LOI In Europe 2021

[EatYerGreens]

The Dundalk Vitesse game last night was mental. Highly entertaining stuff, and a huge missed opportunity for the league that it wasn't on TV.

How Dundalk didn't get a second goal at the end I don't know. Had plenty of genuine chances, though all seemed to be straight at the keeper.

For an Irish club to have a Dutch team on the rack like that so late in a game shows the progress our league is making in fitness, quality and confidence in Europe (despite what the begrudgers claim).

[Eminence Grise]

It's a strange feeling to be disappointed for two teams than with them, but Bohs and Dundalk (Rovers, too, though they had a happier result) really showed how far belief, discipline and professionalism can bring a team - and a good sprinkling of young talent that speaks volumes for the quality of coaching. All three make the international team pale in comparison - it makes me think that instead of calling up players from League 1 to pad out squads we should be calling up domestic players who have shown they can go toe to toe with perceived betters. Not wholesale call-ups, but a sprinkle of caps among players who, let's face it, wouldn't get their knickers in a twist playing Gibraltar, Andorra, Luxembourg, or Qatar and haven't been polluted by the sense of gloom that seems to have been hanging over the national squad since Trappatoni's bleak assessment of its quality, would seem to be justifiable.

[Nesta99]

Just saw this angle showing Duffy as clearly being onside for the goal he had disallowed 40 seconds into the game. Brilliant ball from Patching it was and a great finish from Duffy. Who knows how the game would’ve gone if Dundalk had the lead

https://twitter.com/jamesrogersie/status/1425951380632649729?s=21

Officials must have bee Dudelange fans - its Bohs fault!! Its very hard not to be disappointed today considering the overall performance but the bottom line is we were beaten and out. We gave ourselves so much to do last night but you could also look at the last minute goal conceded away, and that inexplicable offside decision - hell of a performance, had a good go but the overall context has to include lapses along with plaudits. Maybe a blessing in the long run when we need to get things right domestically, we can still make it count for something if we carry that performance in to the remainder of the league and the cup.

[DCWA]

it makes me think that instead of calling up players from League 1 to pad out squads we should be calling up domestic players who have shown they can go toe to toe with perceived betters. Not wholesale call-ups, but a sprinkle of caps among players who, let's face it, wouldn't get their knickers in a twist playing Gibraltar, Andorra, Luxembourg, or Qatar.

We have been doing just that have we not?

[Nesta99]

It's a strange feeling to be disappointed for two teams than with them, but Bohs and Dundalk (Rovers, too, though they had a happier result) really showed how far belief, discipline and professionalism can bring a team - and a good sprinkling of young talent that speaks volumes for the quality of coaching. All three make the international team pale in comparison - it makes me think that instead of calling up players from League 1 to pad out squads we should be calling up domestic players who have shown they can go toe to toe with perceived betters. Not wholesale call-ups, but a sprinkle of caps among players who, let's face it, wouldn't get their knickers in a twist playing Gibraltar, Andorra, Luxembourg, or Qatar and haven't been polluted by the sense of gloom that seems to have been hanging over the national squad since Trappatoni's bleak assessment of its quality, would seem to be justifiable.

My dyed in the wool Kilkenny mad hurling uncle made a very similar comment last night, he actually enjoyed watching 'that soccer' compared to the years of dross by the Republic of Ireland. Tbh I think Stephen Kenny would agree also but he has to be in self preservation mode - can you imagine some of those international results, albeit a complete rethinking of how that team plays, if there were LoI players taking up slots in the squad.

[paul_oshea]

Well with clubs like Spurs, Roma, Galatasary, Basel, Anderlecht, Copenhagen and Vitesse in it, I'd say the TV rights won't be an issue.

I can't see the likes of Roma or spurs taking this too seriously. It's third tier European football. The other clubs mentioned are hardly massive tv money spinners. It's the big leagues that draw interest I know but it's a handful who'll probably play their 'b' team

[paul_oshea]

The Dundalk Vitesse game last night was mental. Highly entertaining stuff, and a huge missed opportunity for the league that it wasn't on TV.

How Dundalk didn't get a second goal at the end I don't know. Had plenty of genuine chances, though all seemed to be straight at the keeper.

For an Irish club to have a Dutch team on the rack like that so late in a game shows the progress our league is making in fitness, quality and confidence in Europe (despite what the begrudgers claim).

The one thing that stuck out here for me though in terms of differences was the physicality of paok to bohs players. The bohs lads are young I know but they had that athletic gaa build about them, whereas paok look like physically imposing men on them, and I'm not racial stereotyping here as I'm aware they had a lot of black players but that zikovic and pole were all big strong looking guys.

[EatYerGreens]

I can't see the likes of Roma or spurs taking this too seriously. It's third tier European football. The other clubs mentioned are hardly massive tv money spinners. It's the big leagues that draw interest I know but it's a handful who'll probably play their 'b' team

Clubs will take European football seriously - as it's about the money, recruitment and access to the bigger UEFA tournaments. Whether they do or not doesn't matter, as the TV broadcasters won't wait to see what teams the managers pick before deciding whether or not to air them. The rights are sorted way before that.

Turkey has the joint-highest population in Europe (ignoring Russia, most of which is in Asia. A bit loike Turkey really ;) ) and Galatasary are their biggest club. There is also a large Turkish diaspora in places like Germany and England. So don't underestimate the appeal of their games being broadcast.

The group stages will be on TV in the relevant countries. There is no doubt about that.

[Eminence Grise]

We have been doing just that have we not?

Sporadically, e.g. Mandroiu and Talbot, when it might appear we've run out of L1 players! And then we don't play them, so all they get is a few training sessions, and we don't deepen the pool. It's no more than saying you're needed to pad out the five a sides in traning but a game? No chance.


My dyed in the wool Kilkenny mad hurling uncle made a very similar comment last night, he actually enjoyed watching 'that soccer' compared to the years of dross by the Republic of Ireland. Tbh I think Stephen Kenny would agree also but he has to be in self preservation mode - can you imagine some of those international results, albeit a complete rethinking of how that team plays, if there were LoI players taking up slots in the squad.

I genuinely think some LoI players may have more fight in them than some players he's used. There are a few senior internationals trading on past reputations at this stage who look jaded and uninterested. McEleney, Duffy, Scales - I wouldn't be fearful of one or two on the pitch against the bottom seeds, or in a friendly. Portugal might be too soon, though!

[pineapple stu]

Clubs will take European football seriously - as it's about the money, recruitment and access to the bigger UEFA tournaments. Whether they do or not doesn't matter, as the TV broadcasters won't wait to see what teams the managers pick before deciding whether or not to air them. The rights are sorted way before that.

Turkey has the joint-highest population in Europe (ignoring Russia, most of which is in Asia) and Galatasary are their biggest club. There is also a large Turkish diaspora in places like Germany and England. So don't underestimate the appeal of their games being broadcast.

The group stages will be on TV in the relevant countries. There is no doubt about that.

Some clubs will take it seriously - those medium-sized clubs who now have a genuine chance at going deep into Europe like Galatasaray, as you mention.

Others won't too much. It's €3m for the group stages - but it's €2m for every place in the Premier League. If an injury in the group stages means you drop two places in the Premier League, you're losing money. If it means Spurs drop from fourth to sixth, you're losing millions. We've seen this before with English teams in particular and the sides they field in the Europa League.

Yes, there'll be interest in the games. But they're going head-to-head with the Europa League (5:30/8pm kick-offs on Thursdays), so the question really is how much extra interest the Conference League will generate.

(BTW, 80% of Russia's population lives in Europe. And population leads to money, not empty square miles of course)

[EatYerGreens]

Some clubs will take it seriously - those medium-sized clubs who now have a genuine chance at going deep into Europe like Galatasaray, as you mention.

Others won't too much. It's €3m for the group stages - but it's €2m for every place in the Premier League. If an injury in the group stages means you drop two places in the Premier League, you're losing money. If it means Spurs drop from fourth to sixth, you're losing millions. We've seen this before with English teams in particular and the sides they field in the Europa League.

Yes, there'll be interest in the games. But they're going head-to-head with the Europa League (5:30/8pm kick-offs on Thursdays), so the question really is how much extra interest the Conference League will generate.

(BTW, 80% of Russia's population lives in Europe. And population leads to money, not empty square miles of course)

Will Spurs take the Conference group stages seriously ? Hard to tell.

Will their games be televised in England anyway regardless ? Undoubtedly. Even if only on Channel 5 (Though I'd expect one of the Sky channels to want them).

[pineapple stu]

And will the competition generate that much extra money given that (a) it's clashing with the Europa League and (b) Spurs would almost certainly have reached the EL group stage anyway?

[sbgawa]

Winning a European Tournament is a rare and wonderful thing even for the biggest clubs.
Also whoever wins the conference is automatically qualified for the Europa League Group stages next year.
For sure the likes of Spurs will manage their squad in the early games and try to coast through the groups into the knock out stages but they have the squads to do it.
Look at Arsenal last year a reserve team playing that were almost on a par with a miss firing first team.
I'm just praying we get there

Re will it generate more money given its clashing with the EL?
It will undoubtedly generate some extra revenue as TV companies (even RTE) will give money to televise games featuring top or mid level teams but that's not even really the point.
The CL TV money from having more matches with bigger teams and less minnows involved is much greater so the ECL and EL are effectively just the support act for the CL and support acts dont have to cover the costs just keep the audience entertained before the main event while being subsidised from the top table.

[kksaints]

Winning a European Tournament is a rare and wonderful thing even for the biggest clubs.
Also whoever wins the conference is automatically qualified for the Europa League Group stages next year.
For sure the likes of Spurs will manage their squad in the early games and try to coast through the groups into the knock out stages but they have the squads to do it.
Look at Arsenal last year a reserve team playing that were almost on a par with a miss firing first team.
I'm just praying we get there

Re will it generate more money given its clashing with the EL?
It will undoubtedly generate some extra revenue as TV companies (even RTE) will give money to televise games featuring top or mid level teams but that's not even really the point.
The CL TV money from having more matches with bigger teams and less minnows involved is much greater so the ECL and EL are effectively just the support act for the CL and support acts dont have to cover the costs just keep the audience entertained before the main event while being subsidised from the top table.

Virgin Media have the rights for the conference league in Ireland so if Rovers go through they'll be broadcast there.

[Knocklyonhoop]

I thought the conference league was a way of clearing out teams from the weaker leagues earlier to make Europa / CL qualifiers more attractive. But guaranteeing money for the tournament (presumably some diverted from europa / CL?) is effectively keeping them happy

[EatYerGreens]

Virgin Media have the rights for the conference league in Ireland so if Rovers go through they'll be broadcast there.

Which is the point. These things are tied up way in advance - before it's even known which teams will be in it nevermind what squad pick they'll have for it. But TV companies are still willing to pay for it. Because European club football undoubtedly has broadcast value. Obviously the CL will be worth more than the Conference in that regard, but that's not exactly news to anyone.

[Buller]

I thought the conference league was a way of clearing out teams from the weaker leagues earlier to make Europa / CL qualifiers more attractive. But guaranteeing money for the tournament (presumably some diverted from europa / CL?) is effectively keeping them happy

Yeah it streamlines the EL (48 teams down to 32) but adds 32 with the ECL.

So 16 extra european group stage places in total for lower placed leagues that can qualify through Champions Pathway. Thats 16 tranches of €3m to all the lower/mid tier leagues in Europe that probably wouldn't have gotten before.

Rovers would have been out in the old system having lost our first CL qualifier round to Slovan for instance.

Thats my understanding of it at least!

[pineapple stu]

Which is the point. These things are tied up way in advance - before it's even known which teams will be in it nevermind what squad pick they'll have for it. But TV companies are still willing to pay for it. Because European club football undoubtedly has broadcast value. Obviously the CL will be worth more than the Conference in that regard, but that's not exactly news to anyone.


But it's not the full point. Paul's concern was about the long-term viability of the competition. Yes, rights have been sold, but for how much? Is a competition with few big names which directly clashes with a bigger competition of the same format going to bring in enough money to wipe its feet? If it won't, will it be worth UEFA's while keeping it going?

Irish/Latvian/Luxembourg sides in the group stage isn't a great USP for most people

Of course, if kicking the smaller clubs out of the Champions*/Europa League bumps up the global TV value by €200m a year, then you can fob off the smaller clubs with a competition that loses €100m a year. (Hypothetical numbers of course)

* - although actually, this hasn't changed the Champions League at all as far as I can see.

[Philosophizer]

Clubs will take European football seriously.
I'd agree with this. English clubs not caring about the EL group stages is very much the exception. I've always got the impression that pretty much every other country is very seriously about European matches, even if it's "just" the EL group stages.

PL teams have become so rich that EL groups don't mean much but for almost every other league that's not the case. Spanish teams have always taken the EL very seriously and they've probably been the 2nd richest league after the PL for the last while.

[EatYerGreens]

But it's not the full point. Paul's concern was about the long-term viability of the competition. Yes, rights have been sold, but for how much? Is a competition with few big names which directly clashes with a bigger competition of the same format going to bring in enough money to wipe its feet? If it won't, will it be worth UEFA's while keeping it going?

Irish/Latvian/Luxembourg sides in the group stage isn't a great USP for most people

Of course, if kicking the smaller clubs out of the Champions*/Europa League bumps up the global TV value by €200m a year, then you can fob off the smaller clubs with a competition that loses €100m a year. (Hypothetical numbers of course)

* - although actually, this hasn't changed the Champions League at all as far as I can see.

You'll have to lend us all your crystal ball when you're finished with it :cool: Beyond that, it's a pointless debate to be pursuing at this stage.

[pineapple stu]

I'd agree with this. English clubs not caring about the EL group stages is very much the exception. I've always got the impression that pretty much every other country is very seriously about European matches, even if it's "just" the EL group stages.

PL teams have become so rich that EL groups don't mean much but for almost every other league that's not the case. Spanish teams have always taken the EL very seriously and they've probably been the 2nd richest league after the PL for the last while.

While that's probably true, it's still likely to be another little hit for the rights value.

Prize money for the Conference League is around €200m (CL is around a billion). OK, some of that is a saving from the EL. But still, the question as to whether a third-tier tournament which directly clashes with the second-tier one is viable is a valid one, I think.


Beyond that, it's a pointless debate to be pursuing at this stage.
Welcome to the internet; you must be new here.

You were quite happy pursuing the debate yourself before now.

[sbgawa]

UEFA and the European Clubs Association have been trying to filter money down to the lower leagues and this was one way of doing it and also trying to appease the top top teams by making the CL more Elite as they were always threatening to pull away and form a super league (and then did try to).
Its not a completely binary issue in terms of making money / not making money and is seen as a redistribution in some ways and part of UEFA's overall mission of widening the Football pyramid.
Other than the Bundesliga redistribution in Europe has been fought by the other big leagues and is one of the reasons the top top clubs arent happy with UEFA as they want redistribution as well but in the other direction :eek: more upwards

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that does make some sense alright. OK, it has the starting point that UEFA give a damn about the leagues in Ireland and Malta and Gibraltar, but then the smaller clubs already get €200k+ per tie they play, which is way more than they actually contribute to the competitions, and all credit to UEFA for that.

Although you get the feeling then that the Conference League is always at potential risk of the bigger clubs getting more power and stopping it. (You can see a future pawn in the Superleague game being "OK, we'll cancel the Conference League if ye'll stay").

[sbgawa]

Yeah, that does make some sense alright. OK, it has the starting point that UEFA give a damn about the leagues in Ireland and Malta and Gibraltar, but then the smaller clubs already get €200k+ per tie they play, which is way more than they actually contribute to the competitions, and all credit to UEFA for that.

Although you get the feeling then that the Conference League is always at potential risk of the bigger clubs getting more power and stopping it. (You can see a future pawn in the Superleague game being "OK, we'll cancel the Conference League if ye'll stay").

I actually think its more likely to be make the EL and ECL bigger and th Champions league (AKA Superleague) smaller.
The recent breakaway attempt went so badly though that it might be put off for a while

[Nesta99]

I actually think its more likely to be make the EL and ECL bigger and th Champions league (AKA Superleague) smaller.
The recent breakaway attempt went so badly though that it might be put off for a while

I think thats the nail on the head but CL bigger in potential revenue, The ECL itself isnt going to generate much in terms of revenue but that is being balanced by eroding numbers in the upper tiers meaning more regular games between top sides, which will likely increase revenue overall. Bar having an interesting in a particular club for quite a while people only really tuned in to even CL during the knockout phases as football fatigue had kicked in and as for EL the round of 32 people skimmed results also. Tricking with formats, changing the UEFA Cup to EL and now this seems like trying to accommodate a few of the biggest leagues but leave something for the best of the rest too. The ECL seems like a supercharged Intertoto cup, but if we as a league can benefit with access to all 3 tiers thats fine - better than when champions couldnt get in to champions league. Maybe wishful traditionalist thinking but as a competition that could possibly stand alone and garner general interest, reduce numbers in other comps would be the reintroduction of the CWC. Clubs from the likes of the EPL will try and coast the ECL with reserves and youths until they look like they might win it ala League Cup. One way to mitigate against that would be to have winners qualify for CL and maybe r-up/semi finalists going in to EL. Wont matter to us much but getting clubs to buy in to the newer structures is as important as grabbing the publics and broadcasters interest. If not like the old intertoto clubs like Spurs could opt not to compete except to be able to get reserves and injured players competative football.

[legendz]

The Conference League ticks a few boxes for UEFA and the bigger clubs. Smaller clubs are kept out of the EL to make it more attractive for bigger clubs. Smaller clubs benefit from more games offered in the Conference. 3rd placed teams parachute in after the Europa group stage to offer them the chance of more financial gain. In a few years, the likes of Tottenham will start in the group stage as opposed to the playoff round. UEFA have been down this road before. Bigger clubs get more guarantees and less uncertainty.

[ontheotherhand]

Just enjoy it while it's here folks and tell your friends it's great. Who knows, maybe people will get on board. It doesn't need to be on prime time Sky to survive and if it starts generating a bit of buzz in countries who've historically been starved of the romance of a European run then it may find a home on ESPN 8 "the Ocho" or a renewed Eirsport and that would be fine by me.

I sense a growing dissatisfaction with "elite football" among the people I know. Maybe there's room for something more genuine. Maybe even Irish people will start looking at the matchup between their best and Greece's best as more interesting that some oil baron's playthings facing off against each other. Bohs ticket sales would give at least a small indication that there's a buzz growing. We really need to stop judging success on the basis of whether or not English club teams are involved. Nobody who loves football really wants the Super League and that's the bed they've made.

[ToberonaTornado]

so close for Dundalk on Thursday and in all my 14 Euro campaigns following them that performance was right up with the best.

Dummigan is some player. But every player was on bomb thursday night.

[sbgawa]

No word yet on the crowd for the Playoff round.
I'm assuming it will be a "pilot" event at 1500, no tickets on sale yet

[Dalymountrower]

Did RTE commit to showing the play off?

[sbgawa]

They have no excuse with the Olympics over.
Unless there is an under 21 minor handball final on somewhere that night

[WeAreRovers]

Away game on Virgin Media, home game on RTÉ2 -

Shamrock Rovers v Flora Tallinn to be shown live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player

RTÉ Sport announced today (Monday 16 August, 2021) that Shamrock Rovers UEFA Europa Conference League play-off Round second leg against Flora Tallinn of Estonia on Thursday 26 August will be live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.

Having defeated Albanian champions Teuta in the 3rd Qualifying Round, reigning SSE Airtricity League champions Rovers face Estonian League winners Flora Tallinn in the play-off round for a place in the group stage of the inaugural UEFA Europa Conference League.

With the first leg taking place in Tallinn this Thursday, the return in Tallaght Stadium on Thursday week will decide who marches on to the group stage. The game in Tallaght kicks-off at 7.45pm, live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.

[nigel-harps1954]

Rovers confirm a 3,500 capacity for the game.

[placid casual]

And attendance capacity increased to 3,500 for the game. All members and 2021/2020 season ticket holders should get in now. Some tickets may even go on general sale I'd say.

[Philosophizer]

Pleasantly surprised by rte

[sbgawa]

3500 that's great news, hopefully the start of something more sensible in terms of attendance numbers for a sport that isn't bog ball

[Stuttgart88]

Away game on Virgin Media, home game on RTÉ2 -

Shamrock Rovers v Flora Tallinn to be shown live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player

RTÉ Sport announced today (Monday 16 August, 2021) that Shamrock Rovers UEFA Europa Conference League play-off Round second leg against Flora Tallinn of Estonia on Thursday 26 August will be live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.

Having defeated Albanian champions Teuta in the 3rd Qualifying Round, reigning SSE Airtricity League champions Rovers face Estonian League winners Flora Tallinn in the play-off round for a place in the group stage of the inaugural UEFA Europa Conference League.

With the first leg taking place in Tallinn this Thursday, the return in Tallaght Stadium on Thursday week will decide who marches on to the group stage. The game in Tallaght kicks-off at 7.45pm, live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.Us foreigners can still stream via SRFCTV/Inplayer though, yes? I'm UK based.

[WeAreRovers]

Us foreigners can still stream via SRFCTV/Inplayer though, yes? I'm UK based.

Won't be blocked on RTÉ Player, should be available everywhere outside Estonia by clicking 'Live TV' button.

[sbgawa]

Tickets for sale on the Rovers website €20 or €10 for kids.
got mine sorted anyway :)

Edit, it's behind a wall for members and st holders until Friday.

[pineapple stu]

In other news, Sheriff Tiraspol - who lost to Dundalk last year - beat Dinamo Zagreb 3-0 tonight and have one foot in the Champions League group stages.

Hope for Rovers et al - and hilarious to see it happen when UEFA change the competition to reduce smaller clubs' chances of getting in

[paul_oshea]

Not sure what Kelly expects uefs to do when their own organisations aren't supporting them or funding them properly. Always find Lisa Fallon very articulate and not just some knee bending to gender balance like the BBC
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0817/1241402-kelly-european-rewards-should-benefit-all-loi-clubs/

[pineapple stu]

"European rewards should benefit all LOI clubs" - but it does, through the solidarity funding, which varies depending on how far clubs get in Europe.

[Philosophizer]

Sounds like Kelly is asking for something that already exists.
You'd think he'd have known about the solidarity funding.

[pateen]

Will the game be available for stream on Loi TV?
Asking as an overseas viewer

[John83]

Sounds like Kelly is asking for something that already exists.
You'd think he'd have known about the solidarity funding.
Maybe it's no harm to have voices calling for spreading the money wider to counterbalance the top clubs insatiable desire to lock it all up for themselves.

[Finlay Harp]

How much is a solidarity payment worth?

[ontheotherhand]

Not sure what Kelly expects uefs to do when their own organisations aren't supporting them or funding them properly. Always find Lisa Fallon very articulate and not just some knee bending to gender balance like the BBC
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0817/1241402-kelly-european-rewards-should-benefit-all-loi-clubs/

Am I right in saying that this is the national broadcaster saying more should be done to help fund development in the league of Ireland on the show they cancelled because there wasn't enough interest on account of the fact they never generated any when broadcasting the games they never paid the clubs for?

[Philosophizer]

How much is a solidarity payment worth?
Well it changes every year, depending on how well our teams do in Europe. The better they do, the more we get. This article outlines that in 2017 and 2018 it was 825K, while in 2019 it was 750000.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/league-ireland-clubs-miss-out-21897998.amp

[pineapple stu]

Wasn't there talk that if Dundalk reached the CL group stages in 2016, it could have gone up to €3m or something?

is it only Premier Division clubs that share it though?

[Philosophizer]

Wasn't there talk that if Dundalk reached the CL group stages in 2016, it could have gone up to €3m or something?

is it only Premier Division clubs that share it though?
Yep the 3M figure is correct if they had got into the CL group stages.

Not sure if it goes to prem division only.