Shane Long

[tricky_colour]

He's usually good for a goal every 4 months, at least.

2 a season? 3 if you include the summer break

2 for his club and 1 for Ireland

[centre mid]

Got his first of the Season today

[back of the net]

Just put southampton 1up against leicester

[DeLorean]

That's a big goal for him, badly needed. Came off the bench.

[back of the net]

just scored a second

[centre mid]

Just like buses

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Murphy and Long's form something to think about with Scotland on the horizon.

Long's overall form has been good. He just needed the goals to show for it. I'm happy for him. Hopefully he can keep it up and the 12m price tag won't be an issue as long as Southampton are flying in the table.

[tricky_colour]

Two goals for the Long Fellow.

[paul_oshea]

That will keep long going for another few months as usual. He could have had hat-trick

[tricky_colour]

Yea it was a bit rash of him to use his annual gaol allocation in just 5 minutes.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/video-shane-long-has-bagged-two-sublime-goals-for-southampton-30728646.html

Superb technique for both goals. I love the way he brought down the ball for the second goal; reminded me of his goal against Aston Villa last season.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Reached somewhat of a landmark today and is fast approaching another one; his 30th Premier League goal in his 95th Premier League start.

Interesting post match comments from Ronald Koeman.

'Shane is doing very well. In the beginning he had some adaption problems with the way we play and the way we train.'

'It is fantastic for me if you change a player and he scores twice.'

[Stuttgart88]

Very good, delighted for him. Very interesting comments from Koeman too.

[Olé Olé]

Fantastic that the first goal was a typical big man/little man type job- ball controlled by Pelle and Long fed off him before the finish. Demonstrates to Koeman that Long can be effective in tandem with Pelle (who is their number one choice).

All in all, two good goals. It's fair to say Shane isn't exactly the Ruud Van Nistelrooy one-touch finish-type so you'd expect nothing less!

Also, it's great that he's bedding in down at Southampton. That's a brilliantly run club they have so I would imagine it's a great club to work for. Met Long on a night out recently. Seemed a gent.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Fantastic that the first goal was a typical big man/little man type job- ball controlled by Pelle and Long fed off him before the finish. Demonstrates to Koeman that Long can be effective in tandem with Pelle (who is their number one choice).

All in all, two good goals. It's fair to say Shane isn't exactly the Ruud Van Nistelrooy one-touch finish-type so you'd expect nothing less!

Also, it's great that he's bedding in down at Southampton. That's a brilliantly run club they have so I would imagine it's a great club to work for. Met Long on a night out recently. Seemed a gent.

Weren't people saying that if he had to take more than one touch, he gets nervous?

It would be nice to see him playing up front more often and get on the end of those Dusan Tadic crosses with his trademark headers.

[DannyInvincible]

Two neat finishes. Great to see. Good movement for the first and a lovely placed finish.

Did the ball bobble off his shin when he took it down for the second or is it just the angle and inferior quality of the Vine that makes it look that way? If it had really hit his shin, I don't think the ball would have been cushioned downwards the way it was.

[DeLorean]

Looking forward to motd later to see them properly.

[DeLorean]

Just read that he's the only player to have scored for three different PL teams since the start of last season. Hardly surprising I suppose.

[Charlie Darwin]

Weren't people saying that if he had to take more than one touch, he gets nervous?
I think it's more than the more time he has to think about what he's going to do, the more likely he is to overcomplicate it.

Just saw his goals now. His run for the second goal was absolutely terrific. He seems to be getting the hang of this wide striker role now. It's different from the wide role he used to play at WBA.

[DannyInvincible]

Just read that he's the only player to have scored for three different PL teams since the start of last season. Hardly surprising I suppose.

That was confirmed on MOTD there.

Brilliant run, control and finish from Long for his second. He nearly got a third with a decent effort at the end. Looked to be brimming with confidence. I'm sure finally getting off the mark recently has been a huge weight off his shoulders.

[DannyInvincible]

Another view of the take-down for the second here: https://vine.co/v/Oe023xgn3dg

[Stuttgart88]

I think the real time tv angle shows it clearly coming off his foot rather than shin. You need to see it from the side somewhat as the camera behind the goal only shows the front-on view. It was a very good touch, taking the pace off the ball perfectly. It maybe slipped sideways more than he'd intended but actually it made his angle better to beat the goalkeeper.

Did anyone notice his forearm smash into the Leicester CB's head in his goal celebration? As he was running off the Leicester CB was in his way and he just shoved him aside with his forearm and in the next angle you could see him crumpled up on the ground while Long celebrated!

As for the "time to think" rebuke, I think there has been plenty of evidence that he is not clinical in those situations. Not scoring from "time to think" one on ones isn't so much the issue, it's how totally unconvincing he has frequently been. I don't think there is anyone on this forum who doesn't appreciate Long's ability as a footballer and what he brings to the table, but a reliable record in taking that type of chance isn't one of them.

[geysir]

Finally Shane scores a brace, only for his manager Ronnie to step forward to take all the credit for the goals, followed by a 'fantastic for me, feeling'.
I think Ronnie should have bided his time until the season ends, before expressing a self congratulatory overview of the player's progress.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think people are being pretty unforgiving about Long's form in front of goal at this level. 30 goals in 95 starts and 60 substitute appearances (the majority of which came after the 80th minute when he was a young lad at Reading) is generally compares pretty good to a lot of forwards at this level.

And his overall form is consistently good and he is recognised for holding the ball up, creating space, the required physicality for the PL, running the channels and bringing others into play so it's not like he is there primarily to score goals like certain forwards (Bent, Fletcher) and doesn't look completely ineffective when he isn't scoring (Van Wolfswinkel, Soldado). He's not the only forward to express profligacy in front of goal. He's just held up to a microscope.

I mean he's constantly under a microscope yet at the end of the day he has 2 in 5 starts despite playing in an unfamiliar wide attacking role (more than Balotelli and just one less than Rooney & V. Persie).

RE: Intl. level: The Serbia game probably sums it up. He scores a goal all of his own making against a top Intl. team in a friendly game and all anyone can talk about after it is a sitter he missed, again, all of his own making. He has scored approximately 1 in 3 starts, has the pace to engineer chances and links up favorably with the midfield yet there is a reluctance to start him despite the fact that Keane has looked completely ineffective any time he has come up against a good team in the last two years, does not have the pace that he used to possess and does not link up well with midfield.

The mindset when analysing Keane & Long is interesting like. With Keane it is the team isn't set up to play to his strengths. With Long it is he should have buried that chance. Forgetting the fact that we wouldn't be engineering those chances if Keane was playing. Instead we would be hoping that solid defences would have mental slips and Keane would be lying in wait to punish them (it hasn't been happening).

I think what's lost in this is that Keane hasn't been any more convincing than Long when presented with chances against teams of/> caliber than Scotland and Long hasn't continuously been given the chances to prove himself as his competitive appearances have been completely sporadic.

Anyways I'm sure Keane will have a great game against Scotland, will score the winner, prove me wrong and my foot will be in my mouth.

[Fixer82]

but a striker's bread and butter should be putting away those chances he missed against Serbia.
I think that's what worries most.
You usually get one good chance in any match against strong opposition. You need to take it.
Those were chances Robbie would have put away.

Watched back the Germany game and Robbie didn't do too bad. Saw very little of the ball and I don't think Long would have done much better.
McClean crossed a ball in low in the second half and Robbie was in a perfect position for it. German keeper pulled off a ridiculous save, catching it in mid air.
Had he not gotten it Robbie would have been the hero once again, having barely touched the ball in the previous 50 minutes.
I don't know if Long would have gotten into that position.
We can say Long is better in the air, and of course he is, but hardly any balls were even hoofed up to Robbie against Germany.
Most long balls were lumped up to Walters.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Fair enough. Keane isn't presented with nor carves out a lot of chances though. Long has the pace to get on the end of things and is intelligent enough to spot good positions (like his first goal yesterday). Long also gets chances on the counter attack and is a great outlet for a through ball.

He isn't as clinical as he should be but if we're bringing up the chances Long has missed (Serbia) it would be remiss not to mention crucial chances Keane has missed (Slovakia (a), Sweden (a)) and the fact that through Euro 2012 and 4 games against Germany and Russia, he has had scarcely any goalscoring chances. Fair enough you have to have the supply but on the flipside strikers have to create chances for themselves these days as well. It's a big part of being a modern forward.

The thinking seems to be that if we get a chance Keane will be more likely to put it away than Long and fair enough but has there been evidence that he will even get any chances to begin with before the putting them away part?

There is evidence despite our worries that we can share the load when it comes to scoring goals ( i.e. McGeady, O'Shea) without overly depending on someone who inhibits our options in regard to tactics and formation and whose goal threat has diminished.

He obviously still has something to offer on the pitch and his leadership and experience is vital, but, his legs completely went after an hour of the Georgia & Germany game. I think there is better ways of utilising him. Though he's starting the Scotland game so I'm going to have to hope that Long's w/end performance can convince O'Neill that he can at least be a good option off the bench.

[Stuttgart88]

Is he starting against Scotland? I expect so, and Id probably go with him myself, but I think O'Neill has a decision to make.

Wrt the scrutiny applied here to Long, in one sense it is TOWK who actually set the agenda by being so vocal, or in the way he has expressed his opinions on this topic. I read a great quote by Sam Warburton about statistics during the week: they can look great but they don't reveal everything.

Long's finishing has been the topic of debate long before TOWK joined the forum anyway. I have been frustrated by the chances he leaves out there for a few years now, pretty much since he stepped up from Champipnship to Premier League. Of course the EPL is harder, but sloppy finishing is sloppy finishing at any level. Yes, he has a respectable enough record but we're not all sheep following each other on foot.ie. His finishing has been a notable weakness in an otherwise strong game for a while. It's not an agenda or anything, it's just commenting on what is out there.

As for the "will we get chances" argument? Who knows? I'd be inclined to give Keane 55-60 minutes on the basis that I think we will see plenty of the ball on Friday, but I have to say I'm not sure. I think the Keane / Long thing is probably the biggest question MON needs to find an answer for. I wouldn't have picked Keane for Germany for reasons mentioned before.

Keane has missed lots down the years but if anything his finishing is better now than when he was 25 / 26. Long didn't just miss chances against Serbia, that's just silly.

[Fixer82]

i imagine Keane will start with Long coming on as a sub, considering Long's recent form.

I would imagine the starting XI will be:

Forde

Coleman Keogh O'Shea Ward

Walters McCarthy Quinn McClean

McGeady

Keane

[tricky_colour]

Long has a career average goal every 283.56 minutes.
This season it is a goal every 224 mins.

For comparison Walters is 417 mins

[Charlie Darwin]

On the bench for Southampton today at home to Man City. Strange, I thought that this would be the perfect game for him.

[DannyInvincible]

Long preparing to come on now.

[DannyInvincible]

Long does well to dispossess Yaya Toure before Mangala is sent off for taking him down outside the box as he raced for goal.

[tricky_colour]

he almost provided a great assist, used his pace down the wing but the ball in was too
fast/inaccurate

[tricky_colour]

minutes later man city player (aguearo?) does a carbon copy move but the weight of the ball in was correct

[Charlie Darwin]

he almost provided a great assist, used his pace down the wing but the ball in was too
fast/inaccurate
Think he should have trusted his left foot rather than hooking his right around it and overhitting it.

[tricky_colour]

Think he should have trusted his left foot rather than hooking his right around it and overhitting it.

Maybe, it was not a bad effort though, just a fraction out, just hit it a bit too hard. I think maybe he thought the keeper would get there
if he hit it slower.

[Stuttgart88]

Just saw it. It was a perfectly decent ball, it could hardly have been better really and the forward could have done better. It did look inelegant though and I prefer to see a top level football being able to use his left. Still, Aguerro did something similar for Clichy's goal so he's in good company.

[DeLorean]

Yeah it was pretty perfect from Long's point of view. He put it into the exact area where a striker should want it, he just didn't get there quick enough. Was it Pellé? He totally bottled that chance in the first half, bit embarrassing I thought.

Long got a nice goal the other week with his left foot. Sometimes a player's body shape is such that it's just easier to use their good foot. Gareth Bale regularly uses that approach when cross from the right, although he got a super goal with his weaker foot at the weekend too.

[KK77]

Poor enough goal return at club level for the money spent.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Three goals in just over half a dozen starts, of which he's had none in his natural position.

With Pelle's form, they could do with giving him a rest and giving Long a chance in his natural position.

He had more of an impact in 20 minutes than Pelle did over the entire game.

He also acquitted himself more than Pelle in the Aston Villa game.

Though it's somewhat understandable that Pelle would be given more chances after the impact he made. Long couldn't legislate for that.

[DannyInvincible]

In fairness, he does do a lot of other work besides scoring few goals.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

In fairness, a record of one in three starts at Premier League level and his overall play is pretty good when you compare it to the average PL forward outside the top 6.

And people seem too be confused about what positions he is playing in at Southampton. Pelle is the striker. Long has played on the wing and behind the striker but he hasn't been played in his natural position.

[DeLorean]

And people seem too be confused about what positions he is playing in at Southampton.

Like who?

[DeLorean]

Saw some of the game last night live and tiny bit of the highlights. The commentator on Sky (who I like actually) said that Long had put in a very good shift when he was being substituted. On the highlights, I saw one bit of play where Southampton broke quickly and sent Long off down the right. He had the Arsenal defence beaten for pace all ends up and just needed to try to square it to Pellé who was in a great position in the box. Long opted to shoot from a crazy angle and skied it. It was actually kind of unforgivable. The camera went to Koeman on the bench and he had a look of disgust about him, couldn't blame him. Replacing Long turned out to be costly though, as it was their final substitution and they had to play the remaining ten minutes or so with ten men, when Alderweireld picked up an injury.

[samhaydenjr]

In fairness, a record of one in three starts at Premier League level and his overall play is pretty good when you compare it to the average PL forward outside the top 6.

And people seem too be confused about what positions he is playing in at Southampton. Pelle is the striker. Long has played on the wing and behind the striker but he hasn't been played in his natural position.

But that, in itself, is a cause for concern - that his manager doesn't believe in his striking abilities enough to play him as an out-and-out striker and favours him only as a general attacking utility player. And that's an issue for us in the current Long v Keane starting striker debate and will be an even bigger issue when that debate ends, as it quite possibly will before the next World Cup.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Graziano Pelle also skied a simple chance in the first half but that will be lost in the annals of time. The only thing wrong with Long's finish was that he didn't square it to Pelle. Hardly anyone would have been expected to even get that chance on target let alone score it.

And "look of disgust" is overdoing it a bit, no? Isn't that an overexaggeration someone like me would be proud of?

[DeLorean]

It was a shocking decision by Long not to square it, I thought Koeman looked pretty annoyed, maybe not. I was going to mention Pelle's chance on his own thread, but then I remembered he's not Irish, so nobody here gives a sh!t.

[tricky_colour]

In fairness, he does do a lot of other work besides scoring few goals.

Does he have a second job?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

https://metro.co.uk/2014/12/04/shane-long-would-have-been-better-for-liverpool-than-mario-balotelli-says-kop-legend-steve-nicol-4973941/

Shane Long would have been better fit for Liverpool than Mario Balotelli says Kop legend Steve Nicol.

[DeLorean]

I'd have been a better fit than Mario.