View Full Version : Shane Long
Stuttgart88
14/05/2016, 9:09 PM
Yep, good point. I'm not saying it's an anyone versus anyone else thing either. I just think that between Walters and Long they did the job. It might have been better if used in different combinations or scenarios, but who knows?
I actually think Doyle was prematurely discarded but I don't go on moaning about it. And for the record, 12 months ago I was tired of O'Neill and didn't see things getting better. They did, partly by luck and partly by design, but at this point in time he deserves the benefit of any doubt.
paul_oshea
14/05/2016, 11:43 PM
I love the infighting.
Oh ya and ban stutts and Delores too.
tetsujin1979
15/05/2016, 12:56 AM
No, and no
Charlie Darwin
15/05/2016, 12:59 AM
No, and no
That Dolores (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dolores-oriordans-16month-air-rage-ordeal-ends-as-judge-strikes-out-her-case-34505960.html)is bad news though.
Oh yeah. Charlie Darwin, late to the party and in over the top with a right hook after the fight was over. Typical Rovers... ;)
Charlie Darwin
15/05/2016, 3:12 AM
Oh yeah. Charlie Darwin, late to the party and in over the top with a right hook after the fight was over. Typical Rovers... ;)
Have to find some use for my umbrella in this weather...
DeLorean
15/05/2016, 12:49 PM
Firstly, I think most people would agree that Long should have started more games during this campaign. The brute force approach of Walters/Murphy was generally criticised on here, by myself included. I agree with Irwin (and probably everybody else) that Murphy ever starting over Long is a hard one to explain. To be fair to O'Neill though, he seemed to explain it indirectly the other day with his remarks about it being so important for a centre forward to have the ability to hold the ball up. He obviously didn't think that Long did this well enough and that pretty much explains why he went with Murphy over him a couple of times. Whether this was unfair on Long is certainly open to question, but clearly that was the logic behind it.
O'Neill's comments much further back probably explain why Long wasn't first choice in the earlier part of the campiagn. I remember him saying that playing out wide for his club wasn't an adequate excuse for not scoring enough goals, sighting his own playing days at Nottingham Forest. Again, maybe Long's goal ratio tells another story but O'Neill obviously still felt that Robbie Keane was the best bet to put the ball in the net, which was probably compounded by Keane's hat-trick against Gibraltar early on. To be fair to O'Neill also, he identified reasonably quickly that Keane wasn't the player you could trust against decent opposition any longer, dropping him for Glasgow and giving Long his opportunity to shine.
Unfortunately, and through very little fault of his own I think, that game did more harm than good for Long, as it probably confirmed any preconceived notions that O'Neill had about him (i.e. not a big enough goal threat and incapable of holding the ball up). And so it was back to Keane for Poland, and one last chance to impress against decent opposition. It took until the Georgia home game to realise that Keane isn't even our best option against semi-decent opposition any longer.
It's Long's underuse prior to this campaign that I think is worth debating, stats are nothing without context.
Del, I think that having less than 2 starts per season (less than 1 competitive start per season) does not constitute a fair crack at the whip at finding your feet in the team and gaining confidence as an international player. That he did not do well in 2013 is not surprising as he was really only being given a prolonged run of starts for the first time since 2007 and his exposure had been stop-start before that. Just because Long was behind Doyle for that long doesn't mean that he should have been.
There is no doubt in my mind that he has been underused in his international career. To illustrate this Walters nearly has the same amount of minutes as Long, despite Long being in the squad 3-4 years more than Walters.
Was it not generally accepted that Doyle was ahead of Long on merit up until Euro 2012 at least though? I can't remember any major outcry for Long's inclusion in the first team up until then anyway. Therefore I think stats dating back to 2007 from that point in time are a bit irrelevant, it's all about context.
Long was generally used as a substitute and given opportunities to start in friendlies, which was fair enough at the time I think. It is international football after all, two starts a season is probably fairly standard for a player who isn't first choice. There aren't that many opportunities to help guys find their feet if there are perceived better options ahead of him.
So, for me, the only real question is whether or not he has got amble opportunities post-Euro 2012. I've already discussed the current campaign so that only leaves the WC14 qualifiers. Like I mentioned, he started our four key games, against Sweden and Austria. He possibly should have started more of the other games but it was a fairly disjointed campaign anyway, and I don't think he really grabbed the very good opportunities he did get. Overall he definitely could and probably should have started more games for us, but I don't think it's been quite a big an injustice and ye guys seem to think. If he was always as consistently good as he has been this season, I would have an entirely different view.
geysir
15/05/2016, 3:34 PM
For me it was more a concern of MO'N resorting to hoofball tactics in the awful spectacle against the Swiss and in that scenario Walters and Murphy are seen as better.targets and where Long's talents are under-utilised.
If MO'N has since attended addiction therapy in order to wean himself of his compulsions to resort to mentally challenged hoofball, then we can write off that Swiss game as a final hoof binge where MO'N reached rockbottom and we now seek other intelligent ways to counterattack with Long as his nr 1.
Closed Account
15/05/2016, 3:42 PM
This thread is a classic example of the problem with International football. Such a big gap between games that fans resorting to talking ****.
TheOneWhoKnocks
15/05/2016, 3:57 PM
I haven't considered numbers really, I'm just going from memory and I know he started against Sweden twice and Austria twice in our last campaign, our four biggest matches. He did well in the first half of the Austria home game but was ineffective otherwise. He was ineffective in Glasgow in this campaign. I would have certainly started him ahead of Murphy in this campaign though, no doubt. It's not remotely comparable to the way Hoolahan was frozen out imo.
I think he was better than Walters in Glasgow and the problem was Walters was shoehorned up front with him. when Long playing as the lone striker would've caused Hanley more problems. In fact Hanley could have been sent off for a last man foul on Long.
He's been hard done by a long time. Sure Andy Keogh and Simon Cox were getting games ahead of him out wide when Long's pace, link-up play and crossing were far better.
The only thing worth responding to in your post Delirium (only because we'd both be repeating ourselves) is related to him v Doyle and the merits of a start. Just looking through this thread, it looks like the serious calls for Longs inclusion as a starter (ahead of both Doyle and Keane btw) began in late 2010 and early 2011. It coincided with his 20+ goal season in the championship coupled with Doyle's 3 goal season w/Wolves and Robbie's loss of form. It also came after his complete dismantling of Uruguays defence in a friendly after they reached the semis of the World Cup. They beat us of course but his performance was the stand out. Some posts complained that Trap just didn't rate him and questioned why.
Anyway, I still believe that Long didn't get the chances in green that he deserved until way too late in the day. Sure he had some games in 2013 and, sure, he missed a couple of chances but he has been generally very under utilized by Trap and MoN. Hopefully this is his tournament!!
Europa League football for Shane-dog next season too! Nice!
DeLorean
15/05/2016, 5:16 PM
Southampton have gone from 8th to 7th to 6th (probably but maybe even 5th) in the last three seasons despite losing Lovren, Shaw, Chambers, Clyne, Shaw, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Lambert and even Alderweireld (although he was only on loan) in that time. Seriously impressive resilience especially taking in the fact that they lost Pochettino as well.
CraftyToePoke
16/05/2016, 4:12 PM
They lost Shaw, you say ?
Stuttgart88
16/05/2016, 5:00 PM
To lose Shaw once might have been unfortunate but to have lost him twice is outright careless.
DeLorean
16/05/2016, 5:46 PM
Thanks for making it clear Stutts, I had no idea what Crafty was on about, but somehow I knew that the joke was on me. :)
Eminence Grise
18/05/2016, 8:16 PM
What was it Wilde said? There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. Shaw-ly some mistake?
Stuttgart88
18/05/2016, 8:50 PM
Wilde? I was absolutely livid.
(You need to be approaching 50, or older, I think)
Eminence Grise
19/05/2016, 5:13 PM
Still a few years off, Stutts, but old enough to remember Prof Fielding and Gerald (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCYGm1vMJ0). Thanks for the reminder to watch it again!
tricky_colour
21/05/2016, 2:56 AM
What was it Wilde said? There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. Shaw-ly some mistake?
There is only one thing worse than playing squash together and that is playing it by yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxXW6tfl2Y0
TheOneWhoKnocks
22/05/2016, 12:18 PM
Long linked with Leicester and Liverpool.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool-ready-to-do-battle-with-leicester-for-shane-long-34735770.html
29 years old and two years left on his contract. Surely Southampton would consider it. Then again they paid 10 million for him so it would probably take 15m to sell him and I can't see teams paying out that much.
Conte pinpoints Long, Coleman and O'Shea as Ireland's most dangerous players.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/italy-boss-is-well-aware-of-the-dangers-posed-by-shane-long-seamus-coleman-and-john-oshea/79076
Stuttgart88
22/05/2016, 1:06 PM
[I]Conte pinpoints Long, Coleman and O'Shea as Ireland's most dangerous players.
At which end?
TheOneWhoKnocks
22/05/2016, 11:48 PM
Koeman selects Long as Southampton player of the season.
http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20160522-ronald-koeman-shane-long-southampton-player-of-the-season-3120588.aspx
Long linked with Leicester and Liverpool.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool-ready-to-do-battle-with-leicester-for-shane-long-34735770.html
29 years old and two years left on his contract. Surely Southampton would consider it. Then again they paid 10 million for him so it would probably take 15m to sell him and I can't see teams paying out that much.
Conte pinpoints Long, Coleman and O'Shea as Ireland's most dangerous players.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/italy-boss-is-well-aware-of-the-dangers-posed-by-shane-long-seamus-coleman-and-john-oshea/79076
Miguel Delaney running this story. Haven't a clue how reliable he is.
jbyrne
23/05/2016, 9:41 AM
Miguel Delaney running this story. Haven't a clue how reliable he is.
99% of transfer rumours are made up
Olé Olé
23/05/2016, 11:58 AM
I think they'd both be good moves for him. Leicester are the champs and will be in the Champions League. Liverpool are a huge club, suited to Long's style of play and should be very good next season with Klopp.
Problem is, he's clearly rated by Koeman now. Has progressed under Koeman and the coaches hugely in the past year. He could improve further with another year but he'll be 30 then. Tough one, if the rumours are true.
tricky_colour
24/05/2016, 12:19 AM
Long linked with Leicester and Liverpool.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool-ready-to-do-battle-with-leicester-for-shane-long-34735770.html
29 years old and two years left on his contract. Surely Southampton would consider it. Then again they paid 10 million for him so it would probably take 15m to sell him and I can't see teams paying out that much.
Conte pinpoints Long, Coleman and O'Shea as Ireland's most dangerous players.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/italy-boss-is-well-aware-of-the-dangers-posed-by-shane-long-seamus-coleman-and-john-oshea/79076
He would certainly fit pretty well into Leicester's hard working fast breaking style of play.
TheOneWhoKnocks
27/05/2016, 7:35 PM
Long picked a good time to score.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2016/euro-2016-teams/republic-of-ireland/is-mauricio-pochettino-weighing-up-a-summer-move-for-irelands-shane-long-34752916.html
tricky_colour
28/05/2016, 1:24 AM
It is quite flattering that the top two premiership clubs are showing an interest in him.
DeLorean
28/05/2016, 8:31 AM
Why, was Wenger there too? :p
sadloserkid
31/05/2016, 8:34 AM
It is quite flattering that the top two premiership clubs are showing an interest in him.
And Liverpool as well apparently. :)
Stuttgart88
31/05/2016, 9:13 AM
Sky were saying that Spurs were there to run the eye over Janssen.
dr_peepee
31/05/2016, 9:30 AM
They were sitting with Pat Dolan though.... If that's significant.
Lionel Ritchie
31/05/2016, 10:29 AM
Shane long needs to grow the hair a bit, start wearing a hairband, a snood and gloves all season if he's to intensify Arsenals interest.
TheOneWhoKnocks
31/05/2016, 5:47 PM
Shane long needs to grow the hair a bit, start wearing a hairband, a snood and gloves all season if he's to intensify Arsenals interest.
This comment.
DeLorean
05/06/2016, 6:49 PM
The making of a tip-top striker (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/shane-long-the-making-of-a-tip-top-striker-403201.html)
Stuttgart88
05/06/2016, 7:20 PM
Isn't Long saying himself what MON and others were criticised for saying?
paul_oshea
09/06/2016, 8:21 AM
Well reared down to earth country lad.
http://www.the42.ie/shane-long-euro-2016-feature-2809714-Jun2016/
Charlie Darwin
09/06/2016, 10:29 AM
Good Catholic boy.
BonnieShels
10/06/2016, 2:50 AM
Do we want him heading off to Everton?
Olé Olé
10/06/2016, 9:51 PM
Do we want him heading off to Everton?
I wouldn't complain. He's come on a lot under Koeman and his coaches this season. I assume they're following him to Everton.
OwlsFan
11/07/2016, 9:07 AM
Sky had their usual space filler stats this time about Euro 2016. They including such fascinating statistics as who had the most dribbles in the box (open to misinterpretation). Anyway, the one that caught my eye was "Who gave away the most fouls" and our own Shane came in 5th place. He did seem to be pinged a lot for what looked like dubious decisions but I wonder does this stat indicate a certain frustration for Shane in the tournament as he strove to make an impact?
Stuttgart88
11/07/2016, 10:45 AM
He has a habit of cornering defenders and then, while they are struggling, instead of letting them try and turn and then block them he just continues into the back of them. This makes it too easy for them.
DeLorean
11/07/2016, 10:54 AM
In his defence, the ref gave a decision against him in the Belgium game when he just left the two defenders compete for a header against each other. It was surreal.
TheOneWhoKnocks
21/07/2016, 8:13 PM
The women of Southampton rejoice.
https://twitter.com/SouthamptonFC/status/756217183093436416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
New four year deal for Long.
OwlsFan
30/08/2016, 9:15 AM
I was looking at his record on Wikipedia. He's nothing but amazingly consistent: Pretty much 1 goal for every 4 games he plays no matter whether it's club or country.
DeLorean
30/08/2016, 9:20 AM
Yeah, consistent in an overall sense, but he's fairly streaky too I think. As in, he seems to go on little runs where he'd score four in five or five in six, but then have a drought of ten games or more, like he appears to be on at the moment. Was he dropped at the weekend or carrying a knock I wonder?
TheOneWhoKnocks
30/08/2016, 1:37 PM
I was looking at his record on Wikipedia. He's nothing but amazingly consistent: Pretty much 1 goal for every 4 games he plays no matter whether it's club or country.
Closer to 1 goal in every 3 games when you factor in starts.
Then there is the fact that he doesn't rely solely on goals and also contributes greatly to overall play.
I'd imagine it affects ones confidence when you know you are going to get dropped after 2 or 3 games when you don't score.
Perhaps the reason Graziano Pelle flourished is because Southampton kept faith in him even after (twice) going on runs of not scoring in 14 or 15 odd games.
Stuttgart88
10/09/2016, 6:15 PM
Fluffed two good chances at 1-1 away to Arsenal today. Must be the club's mismanagement of him.
TheOneWhoKnocks
18/09/2016, 2:31 PM
Incorrectly booked for simulation when he should have had a penalty, and incorrectly had a perfectly good goal disallowed.
56: The decision to remove Long has raised a few eyebrows. The forward had been causing all sorts of problems with his pace in behind.
http://www.skysports.com/football/soton-vs-swansea/356381
Long off not Redmond?
Wouldn't have taken Long off. Redmond proving to be undroppable in league games.
Long off ???
FFS.
They only watch him every week though, so what would they know?
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57145-Saints-vs-Swansea-match-thread/page3#.V96kiq2PG-c
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