Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread [Archive] - Page 12

Mr A

04/02/2007, 7:18 PM

Irishfootball Online reports that the FAI have expressed "serious concern" about Shels license and have requested more information from the club. See here (http://www.irishfootballonline.com/news_story.php?newsid=5938)

steno

04/02/2007, 7:33 PM

Interesting week ahead. Shels could be in the 1st Division and lose their Champions League spot.

You have to wonder what was going on in the heads of those responsible for awarding a premier license to Shels in the first place. Firstly there is the winding up orders last season and then Shels show books with debts of millions according to the Times for the license application.

It screams Fincial Anarchy. How an earth did they think Shels were going to handle the debt?. Did they even bother to ask or just simply go Yeah alright lads of ya go with your premir license, its only money after all. You can't run a club with no money how obvious is that?. All the same I still hope Shels survive.

OneRedArmy

05/02/2007, 5:05 AM

I`m particularly interested in the wages paid in Sterling by Ollie. Presumably League Cup Final gate receipt share (as opposed to Northern Bank notes)?

Quote that Ollie`s business model isn't exactly the way they teach it in business school is akin to saying that Atilla the Hun played rough from time to time.

Risteard

05/02/2007, 9:35 AM

I can only imagine the serious concern that the First Instance Committee has.
Hopefully, they'll take it up with those responsible. Oh wait . . . . . . . . . .

Dodge

05/02/2007, 9:38 AM

charliesboots

05/02/2007, 9:47 AM

So the FAI knew they were millions in debt and had a massive operating loss for last year? And still gave them a licence?

Judging by Rovers points deduction Shels will be docked every point they earned alst year...

They won't have the balls to do what we all know should be done. The thing that really ****es me off is that if this was happening to any other club Ollie would be looking for blood - rules are rules etc etc.

I hope they get what's coming to them.

bohs til i die

05/02/2007, 10:06 AM

They won't have the balls to do what we all know should be done. The thing that really ****es me off is that if this was happening to any other club Ollie would be looking for blood - rules are rules etc etc.

I hope they get what's coming to them.

When the McGuinness thing happened last year we had Shels fans waffling about how Bohs deliberately set out to cheat against Shels.

The FAI ahve to take serious action because if they want the new look premier league to have any credibility then Shels cannot be in it

hoopy

05/02/2007, 10:11 AM

Judging by Rovers points deduction Shels will be docked every point they earned alst year...

But it wasn't the present regime that docked the points and no doubt that'll be their excuse to leave Shels alone

bohs til i die

05/02/2007, 10:15 AM

But it wasn't the present regime that docked the points and no doubt that'll be their excuse to leave Shels alone

Thats the same excuse Rovers used to stiff their creditors isnt it [it wasnt us your honour] :rolleyes:

Calcio Jack

05/02/2007, 10:24 AM

Thats the same excuse Rovers used to stiff their creditors isnt it [it wasnt us your honour] :rolleyes:

We didn't stiff anyone.... like it or not we took the risk of entering into a period ofExaminership and took the hit of losing points which in effect relegated .... we then let a High Court judge whether we had a business plan capable of sucess and negotiated and made a legally binding settlement with our creditors who agreed to it. We're now over a year on from the Examinership and have just reported a €25k profit for last year. All of the foregoing is an option that is open to Shels and were they to follow that course and be sucessful , then I say good luck to them.

passerrby

05/02/2007, 10:39 AM

[QUOTE=.... we then let a High Court judge .[/QUOTE]
I dont think it was a case of let

khoop

05/02/2007, 10:58 AM

Thats the same excuse Rovers used to stiff their creditors isnt it

Obsessed.

bohs til i die

05/02/2007, 11:05 AM

We didn't stiff anyone.... like it or not we took the risk of entering into a period ofExaminership and took the hit of losing points which in effect relegated .... we then let a High Court judge whether we had a business plan capable of sucess and negotiated and made a legally binding settlement with our creditors who agreed to it. We're now over a year on from the Examinership and have just reported a �25k profit for last year. All of the foregoing is an option that is open to Shels and were they to follow that course and be sucessful , then I say good luck to them.

http://www.westseneca.net/images/fish.gif

Dodge

05/02/2007, 11:14 AM

lads, lets not turn a perfectably enjoyable Anti-Shels thread descend into Bohs/Rovers.

charliesboots

05/02/2007, 11:18 AM

lads, lets not turn a perfectably enjoyable Anti-Shels thread descend into Bohs/Rovers.

agreed:D

The Man Himself

05/02/2007, 11:30 AM

just wondering what the likley out come will be?

dcfcsteve

05/02/2007, 11:31 AM

I can only imagine the serious concern that the First Instance Committee has.
Hopefully, they'll take it up with those responsible. Oh wait . . . . . . . . . .

Surely they'd have to re-name themselves the 'Second Instance Committee' to do anything about this though.....?

:)

dcfcsteve

05/02/2007, 11:55 AM

. Many who know him well believe he is being harshly judged for what is happening at Tolka Park, and nobody who has had any dealings with him would make the mistake of taking him for a fool.

Byrne had made the critical error of not indexing the purchase price, and so, while he and his colleagues searched for a new home against a background of soaring property prices, the capital sum that would be realised started to decline significantly in real terms.

Am I the only one who finds those two bits of the Emmet Malone article completely impossible to reconcile......? :confused:

dcfcsteve

05/02/2007, 11:57 AM

Let me just dust-off my crystal ball for you.....

hoops1

05/02/2007, 1:11 PM

Stop! News just in. Its sorted now the Shels fans have just come up with the solution to all their problems on Shelsweb. Simple really, a thread about Greg Costello, Now everything is rosey. Why didnt we think of that earlier.:eek: :rolleyes: Good work lads

Kingdom

05/02/2007, 1:12 PM

You seem to be talking to yourself there Steve:D

TonyD

05/02/2007, 1:18 PM

The thing that really ****es me off is that if this was happening to any other club Ollie would be looking for blood - rules are rules etc etc.

Absolutely, imagine Ollie as CEO of Derry at the moment, he'd be jumping up and down demanding Champions League spot, and probably the league prize money as well.

oriel

05/02/2007, 8:06 PM

There`s shades of comical Ali (gulf war 2 fame) about Ollies rant from his hospital bed

'Crisis, no no, no crisis here, everything is fine, no need to panic, we will be victorious again in 2007'

Calcio Jack

06/02/2007, 8:39 AM

I dont think it was a case of let

I think you know what I meant i.e. we did everything by the book and presented our plans to the Judge who then decided whether we had a viable plan or not and despite being a self confessed Bohs fan , he had the good sense to ratify it and fair play to him.....as I said our present financial stability is a vindication of that decision

which for me proves beyond ay reasonable doubt that the Judges in this country are truely independent and really do take their roles seriousely and are able to put aside any predudices they may have and focus only on the legal issues in question when hearing a case

The Man Himself

06/02/2007, 9:14 AM

bohs til i die

06/02/2007, 9:28 AM

this shelbourne thing seems to be getting brushed under the carpet which makes the whole set up of the league and the fai a total farce,
they should have kicked into the 1st division straight away and stripped of their league championship with derry getting the honours and waterford getting promoted back to the premier. end of.

The current situation is Shels were asked to answer several questions, they did so. The Licence group met and raised further questions in light of answers provided by Shels interim board. I'd expect a decision by Friday [well thats what im hearing] and that decision is expected to be Shels in the First Division and Derry in the CL.

The Man Himself

06/02/2007, 9:32 AM

The current situation is Shels were asked to answer several questions, they did so. The Licence group met and raised further questions in light of answers provided by Shels interim board. I'd expect a decision by Friday [well thats what im hearing] and that decision is expected to be Shels in the First Division and Derry in the CL.

and who gets the place in the premier, dundalk or waterford?

hoops1

06/02/2007, 9:35 AM

Relegated and Stripped of last seasons Championship!

oriel

06/02/2007, 9:58 AM

and who gets the place in the premier, dundalk or waterford?

Oh thats an easy one, the losers of the play-off of course, Waterford Utd.

Joking aside they were ranked just above us, besides we have assembled a side to win the first div, not to compete in the premier, see you all next season.......................

BohsPartisan

06/02/2007, 10:12 AM

Relegated and Stripped of last seasons Championship!

Has this happened or is this what you think should happen? Some clarification please.

Dodge

06/02/2007, 10:14 AM

hasn't happened.

Clubs that will benfit; Derry (Cl place, possibly championship), Pats (UEFA Cup), Waterford (promotion to first). Seems like this is great news for the league :D

OneRedArmy

06/02/2007, 11:43 AM

I can see Shels getting relegated and kicked out of Europe on the basis of falsifying/not meeting 2007 licensing criteria, but to strip them of the League (which is probably morally correct) would require them to have serious issues with the 2006 license.

I live in hope, but I thinks its unlikely they will lose the league title.

Kingdom

06/02/2007, 12:34 PM

lofty9

06/02/2007, 1:01 PM

Relegated and Stripped of last seasons Championship!

Treble winners 06/07? ;)

hoops1

06/02/2007, 1:06 PM

Congrats

Macy

06/02/2007, 1:07 PM

Treble winners 06/07? ;)
At last, a non-shels view on what it's like to win the league off the pitch.

charliesboots

06/02/2007, 1:16 PM

Can someone clarify something for me please.

Last seasons finish was this:

Shels (CL)
Derry (Ue)
Drogheda (I/T)
Cork
Cup: Derry --> Would Pats get a place in Ue as runners-up ?

If Shels are demoted and Derry awarded the CL spot, would it not be Drogheda getting a Ue spot and Cork the Intertoto, as effectively all clubs would be getting pushed up a place in the league?

Yep if Shels are stripped of their champs league place it would be:

CL - Derry City
UEFA Cup - Drogheda United, St Pats (cup runners up)
Intertoto - Cork City

wws

06/02/2007, 1:17 PM

Yep if Shels are stripped of their champs league place it would be:

CL - Derry City
UEFA Cup - Drogheda United, St Pats (cup runners up)
Intertoto - Cork City

FAI please note!

Dodge

06/02/2007, 1:41 PM

If Shels are demoted and Derry awarded the CL spot, would it not be Drogheda getting a Ue spot and Cork the Intertoto, as effectively all clubs would be getting pushed up a place in the league?

Drogheda are already in the UEFA Cup and Cork are already in the Intertoto

OneRedArmy

06/02/2007, 2:40 PM

At last, a non-shels view on what it's like to win the league off the pitch.I'd honestly prefer it if the League was taken off Shels and not awarded at all.

Awarding it to us would be a hollow victory, whether deserved on not.

Burnsie

06/02/2007, 3:09 PM

there's no question of shelbourne forfeiting the title. they won that if not fair then square. there's no reason to disturb last season's league table in any way whatever. the issue of allocating european places is independent of that, even if ordinarily one governs the other

hoops1

06/02/2007, 3:29 PM

I'd honestly prefer it if the League was taken off Shels and not awarded at all.

Awarding it to us would be a hollow victory, whether deserved on not.

Basically they cheated their way to the title. Im suprised you lads arent going ballistic at this

OneRedArmy

06/02/2007, 3:32 PM

there's no question of shelbourne forfeiting the title. they won that if not fair then square. there's no reason to disturb last season's league table in any way whatever.If Shels were found to have breached 2006 licensing there is plenty of reason to take it off them. Add in the fact Ollie had the temerity to take the moral high ground and accuse others of trying to win the League unfairly when he was making a mockery of football administration in the background.

Last seasons league felt like there were no winners anyway by the end so why not let the record state that?

Dodge

06/02/2007, 3:43 PM

there's no question of shelbourne forfeiting the title. they won that if not fair then square. there's no reason to disturb last season's league table in any way whatever.

If they falsely obtained a 2006 license they should be stripped of title.

OneRedArmy

06/02/2007, 3:45 PM

Basically they cheated their way to the title. Im suprised you lads arent going ballistic at thisIts too late at this stage unfortunately.

The dogs on the street knew exactly what state Shels were in and what Ollie was up to going back nearly a year, much of it posted on here by myself and others. If he wasn't (allegedly) so well connected in Merrion Square, they could well have had a points deduction slapped on them for each winding up order and we would have picked up the trophy.

There is a clear precendent hear with Rovers treatment and it will be interesting to see what the result is.

I'm still extremely puzzled at why the PFAI gave Shels such an easy ride in comparison with Rovers, Dundalk, Finn Harps and other.

The whole thing stinks tbh.

refjohn

06/02/2007, 3:47 PM

If they falsely obtained a 2006 license they should be stripped of title.

Here's a thought - if they falsely obtained a license should all their games become null and void - wonder what that would do to the league table. Maybe Drogs could have won the league - maybe Waterford wouldn't have been in the playoff game - what would that then have done to the decision on what teams are in he premier. Probably not much but I'm sure someone will answer.

Dodge

06/02/2007, 3:56 PM

Here's a thought - if they falsely obtained a license should all their games become null and void - wonder what that would do to the league table. Maybe Drogs could have won the league - maybe Waterford wouldn't have been in the playoff game - what would that then have done to the decision on what teams are in he premier. Probably not much but I'm sure someone will answer.

Well Rovers were allowed play without a license in 2005 (after there's was revoked). They were deducted 8 points, purely because thats all the had earned at that time. A similar punishment for Shels would be fair. If however unlikely

R�iteoir

06/02/2007, 4:12 PM

Here's a thought - if they falsely obtained a license should all their games become null and void - wonder what that would do to the league table. Maybe Drogs could have won the league - maybe Waterford wouldn't have been in the playoff game - what would that then have done to the decision on what teams are in he premier. Probably not much but I'm sure someone will answer.

I'll work out what would have happened with the League table later tonight if Shels record were expunged

Mr A

06/02/2007, 4:39 PM

It just shows what an absolute joke the administration of the league and licensing are when even after the Rovers fiasco there are no cut and dried rules for what happens when teams break licensing requirements and/or get into severe financial problems.

On top of that we've heard nothing (that I'm aware of anyway) about the league's rule book being sorted out. New guys in charge, but it'll be the same old story, if not even worse.