View Full Version : Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread
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If a club is denied a Uefa licence can you award the CL place to 2nd place in the league i.e. can a team from country with 1 CL qualifier who has not won the league particpate in the CL? Is there a precedent anywhere?
Ferenvaros kicked out of Europe this season as they owed one player a few quid. UEFA kicked em out league were asked to send another team. CL is sort invitational as Pool found out its up to the FAI to submit a team regardless of leagues and cups.
kdjac
Pats board would more than welcome rovers (and associated revenues) into Richmond. Fans wouldn't care either.
Not for 4k we wouldn't :p
brendy_éire
31/01/2007, 7:41 PM
Setanta Cup Regulations 2007:
Entry Process
The Tournament shall be on invitational basis only and invitations shall be issued by
both Associations to four clubs under their jurisdiction taking into account the following sporting criteria listed in order of priority:
Clubs under the jurisdiction of the FAI:
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship winners.
· 2006 season FAI Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the FAI Cup, then the runner-up club in the FAI Cup shall be invited.
· 2006 season League Cup winners.
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship runners-up.
In the event of a club(s) qualifying to receive an invitation under two or more of the above listed criteria or a club(s) failing to meet other specified criteria in the regulations, then the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table.
We qualified for the Cup under the 2nd and 4th criteria, so therefore "the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table", so it should be Sligo, not Pats who get into the Cup.
For Pats to get it, that would have to mean that Shels were being stripped of their League title, which they are not being. If that was the case, then we would have to switch groups. But Sligo should be in, IMO.
Basically, if Pats are in, they should take Cork's place, Cork should take Drogheda's, Drogheda should take ours and we should take Shels'.
I think that makes sense. :confused:
I think a minor points deduction is adequate enough punishment for Shels, and if they can't reach European criteria by UEFA's deadline than take their CL spot too, but they should be given until said deadline to get their house in order
If the obtaied last years license ith fraudelent accounts, they should be stripped off the league. Anything else is ridiculous.
And I have every right to want them to die.:p
Peadar
31/01/2007, 7:48 PM
If Shels results were expunged:
That will never happen because, Shels completed their full schedule of fixtures. They were even willing to play an extra fixture against Bohs. :D
SligoBrewer
31/01/2007, 7:51 PM
Setanta Cup Regulations 2007:
Entry Process
The Tournament shall be on invitational basis only and invitations shall be issued by
both Associations to four clubs under their jurisdiction taking into account the following sporting criteria listed in order of priority:
Clubs under the jurisdiction of the FAI:
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship winners.
· 2006 season FAI Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the FAI Cup, then the runner-up club in the FAI Cup shall be invited.
· 2006 season League Cup winners.
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship runners-up.
In the event of a club(s) qualifying to receive an invitation under two or more of the above listed criteria or a club(s) failing to meet other specified criteria in the regulations, then the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table.
We qualified for the Cup under the 2nd and 4th criteria, so therefore "the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table", so it should be Sligo, not Pats who get into the Cup.
For Pats to get it, that would have to mean that Shels were being stripped of their League title, which they are not being. If that was the case, then we would have to switch groups. But Sligo should be in, IMO.
Basically, if Pats are in, they should take Cork's place, Cork should take Drogheda's, Drogheda should take ours and we should take Shels'.
I think that makes sense. :confused:
we shud be in cause shels are still title holders
Not for 4k we wouldn't :p
How much is Tolka :confused: As your fans would be the only guranteed income for Shels.
kdjac
TheSaint2002
31/01/2007, 8:22 PM
one thing thing people are forgetting is this is revenge time for all at richmond park (remember that little ruckus in 02) so sligo can shag off we are getting shels setanta place as first payment and a place in Europe as the final pay back.Oh this is sweet.
Gareth
31/01/2007, 8:41 PM
I'm pretty disappointed this evening. Not because Shels are going out of business or could be, but because the league I have devoted so much of my time to seems to be partly rejoicing about Shels demise. I am not blind to the fact people anger about Shels buying the league, and Shels were spending above their abilities to fund and that the trouble is self made. That is grounds to be a bit ****ed off about Shels behaviour. However a club of such long history and its support and presence to the league over the years should be remembered for their history and not their immediately present.
Over the years I have supported any club in trouble, or just even any club selling me a ticket for this that or the other. I see the league as something that needs all the support and backing as much as possible. I know most people I have sat beside over the years feel the same. Ollie Byrne is a hate figure to many EL fans, but Shels is also the cornerstone in plenty of people's lives. I grew up with Shels, and put up with some stick because of it (I went to school beside Dalyer :)), and if it wasn't a Bohs fan given a hard time, it was a English team supporter laughing as you tell them your off to Monaghan to watch a game in the bitter cold only for it to turn out to be some direr 0-0 :). Shels is a huge deal to me, and many fans. Foot.ie posters complain we have let this happen, we should now stand up and be counted, help the club, but it is a very complex and difficult thing for a small bunch of laypeople to do. I help my club everyday in the manner I know how. So do many people, but well it is just very sad to think so many fans are happy to see a club die. I personally can say I have put in plenty of hours a day into Shels and it annoys me to read posters say fans didn't help Shels or try and do their bit. I can name dozens and dozens of people who give up huge volumes of time to help. Are people totally lost on the idea that someone owned 99% of the club and was not one to listen to some bloke off the street when it came to running his business? I don't really know what action could have been taken? Boycotts etc, well we have small enough crowds already. And people voiced their issues many times. Awh I don't know, its like football fans think once fans decide a club is run badly, all they need to do is wave the magic wand and the owners will sell and move on.
Bah!! Rant over.
bohs til i die
31/01/2007, 8:55 PM
I'm pretty disappointed this evening. Not because Shels are going out of business or could be, but because the league I have devoted so much of my time to seems to be partly rejoicing about Shels demise. I am not blind to the fact people anger about Shels buying the league, and Shels were spending above their abilities to fund and that the trouble is self made. That is grounds to be a bit ****ed off about Shels behaviour. However a club of such long history and its support and presence to the league over the years should be remembered for their history and not their immediately present.
Over the years I have supported any club in trouble, or just even any club selling me a ticket for this that or the other. I see the league as something that needs all the support and backing as much as possible. I know most people I have sat beside over the years feel the same. Ollie Byrne is a hate figure to many EL fans, but Shels is also the cornerstone in plenty of people's lives. I grew up with Shels, and put up with some stick because of it (I went to school beside Dalyer :)), and if it wasn't a Bohs fan given a hard time, it was a English team supporter laughing as you tell them your off to Monaghan to watch a game in the bitter cold only for it to turn out to be some direr 0-0 :). Shels is a huge deal to me, and many fans. Foot.ie posters complain we have let this happen, we should now stand up and be counted, help the club, but it is a very complex and difficult thing for a small bunch of laypeople to do. I help my club everyday in the manner I know how. So do many people, but well it is just very sad to think so many fans are happy to see a club die. I personally can say I have put in plenty of hours a day into Shels and it annoys me to read posters say fans didn't help Shels or try and do their bit. I can name dozens and dozens of people who give up huge volumes of time to help. Are people totally lost on the idea that someone owned 99% of the club and was not one to listen to some bloke off the street when it came to running his business? I don't really know what action could have been taken? Boycotts etc, well we have small enough crowds already. And people voiced their issues many times. Awh I don't know, its like football fans think once fans decide a club is run badly, all they need to do is wave the magic wand and the owners will sell and move on.
Bah!! Rant over.
Well what did you expect?
Read the Dalymount Groundshare thread from 12 months ago on Shels MB and you know why Bohs fans hope this is the end for Shels.
fanatic
31/01/2007, 8:57 PM
the end of Shelbourne, would not benefit anyone supporting Eircom League football.
As much resentment some people may have the league doesnt need to loose another club with history.
I am not impressed with some of shels previous actions over the years but I would honestly have to say I would be very sorry to see them fold if it was to happen.
You have a great set of fans and it is those (ye all) that will be the real losers here not to mention the league in general.
we shud be in cause shels are still title holders
This debate is beginning to bore me now (besides, it's sorted, we've been invited) but here's how I see it. The Eircom League Champions get an invite, Shels turned it down, so Derry are upgraded to their spot. Therefore, as Derry are, in effect, taking the champions spot, Pats then qualify as cup runners up.
It's arguable, I'll grant you, but it's as valid an argument as the one Sligo fans are putting up.
Oh, and BTW, I forget who it was who mentioned last seasons results, but for the record : Sligo V Pats - 1-1 in the Showgrounds, 3-1 Pats in Richmond, 3-2 Sligo in the Showgrounds. Which proves, what exactly ? (6-5 on aggregate to Pats anyhow, if you're counting.)
Poor Student
31/01/2007, 8:59 PM
I'm pretty disappointed this evening. Not because Shels are going out of business or could be, but because the league I have devoted so much of my time to seems to be partly rejoicing about Shels demise.
UCD fans are quite familiar with this phenomenon. Many fans on here and in other circles wish for our demise in spite of the fact that like at Shelbourne many people volunteer and put hard work into the same interest that they do. Many people also danced on the grave of Dublin City. I can understand what you're feeling but football is a very cut throat and hypocritical arena. Another problem is that while Shelbourne fans like yourself remained pretty gracious in victory and refrained from praising Ollie to the hilt and insisting all was ok, there have been others on here rubbing it in people's faces and acting as if your success and dominance would be perpetual. That among other things has stuck in a lot of peoples' craw. I'm in favour of Shelbourne receiving punishment for overspending but I don't wish the death of your club and the loss of loyal LOI fans and a chunk of Irish football tradition.
Buller
31/01/2007, 9:01 PM
Regardless of any bitterness towards ollie or shels as a club, their demise would be a great dissappointed and have a negitive effect on our league. I hope they get out of this one way or another...
Buller
31/01/2007, 9:04 PM
I think shels were charging 2k a match for tolka last year
UCD fans are quite familiar with this phenomenon. Many fans on here and in other circles wish for our demise in spite of the fact that like at Shelbourne many people volunteer and put hard work into the same interest that they do. Many people also danced on the grave of Dublin City. I can understand what you're feeling but football is a very cut throat and hypocritical arena. Another problem is that while Shelbourne fans like yourself remained pretty gracious in victory and refrained from praising Ollie to the hilt and insisting all was ok, there have been others on here rubbing it in people's faces and acting as if your success and dominance would be perpetual. That among other things has stuck in a lot of peoples' craw. I'm in favour of Shelbourne receiving punishment for overspending but I don't wish the death of your club and the loss of loyal LOI fans and a chunk of Irish football tradition.
Your not alone there poor student I have lost count on how many times someone has said that they have heard that Kildare County would be the next club to go.
The loss of any club is a sad day for irish soccer simple as that. Shels do deserve to suffer the consequences of their overspending but I would never like to see them go to the wall. Hopefully the Eircom league clubs (and shels) will learn from this.
Poor Student
31/01/2007, 9:08 PM
Your not alone there poor student I have lost count on how many times someone has said that they have heard that Kildare County would be the next club to go.
Mons and Kilkenny fans would know what it's like too.
Quiet simple... say someone lends you €100k on the back of a contract/promise that sometime in the future you will repay them from the proceeds of the sale of your house.... until you sell your house and repay them the fact is you have an outstanding debt of €100k (plus interest).
But, to continue the analogy, if you've already signed your house over, isn't the 100K a downpayment, not a loan ? Depends on the exact terms of the agreement between Ollie and Ossie I suppose.
chippie0001
31/01/2007, 9:19 PM
Have to say I have no great desire to see Shels go out of business. Shels are around since 1895 in various forms and yes we all hate Ollie and what he has done but he not only Shels. Various lessons have to be learnt but I would like to think that Shels will exist as their name is a big and historic name in nIrish football. A lot of the hatred I think is brought on by the Shels fans actions/inactions, see no evil hear no evil, up to a few weeks ago, but I do hope they survive and we all should I think.
Paddyfield
31/01/2007, 9:27 PM
It seems as if every Club in this country had had a major crisis of some sort that has dragged their name from the sports pages to the news pages. Galway United nearly folded a few years and were rescued thanks by a few devoted individuals and also by the Galway United Supporters Trust [ www.gust.ie ]. Others have survived (Harps, Cork, Dundalk, Rovers) and others have died (Limerick, Dublin City, St. Francis, St James's Gate).
Shels are not gone yet.
Gareth
31/01/2007, 9:28 PM
I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?
I wish a bucket collection would help shels.
drummerboy
31/01/2007, 9:32 PM
St James Gate is still a thriving club, although its not in the EL. Francis are on the go again also.
BohsPartisan
31/01/2007, 9:34 PM
I'm pretty disappointed this evening. Not because Shels are going out of business or could be, but because the league I have devoted so much of my time to seems to be partly rejoicing about Shels demise.
As BTID said, take a look at some of the stuff on your forum from when we were in trouble and you'll see why we're gloating.
Besides that, Ollie used the FAI to try to bully Shels into dalymount for les tan fifth of its market value.
Why should we lose any sleep for a club and a set of fans that quite hapilly would have seen us go to the wall. Read your own forum. Thats exactly what your fans were saying back then!
Yep - all the evidence is on the Shels forum. No need to look any further.
Frankly - it's irrelevant what other fans think. It won't make a blind bit of difference.
If Shels survive - fair enough - congratulations. And welcome to mediocrity for at least 5 years.
But if the FAI tear up the brand new rule book in order to save Shels - which many Shels fans most probably want - then that's the end of any serious hope for soccer in Ireland.
BohsPartisan
31/01/2007, 9:43 PM
Love the way everyone on this forum harps on about Irish football and promoting it and yet they want to get rid of the one club the average football fan in Ireland has paid any attention to in recent times :rolleyes:
Thats a simply shocking arguement. Shels have only been there through underhand tactics. If it wasn't for that it could have been Cork or Derry in that position.
As for Galwayhoop harping on about Shels buying success and how its wrong, aren't you a supporter of the club that took Dundalk's place in the Premier because your club is richer? Isn't that what that all boiled down to?
No its because they had their house in order and met the criteria that all clubs signed up to! :rolleyes:
I always hope conmen, gangsters and cheats get whats coming o them. Shels meet all those criteria.
I'd also like to add they have been the ones who have most consstantly embarrassed the league (apart from some brief competition from Mr. Seerey and Co.) by constantly going to the courts everytime they didn't get their own way.
Paddyfield
31/01/2007, 9:44 PM
I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?
I wish a bucket collection would help shels.
Yip. Such was the success of Galway United fans playing for a ten minutes in every League ground in the Ireland (within a space of 24 hours), that they followed it up with doing similar in every Premiership ground in England the following year.
bohs til i die
31/01/2007, 9:50 PM
Your not alone there poor student I have lost count on how many times someone has said that they have heard that Kildare County would be the next club to go.
The loss of any club is a sad day for irish soccer simple as that. Shels do deserve to suffer the consequences of their overspending but I would never like to see them go to the wall. Hopefully the Eircom league clubs (and shels) will learn from this.
I seem to remember hearing on numerous occasions that the Genesis report promotes the idea of a better geographical spread of clubs. So surely losing a snd Dub club in the space of a year is a good thing?
mcgonigle
31/01/2007, 10:23 PM
Dont worry Gareth what goes around comes around for those who wish for Shels demise, I personnally hope they comethrough this, like I would any EL club. I dont agree with how Shels have done business but them going bust is only punishment on the fans who dont deserve it.
Any of those wishing Shels demise should think of their club in Shels position and what it would be like, lets face it, it could happen any club at any time
Dr.Nightdub
31/01/2007, 10:25 PM
Gareth, in some other thread in the last fortnight, I explained how I separate Shels fans from Shels the club. For the likes of Shels fans such as yourself (a minority), yes, I do feel sympathy on account of what youse have invested over the years, same as any of us.
However, for me, your club exists in a bottomless pit of loathing. You can bang on about history and 1895 and all that, but I only have to go back to 2002 to find plenty of reasons to enjoy watching Shels suffer.
Thanks for the Setanta spot, by the way. ;)
ndrog
31/01/2007, 10:25 PM
Drogheda invited them to play games in utd park a couple of seasons ago .Dont think it was ever likely tbh ,more to do with the license application deadline coming up .
Superhoops
31/01/2007, 10:27 PM
Is it yer man O'Reilly? I have the accounts somewhere; I'll dig them out and have a look.
Is it a guy called Richard Campbell?
Dr.Nightdub
31/01/2007, 10:30 PM
Buller, it was closer to half that. If Tolka does vanish out of the frame, it leaves Rovers to sit back and enjoy a Dutch auction between us and Bohs, couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.
If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.
pineapple stu
31/01/2007, 10:39 PM
It's on the main computer, which is broken unfortunately.
Campbell doesn't ring a bell though.
pineapple stu
31/01/2007, 10:48 PM
The developers must be rubbing their hands at the sight of the Shels meltdown.
I don't agree. The council own the ground; Shels own the lease. If Shels go bust, the council have a ground and would be in no real rush to lose another city-centre-ish amenity. The developers' only hope of getting their money is by getting Shels into a new ground alive.
The Sheliban
31/01/2007, 11:01 PM
Most of the times Ollie went to the courts he was proved right. The League was run so amateurishly they just made it up as they went along, setting stupid precedents that had to be challenged.
Many other clubs rode on Shels shirt-tails whenever we challenged another stupid ruling. That's something I'm rather proud of.
garyderry
31/01/2007, 11:24 PM
Your not alone there poor student I have lost count on how many times someone has said that they have heard that Kildare County would be the next club to go.
The loss of any club is a sad day for irish soccer simple as that. Shels do deserve to suffer the consequences of their overspending but I would never like to see them go to the wall. Hopefully the Eircom league clubs (and shels) will learn from this.
Well any club who refuse to show EL matches in their club bar (kildare county) as there was a premiership game on, no wonder people would be glad to see the back of you, asked could i watch the cup semi last season (cork V derry) and was told where to go, you can hardly claim to support the league,
as much as i hate $hel$ would hate to see them disappear, the league would be a much the worse without them, (or for that matter steady clubs like UCD)
I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?
I wish a bucket collection would help shels.
But it wouldnt be to help $hel$ it would be to help Oillie Byrnes finances as he owns the club, can see too many eircom league fans rushing to throw there money away to save oillie's finances.
It would be a completely different matter if the real $hel$ fans had control of the club.
That said i hope Finbarr Flood pulls it out of the bag and gets you to the end of this season in one piece.
soccerc
31/01/2007, 11:46 PM
I remember well the buckets galway supporters brought to other el grounds and finn harps play a match in all the grounds in 24 hours? Was that right?
I wish a bucket collection would help shels.
Indeed, I spent a late friday night in Baldonnel waiting for SBB ina shui and his mates to arrive.
Nobody stayed around to throw a few bob into the buckets as they were hours behind schedule, feeling sorry I gave them what remained in my wallet as a personal donation only for one pr ick, then a senior figure to compain that it wan't enough.
Dodge
01/02/2007, 12:15 AM
Garth, you didn't happen to notice all the goodwill that clubs like harps, Galway, Derry, Limerick and even Rovers received when they stared extinction in the face. Do you not ask yourself why el fans, almost to man, wished all those clubs well and donated money, bought raffle tickets etc etc
Now read the posts (still a moinority) wishing Shels would die and ask yourself why? If you can't find the difference or don't knwo the answer, there's no hope for Shels fans.
Dodge
01/02/2007, 12:18 AM
Buller, it was closer to half that. If Tolka does vanish out of the frame, it leaves Rovers to sit back and enjoy a Dutch auction between us and Bohs, couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.
If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.
We know, you ****ing hoop
Like most people, I'm no fan of how Shels treated the league and other clubs around them in recent years but I still wouldn't want to see them go to the wall. I wouldn't want to see any club die as I know how I felt 6 or 7 years ago when it was us. We fought tooth and nail to save our club at the time and only cleared up the debts last year.
It looked as if we were in big trouble but we survived and have one of the most modern football stadia on the island beginning construction in the next few months. It was us, the fans, that saved Finn Harps. It was the same at Derry, Rovers, Galway, Dundalk and Cork.
Shels are a big name and I'm sure there are people out there who will help. If the fans care enough to save the club, you will survive. It won't be the Shelbourne you know, you'll have more in common with Monaghan and Kilkenny for a few years but at least you'll still have a club.
Hopefully something will work out for yis Gareth. You are one of the good guys and I do feel a lot of sympathy for the genuine Shels fans. You will get a lot of goading (Shels fans weren't exactly renowned for being good winners) and slagging. But that is football.
I know what you are saying about the eircom league but when it really, really comes down to it - most football fans don't give a flying fúck about any other team or club in the world apart from their own.
Dr.Nightdub
01/02/2007, 12:40 AM
Fans wouldn't care either.
Oh I geddit, the whole rest of the Pats community is allowed not care but if I have no problem, it's U-turn city? :D
I just like the idea of Rovers covering half the cost of Joey Ndo's wages and Shels' former Setanta spot covering half the cost of Gary O'Neill's wages.
Dodge
01/02/2007, 12:41 AM
Oh I geddit, the whole rest of the Pats community is allowed not care but if I have no problem, it's U-turn city?
Exactly...
incident
01/02/2007, 12:51 AM
I don't agree. The council own the ground; Shels own the lease. If Shels go bust, the council have a ground and would be in no real rush to lose another city-centre-ish amenity. The developers' only hope of getting their money is by getting Shels into a new ground alive.
The council still own the actual land regardless of whether Shels stay afloat or not.
The developers are likely to end up controlling the lease on Tolka regardless of whether Shels stay afloat or not (as a result of the deals previously done by Shels).
To be honest, in terms of developing the Tolka Park site, the fate of Shelbourne FC is basically irrelevant at this stage.
mypost
01/02/2007, 5:01 AM
Wouldn't happen anyway, as the residents would go bananas. They kicked us out of Richmond when we were there before. Then when we were back in, they insisted on us playing at a ko time that suited them. There are other grounds available with half the hassle of playing there.
couldn't see them having to pay much more than a grand a game for either Richmond or Dalymount.
If it was down to me, I'd take yisser money no problem.
Considering how much we had to pay Pats and Bohs the last time, why would the price suddenly be dropped by a third this time?
Mental Man
01/02/2007, 7:27 AM
Well i know what its like to nearly go out of business, we faced that horror about a year and a half ago, it got so bad 1 night about 20 of us (yes thats all) hit a few local housing estates to try and sell lotto tickets to pay for wages for that week etc..
No LOI club should go out of business, we need every club in it, but in fairness the way shels traded over the last few years in 1 way i dont pity them , they bullied their way around and in merrion sq.
Its up to the FAI now to sort this mess out and implement their so called great new policies and also the ideas that in which the IAG set out to invite clubs into the premiere should now be closely looked at in shels case, obviously there was serious cooking of the books and lies told to obtain their licence.
No shels should be left survive, maybe a few years down in the 1st division to regroup might be the best thing ever happened to them ,as they say a stark dose of reality works wonders.
Good luck to them and Ollie should now F***off for the sake of the club and its fans.
I definately would not like to see them go to the wall but
they should definately be reprimanded for their actions
be it demotion/points deduction etc.
Its not nice when any team goes out of business as it
reflects badly on the League that we all are trying to promote
BohsPartisan
01/02/2007, 7:51 AM
Any of those wishing Shels demise should think of their club in Shels position and what it would be like, lets face it, it could happen any club at any time
You're missing the point. We were in a position nearly as bad and as a result we did what any normal club would do. We scaled back. Shels solution was borrow more, get into more debt, they have themselves to blame. Pure greed has left them where they are now.
As we said, go to Shelsweb and see what they were saying when it looked like we might go to the wall. You're right that what goes around comes around and its coming around for Shels right now.
I feel sorry for people like Gareth alright but lets face it, theres not many Gareth's down Tolka way. Take a look at the Dalymount groundshare thread at Shelsweb, see what prominant Shels fans such as Cassidy were saying about us then rethink your sympathies.
On the publicity factor, I agree clubs going out of business mean bad publicity for the league but Shels have brought plenty of that over the years anyway with their court cases and what not.
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