Shane Long

[tricky_colour]

Ruud Gullit was singing his praised on MOTD, he kept saying "I like this player I like this player!". :)

Shame he could not remember his name though :p

He spotted his goal was offside though, which is what I thought when I saw it!


Also
http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20160424-ronald-koeman-shane-long-aston-villa-southampton-3077406.aspx
Shane is doing a great job for the team, says Koeman

[seanfhear]

Well done Shane, he will be needed by Ireland in the summer.

[Stuttgart88]

He was the BBC man of the match.



He should have had three today though - that chance in the first couple minutes was glorious.l thought he was a bit unlucky to hit the bar, side footing a volley is always hard to keep down. I'd like to have seen him score when he tried to round the keeper. Super asset though.

[Closed Account]

Strange that nobody on foot.ie ever suggested starting Shane ahead of Robbie? We are an eclectic group though.

[samhaydenjr]

Strange that nobody on foot.ie ever suggested starting Shane ahead of Robbie? We are an eclectic group though.

TOWK has been saying that for years now and I've had to defend Robbie's record against his claims that he only scores against minnows while pointing out that Long, for all his hard work and harrying of defenders, has rarely been prolific for club or country (with the exception of one season at Reading), which is what you actually want from a striker. And then there's the chicken and egg debate about him being played out of position (is his scoring rate low because he's not the main striker or is he not the main striker because his scoring rate is low?) . But now with Long averaging more than one goal in three games in the Premier League this season, I agree that TOWK is justified in saying that he is probably now our main man up front and will almost definitely be for the next campaign or two. Although, somewhat ironically, his most important goal for us came when Daryl Murphy was started ahead of him when he got to run with fresh legs at a slightly tired German defence.

[Closed Account]

My tongue was firmly in cheek.

[Stuttgart88]

TOWK has been saying that for years now and I've had to defend Robbie's record against his claims that he only scores against minnows while pointing out that Long, for all his hard work and harrying of defenders, has rarely been prolific for club or country (with the exception of one season at Reading), which is what you actually want from a striker. And then there's the chicken and egg debate about him being played out of position (is his scoring rate low because he's not the main striker or is he not the main striker because his scoring rate is low?) . But now with Long averaging more than one goal in three games in the Premier League this season, I agree that TOWK is justified in saying that he is probably now our main man up front and will almost definitely be for the next campaign or two. Although, somewhat ironically, his most important goal for us came when Daryl Murphy was started ahead of him when he got to run with fresh legs at a slightly tired German defence.Now now

[DannyInvincible]

Long scores his 13th goal of the season and his 100th in club football in putting Southampton 1-0 at home to Manchester City. He's in very good form. Great to see in the run-up to Euros.

[DannyInvincible]

Long's goal from two different angles:

ixBYjFUhYTY

ixBYmUH3Y3j

2-0 now, although Long had no direct involvement in the second.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

When's the last time an Irish player reached double figures in the Premiership? Must have been Keane at Spurs or Doyle at Reading anyways.

[DeLorean]

Doyle reached double figures once (13) in 06/07. He fell one goal short with Wolves in 09/10. Keane reached double figures seven seasons running up until and including 08/09.

[geysir]

No doubt Keane's stats were peppered with penalties, late goals against beaten sides and tap-ins against lowly teams.

Frank Stapleton remains the king of all our top level strikers with about 8 or 9 double figure seasons.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

No doubt Keane's stats were peppered with penalties, late goals against beaten sides and tap-ins against lowly teams.

Frank Stapleton remains the king of all our top level strikers with about 8 or 9 double figure seasons.

And a fair-minded, well-balanced, person would accept that the argument I was making came at a time when Keane's productivity and end-product for Ireland was diminishing, and when Walters (who I also apparently despise) and Long were more deserving of playing time up front.

They would also see that the last of his double-figure seasons at a high level came in 08/09.

I'm not going to say any more about his goalscoring record against first, second and third-seeded teams at competitive Intl. level. I posted the stats and people can take whatever they want from it.

Fantastic player in his prime, Paris, Estonia, can still make a contribution, goals against potential bogey teams like Macedonia have been huge but it doesn't make him some sacred goat that cannot be held to the same constructive criticism as any one else.

And come on. I never said anything about "late goals against beaten sides" or "tap-ins against lowly teams" and if I did it was probably a deliberate response to some asinine criticism of Long or Doyle because they "don't score enough from the bench", or "don't score enough goals when they are doing the donkey work for someone else" - Emile Heskey syndrome.

[tetsujin1979]

not everything is about you

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

“For me, the man-of-the-match was Shane Long,” he said.

“I know he didn’t score the hat-trick, I know he wasn’t involved in a lot of the stuff, but with some of his runs, he got them going in every way… He was outstanding.”

Henry also added that City allowed Long, Sadio Mane and Dusan Tadic to “look like Messi, Suarez and Neymar today”.



http://www.the42.ie/thierry-henry-high-praise-shane-long-2746421-May2016/

I hate the man, but I must admit he talks sense.

[Closed Account]

Bit of preview of the 18th of June in WHL today. Shane Long lone striker against 2 likely defensive starters for Belgium. He's done well, has gotten ahead of Toby and Jan on 1 occasion each. Service to him hasn't been as good as it was against Man City. Had a great chance to score back post header but seemed to take his eye off it at the last second under pressure from Rose. 7.5/10, about as good as anyone else on the pitch.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair play to Lloris for making nothing of that. Long actually tried to avoid full on impact having seen Lloris late, but in real time Lloris could have made it look worse.

Spurs playing a high line so Long seeing plenty of half-chances to get in. Provan said his earlier cushioned header, trying to bring down a long ball, was poor but taking that ball down and onto goal would have required an amazing first touch.

Careless pass inside just there.

Rose just tried to get him sent off. I'd have been happy if it worked!

[SkStu]

He also set up Ward-Prowse with a decent pass inside from a break. He was a little sloppy at times and his header at the back post should have been a goal but he really is a difficult player for defenders to defend against.

He seems to play a lot of games where he plays the full 90 which is a good sign but also a risky proposition. I was worried after his clash with Lloris as it looked like it could have hurt both. And it certainly would have if he had gone in with his foot instead of going to ground.

He's great to watch.

[Stuttgart88]

Souness said he was a pest to play against.

[Closed Account]

http://cdn-02.independent.ie/incoming/article34698438.ece/52dee/AUTOCROP/h342/LongShane.png
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/video-irelands-shane-long-picks-up-southamptons-april-player-of-the-month-award-34698455.html

[OwlsFan]

Souness said he was a pest to play against.

Yes, Souness doesn't have the legs anymore :)

[DeLorean]

MON on Long (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/martin-oneill-please-heavens-shane-long-stays-fit-399245.html)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What club managers doubted him? He was automatic first choice at Reading, West Brom, Hull and now Southampton. The reason he kept moving is because teams were paying £6m and £11m for him.

Last season and his first few seasons at Reading as a youngster aside, he has always been first pick.

His problem is consistently that Intl managers keep picking inferior players in positions he can play in.

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing wrong with MON's remarks at all. He wasn't always first choice at Hull as far as I can recall and you yourself used to criticise Koeman for not picking him more. You highlight a few seasons at Reading and a full season at Southampton. You could add a decent spell of this season and parts of his hull tenure too.

Just admit that he is in the form of his life right now and is deservedly first pick for club and country.

[SkStu]

Interestingly enough about Shane Long, his goal to game ratio is pretty consistent across all of his club appearances, including as sub, with about 1 goal in every 4 games. It is hard to say whether Long has ever really been "first choice" (i.e. automatic starter) for his clubs. He has an excellent start to sub ratio (2 starts in 3 appearances for Soton, 100% for Hull, 3 starts in 4 appearances for WBA) in his premiership career but, without digging into the overall games that his clubs have played during those times, I dont think I could confidently state that he has always been an automatic starter as TOWK claims above.

Where we do agree, I think, is that Long should have been first choice for country long before 2016. He did enough in a sometimes stuttering premiership career and ridiculously limited international appearances to be found a starting spot in the team. For all that he has taken his game to another level this year, he was always a terror to play against, had genuine pace and had always shown the ability to put a fair number of his chances away at international level.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Another case of what if, just like Hoolahan.

What if he was starting three campaigns ago like he should have been.

29 now. We'll be lucky if we get the best Shane Long for a full two campaigns. Especially with the way he plays. Look at what it done to players like Doyle and Torres.

It's worth noting that variables such as Alan Hutton trying to do him contributed to his sub appearances for West Brom as well.

[tricky_colour]

Stat attack Longs best position is attacking central midfielder!!



Position
Apps
Goals
Assists
Rating






FW (Forward Centre)
16
6
3
7.21



Sub (Substitute)
5
1
0

6.41


AMC (Attacking Midfielder Centre)
3
2
1
7.41


AMR (Attacking Midfielder Right)
2
1
0
6.78


AML (Attacking Midfielder Left)
1
0
0
6.36




It is only based on 3 games though

[geysir]

Nothing wrong with MON's remarks at all. He wasn't always first choice at Hull as far as I can recall and you yourself used to criticise Koeman for not picking him more. You highlight a few seasons at Reading and a full season at Southampton. You could add a decent spell of this season and parts of his hull tenure too.

Just admit that he is in the form of his life right now and is deservedly first pick for club and country.
Except Stutts he hasn't been first choice for his country. I think he only started one game in all the qualifiers and play offs, whereas Murphy started 2 or 3 ahead of Shane. In what other football universe would Murphy be selected ahead of Long?
MON's remarks about Long don't convince me at all. Even at this stage we still don't know if MON will select Long to start in the first game of the Euros.

[SkStu]

I think he only started one game in all the qualifiers and play offs, whereas Murphy started 2 or 3 ahead of Shane. In what other football universe would Murphy be selected ahead of Long?

This is really all that needs to be said.

[Stuttgart88]

And in that one game in Glasgow he was very poor! But that's not the point. The argument is that he has been tragically underused in favour of lesser players down the years and his lack of game time has cost him the chance to have been a highly accomplished international long before now. He'd been an even better player for us now if we had used him more in the past. I'd dispute that.

I wouldn't dispute that he is way better than Murphy but Murphy hasn't been picked over Long that many times, and when he was he was a prolific Championship scorer, or had been in very recent history. And by hook or by crook it worked against Germany. Being a prolific scorer in Championship or SPL is something TOWK puts a lot of stock in.

I think Long should have started more in this campaign but Walters stepped up to the plate for us. Long impressed from the bench. A past his best Keane put the minnows to the sword. By and large it all worked.

The arguments are hysterical and OTT.

The team is better now than a year ago. I think Long is a better player now than a year ago. I'd bet you anything Ronald Koeman agrees.

[Closed Account]

He started against Poland away also to be fair, (he started in the only 2 games we lost.....). Of the 9 games he was fit for he started 2, Murphy 3 and Keane 4.

It really is a stupid argument that his lack of gametime has held back his development, isn't it equally as possible that his lack of development has impacted his gametime.
I'd have started him in every game like I'd say most of the posters on here would have but arguing over it now it a bit pointless because at the end of the day:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/73/e6/f4/73e6f4406062c6e5e7a630ea51e07b88.jpg

[SkStu]

his lack of game time has cost him the chance to have been a highly accomplished international long before now. He'd been an even better player for us now if we had used him more in the past. I'd dispute that.


It really is a stupid argument that his lack of gametime has held back his development

Nobody is making these arguments.

[geysir]

The arguments are hysterical and OTT.
Who's being hysterical and OTT?
We have yet to see any evidence that Long is O'Neill's first choice, he hasn't been up to now.


The team is better now than a year ago. I think Long is a better player now than a year ago. I'd bet you anything Ronald Koeman agrees.
Ronnie would certainly agree about Shane as he has been taking the credit over the last 2 seasons for his improved performances.

[Stuttgart88]

Nobody is making these arguments.
Post 1773 and many before it.

[SkStu]

The post you have quoted as the main offender doesn't make any claim, implied or otherwise, that he (Long) would be a better player for us (Ireland) now if we had used him more in the past. This was what you claimed was being argued and that Joe picked up on with his comments - but I haven't seen that claim anywhere. It would be ludicrous to make such a claim. His development as a player is not reliant on international games. The argument being made by the posterior referenced is that, in his opinion, worse players have been picked ahead of him through out the years. And it's accurate. Murphy is one example, there are many others.

You've never been a fan or thought he warranted a regular start and quite a few posters here agreed and quite a few disagreed with you over the years. And that's fine, that's the good thing about debate. But don't make up arguments that aren't being made.

[DeLorean]

Whatever about how good he'd be now if he'd played more international games, I think post 1776 is directly related to the first sentence that Stu quoted Stutts as saying. And it was ludicrous to compare Long's Ireland career to Hoolahan's. There are no 'What ifs' with Long really. He got plenty of chances, maybe he should have got even more but he didn't take some of the big ones he did get. And I'm a big fan of his.

[SkStu]

I don't see it Del, unless I'm being very creative in how to reconcile the two statements. I can't speak to what TOWK really meant but to me it is lamenting what Ireland could have been with Long as a regular starter in the same way that we lament what Ireland could have been if Hoolohan hadn't been shut out for so long. I agree we shouldn't live too long in the what ifs.

On the plenty of opportunities piece...I think it's important to put his 60 odd caps (and 15 goals) into context. Roughly 2/3 of those caps have come from the bench. He has only made about 20 starts and maybe 6 or 7 of those were in competitive games. He made his debut in 2007. That's 9 years, maybe slightly more than two starts per year! Even less for competitive games!

I know the managers must have had their reasons but to me, as a huge fan of Ireland and a huge fan of Long, it doesn't seem right.

[DeLorean]

I haven't considered numbers really, I'm just going from memory and I know he started against Sweden twice and Austria twice in our last campaign, our four biggest matches. He did well in the first half of the Austria home game but was ineffective otherwise. He was ineffective in Glasgow in this campaign. I would have certainly started him ahead of Murphy in this campaign though, no doubt. It's not remotely comparable to the way Hoolahan was frozen out imo.

[SkStu]

He made 9 starts in 2013. 1 sub appearance. 2 goals.

His average number of starts in the other 9 years of his career are 1.9 per year.

He has actually made 26 starts in his career so I understated the number in my last post and presumably competitive starts too.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't care how many games he came off the bench from or started, anyone with an educated eye can see he has missed plenty of good chances, which he has done at every level bar championship. It's his only real weakness, well apart from impetuous tackles when standing off would be the better choice. I don't give a hoot about stats. I love the guy, have always maintained he is a beast to play against and a really valuable asset. TOWK has made the point about his lack of selection in the past and it was strongly alluded to in the post defending him from MON's fair remarks.

Jeez, people complain when Long is second fiddle at club level to AN Other (alleged inferior player at X club) then when a manager says he hasn't always been first choice he's criticised.

As for the hysteria and OTT, it's the whole package. O'Neill makes an interesting selection, overlooks some promising players with little chance of making the Euros, makes a fair comment about a talented player who is in the best form of his career, and it's a "baffling" selection, or worse.

[DeLorean]

He made 9 starts in 2013. 1 sub appearance. 2 goals.

His average number of starts in the other 9 years of his career are 1.9 per year.

He has actually made 26 starts in his career so I understated the number in my last post and presumably competitive starts too.

For me the numbers are a bit irrelevant. Keane and Doyle were generally considered our best forward options up until the last Euros. As I mentioned, Long got a good run of it in the next campaign. It's only this campaign really where he can feel a bit hard done by, but that's a very short time frame to be fretting over, if he is our first choice now, which going by O'Neill's comments and the recent friendlies I believe he probably is.

[Stuttgart88]

This is what O'Neill said:

“When Shane was in the squad, at times I wondered if he had a great belief in himself at club level. He was at Reading, West Brom, Hull, not at Hull that long, and he might start to think, ‘do any of the club managers fancy me?’ So maybe he had that to overcome.

“Shane has to take great credit for himself. His goal against Poland, when he was only on the field a few minutes, that gives him a lift, but the Germany game has definitely given him a lift. I don’t mean there was a contentment about Shane thinking, ‘Well, I’m not in the starting line-up, but maybe I can make a real impact as a sub’.

Anyway, anyone who was at the Italy game at Craven Cottage where Shane missed a couple of good chances, and in a run of games when he had fluffed a few chances for us, could see that the guy's head had gone. Everyone really felt for him. At the FAI breakfast in London (where Paul by popular consensus asked the best question ever put
to O'Neill and in an articulate and erudite manner unbefitting of a Rozzie) I asked O'Neill precisely this: "you're very well known for your motivational work, Shane looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders the other night, how do you help him?" He gave a bit of a waffly answer but it was clear he agreed with the premise: Long was doubting himself.

[SkStu]

I don't care how many games he came off the bench from or started, anyone with an educated eye can see he has missed plenty of good chances, which he has done at every level bar championship. It's his only real weakness, well apart from impetuous tackles when standing off would be the better choice. I don't give a hoot about stats. I love the guy, have always maintained he is a beast to play against and a really valuable asset. TOWK has made the point about his lack of selection in the past and it was strongly alluded to in the post defending him from MON's fair remarks.

Jeez, people complain when Long is second fiddle at club level to AN Other (alleged inferior player at X club) then when a manager says he hasn't always been first choice he's criticised.

As for the hysteria and OTT, it's the whole package. O'Neill makes an interesting selection, overlooks some promising players with little chance of making the Euros, makes a fair comment about a talented player who is in the best form of his career, and it's a "baffling" selection, or worse.

Calm down Stutts. You're only being challenged by me on what you tried to state was TOWKs argument when he made no such argument.

Of course you don't care about the numbers because they aren't relevant to your argument. The numbers, by the way, were actually brought up by me in response to Del who talked about having plenty of opportunities. Del, I think that having less than 2 starts per season (less than 1 competitive start per season) does not constitute a fair crack at the whip at finding your feet in the team and gaining confidence as an international player. That he did not do well in 2013 is not surprising as he was really only being given a prolonged run of starts for the first time since 2007 and his exposure had been stop-start before that. Just because Long was behind Doyle for that long doesn't mean that he should have been.

Look lads, anyway, is it not okay to be able to debate the opinions with stats or call out statements without folks getting in a tizzy and upset? I don't know, I thought we were all fairly good with each other that way for the most part.

[DeLorean]

Where's Crosby when you need him?

[SkStu]

Actually, can someone ban Delorean and Stutts too?

[Stuttgart88]

Towk has made such an argument, directly in the past and alluded to above. He got hot under the collar at O'Neill's quotes which were fair and complimentary and he went OTT on the O'Dowda and Doherty /Cunningham things, and totally and utterly contradicted himself in his justification. I get fed up when every minor value judgment made by management is torn to shreds like some scandal has occurred. I actually had no issue with what you said :)

[Irwin3]

He has a goal every 185 minutes for Ireland. The other options of recent years have inferior records. Long will probably finish his career as our number 2 all-time goalscorer. The argument about Long not taking chances would only make sense if we had superior players coming in ahead of him who were doing a better job. I don't think that has been the case for a long, long time.

[Stuttgart88]

Walters this season?

[Irwin3]

Walters this season?

Walters had a great period of form and sent us through. 5 goals in 6 games is fantastic. If you remember though, he wasn't exactly taking the front role in those games. Of that spell of 6 games for Walters, Murphy started 3, Keane 2 and Long 1. Long was even behind Murphy and Keane. A player who has never scored for us and a player who has only scored against Gibraltar in the last 30 months. I simply can't explain this.

Also before this run, Walters hadn't scored in 6 and had 1 in the last 15 games for us. He was always first choice though and would 'do a job', sometimes from the right. Our main goal threat at PL or international level in terms of minutes per goal or even simply as a running nuisance is Long and this has been the case for several years. There is no doubt in my mind that he has been underused in his international career. To illustrate this Walters nearly has the same amount of minutes as Long, despite Long being in the squad 3-4 years more than Walters.

[Irwin3]

Also, to re-state my position clearly, this shouldn't be a Walters vs. Long thing. They are our only two PL forwards and this has been the case for years. Both have a goal threat and a physical threat. When we played with 2 up in the last few years it should always have been these two and if Walters was playing from the right, then Long should have been the man up top.