Sean St. Ledger

[SwanVsDalton]

I'm far from being overwhelming negative. I'm pointing out that his club form is poor and has been for some time (which you agree with - who's the one ignoring the evidence?). If his week in, week out performances are poor, surely you accept that this does not bode well for his future performances at international level. There is a risk involved in playing a player that isn't performing at club level, all the more so when he plays at Championship level. He is a weak link.

By that measure the Irish side has about half-a-dozen weak links. This time last year we probably had about ten. But it's patently clear club form is not the be-all when it comes to playing for Ireland, which is what I'm pointing out (while AT THE SAME TIME taking into account his club form).

You would rather brand a player who's been generally excellent for us a 'weak link' - that's your lookout but it is overwhelming negative and OTT. Raise some points other than club form and maybe I'll come more on board.


Bar 1 season in the Championship, Dunne has played top flight football throughout his career and has 60-70 international caps to his name. He is currently first choice at a Premiership club.

In contrast, the doc is a patchy performer in lower tier English club football and is far from first choice in a struggling Leicester City team.

No real difference? I think that's open to debate, don't you? :)

Of course it's open for debate. But it would be more of a concern, and there would be a more pronounced difference between Sledge and Dunne, if Sean had yet to prove his ability at international level. He's proven himself to be fine centre back over 19 caps, with or without Dunne, in the Irish team. I have no idea how that concept is difficult to understand or how it doesn't affect your view on club form. My conclusion is St.Ledger ran over your dog.


My school days are long over son. But you'll find that the JoSH - Dunne partnership was broken up to accommodate the doc in the team which I strongly felt at the time was a mistake and still believe JoSh - Dunne is the stronger partnership. If you don't agree (which I suspect you don't :)) - that's fine by me.

You've asserted Sledge is a weak link and said you'd prefer a different set-up. I merely asked why and you haven't bothered...


Likewise.

...yet you don't think your as yet unjustified comments are OTT? Quality stuff.

Look I'm not ignoring evidence but I think it's fair to say St.Ledger has been a creditable (often excellent) international standard centre half for us so far. Club form's a concern sure, but he's proven himself to be a top centre half so it's fair(er) to suggest his club form is the aberration here. You disagree - fine. But you're going to be called out as being OTT and overly negative if all you offer for calling him a 'weak link' is total speculation and guesswork.

[tetsujin1979]

My school days are long over son. But you'll find that the JoSH - Dunne partnership was broken up to accommodate the doc in the team which I strongly felt at the time was a mistake and still believe JoSh - Dunne is the stronger partnership. If you don't agree (which I suspect you don't :)) - that's fine by me. O'Shea - Dunne was broken up because St LEdger was an adequate (if not superior) replacement for O'Shea at centre half, and it meant O'Shea could be moved to right back, where we were struggling for cover at the time, following Finnan's retirement. Foley was still untested at senior level, and Kelly had just transferred to Birmingham when Trapattoni took over after a difficult final season with Spurs.
The argument was not which was the stronger centre half pairing (Dunne - St Ledger VS Dunne - O'Shea), it was what was the best overall defensive unit (Dunne - St Ledger - O'Shea VS Dunne - O'Shea - AN Other)

[ifk101]

O'Shea - Dunne was broken up because St LEdger was an adequate (if not superior) replacement for O'Shea at centre half, and it meant O'Shea could be moved to right back, where we were struggling for cover at the time, following Finnan's retirement. Foley was still untested at senior level, and Kelly had just transferred to Birmingham when Trapattoni took over after a difficult final season with Spurs.

Yes I realise JoSH moved to RB when the doc came into the team. Accommodating the doc resulted in two changes to the back four; the break-up of a strong centre half partnership and the positional change of JoSH at RB. Yes Foley at the time was untested at senior level but so was the doc. You're also limiting your RB options to a small handful of players and not considering the option of the doc at RB instead of breaking up the JoSH - Dunne partnership. I'd rather have our most experienced and merited defenders in the center, not to mention the height advantage both players have over the doc.


...yet you don't think your as yet unjustified comments are OTT? Quality stuff.

My comments are justified as they are founded on the doc's poor club form which you agree with.

The dog's still alive btw.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd rather have our most experienced and merited defenders in the center, not to mention the height advantage both players have over the doc.

What club games would lead to you selecting O'Shea at centre half? It's you who's entered into this reductionist thinking after all...


My comments are justified as they are founded on the doc's poor club form which you agree with.

I don't know how to explain it any more plainly for you but your comments about St.Ledger being a weak link in the Ireland team are not justified by his club form. It just isn't that simple no matter how matter how much you try and reduce it.

[the doc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBaSbdDtyvU&feature=player_embedded#!

The doc was caught out badly there.

Taking delight in a player making a mistake, so you can sadly try and justify your claims!

Get a life you sad fecker!

[paul_oshea]

Sean didn't like you showing that video ifk101.

[the doc]

Sean didn't like you showing that video ifk101.

Can someone please change the record? :yawn:

Did you know that Llamas are bigger than Frogs?

[paul_oshea]

Their eyes expand under duress too.

Sorry Doc, I mean Sean.

[CraftyToePoke]

Dropped again today, Mills back in the side. Chambers captains Forest with Moloney also starting.

[paul_oshea]

I was sure i saw him at the end

[CraftyToePoke]

I was sure i saw him at the end



What does that mean Paul? What does that mean? Are you saying Ol' CTP is now incapable of regurgitating even the most basic of information?

[paul_oshea]

Saw him coming off the field at the end of play :)

[the doc]

Dropped again today, Mills back in the side. Chambers captains Forest with Moloney also starting.

Relax Crafty ToeRag!

All part of Svens rotation system! Sven said he would keep rotating the squad/team throughout the season.

Sven likes to try different things!

[CraftyToePoke]

Relax Crafty ToeRag!

All part of Svens rotation system! Sven said he would keep rotating the squad/team throughout the season.

Sven likes to try different things!


As for Leicester, maybe it was implied to St Ledger that he would start, when he signed and that someone hasnt kept their word.Think St Ledger will be looking to move if he isnt playing 1st team football in the next few weeks as he wont let anything affect his International career

Wasn't a rotation system last week was it Doc ! ha ha, love it, brilliant.

Anyway, I reckon drop Bamba and play you (I mean Sean) and Mills in the week and that would sort it.

[CraftyToePoke]

Saw him coming off the field at the end of play :)

I would then have to say, what you saw, was not what you thought you saw, if you see (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14514759.stm).

[ifk101]

I don't know how to explain it any more plainly for you but your comments about St.Ledger being a weak link in the Ireland team are not justified by his club form. It just isn't that simple no matter how matter how much you try and reduce it.

I beg to differ.


Taking delight in a player making a mistake, so you can sadly try and justify your claims!

Get a life you sad fecker!

What was it again you had to say about McShane, O'Dea and Alex Bruce to name but a few?

[tetsujin1979]

as part of his recent charity work Sean was in Dublin yesterday for Champion Sports and 3's Go Green promotion where you can trade in your old Ireland jersey for €20 off the new one, and was interviewed on NewsTalk last night.
The interview is online on the listen back service here: http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback
Scroll down to Off The Ball -> Wednesday 24th August -> Part 1 and the interview starts just after the 25 minute mark

[Stuttgart88]

Good move by 3. They must hate seeing so many old eircom jerseys still being worn!

[CraftyToePoke]

Not involved at all tonight (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14998337.stm) not even making the bench at present, I may have missed an injury to him though, anyone? His club kept their third consecutive clean sheet tonight, all achieved against sides in the top six and two away from home so he has work to do by the looks of it. Its a concern with the games coming up that he has played so little football this season.

[Kingdom]

He had a stinker in their second game of the season, after Mills had a stinker in the first. Eriksson seems to have given Mills the nod (not surprising after paying 5m for him).

It always surprises me when players like Legder and O'Dea do quite well at the international level, then stagnate at club level.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

He had a stinker in their second game of the season, after Mills had a stinker in the first. Eriksson seems to have given Mills the nod (not surprising after paying 5m for him).

It always surprises me when players like Legder and O'Dea do quite well at the international level, then stagnate at club level.

Thankfully I think O'Dea is doing well enough for Leeds.

[the doc]

He had a stinker in their second game of the season, after Mills had a stinker in the first. Eriksson seems to have given Mills the nod (not surprising after paying 5m for him)

St Ledger was playing well, before he got caught on the ball, as for Mills he's been poor but Sven plays him after paying so much for him.

In the league cup, St Ledger has been the better of the defenders, but still no joy from Sven.

Looking to go on loan but Sven is unhappy to loan him to a rival club that may challenge in the championship.

St Ledger has been very professional and worked hard in training, but it must be hard when you play well and get man of the match at International level, then dont even make the bench at Leicester.

[Junior]

St Ledger was playing well, before he got caught on the ball, as for Mills he's been poor but Sven plays him after paying so much for him.

In the league cup, St Ledger has been the better of the defenders, but still no joy from Sven.

Looking to go on loan but Sven is unhappy to loan him to a rival club that may challenge in the championship.

St Ledger has been very professional and worked hard in training, but it must be hard when you play well and get man of the match at International level, then dont even make the bench at Leicester.

Sean, dont take it personal. Try getting a few MOTM at the club side you are playing for, that will have more sway in keeping you in the side.

Looking for a Loan spell after 5 minutes at the club doesnt sound too good either. Knuckle down, good lad.

[TrapAPony]

Didn't even make the bench again this week

[IsMiseSean]

Didn't even make the bench again this week

There must of been a falling out... How he cant make the bench is ridiculous!

[Charlie Darwin]

He could be injured I suppose. Sean, can you confirm this?

[TrapAPony]

Also slightly off topic but Damien Delaney has been benched for the last couple of games in a row but still makes the Irish squad. IMO Trapattoni should go get someone on the granny rule as our centre half options are becoming desperate.

[Stuttgart88]

SSL and O'Dea have done just fine for us when called upon. SSL looks really comfortable in international football, whether he's playing for his club or not.

[tetsujin1979]

Also slightly off topic but Damien Delaney has been benched for the last couple of games in a row but still makes the Irish squad. IMO Trapattoni should go get someone on the granny rule as our centre half options are becoming desperate.
bit of an over reaction there surely? Between Dunne, O'Shea, St Ledger, O'Dea, and Clark we're reasonably well served at centre half. Paddy McCarthy having a decent season at Crystal Palace too.

[CraftyToePoke]

Also slightly off topic but Damien Delaney has been benched for the last couple of games in a row but still makes the Irish squad. IMO Trapattoni should go get someone on the granny rule as our centre half options are becoming desperate.

As far as I can make out, Chambers (Forest) Stearman (Wolves) and Gerrard (Cardiff) are available to him, or indicated they would like to be, Connolly at QPR qualifies also I think, as does Zat Knight as his England cap was in a friendly. Out of that lot, its much of a muchness between them and our current back up CB options I reckon, and in those circumstances Id favour the guys we have everytime. O'Brien has had a bonus run in the Derby side too and up until the weekend it was going very well for him.

Did you have someone in mind for this green granny recruitment manouvre?

[Charlie Darwin]

Stick Jermaine Pennant in at centre half I reckon. Gotta be better than whoever the Sunday World's current whipping boy is.

[dr_peepee]

Is he injured?? Not even on the bench for Leicester today.

[Sullivinho]

I don't think he's injured but Mills has been sent off for Leicester so that might increase his chances of getting a game or two. Then again, if he couldn't even make the bench today..

[CraftyToePoke]

The way it was re shaped today after the red card, the RFB went to CB and the sub came in at RFB, so maybe he will feature, if he doesnt then there is something more amiss.

[boovidge]

From about a week ago (http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/trap-belief-lifts-st-ledger-after-nightmare-spell-with-foxes-2901798.html)


"I feel fine and sharp. It was great to get on and play on Friday night. It's difficult and personally frustrating for me to be not playing for my club," St Ledger told the Herald ahead of Armenia.
"It's a bit of a nightmare at the moment, to be honest. I want to play but to keep my place with the Ireland team I need to be playing at club level regularly and I haven't been doing that.
"I haven't even made the bench for the last few games with the club and that's frustrating. It's not down to injury, it's purely tactical.
"It's hard to get angry with the manager as he's such a nice man and a good person, he's brilliant to work under. I want to be successful at Leicester. It's a massive club with great potential so I have to keep working as hard as I can to stay in there.
"But maybe I need to go on loan to get some football for the time being. If we do get to the play-offs I need to be playing if I am to stay in the team and if I'm going to be match fit."

St Ledger joined Leicester in the summer as part of the fall-out from Preston's relegation to League One, but the move has not gone according to plan and he's made just one league appearance for the Foxes.
"It's not easy when you can't even make the bench. You only have five subs on the bench in the Championship and our right back can play centre half so they have other options. I just have to deal with it, but it's been a very frustrating period," the player says.
"I have spoken to Sven about it and he said he'll speak to me again after the international break. We have only three centre halves at the club and if one of them gets injured then I am back in the team, but it's not easy.

[Yard of Pace]

This is perfect. Usually when we qualify we have an important player not getting his game at club level.

[Jaysus]

If Sledge continues to not play regularly at club level for the rest of the season, O'Dea should get the nod to start if we qualify for the Euros.

[Sullivinho]

This is perfect. Usually when we qualify we have an important player not getting his game at club level.

"And it's come through here.....McAteer!! Sledge!!"

[Murfinator]

If Sledge continues to not play regularly at club level for the rest of the season, O'Dea should get the nod to start if we qualify for the Euros.

Club level has no bearing to international record or capability, at which Sledge is streets ahead of O'Dea. Nonsensical post by another Dunphy inspired armchair pundit who thinks the 11 most frequently played Irish players in the EPL/CH should be our starting as if its some sort of qualifying merit over the lads who y'know actually deliver for the team in question.

[Jaysus]

Club level has no bearing to international record or capability, at which Sledge is streets ahead of O'Dea. Nonsensical post by another Dunphy inspired armchair pundit who thinks the 11 most frequently played Irish players in the EPL/CH should be our starting as if its some sort of qualifying merit over the lads who y'know actually deliver for the team in question.

Nonsense. St Ledger even said himself that he has to start regularly for Leicester to keep his Ireland place - see #535.

[Charlie Darwin]

There is no way he is "streets ahead." Both are competent players who have proven up to the task every time they've played for us.

[youngirish]

There is no way he is "streets ahead." Both are competent players who have proven up to the task every time they've played for us.

It's hard to argue that O'Dea has been anywhere near as good for Ireland as St Ledger. I know who's name I prefer to see on the teamsheet.

O'Dea does a job (usually) and nothing more. St Ledger looks a lot more solid and weighs in with that all important goal on occasion.

I'd like to see Ciaran Clark get a run out at centre back in a friendly as an alternative option if he manages to get a few more appearances in that position at Villa.

[SwanVsDalton]

Ciaran Clarke

Uh-oh.

[youngirish]

Uh-oh.
Amended.

[Acornvilla]

It's hard to argue that O'Dea has been anywhere near as good for Ireland as St Ledger. I know who's name I prefer to see on the teamsheet.

O'Dea does a job (usually) and nothing more. St Ledger looks a lot more solid and weighs in with that all important goal on occasion.

I'd like to see Ciaran Clark get a run out at centre back in a friendly as an alternative option if he manages to get a few more appearances in that position at Villa.
St. Ledger tackles the ball with his face, what more could you ask for

[dr_peepee]

Sledge would be very affordable for an Italian club. I often wonder why Trap doesn't recomend players like that to Italian clubs. Or does he simply see them as the best of a bad bunch in terms of the international options and not good enough in the greater scheme?

[SwanVsDalton]

Sledge would be very affordable for an Italian club. I often wonder why Trap doesn't recomend players like that to Italian clubs. Or does he simply see them as the best of a bad bunch in terms of the international options and not good enough in the greater scheme?

Trap has claimed he has, was a lot of chat around Given and Doyle as I recall. Problem is what club is going to come in for St.Ledger even with Trap's recommendation? And would Sean really be willing to head off to an Empoli-style backwater?

[dr_peepee]

Trap has claimed he has, was a lot of chat around Given and Doyle as I recall. Problem is what club is going to come in for St.Ledger even with Trap's recommendation? And would Sean really be willing to head off to an Empoli-style backwater?

Given and Doyle were always going to cost a few Million though.... I was thinking more of the Whelans and Sledges or this world... (or Paul Green!!!!)

We'd have to ask Doc what he'd prefer to the bench at Leicester!!

[ifk101]

Can't escape Dylan Moran's description of the English abroad when thinking of the doc in Italy.

"What do you mean there's no f**king chips. I come here on a plane".

[geysir]

I would read something into St Ledger's comments about maintaining match fitness. And I think his starting position would be under threat in the long run, whether that be the Finals or the next campaign.