Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread [Archive] - Page 5

Soper

31/01/2007, 10:26 AM

And those guys play like their lives depend on it. Well in actual fact they do.
If team not success they will be execute.

The national team have a good goalkeeper, think his name is Bagatov.Good shot blocker.

dcfcsteve

31/01/2007, 10:29 AM

If Shels meet the Uefa licence criteria then you cannot deny them playing in Europe just because they won't be able to gain any coefficient points. That would set a dangerous precedent.

Champions League participation would be worth 260k to Shels just for partaking (100k per round & 160k compensation when fail to make the group stages) so I cannot see Shels giving it up without a fight. As a seeded team Shels could get drawn against Luxembourg or Faroe Island team so could fluke it into the 2nd round even with part-time players. Again they could fuke a big name draw in the 2nd round & with extra 100k = tv money could pay for their entire 2007 budget...

If, if, if.....!

Unfortunately, it was that sort of straw-clutching speculation year-on-year that got Shels into the sh!t they're in now Pete. You can't run a business on the basis of 'if' ! You have to budget for the worst case scenario re European income, and then everything else is just a bonus.

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionairrrrrrrreees.....!'

dcfcsteve

31/01/2007, 10:30 AM

The national team have a good goalkeeper, think his name is Bagatov.Good shot blocker.

Terris Bolsov.....?

Soper

31/01/2007, 10:31 AM

Hohohoho

WeAreRovers

31/01/2007, 10:43 AM

Slightly off topic here, but does anyone know whether it is the FAI Finance Department or an outside company that review the clubs accounts/budgets for the Licencing process?

Because whoever is responsible for this also needs to be held accountable for giving the ok to Shels/DC/Rovers at various times over the last couple of years

Bob Breen is his name, how he still has a job is beyond me. Last summer when Delaney was asked about Deceased FC's demise he said, it'll all be different under the FAI, airbrushing over the fact that the FAI and Bob Breen have always been in charge of licencing.

The FAI gave Dublin City a licence when it was patently obvious that their application was pure fantasy - 1,500 at home games in Dalymount!! - they gave us a licence despite the 400 Club informing them of crass accounting irregularites and they gave Shels a licence when the dogs on the street knew they were fooked and living on borrowed time.

Will anyone be held responsible? - apart from Neil O'Riordan, the SWAI, the "hooligan scourge", the internet, club programmes etc etc. Of course not.

KOH

pete

31/01/2007, 10:49 AM

Unfortunately, it was that sort of straw-clutching speculation year-on-year that got Shels into the sh!t they're in now Pete. You can't run a business on the basis of 'if' ! You have to budget for the worst case scenario re European income, and then everything else is just a bonus.

Forget the 2nd round so. Excluding gate receipts & costs of entry Shels are guaranteed at least 260k for participation in the CL this season.

If a club is denied a Uefa licence can you award the CL place to 2nd place in the league i.e. can a team from country with 1 CL qualifier who has not won the league particpate in the CL? Is there a precedent anywhere?

WeAreRovers

31/01/2007, 10:51 AM

Who was it said in a recent thread that football fans were not irrational?

That would be the font of all wisdom DCFCSteve. He's right you know, we're all rational human beings...especially Dodge. ;)

KOH

Macy

31/01/2007, 10:58 AM

does anyone seriously think that deliberately killing off Shelbourne would be good for their own club?
If Shels die, there's no one to blame but the Shels themselves. All the fans of other clubs are doing here is the equivalent of having a whizz on their grave.

I'm not sure what arguement there is for their survival for the good of other clubs. Certainly not the publicity they've brought the league during the close season, or through their constant threats of legal action during previous seasons. It certainly won't help the league to have the Champions making it into the season and going belly up mid way through the next one. And given the state of the club at the moment there would be nothing to be gained for the league of them struggling through to the Champions League qualifiers.

Schumi

31/01/2007, 11:15 AM

If they're found to have got last year's license fraudulently the league should be stripped from them
and all of their results expunged? This could be fun. :D

bohs til i die

31/01/2007, 11:17 AM

and all of their results expunged? This could be fun. :D

How would that work with the Bohs/McGuinness-gate affair. Would we lose the 3 points we lost from the game that we won 3 points against Shels?

Schumi

31/01/2007, 11:21 AM

I'm not sure what argument there is for their survival for the good of other clubs.

A trip to Dublin for 1st Division clubs?

Raheny Red

31/01/2007, 11:38 AM

No, Harpal Singh will be looking after our korma this season...

That korma one is wearing thin at this stage :p

Leeza

31/01/2007, 11:40 AM

Or you could get your own bloody ground about time too.

BohsPartisan

31/01/2007, 11:40 AM

Better add more Yoghurt so.

Jerry The Saint

31/01/2007, 11:45 AM

I've no problem with anybody wishing them well

I disagree. Whatever people really feel about the club and what it's done in the past, I don't think it's appropriate to wish them well in this thread. If you can't say anything nasty don't say anything at all...

dcfcsteve

31/01/2007, 11:47 AM

In the event of Shels going pop and Tolka not being available to anyone for football (unlikely - as surely the administrators would want to generate revenue from it in at least the short-to-medium term whilst the whole legal kerfuffle about who owns the lease and how much of it get sorted out) - in that fairly unusual circumstance, I'm sure Rovers would find somewhere to play. Even if it was Belfield or Bray

I'd like to think that Bohs or UCD or Pats or Bray or Drogheda or someone would help out a fellow club who was being shafted by the GAA at one end, and by Shels's incompetence at the other.

BohsPartisan

31/01/2007, 11:55 AM

If Shels results were expunged:

Derry 58
Drogs 57
Cork 43
Sligo 39
UCD 38
Pats 36
L'ford 32
Bohs 29
Bray 16
W'ford 12

charliesboots

31/01/2007, 11:59 AM

of course if that happened the IAG would have to reprocess all applications to take into account the new figures on the footballing side!!!!!:D :D :D

Schumi

31/01/2007, 12:00 PM

I'd like to think that Bohs or UCD or Pats or Bray or Drogheda or someone would help out a fellow club who was being shafted by the GAA at one end, and by Shels' incompetence at the other.Don't see any reason why Tolka wouldn't be available but AFAIK the college, who own Belfield Park, don't allow it to be used for games not involving UCD so we wouldn't be in a position to help.

Paraic

31/01/2007, 12:11 PM

Don't see any reason why Tolka wouldn't be available but AFAIK the college, who own Belfield Park, don't allow it to be used for games not involving UCD so we wouldn't be in a position to help.

And with Brian Mullins heading all things Sport in Belfield, unlikely to change - cue SRFC conspiracy theorists.....

Trainee

31/01/2007, 12:28 PM

If Shels go bust will the Start of the league be delayed as Fai look for a new team to replace Shels or will they go for a 9 team first divison next season?

pineapple stu

31/01/2007, 12:29 PM

You'll almost never hear me defend the FAI but....if a club submits accounts that seem to have been independently audited the FAI have to accept them. The repurcusions for submitting false accounts are likely to be severe so I'm sure the FAI use that threat as a means of receiving truthful accounts.
I would be amazed if an auditor had willfully signed his name to a fraudulent set of accounts, to be honest. He's putting his whole career on the line for what? A promise from Ollie that he'll get paid some day?

I would far more believe that the FAI are making a big deal about demanding to see Shels' application because it draws attention away from the possibility that they knew full well what was going on and didn't bother to do anything about it - as WaR has pointed out, it wouldn't be the first time - and as such, are actually implicit in all this.

Student Mullet

31/01/2007, 12:32 PM

Don't see any reason why Tolka wouldn't be available but AFAIK the college, who own Belfield Park, don't allow it to be used for games not involving UCD so we wouldn't be in a position to help.That seems so greedy. We'll have a spare stadium and poor old rovers have none.

LukeO

31/01/2007, 12:36 PM

That korma one is wearing thin at this stage :p

Shhhh... not everyone reads ShelsWeb... especially not my posts... ;)

Schumi

31/01/2007, 12:37 PM

I'd forgotten about the move to the Bowl. Maybe we could let Rovers play on Belfield Park, dodging the cranes and cement mixers.

centre mid

31/01/2007, 12:37 PM

Dont think Rovers would be welcome at Bray

TonyD

31/01/2007, 12:43 PM

It'll be a sad, sad day for the LoI if Shels aren't around to be slaughtered and gloated at next season.

Hear, hear. That's why I don't want them relegated either. I want my pound of flesh next year, in the form of nine points and a bucketful of goals - oh, and I want a fully recovered Ollie back at the helm too, to suffer the consequences of his actions.

(We'll take the free Euro space when they drop out/are kicked out though, with thanks :D )

BrayUnknowns

31/01/2007, 12:46 PM

I'd like to think that Bohs or UCD or Pats or Bray or Drogheda or someone would help out a fellow club who was being shafted by the GAA at one end, and by Shels's incompetence at the other.

I'd hate to think that if Rovers were stuck that we would turn them away, only reason being that it would be a nice little earner for us.

Dodge

31/01/2007, 12:50 PM

Pats board would more than welcome rovers (and associated revenues) into Richmond. Fans wouldn't care either.

pineapple stu

31/01/2007, 12:50 PM

speaking of criminal does anybody know who the other director of Accolade Limited is (presume Ollie is one)? reckless trading charges are surely a possibility??
Is it yer man O'Reilly? I have the accounts somewhere; I'll dig them out and have a look.

dcfcsteve

31/01/2007, 12:54 PM

If Shels go bust will the Start of the league be delayed as Fai look for a new team to replace Shels or will they go for a 9 team first divison next season?

It's been done before - 2001/2 season when St Francis disappeared/merged/were gobbled up.

Ideally the FAI should be looking to avoid such a scenario by giving Shels a deadline to prove themselves capable of not just starting, but lasting, the season. If they can't do so by then, it should be a case of 'sorry'....!

But knowing the FAI, they'll just plod along hoping that nothing will go wrong. And then hide behind their desks when the inevitable does happen, things go tits up and the media give them a bollocking. Still, never mind - they can always dole out a few fines and legal writs to anyone who criticises them....

bigmac

31/01/2007, 1:11 PM

If Shels go bust will the Start of the league be delayed as Fai look for a new team to replace Shels or will they go for a 9 team first divison next season?

There'll be a miraculous about turn in their strategy and there'll be two teams in Limerick next season. You heard it here first ;)

Dodge

31/01/2007, 1:45 PM

I presumed it was a relation of Ollie

charliesboots

31/01/2007, 1:47 PM

An auditor can only sign his name to what is put before him, he does not produce the delivery dockets, receipts, invoices etc.

TonyD

31/01/2007, 1:52 PM

Calcio Jack

31/01/2007, 2:11 PM

One thing that puzzles me about Shels supposed €10-12m debts. Around half of that figure is listed in the papers as money owed to Ossie Kilkenny and friends. BUT, if this is money that Shels/Ollie were drawing down from the sale of Tolka, then how on earth is that a debt ? unless the sale is not now going ahead ?

Quiet simple... say someone lends you €100k on the back of a contract/promise that sometime in the future you will repay them from the proceeds of the sale of your house.... until you sell your house and repay them the fact is you have an outstanding debt of €100k (plus interest).

wws

31/01/2007, 2:20 PM

...and than say that house wasnt yours to sell in any case, that a third party - unconnected to your deal with the second party had a superior hold on the title,
and that both you and the purchasers knew it was a half baked scheme
to begin with......

ah no one is that stupid shurely?!

pete

31/01/2007, 2:22 PM

One thing that puzzles me about Shels supposed �10-12m debts. Around half of that figure is listed in the papers as money owed to Ossie Kilkenny and friends. BUT, if this is money that Shels/Ollie were drawing down from the sale of Tolka, then how on earth is that a debt ? unless the sale is not now going ahead ?

I think you have to include this as debt as its money need to pay back at some stage be that from sale of tolka or through other means... Remember there is no guarantee the ground would be rezoned & could be worth feck all.

MyTown

31/01/2007, 3:42 PM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2007/0131/shelbourne.html

pineapple stu

31/01/2007, 4:42 PM

An auditor can only sign his name to what is put before him, he does not produce the delivery dockets, receipts, invoices etc.
That's nonsense. The whole point of having your accounts audited is that the auditor goes through the books and records to independently ensure that they're accurate. An auditor makes bloody sure he knows what he's signing.

passerrby

31/01/2007, 4:59 PM

what were the aig group doing putting shels down as a top twelve club

Dodge

31/01/2007, 5:22 PM

what were the aig group doing putting shels down as a top twelve club

They didn't. Off the field I think Shels were in the bottom 3 of all clubs. Their on pitch performance unmatched though

The Sheliban

31/01/2007, 5:29 PM

If Shels die, there's no one to blame but the Shels themselves. All the fans of other clubs are doing here is the equivalent of having a whizz on their grave.

I'm not sure what arguement there is for their survival for the good of other clubs. Certainly not the publicity they've brought the league during the close season, or through their constant threats of legal action during previous seasons. It certainly won't help the league to have the Champions making it into the season and going belly up mid way through the next one. And given the state of the club at the moment there would be nothing to be gained for the league of them struggling through to the Champions League qualifiers.

Well, one thing off the top of my head, the attendance sticky for last year showed that the majority of clubs got their highest attendances when Shels were in town. Whereas we were only about 4th in the attendance table, clubs we were playing always brought out the fairweather fans for the visit of Shels.
But sure, whizz away if it brings you some relief.

dublin15bohs

31/01/2007, 5:36 PM

Agree they should be punished but not relegated a point deduction and losing the CL place would be ok so we can all enjoy beating them next season.

dublin15bohs

31/01/2007, 5:39 PM

Id welcome them back to Dalymount and im sure the board would too

jebus

31/01/2007, 5:44 PM

Love the way everyone on this forum harps on about Irish football and promoting it and yet they want to get rid of the one club the average football fan in Ireland has paid any attention to in recent times :rolleyes:

As for Galwayhoop harping on about Shels buying success and how its wrong, aren't you a supporter of the club that took Dundalk's place in the Premier because your club is richer? Isn't that what that all boiled down to?

I think a minor points deduction is adequate enough punishment for Shels, and if they can't reach European criteria by UEFA's deadline than take their CL spot too, but they should be given until said deadline to get their house in order

Buller

31/01/2007, 5:59 PM

Or you could get your own bloody ground about time too.

thats the a, general idea.....
your ignorance is beyond me...

drummerboy

31/01/2007, 6:33 PM

The developers must be rubbing their hands at the sight of the Shels meltdown. I expect them to play hardball in all their dealings from here on in, thats not to say they have not already being doing so. What a travesty, to see Tolka Park, end its days in such a way.