Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

[The Man Himself]

up the blues.

to all you begrugers out there" live with it, the blues are back.

[TheBoss]

I think the FAI have finally made a decent decision. There was no way they could be in the PL with only 4 players at the moment and some debts, I think a points penalty aswell should have been imposed, to make it hard for them to get into the PL, to teach them a lesson about getting into this mess.

PS: I think Derry would have done better in Europe anyway of last seasons squads.

[BlueAsItGoes]

Yes I would like to go up... I think the Management committee should take the chance they have been given.....

[Student Mullet]

May I object to the title of the thread? Shels haven't been relegated, they've simply been not invited to participate in a league which they were provisionally invited to participate in, based on a set of criteria agreed in advance by all parties.

There's no faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarce here.

[Réiteoir]

May I object to the title of the thread? Shels haven't been relegated, they've simply been not invited to participate in a league which they were provisionally invited to participate in, based on a set of criteria agreed in advance by all parties.

There's no faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarce here.

Title revised

[Student Mullet]

Title revisedFor the record, I was joking.

[Réiteoir]

And you actually did have a point - it's like saying that Shamrock Rovers and Galway were "promoted" - they weren't - they were invited.

As is here - no relegation - but a demotion, yes.

[wexfordned]

It appears that alot of shels mb posters want the decision appealed. can't see how they can complain:

They submitted their application, committee wasn't happy so they asked for explantions & only then when they felt their explanations didn't add up did they decide to relegate them. Personally I would have included a points penalty as well.

Also the last thing the league needs is to be dragged through the courts again & shels are in no position to go splashing out on court fees

[superblues]

The Blues and Dundalk may well have planned for the first division, but i think either of them would easily hold there own in the premier next season. Along with a few other current first division teams. They have been busy building squads while other prem teams have been falling apart!!

[SwanVsDalton]

Relief...of a sort. I left for work having read the worrying rumours of Shels inexplicitly remaining in the Premier but a semblance of sense. I genuinely hope Shels can get it together now though, like Pineapple Stu, I reckon this could be only the beginning. Sorry First Division but i'm glad whatever drama is yet to play out at Tolka won't be sodomising the already traumatised Premier.

[mypost]

I'm sad to see Waterford get away with resting on their laurels after all. It'll be interesting to see how their planned squad fits into the Premier Division.

It's not Waterford's fault that Shels screwed themselves up.

Shels would be better off taking their medicine, and go about building some form of squad, and coach before the season starts, as they don't have a hope of winning any appeals. I'm sure they'll enjoy the trips to Finn Harps, Cobh, Wexford, and Kilkenny over the next 9 months. It's called "The Hangover". :D

[noby]

I'm sad to see Waterford get away with resting on their laurels after all. Their second deus ex machina. It'll be interesting to see how their planned squad fits into the Premier Division. Surely they can't overbudget and have cash flow problems this season.

Still a keen interest in our affairs, I see. People seem to be mistaking our utter crapness last year with resting on our laurels, because we we're 'guaranteed' a premier spot. We were useless all year, for various reasons. Towards the end of the year a rumour came out that we were tipped off about our future. Do people really believe that last march we decided not to try as we were safe anyway?

I would hate to see the club turn down a premier invite, but it does leave us in an awkward spot. Budgets, sponsorship, ticket prices etc. have all been done with the first division in mind, so there may be a frantic couple of weeks to get things sorted for the new season.

The squad, while is geared for a first division title, is probably stronger and more stable than last year's.

[neutrino]

It will be one hell of a fight for the BLUES to get out of the 1st division this year with Dundalk, Athlone, Finn Harps and even Monaghan looking to have good squads pre-season. However, I think we have a very good 1st division squad more than capable of winning the 1st division title and gaining promotion many of our players have already been through several promotion campaigns and our younger players have the experience of last years fiasco.

I'll bet money if we do get to play in the premier we will finish above at least 4clubs: Galway, Sligo (last year wasa one off you got a 1st season back in the premier bounce and your squad is mch weaker than last years), Longford, Rovers and maybe UCD.

regardless of it probably being a one off we still finished 5th in the league. alot of people being saying similar on these boards about it being a false position blah blah blah. sligo rovers finished 5th while your lot bounced around the bottom two.

of course our squad is weaker than last year. that team was built over a year , got promoted and went from strength to strength. alot of those players are gone with the old manger. so we have to build again. and doing so in the prem is much tougher indeed. objective is to consolidate in the prem. we're not naive enough to suggest we'll come 5th again. but in this league best of the rest is 5th so who know's who'll finish there behind the likes of bohs, cork, derry and drogehda . i'd settle for staying well away from a relegation scrap.

i think galway cud do well this season. UCD are always decent (esp against us :( ). i'll put money against urs that you'll be relegated....AGAIN !!

[Magicme]

Having seen what Sligo & Galway have to offer in the pre-season, Waterford will not have to worry about relegation.

[paul_oshea]

will there "appeal" be successful?

[Pauro 76]

Just heard about this. Delighted! The FAI have done the right thing. And who would have thought id ever include 'right thing' and 'FAI' in the same sentence!

[gustavo]

Having seen what Sligo & Galway have to offer in the pre-season, Waterford will not have to worry about relegation.

Pre-season is just that , pre - season


Just like to say that I hope this is a new dawn for Shelbourne and they can get back to being a football club

[Bluebeard]

Just heard about this. Delighted! The FAI have done the right thing. And who would have thought id ever include 'right thing' and 'FAI' in the same sentence!
I'll side track my current cautious ecstacy to note the following exception to the above mentioned rule:

"Drowning Stan and the rest of the F*ckwits at FAI before the would seem to me to be the right thing to do to help our chances of qualification."

[BohDiddley]

The season hasn't even started yet. I've had to design a special close season asterisk (http://www.walkthechalk.com/content.php?show=eircom_setanta_cup)
January 30th?!

[Mr A]

This could have done with a new thread to be honest- it's one of the biggest decision in the history of Irish football and it's a bit of a pain having to sort through to find the last place you read.

Anyway- interesting times in the eL. I'm starting to think that the close season is more exciting than the actual football!

[The Man Himself]

one john delaney
theres only one john delaney:D

a waterford man true and true

hes the one that fixed it for the blues by dumping shels out.:rolleyes:

and if you beleve all that then you must be a shels fan:eek:

[dcfcsteve]

As a side-point, this season and next may turn-out to be a bit of a golden era for the First Division.

They had bigger than usual crowds throughout the division in 2006 with Rovers down there, and now with Shels in the First they're probably likely to attract bigger than usual crowds again across 2007. Add in the fact that Sligo generated good crowds towards the end of the 2005 season, and the high level of competition for Promotion we've had over the last few years, and this will probably be the best supported era for the First since City were there in 1985-87.

[BohDiddley]

It appears that alot of shels mb posters want the decision appealed. can't see how they can complain:

They submitted their application, committee wasn't happy so they asked for explantions & only then when they felt their explanations didn't add up did they decide to relegate them. Personally I would have included a points penalty as well.

Also the last thing the league needs is to be dragged through the courts again & shels are in no position to go splashing out on court fees
What is the prospect of an appeal succeeding? Would it be too naive to ask that they take their medicine, accept the decision, and let everyone get on with some bloody football. Or are they morally bankrupt too?

[pete]

If Shels cannot get a Premier licence then it is illogical that they would get a Uefa licence. This would normally mean that next in line gets the place although I have heard there is a rule that only the league Champion can take the CL in leagues such as the eL.

This decision will be good for the FAI, government, Bohs & Pats as will surely mean Shels eventually move to Tallaght to share the stadium. Rovers probably won't be worried either as will have big head start on Shels to build a successful base.

It is staggering that Ollie spent 12-15m & only has game versus Deportivo to show for & a few league wins. I hope we don't hear the same crap heard after DC collpase that Ollies heart was in the right place. :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

If Shels cannot get a Premier licence then it is illogical that they would get a Uefa licence.

Actually it's also pretty illogical that they can be awarded a D1 license, as most of the financial criteria are exactly the same.

However, I do think the right decision was made in not kicking them out completely.

[Steveoc]

What is the prospect of an appeal succeeding? Would it be too naive to ask that they take their medicine, accept the decision, and let everyone get on with some bloody football. Or are they morally bankrupt too?

You mean you had to ask ??:eek:

I couldn't see an appeal against the demotion being successful especially as the 1st division licence was granted WITH conditions. Some of the conditions may be successfuly appealed though.

The good news probably is that Shels are unlikely to have suffecient funds to mount a High Court challange.:D :D

[Dodge]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

[Raheny Red]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

I like your thinking :cool: :D

[Erstwhile Bóz]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.
That would be an utter sham. And therefore sounds perfectly plausible, if not probable.

I'm uncomfortable with the current situation where the FAI looks to have done something remotely approaching the right thing. Doesn't bode well.

[OneRedArmy]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogetherMy thoughts exactly.

And if it is sorted by next week then the UEFA license will sort itself out.

IN any case I have zero confidence that the FAI's basis for their decision is anything other than riddled with holes and the usual threat of the High Court will force a climb down.

[WeAreRovers]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

Have to agree Dodge, that's how it looks and feels to me too. Hopefully, our overarching cynicism will be proven incorrect.

KOH

[Macy]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory
Was thinking along the same lines. Kinda depends on the conditions for the 1st Division Licence really. I suspect the 1st Division Licence is conditional on them clearing their debts to players and other clubs.

[Dodge]

Was thinking along the same lines. Kinda depends on the conditions for the 1st Division Licence really. I suspect the 1st Division Licence is conditional on them clearing their debts to players and other clubs.

I'm very interested to hear what these conditions are. [Conspiracy theory alert] It could be that one of the conditions (unwritten of course) was that they would be given the 1st division licence on condition they pay the wages and DO NOT appeal the premier division license being revoked. Similar to the bull**** deal where Rovers didn't appeal the 8 points deduction knowing they were getting off lightly (and no revisionism by Rovers fans will make me think otherwise). Ironically enough Ollie knew it was a BS deal and threatened to bring it court, looking for more punishment for Rovers.

Still think the first theory is more realistic...

[The Man Himself]

.

However, I do think the right decision was made in not kicking them out completely.

i feel for limerick in the way their matter was handeld, it all seems like shels got off scot free. one rule for dublin another for the rest of the country.

[Dodge]

i feel for limerick in the way their matter was handeld, it all seems like shels got off scot free. one rule for dublin another for the rest of the country.

Thats total ******** and you know it. Even Limerick fans wanted to get rid of the guy at the helm there. Totally different scenarios

[WeAreRovers]

Similar to the bull**** deal where Rovers didn't appeal the 8 points deduction knowing they were getting off lightly (and no revisionism by Rovers fans will make me think otherwise).

Without getting into so-called revisionism - I'll leave that to the undisputed kings in Dalymount - the reason we didn't appeal was also to do with the fact that the FAI hadn't the foggiest notion as to what they were doing. Hence an appeal could have been very messy for everyone involved - Rovers and the FAI. The FAI don't like uncharted waters and that's exactly where they were.

KOH

[lofty9]

My take on any appeal/conspiracy-

Is it only possible for Shels to appeal the decision of 19/02/07 based on facts presented at or before 19/02/07? They did have a number of days to submit further information as required to this date. Any subsequent changes of circumstances in the week after 19/02 are irrelevant to the date of the decision made by the FAI (an extreme example: Ollie Byrne could win Euro Millions, therefore Shels would be financially prudent). Therefore, Shels can only appeal the decision made based on facts presented at the time of the appeal or due to an misapplication of rules by the first instance committee.

Can any body clarify?

[Shelsman]

This was brought up before, the rules state that Sligo Rovers should get the Setanta place.

I guess there's no-one around to set the league(s) straight on their own rules anymore....

[oriel]

Its a correct decision to relegate shels, no question about it. But I wouldn`t be too cocky if i was a waterford fan, like us they have assembled a team to win the first div and also like us they would (will) struggle in the premier with their current side. At the play off game, I was shocked at the poor fitness of waterford, actually i was shocked at their standard. They are in a for one hell of a tough season ahead.

All in all its been a very good day for us, one of our closest challengers removed and a team with nothing to offer replacing them.

dcfc steve, dont forget who was also in the first div with you in 85/86, the bold shels !

[Shelsman]

So now we see the rule being bent back because a high profile team like Pats

:p High Profile? Good One :p

[cavan_fan]

Sorry for asking what may have been asked before in the 630 post thread (is that a record?)

Where are Shels going to get players from, will they be holding trials. Can I play?

[Jerry The Saint]

High Profile? Good One

Maybe he should have said "High Division":confused:

Nice to see Shels fans are concentrating on the important things, it's not as if you've anything else to worry about...:D

[Shelsman]

Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week :confused:

I have them at all of the above :D


kdjac

Biggest waste of money ever so!

[Shelsman]

So the FAI knew they were millions in debt and had a massive operating loss for last year? And still gave them a licence?

Judging by Rovers points deduction Shels will be docked every point they earned alst year...


They already have -they've been deducted all the points they will win in the 2007 season i.e. they've been instantly relegated.

[Shelsman]

Nice to see Shels fans are concentrating on the important things, it's not as if you've anything else to worry about...:D

With the Glasshouse already broken we can throw stones all we want! :D

Feels good!

:cool:

[BohsPartisan]

With the Glasshouse already broken we can throw stones all we want! :D

Feels good!

:cool:

Try not to use your entire morphine supply up at once, its going to be a long season.

[The Man Himself]

Its a correct decision to relegate shels, no question about it. But I wouldn`t be too cocky if i was a waterford fan, like us they have assembled a team to win the first div and also like us they would (will) struggle in the premier with their current side. At the play off game, I was shocked at the poor fitness of waterford, actually i was shocked at their standard. They are in a for one hell of a tough season ahead.

All in all its been a very good day for us, one of our closest challengers removed and a team with nothing to offer replacing them.

dcfc steve, dont forget who was also in the first div with you in 85/86, the bold shels !

that was a different waterford team you played in the play offs,
garth cronan is after signing 15 new players so far this year which brings the current squad up to 24 players,

different waterford team different season.

[wws]

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether



.....and on the fifth day they rose again?

[superblues]

Originally Posted by kdjaC
Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week

I have them at all of the above


A real waste of money since they are still 11/1 on pp!!!

[pete]

If the FAI allow Shels in the Premier it is an admission that the Shels accounts were correct & that licencing was an abismal failure.

I know we fell licencing has been implemented in hopeless manner but such a decision would be official acknowledgement of this.

:confused: