different country, it's like a different world :eek:


Dublin City have a fickle inconsistent support just like the GAA team. They had bigger support in their promotion season of 2003 than in their Premier Division campaign last season. So in spite of having a more attractive opposition to play against their crowds went down.
Look at the Dublin Gaelic Football team as a comparible example.
Used to use Croker for National League matches now can make do with Parnell Park as only 10,000 max are arsed about going to those games. :D
Peadar
07/02/2007, 10:52 AM
Latest from Tolka... (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/382649214_53ebfd3298_o.gif)
dcfcsteve
07/02/2007, 11:05 AM
Brilliant! Shels fans take note of your own words!

To be fair BP - Gerrit wasn't really a Shels fan. He just arrived over from Belgium looking for a team to support, and latched onto the most successful club at the time....

I believe he's now a Northern Ireland fan - having ditched the Republic - and he's probably a fan of the Glens or someone, rather than Shels...
Mr A
07/02/2007, 12:37 PM
In fairness if he's looking for success he'd be better off with Linfield or Cliftonville at the rate Glens are going!
WeAreRovers
07/02/2007, 1:37 PM
Its interesting what you find when you search the archives (http://www.foot.ie/showthread.php?t=25073&highlight=points+deduction) to see what the world was like when the 8 point deduction was imposed.

That makes great reading in hindsight, especially with Rovers back in the Premier and in profit.

KOH
Student Mullet
11/02/2007, 8:46 PM
If Shels are booted out of the CL will they be in the draw for the fair play spot in the UEFA cup?
feo123
19/02/2007, 10:07 PM
unlucky shels i guess.......sad to see the champions be relegated in a way! should be dundalk...not waterford to come up but my guess is the FAI forgot a team have to be re promoted now shels are gone so might take them a few months for them to get a coin to toss to see who gets promoted!
Gareth
19/02/2007, 10:11 PM
feo123, have you any idea about the fact Dundalk signed teh same agreement as the opther clubs re the decision making process. Its not as though you didn't know winning a playoff from the first didn't mean promotion. God, I mean how many times does it need saying. Waterford finished ahead of Dundalk. So Waterford deserve the place???? If Kilkenny won the league or playoff, do you think they should have gotten promoted , despite this document they agreeed to ??? Argh!
teckno
19/02/2007, 10:14 PM
Please don't start this who should replace Shels rubbish etc. Like it or not it is Waterford United who will be playing Premier next season!!
A face
19/02/2007, 10:18 PM
Please don't start this who should replace Shels rubbish etc. Like it or not it is Waterford United who will be playing Premier next season!!

But what about the playoffs :p
pól-dcfc
19/02/2007, 10:18 PM
WUFC must be promoted for consistencies sake.
A face
19/02/2007, 10:20 PM
WUFC must be promoted for consistencies sake.

Consistency in a league gone mad !! :p
Poor Student
19/02/2007, 10:23 PM
I'm sad to see Waterford get away with resting on their laurels after all. Their second deus ex machina. It'll be interesting to see how their planned squad fits into the Premier Division. Surely they can't overbudget and have cash flow problems this season.
A face
19/02/2007, 10:27 PM
I'm sad to see Waterford get away with resting on their laurels after all. Their second deus ex machina. It'll be interesting to see how their planned squad fits into the Premier Division. Surely they can't overbudget and have cash flow problems this season.

Might have been a good thing because they'll have cut their cloth accordingly.
Tis-smeee
19/02/2007, 10:29 PM
Its exactly ten weeks to the day since we were relegated
BlueAsItGoes
19/02/2007, 10:37 PM
Waterford United have been offered the place in the Premier League. But the board are split on accepting it or not. They were told its there choice.
pineapple stu
19/02/2007, 10:43 PM
Jayz, didn't see that coming. Is it actually a possibility Waterford would turn down the place?

What if Dundalk do the same? Is a 11-team Premier a possibility again?! Think only Waterford, Dundalk, Harps (?) and Cobh have a Premier licence.
DmanDmythDledge
19/02/2007, 10:48 PM
Jayz, didn't see that coming. Is it actually a possibility Waterford would turn down the place?

What if Dundalk do the same? Is a 11-team Premier a possibility again?! Think only Waterford, Dundalk, Harps (?) and Cobh have a Premier licence.
I'd imagine Dundalk would accept seeing as they have a strong squad that appears to be good enough to compete in the Premier.
Réiteoir
19/02/2007, 10:51 PM
I've just upped this large thread on Shels that is swimming around in General - but have to attach one large condition to it being left open.

Acting the ******, trolling, WUMming or general idiocy will not be tolerated.

I'm gonna be around here for most of the night - and will be monitoring the place closely.

This does affect the rest of us - I believe that we should get the opportunity to debate this properly.

Now guys - don't kick this back at us please - this is your chance to discourse in a proper manner.
Dr.Nightdub
19/02/2007, 10:51 PM
Maybe they're thinking it'd be better to finish this season top of the First and come up with the prize money to fund expansion of the team, rather than trying to compete in the Premier with a First Division squad, finish bottom again and be relegated.
Terry
19/02/2007, 10:51 PM
waterford will take it, the money from the gates from playing in the premier as appose to playing in the first division will be the main reason for them accepting it.
charliesboots
19/02/2007, 10:54 PM
waterford will take it, the money from the gates from playing in the premier as appose to playing in the first division will be the main reason for them accepting it.

Not forgetting their champions league spot for replacing Shels!!!:D
BlueAsItGoes
19/02/2007, 10:56 PM
If they dont accept the chance that they have been given I will not go to a game ever again. Last year I paid to go into every game that I was at, I also bought Lotto tickets, even though I was giving 10 euro a week to the club and that 10 euro a week was covering match ticket to every game and free lotto tickets. I paid that money to help keep Waterford United in the Premier League so if they dont Take the chance they have been giving then the Club can go and Fcuk OFF.................
pineapple stu
19/02/2007, 10:57 PM
Maybe they're thinking it'd be better to finish this season top of the First
Does anyone think they'll come top of the First?

I can't see them coming top half to be honest. Shels are nowhere near out of the woods yet from what I can see (huge debt still, ground problems still, Ollie owning the club still, Kilkenny lurking still, no players still, no manager still, time ticking). There's surley an awful lot of work to do just to save the club.
LukeO
19/02/2007, 10:58 PM
I've just upped this large thread on Shels that is swimming around in General - but have to attach one large condition to it being left open.

Acting the ******, trolling, WUMming or general idiocy will not be tolerated.

I'm gonna be around here for most of the night - and will be monitoring the place closely.

This does affect the rest of us - I believe that we should get the opportunity to debate this properly.

Now guys - don't kick this back at us please - this is your chance to discourse in a proper manner.

Agreed, maybe the previous stupid decision to move the Shels threads can be reversed and merged with this one?
ForzaWexford
19/02/2007, 10:59 PM
Does anyone think they'll come top of the First?

I can't see them coming top half to be honest. Shels are nowhere near out of the woods yet from what I can see (huge debt still, ground problems still, Ollie owning the club still, Kilkenny lurking still, no players still, no manager still, time ticking). There's surley an awful lot of work to do just to save the club.

I think he was talking about Waterford....
pineapple stu
19/02/2007, 11:04 PM
Yes, you're right.

Still, a lot of people - especially on the Shels board - are acting almost as this is the end of all their troubles. I can see things going downhill further from here...
delboy
19/02/2007, 11:11 PM
It will be one hell of a fight for the BLUES to get out of the 1st division this year with Dundalk, Athlone, Finn Harps and even Monaghan :eek: looking to have good squads pre-season. However, I think we have a very good 1st division squad more than capable of winning the 1st division title and gaining promotion many of our players have already been through several promotion campaigns and our younger players have the experience of last years fiasco.

I'll bet money if we do get to play in the premier we will finish above at least 4clubs: Galway, Sligo (last year wasa one off you got a 1st season back in the premier bounce and your squad is mch weaker than last years), Longford, Rovers and maybe UCD.
soccerc
19/02/2007, 11:16 PM
Waterford United has not been informed of any change in its league status following the decision of the First Instance Committee to withdraw a Premier License from Shelbourne FC according to a statement just issued

It goes on to say that "While it may be a sad day for Irish football, it also underscores the credibility of the club licensing system. Waterford United committed itself to the IAG selection process last season and accepted the decisions of this committee in December. Now that there has been a change of circumstances in the premier division, it is Waterford United’s view that given the ranking by the IAG, the club is next in line for a place in the new FAI eircom league Premier Division.



The club will be seeking immediate clarification of its options in the wake of this evening’s decision by the First Instance Committee and will consider such options as soon as possible. In the meantime the club‘s management and players will continue to prepare for the new season as normal".
The Man Himself
19/02/2007, 11:20 PM
waterford united deserve to go up,
they did everything by the book and stuck with the rules.

infact they deserve to be there ahead of rovers and galway who bought their way back into the premier.


UP THE BLUES:D
Raheny Red
19/02/2007, 11:22 PM
Yes, you're right.

Still, a lot of people - especially on the Shels board - are acting almost as this is the end of all their troubles. I can see things going downhill further from here...

I know :rolleyes: alot think we'll easily win the first and then back in Europe in no time :rolleyes:
Réiteoir
19/02/2007, 11:22 PM
Just gonna merge this with the massive general thread on this whole issue
Guitd
19/02/2007, 11:24 PM
But what about the playoffs :p

EDIT: Whole tranche of a rant on how play-offs counted towards IAG positions only and not actual elevation to the Premier
Lim till i die
19/02/2007, 11:26 PM
waterford united deserve to go up,
they did everything by the book and stuck with the rules.

infact they deserve to be there ahead of rovers and galway who bought their way back into the premier.


UP THE BLUES:D

Waaaaaaterford didn't even put on a pretence of an effort last year as they thought their boy in Dublin would sort them out. Another shambles if they go up instead of Dundalk tbh :ball:
Carotheplayer
19/02/2007, 11:26 PM
The IAG pole should rule supreme. That is what everyone agreed on. This means Waterford are the natural selection (at this late stage I can't see much delight at joining the Premier when you have focused all your energy towards the First Division)

The next nightmare is the fixtures, with appeals and the like how long more do we have to wait. You never know the flippin High Court might just line out for a second time. Oh Lord me thinks another disaster is looming.

Role on March 9th (we'll probably get fixtures by midnight March 8th)
Réiteoir
19/02/2007, 11:26 PM
EDIT: Whole tranche of a rant on how play-offs counted towards IAG positions only and not actual elevation to the Premier

He was being sarcastic to be honest :D



infact they deserve to be there ahead of rovers and galway who bought their way back into the premier.


Back that statement up with facts - or withdraw it
BlueAsItGoes
19/02/2007, 11:33 PM
Waterford United has not been informed of any change in its league status following the decision of the First Instance Committee to withdraw a Premier License from Shelbourne FC according to a statement just issued


St Francis..... let me say it 1 more time I know for an absolute fact even though Waterford United have said that there is no change in there situation at the moment that they HAVE been offered a place in the Premier League next season... I have heard it from 3 Management Committee members now.. they are only trying to keep things quiet here for the time being while they decide what to do.
Louth4sam
19/02/2007, 11:40 PM
St Francis..... let me say it 1 more time I know for an absolute fact even though Waterford United have said that there is no change in there situation at the moment that they HAVE been offered a place in the Premier League next season... I have heard it from 3 Management Committee members now.. they are only trying to keep things quiet here for the time being while they decide what to do.

Would you really want to go up? I dont want Dundalk to go up as its too late we've signed players to try and win the first division and all preparations have been made for that. I think its too late for us to go up now as we could struggle in the premier.