Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

[paul_oshea]

that rhymes just like:
you, me and dupree.

[Student Mullet]

I'm more worried about how this has messed up my betting on the Setanta Cup!True,
Cork were a shoe in for their group. Now I've probably thrown a tenner away on them.

[Magicme]

Now you drop the bombshell Magicme....!?!! :eek:

I'm afraid it's all over now between you, me and the donkey... :(

eh?? are u female Steve? if u are just leave the donkey then.......

[dcfcsteve]

eh?? are u female Steve? if u are just leave the donkey then.......

I can be whatever you want me to be, Magicme.....

[paul_oshea]

I can be whatever you want me to be, .....

Not to interupt the cyber sex, ahem but that sounds just like a txt message I received from a certain forum member :p ;)

[steno]

Well any club who refuse to show EL matches in their club bar (kildare county) as there was a premiership game on, no wonder people would be glad to see the back of you, asked could i watch the cup semi last season (cork V derry) and was told where to go, you can hardly claim to support the league,


Whoa there horsey!, In what way can I or the club not claim to support the league?.

I have gone to as many eircom league games (County and otherwise) as i possibly could have since I took up an interest maybe not as many as yourself or the majority of posters here but I think i am perfectly entitled to claim that i support the league in general and to be brutally honest I don't give a flying F**k what you think about that!:mad:
I really don't see how this can prove that I do not support the league.

As for the fact that you weren't granted your request to view the Semi final, I don't know what the excuse was (if any) but i would have been equally as dissappointed if i was told to F**k off and I am sorry to hear that this was the case.

The bar is run by Newbridge Town and not Kildare County and they also own the grounds while I myself do not see this as a acceptable excuse I have to say I am dissappointed to hear this.

To say that Kildare County has no interest in the developement of the Eircom League just because this happened though is ridiculous and well...... stupid IMO.

If that was the case then why an earth would we still be competing in the league?.

[Magicme]

I can be whatever you want me to be, Magicme.....

Johnny Lester???

[dcfcsteve]

If I was Ossie Kilkenny, I'd view this as an opportunity to sceew Shels and get Tolka on the cheap.

If he dangles a few million their way for the lease, they'd have no choice but to say yes. He already has first call on the ground, and they're unlikely to find anyone else willing to throw money at them in their current state. Hey presto - Tolka on the cheap. I have no idea if he is genuinely supportive of Irish football or not. From a puely hypothetical viewpoint - perhaps the biggest thing that would stop him from doing something like that would be a moral dilemma presented by his Sports Council involvement...?

Coincidentally - there's a cheeky litle stealth tactic sometimes used by developers/businessmen in English non-league football who want to get their hands on valuable football grounds (particularly in London).

It begins by getting-in with a club and donating them a few quid to help them out. Then you sell them a bit of a dream regarding their potential, and offer to lend them some short-term funding to help it happen. They then improve as a team and a stadium etc, their ambitions increase and they start to get all starry-eyed.

When the time comes for your short-term loans to be repaid, you just act all cool about them and tell them that you don't really want the money back : "Sure, just give it to me in shares instead". And so you continue fueling their ambition, providing loans and getting shares in the club in return. Over time, and without them really suspecting anything, you build-up a very strong share-holding in the club and whoom - launch your takeover. You succeed, develop plans to redevlop the existing ground and move the club elsewhere, and then slowly start to run the club into the ground. The club's waning fortunes drives their few fans away (it is non-league, after all) and demotivates the other Board members and volunteers, who you've been sidelining since you took control anyway. After a couple of years you have planning permission to redevelop the existing ground, and as the club is on the slide you have an excuse to not offer an alternative home for them. Another club bites the dust......

[dcfcsteve]

Johnny Lester???

A Johnny Tester......?!? :eek:

[Magicme]

A Johnny Tester......?!? :eek:

ha ha....behave!

[dcfcsteve]

ha ha....behave!

You're pure filth, Magicme.

I'm a good Catholic boy......

[Magicme]

You're pure filth, Magicme.

I'm a good Catholic boy......

Aye and I am the Sweedish model they were talkin bout earlier! ;)

[Paddyfield]

You can watch it on...
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/

Miriam knows her football. Who does she support?

[BohsPartisan]

You can watch it on...
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/

Miriam knows her football. Who does she support?

Dublin City

[Billy Lord]

Dear Mr Lord,

Your exorbitant fine will be in the post as soon as Franner gets that translated for us.

Yours,
your ever competent friends in the FAI


KOH

Piacere! Accolgo favorevolmente il vostro contributo. Grazie.

[pete]

Here come the sun king
Here come the sun king

Everybody's laughing
Everybody's happy

Here come the sun king

Cuando para mucho mi amore de UEFA expenses form
Mundo paparazzi mi amore FIFA freebies anyone?
Cuesto abrigado tanta mucho Machiavellian goings-on

Take it easy now. Don't need those FAI types threatening foot.ie

[Sheridan]

Gareth, you made two errors in instigating this thread. One was in confusing mob consensus among internet users (who'll often parrot the prevailing opinion among more vocal members because they can't be bothered to think for themselves) with popular sentiment in the real world, the other was in starting the thread at all. By doing so, you're just inviting contributions of the grandstanding, posturing variety witnessed in this thread to date, mostly authored by hardcore wannabes desperately attempting to catch the eye of their "superiors" (and it at least one instance, a pathetic wannabe trying to impress fans of another club.)

I'm not especially well-disposed towards Shels, but nor am I shortsighted enough to suppose that they were the first club to buy titles with money they didn't have, to ride roughshod over other clubs on their journey to the top, or to behave with insufferable arrogance once they got there. One need cast one's mind back barely twenty years for the canonical example.

Indeed, seductive though the myth of a self-sustaining football club spreadsheeting its way to success undoubtedly is, the fact remains that, when an Irish club eventually makes it to the promised land, it will be an Ollie-like figure who leads them there. Ollie's most grievous errors were tactical rather than strategic. He gambled all-in from the first deal to the last and threw too much good money after bad, largely because of the absence of a credible dissenting voice. But he wasn't the first to do that, and God knows he won't be the last. I'm certainly not going to cast any stones his way, and I hope Shels recover from his depredations.

[BohsPartisan]

I'm certainly not going to cast any stones his way,
Get out of the way then...

[pól-dcfc]

Gareth, you made two errors in instigating this thread. One was in confusing mob consensus among internet users (who'll often parrot the prevailing opinion among more vocal members because they can't be bothered to think for themselves) with popular sentiment in the real world, the other was in starting the thread at all.

Don't be such a tit. I reckon everyone on foot and eL internet in general would like Shels to survive, but just ****ing hate Ollie. Shelbourne have, in general, been good for the league, Ollie has been a joke.

[dahamsta]

Take it easy now. Don't need those FAI types threatening foot.ieAgain.

[mypost]

One lad is trying to organise a night to get ideas, some lads cant go because they are going to watch the Dubs. Another Cant go because he is going out with his girlfriend :rolleyes:

Plenty of time to go out with pinky next week, and many other weeks, after Shels have gone. Pinky should understand, that footie always comes first.

No wonder why Shels are sunk.

[dcfcsteve]

Gareth, you made two errors in instigating this thread. One was in confusing mob consensus among internet users (who'll often parrot the prevailing opinion among more vocal members because they can't be bothered to think for themselves) with popular sentiment in the real world, the other was in starting the thread at all. By doing so, you're just inviting contributions of the grandstanding, posturing variety witnessed in this thread to date, mostly authored by hardcore wannabes desperately attempting to catch the eye of their "superiors" (and it at least one instance, a pathetic wannabe trying to impress fans of another club.)

I'm not especially well-disposed towards Shels, but nor am I shortsighted enough to suppose that they were the first club to buy titles with money they didn't have, to ride roughshod over other clubs on their journey to the top, or to behave with insufferable arrogance once they got there. One need cast one's mind back barely twenty years for the canonical example.

Indeed, seductive though the myth of a self-sustaining football club spreadsheeting its way to success undoubtedly is, the fact remains that, when an Irish club eventually makes it to the promised land, it will be an Ollie-like figure who leads them there. Ollie's most grievous errors were tactical rather than strategic. He gambled all-in from the first deal to the last and threw too much good money after bad, largely because of the absence of a credible dissenting voice. But he wasn't the first to do that, and God knows he won't be the last. I'm certainly not going to cast any stones his way, and I hope Shels recover from his depredations.

I cut and pasted all of this into Babelfish, and it still didn't make any sense.

Has anyone got the URL for that Jive translator......? :confused:

[khoop]

the fact remains that, when an Irish club eventually makes it to the promised land, it will be an Ollie-like figure who leads them there

Wrong. The last Ollie-like figure gave you an utterly useless club for a few years, before admitting that it was doomed to failure. I hope you enjoyed this pointless exercise.

Success will come to clubs with the right combination of patience, diligence and cop-on. Maybe Derry or Cork. Possibly eventually Rovers.

Ollie-like figures have no place in Irish football. It's not roulette for God's sake - it's football.

[BohsPartisan]

Maybe Derry or Cork. Possibly eventually Rovers.



Deliberate ommission of the obvious??? :p

[khoop]

Deliberate ommission of the obvious???

Well if you want to sell your ground to buy success - fire ahead. Shels have shown how it's done.

[BohsPartisan]

Well if you want to sell your ground to buy success - fire ahead. Shels have shown how it's done.

Not the same thing Khoop and you know it.

J€ALOU$?

[holidaysong]

True,
Cork were a shoe in for their group. Now I've probably thrown a tenner away on them.

Yeah it's €20 in my case. Damn St. Pat's! :mad:

[Jerry The Saint]

I think it's entirely appropriate that an impassioned plea from a Shels fan to show a bit of sympathy has descended into a sordid display of Interweb filth! :eek:

My view is that non-Shels fans (apart from Pats and to a lesser extent Bohs) seem to be slightly more upset about the demise of Shelbourne than that of Home Farm and Dublin City. The only club that people would possibly be happier to see leave the league (if they were forced to choose) might be UCD (although the IAG process has ironically generated a lot of goodwill for the way the club is run). Monaghan have had their critics and Kildare doesn't seem to have caught on too well but I would say they both deserve a place in the league. Should we do a poll? :)

[Poor Student]

The only club that people would possibly be happier to see leave the league (if they were forced to choose) might be UCD

Jaysus, Jerry, don't get the UCD fans started.;)

[Mental Man]

Just had Paul Lennon (The Star) on Terrace talk on local radio here within the past hour and from what he has heard he is sure that Shels will be playing 1st division football next year, he thinks that FAI is gonna sanction shels heavily, he personally cannot see them in the premiere division this year !!!!

[steno]

My view is that non-Shels fans (apart from Pats and to a lesser extent Bohs) seem to be slightly more upset about the demise of Shelbourne than that of Home Farm and Dublin City. The only club that people would possibly be happier to see leave the league (if they were forced to choose) might be UCD (although the IAG process has ironically generated a lot of goodwill for the way the club is run). Monaghan have had their critics and Kildare doesn't seem to have caught on too well but I would say they both deserve a place in the league. Should we do a poll? :)

Well we have only been in existence four/five years but the whole concept hasn't caught on as well as many County fans would have hoped.:( Bit of success and you never know.:)
Thanks for the compliment though. Every league has it small clubs this should be no different.

[Gareth]

My Shels commitment questioned cos I didn't go to a p1ss up? Hahahaha what are ya like!

[mypost]

My Shels commitment questioned cos I didn't go to a p1ss up? Hahahaha what are ya like!

Yes. We'll be the ones laughing soon, when you don't have a club to support.

[Gareth]

Yes. We'll be the ones laughing soon, when you don't have a club to support.

Oh how we will all laugh. It will be great wont it. Deadly. :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

Excellent piece by Emmet Malone in the Times today outlines the extent of the problems at Shels:


Going Under?

National League champions Shelbourne have been shipping water for some time and are in danger of sinking as chief executive Ollie Byrne battles illness.

SOCCER: Emmet Malone examines how Ireland's most successful club in recent times have suddenly come to be on the brink of extinction

The old Bill Shankly line about football not being a matter of life and death, "it's more important than that", rarely rang more hollow than it did this week as Shelbourne's owner and chief executive, Ollie Byrne, lay battling serious illness and his club struggled for survival.

The club's future remains in the balance with interim chairman Finbarr Flood putting their chances at 50-50, but no one when asked to consider their fate yesterday could do so without acknowledging the sad context in which the situation has unfolded.

The full extent to which the Byrne and Shelbourne had become intertwined has been starkly underlined this week as others sought to untangle the club's affairs in Byrne's absence. Speaking on RTÉ radio on Wednesday evening, Flood was asked about some aspect of the deal to sell Tolka Park to Coneforth Trading, the company owned by Ossie Kilkenny, Ivano Cafolla and Jerry O'Reilly, who agreed back in 2003 a price to purchase the ground whenever Shelbourne move on.

"I don't want to go into it, mainly because I don't understand all of it, I'd need Ollie here to explain it fully," replied the former Guinness chief executive and chairman of the Labour Court.

Byrne may not be universally liked within the game or particularly admired outside of it. Indeed, after years of what might kindly be described as a robust approach to championing Shelbourne's cause, he is now carrying the can for the crisis in which the club to whom he has devoted so much of his adult life to find themselves

Still there is a good deal of residual affection out there for the 65-year-old Dubliner. Many who know him well believe he is being harshly judged for what is happening at Tolka Park, and nobody who has had any dealings with him would make the mistake of taking him for a fool.

"What Ollie has been is ambitious, and it's very hard to knock that in a person, at least until afterwards when they haven't pulled off what they were hoping to," says former Shelbourne chairman Gary Brown.

"The fact is that he wanted to do something that nobody else here was even talking about until he tried it, and it seemed like the club was almost there a couple of times. The problem is that football is one of those sports where people often allow their hearts to rule their heads and Ollie has been as guilty of that as anybody."

On the pitch Shelbourne have been hugely successful in Irish terms over the past decade. The problem is that the club have managed to demonstrate just how little money there is in being successful here. He felt the sale of the ground for development would allow the club to establish a far more effective business model, just as Bohemians now intend to do with the money obtained for Dalymount Park.

Crucially in Shelbourne's case, however, the offer of the site in Finglas to which the club intended to move was withdrawn by the local authority after objections from local residents turned it into an election issue and previously supportive public representatives had a change of heart. Byrne had made the critical error of not indexing the purchase price, and so, while he and his colleagues searched for a new home against a background of soaring property prices, the capital sum that would be realised started to decline significantly in real terms.

At the same time, he was gambling hugely on success in Europe with qualification for the group stages of the Champions League viewed as pretty much the only way really serious revenues could be generated by an Irish club. Expenditure dramatically outstripped income - by 100 per cent, or roughly €1.3 million in recent years - and Byrne set out to make up the shortfall by drawing down funds from Coneforth against the purchase price.

This was roughly €25 million gross or, after a number of significant issues such as capital gains tax and the repayment of capital grants was dealt with, somewhere in region of €17 million.

The difficulty was that, as his relationship with Kilkenny declined, so the advances became harder to obtain, and after that he started to get the money pretty much from wherever he could.

"Ollie had a business model all right," insists former director and current management committee member Colm Murphy. "It may not have been the sort of one they teach in business schools, but there was a logic to what he did which was to invest in the club to achieve something specific and to do it by depreciating the value of the ground.

"The problem was that the outgoings exceeded the income by more than expected, and he then found it impossible to get more money from the person who was buying the ground, so he then borrowed from outside sources to make up the shortfall and those sources were us - everybody he knew.

"But," he asks, "who is standing at the door of Tolka Park threatening to send Shelbourne under? Nobody, because Ollie never borrowed money from anybody without telling them they would get their money back when the ground was sold, and while people are obviously concerned now, really they never stopped believing that."

Not everybody within the game accepts that, and it is often difficult to separate fact from fiction when dealing with the Shelbourne story. What is beyond doubt, however, is that when his back was to the wall Byrne was often unorthodox in his approach, with incidents such as the club's players being paid at one stage in Northern sterling prompting inevitable speculation among rivals.

The players happily lodged the cash and everybody associated with the club dismisses any suggestion of wrongdoing, but those stories, combined with Byrne's often aggressive style and the amount the club spent on achieving success, have combined to limit the amount of sympathy available from some quarters.

The wage bill last year was some €38,000 per week, but Shelbourne consistently had trouble meeting it, prompting anger on the part of those who felt the club were buying titles with money they didn't have.

[Mr A]

More of same:


Around €6.5 million has now been advanced by Kilkenny and his associates, while a further €4 million to €5 million is owed to various creditors, including a significant number of individuals who advanced low, six-figure sums over a period of years often on the basis that Byrne would provide access to tickets for international and big Premiership games while the money was outstanding. In recent months, though, even these sources largely dried up.

Those involved in the playing side of the operation lamented the club's inability to generate larger gates or significant sponsorships, but as Alan Mathews, a former assistant manager at Tolka now in charge of Longford observes, "Ollie ran that club from top to bottom. He achieved standards that other clubs only aspired to, but the infrastructure required to sustain the whole thing was never put in place. People who know Ollie would know that that's his modus operandi. I think Ollie would admit it himself."

Like many who have been involved with the club in recent years Tony McCarthy, a former player and now the first team's physiotherapist, feels that Byrne's main offence is to have reached for the stars and to have come up short. "I think everybody agrees that he tried to raise the bar and he should get credit for that," he says.

That failure, however, has left problems that were described in an understated way by Flood this week as "quite complex".

Still, there is hope around the place, combined with an acceptance that the level of ambition displayed in the immediate future will have to be drastically scaled back.

"The most important thing for supporters now is that we have a club, whether they are challenging for honours, playing outside our ground or whatever else. People are desperate to see them survive," says Niall Fitzmaurice, a leading member of the Shelbourne Supporters Development Group.

The most immediate challenge, though, comes over the next couple of days, as Murphy readily admits. "Obviously if we can't persuade the licensing people that we can pay off the Revenue and the players within a matter of days, and that we can trade through the coming season, then there's no basis for them to give us our licence. But if we can do that then there's no reason for them to change the decision they made last year. But if we do survive," he says, "then the process of rebuilding our credibility while working off a different business plan will begin."

On the Shelbourne website last night the club history page was offline for "updating". After 112 years, we can only hope the time hasn't arrived quite yet to write the final chapter.

No permit, no play: Club's licence could be revoked

Members of the committee that oversees the FAI's club licensing system will meet tomorrow to consider whether, as a result of the financial crisis that has enveloped the club, Shelbourne should be stripped of the licence they were granted late last year.

The meeting has been convened to consider a response by the club to queries put to them in a letter from the committee over the last few days. The questions relate to information supplied by Shelbourne in their licence application last October.

There is a growing sense that the FAI would like a swift end put to an embarrassing period for the game here, and that Shelbourne will face stiff sanctions or even expulsion from the reconstituted League of Ireland, the board of which met for the first time yesterday.

Members of the club's management committee insist, however, that the information supplied last autumn was correct and that the issues raised now by the committee can be properly addressed.

"We have made no secret of the losses being incurred," says Colm Murphy. "The management accounts sent to the licensing people showed a seven-figure loss for the year and debts of 4 million (this figure excludes the 6.5 million advanced by Ossie Kilkenny and his business partners against the price to be paid at a future date for Tolka Park) were indicated."

Finbarr Flood, meanwhile, observed: "We've been asked a number of questions which we will answer. After that it's a matter for the members of the committee to consider.

"All we can do," he added, "is hope that they make a decision quickly and that they allow us to get on with the business of addressing the problems that exist within the club. We're keenly aware that we need to put in place a financial package and work on that is still ongoing."

Ollie Byrne, meanwhile, issued a statement from Beaumont hospital yesterday thanking the many people who had sent him good wishes and stating he believed the club was in good hands. The Dubliner underwent surgery earlier this week and will have further treatment in the weeks ahead.

[Dodge]

KNew you'd come round to our thinking Gareth

[forza]

Oh how we will all laugh. It will be great wont it. Deadly. :rolleyes:

POTM :cool:

[Raheny Red]

Just produce your 2006 Shels season ticket when purchasing a season ticket for Bohs.



Any Gypo wanna buy Shels 2006 season ticket? ;)




:p

[Raheny Red]

Lads, i missed it ... can you give a run down of what happened. Who was on the panel. Who spoke from the crowd? What topics were covered?

Will it be online ??

I have it saved, I'll see what I can do

EDIT: just seen it's online!

[A face]

I have it saved, I'll see what I can do

EDIT: just seen it's online!

Cheers anyway fella !!

[kdjaC]

Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week :confused:

I have them at all of the above :D


kdjac

[Mr_T]

ollie could bring the fags and maxi the lighter

POST OF THE MONTH!!!! SURELY!! :D :D

[pete]

Excellent article again by Emmet Malone. Very informative.

Shels seem to be saying they submitted accounts to the Licencing Board that showed 4-5 million debt & them losing a further 1m last season & that was accepted??? :eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

[Poor Student]

Business Post says they're ready to take some of Kilkenny's silver. He'll give them money to write off 'historic' debt apparently. I don't know if that means tranferring more money from the sale of Tolka. It says he'll give €20k a week to Shels. At this stage I don't even think they could find available players to spend that on.

[bohs til i die]

Business Post says they're ready to take some of Kilkenny's silver. He'll give them money to write off 'historic' debt apparently. I don't know if that means tranferring more money from the sale of Tolka. It says he'll give €20k a week to Shels. At this stage I don't even think they could find available players to spend that on.

Kilkenny will stump up €1,000,000 this year to ensure wages paid etc and it'll be reduced from final payment for Tolka. At this rate Shels will move out of Tolka with nothing in the bank.

[Raheny Red]

Cheers anyway fella !!

I could upload if people want me to as I don't think they have the discussion after the report online :confused: :ball:

[A face]

I could upload if people want me to as I don't think they have the discussion after the report online :confused: :ball:

Its there alright ... here is the link (javascript:showPlayer('/news/2007/0201/primetime_av.html?2215297,null,230'))

[LukeO]

Fran Gavin and Dan McDonnell are on snoozetalk at the moment.

[TheOwl]

Kilkenny will stump up €1,000,000 this year to ensure wages paid etc and it'll be reduced from final payment for Tolka. At this rate Shels will move out of Tolka with nothing in the bank.

To be honest I think most of us Shels fans would take that at the moment. No money, no ground, but no debt, sounds a lot better than no club at all....