LOI In Europe 2021 [Archive] - Page 29

pineapple stu

26/08/2021, 8:38 PM

Tbf to Rovers Flora were clearly underestimated on here (and in the bookies as has been touched upon) they are a decent side, a bit better than Rovers or any other LOI side imo regardless of the lack of depth in their domestic league.

They won’t be pushovers in their ECL group either, they know what they are at.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Flora aren't great. How many of their goals were gifts from Rovers? Today's is the obvious one, but in Tallinn Rovers were passing straight to them, were falling over in the box, weren't tracking back at all.

The Estonian league - average crowd 400 - is 53rd in UEFA for a reason. I didn't see anything from Flora in either leg to indicate that were anything other than a standardly-competent pro side.

This was a very winnable tie and to lose home and away is as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in a while.

Straightstory

26/08/2021, 8:39 PM

Comprehensively outplayed for 180 minutes by a team from one of the worst ranked countries in all of Europe. Rovers, favorites to be head and shoulders above all the other teams in our League by season's end.

One word for it: Embarrassing.

Dalymountrower

26/08/2021, 8:39 PM

Jaysus imagine how bad bohs dundalk and the rest of the league must be if rovers are this bad. Top of the league !!
Deflect all you like, ****ed live on the telly twice by a tuppence hapeny team from the Baltic.5-2 ffs.

DCWA

26/08/2021, 8:40 PM

You can harp on about the league and about it being a winnable tie all you want but if it was winnable beforehand it doesn�t look it now.

I think Flora can feel they won that pretty handily all in.

CorribsideSteve

26/08/2021, 8:43 PM

I don't necessarily agree with that. Flora aren't great. How many of their goals were gifts from Rovers? Today's is the obvious one, but in Tallinn Rovers were passing straight to them, were falling over in the box, weren't tracking back at all.

The Estonian league - average crowd 400 - is 53rd in UEFA for a reason. I didn't see anything from Flora in either leg to indicate that were anything other than a standardly-competent pro side.

This was a very winnable tie and to lose home and away is as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in a while.

Which is precisely why it's concerning that Rovers were so easily brushed aside. Our League winners last year, and this year most likely, are actually not good enough for Europe, at the lowest entry point, with a favourable set of draws.

wonder88

26/08/2021, 8:43 PM

That was really poor from Shamrock R. well off for what is required to make progress at this European level.

ontheotherhand

26/08/2021, 8:47 PM

Fair play to them. Well organized outfit. 10 clean sheets in 17 in their league so you knew they'd be able to limit any side in terms of chances. We had enough to get the 3 goals we needed but when we didn't score while we had that spell of cutting them open in the first half, I figured they'd get to halftime and shut up shop. Easy for them from there really even if they didn't threaten much. They didn't have to of course. The goal obviously kills us and it's further evidence that Mannus has gone down a level. Still a great shot stopper and organizer but his concentration is slipping. One of a few faces that will need to change for any run in Europe next season. Champions Path or no.

What's frustrating is that we played like we played in the early stages of the league, particularly in the first leg. Silly errors, a lack of midfield cover and nothing happening up front. It was never going to be good enough in Europe and to be honest, I'd been dreading the games. We'd started to click leading into them though so it's poor to regress. If we don't get back to where we were in the 4-5 games leading up to Europe, the league is wide open and the cup....well....Sunday should be fun.

Til next year then.

nigel-harps1954

26/08/2021, 8:48 PM

I can only hope Shamrock Rovers are as crap next Friday night as they were tonight. That was woeful.

Calcio Jack

26/08/2021, 8:50 PM

Bradley as he has since he took over will learn from this and we�ll be the better for it next time � Europe really exposed how much we need a fit wide player (Farrugia) as we were just too ponderous for this this level �. we move on so now bring on Sunday

PartySaint

26/08/2021, 8:52 PM

Pretty poor year for the league in Europe

Rovers only won one tie and that was against an Albanian side

Sligo, pathetic.

Dundalk beat Levadia as expected then lost to Vitnese as expected

Bohs beating the Icelandic team wasn�t a surprise, knocking Duderlange out was probably the only tie won by one of the teams that would be considered a decent win.

sbgawa

26/08/2021, 8:54 PM

Deflect all you like, ****ed live on the telly twice by a tuppence hapeny team from the Baltic.5-2 ffs.

As a fan of our feeder club I appreciate u need to enjoy these moments, maybe next year you might make the telly, if u qualify.
Rovers didn't co themselves justice but we will settle for winning the league and go again next year

nigel-harps1954

26/08/2021, 8:57 PM

Pretty poor year for the league in Europe

Rovers only won one tie and that was against an Albanian side

Sligo, pathetic.

Dundalk beat Levadia as expected then lost to Vitnese as expected

Bohs beating the Icelandic team wasn’t a surprise, knocking Duderlange out was probably the only tie won by one of the teams that would be considered a decent win.

Yet, it was one of our best ever years in terms of co-efficient..

PartySaint

26/08/2021, 8:59 PM

Yet, it was one of our best ever years in terms of co-efficient..

Viva La Conference League

pineapple stu

26/08/2021, 9:00 PM

Which is precisely why it's concerning that Rovers were so easily brushed aside. Our League winners last year, and this year most likely, are actually not good enough for Europe, at the lowest entry point, with a favourable set of draws.
Yeah, I agree.

Like, the argument about "Has the LoI improved" has to resurface now that another season is over, and I still don't think it has

Bohs v PAOK and Dundalk v Vitesse were more than respectable. Ok, three of the four ties could have ended 4-0 by the sounds of it - but they didn't. So there's shoots there.

Our coefficient this year is a record too. But really, we scored highly in part because we had the easiest set of draws the LoI has ever had in Europe - Wales, Luxembourg (a decent win, albeit overshadowed by a query over the side's finances) Iceland twice, Albania. And the same happened last year with Dundalk. The new format means coefficients are going to be higher. It doesn't mean we're improving.

Two of our sides were knocked out by countries ranked in the 50s - that's never happened before. Our respectable results were against sides 3-4 weeks away from the start of their season.

And this is all despite changing season specifically for European progress, and postponing games to give clubs an extra boost (which few other leagues do)

Excuses that Flora were underrated are really a bit minnowist for my liking. I think there's a lot to consider with this year's results

pineapple stu

26/08/2021, 9:04 PM

Yet, it was one of our best ever years in terms of co-efficient..
I think it's worth repeating that it'd want to be, given we faced Iceland, Iceland, Wales (and lower half sides too), Estonia, Estonia, Luxembourg and Albania.

We got a very lucky draw this year. That will translate to a higher coefficient

placid casual

26/08/2021, 9:21 PM

The only thing embarrsing is that Rovers team will win the league again this year without much challenges from anyone else in the league.
Must do better folks.

Rovers need a few changes in personnel for next year to make a better fist of Europe.
Great support from the Rovers fans, and a great send off for Liam Scales.
We'll Never Die.

pineapple stu

26/08/2021, 9:37 PM

No, losing home and away to an Estonian side is also pretty embarrassing.

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 9:41 PM

That was really poor from Shamrock R. well off for what is required to make progress at this European level.

The only thing embarrsing is that Rovers team will win the league again this year without much challenges from anyone else in the league.
Must do better folks.

Rovers need a few changes in personnel for next year to make a better fist of Europe.
Great support from the Rovers fans, and a great send off for Liam Scales.
We'll Never Die.

You keep telling yourself that. Another chance to bottle it again next year. A Bradserclass

sbgawa

26/08/2021, 9:46 PM

I'd be keeping an eye on Galway if I was you mcgonigle, they look like they could be competitive in the relegation play off. Hope you don't bottle it ;)

Calcio Jack

26/08/2021, 9:46 PM

You keep telling yourself that. Another chance to bottle it again next year. A Bradserclass

Having fallen to the relegation play off place and you have cheek to hector us about bottling �. Comedy gold that

sbgawa

26/08/2021, 9:51 PM

Get the buckets ready.

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 9:52 PM

Jaysus imagine how bad bohs dundalk and the rest of the league must be if rovers are this bad. Top of the league !!

Still out performed the so called standard bearers in Europe again. Rogers and Byrne rightly ripped into them.

Any take on the game or are you just happy to be the best of a bad bunch?

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 9:53 PM

That was really poor from Shamrock R. well off for what is required to make progress at this European level.

Get the buckets ready.

Empty Rovers tears out of them before sending them up please

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 9:56 PM

That was really poor from Shamrock R. well off for what is required to make progress at this European level.

Having fallen to the relegation play off place and you have cheek to hector us about bottling �. Comedy gold that

Every Dundalk fan will admit we're a mess. Any Rovers fans brave enough to admit that they embarrassed the league twice in a week?

ontheotherhand

26/08/2021, 9:56 PM

Still out performed the so called standard bearers in Europe again. Rogers and Byrne rightly ripped into them.

Any take on the game or are you just happy to be the best of a bad bunch?

Good luck in the ECL group stages.

sbgawa

26/08/2021, 10:07 PM

Every Dundalk fan will admit we're a mess. Any Rovers fans brave enough to admit that they embarrassed the league twice in a week?
Embarrassed the league.....hang on to your pearls love.
;).
I already said Rovers didn't do themselves justice....it happens.
At least we get to try again next year. Will u be in the league next year ?

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 10:21 PM

Embarrassed the league.....hang on to your pearls love.
;).
I already said Rovers didn't do themselves justice....it happens.
At least we get to try again next year. Will u be in the league next year ?

That's the consensus here, by the pundits and in the media. They won't use the word embarrassing but when they are talking about the second placed team in a poorly ranked league with moderate resources I think you can read between the lines.

Keep the deflection up lads.

sbgawa

26/08/2021, 10:31 PM

Deflection ....lol
Good luck in the relegation play off. Lol
How is abibi on taking corners ? As good as Rogers?

mcgonigle

26/08/2021, 10:47 PM

That was really poor from Shamrock R. well off for what is required to make progress at this European level.

Deflection ....lol
Good luck in the relegation play off. Lol
How is abibi on taking corners ? As good as Rogers?

As good as Mannus on tonight's performance.

You're deflecting because the only responses you have to criticism is to point out that your team is better than mine and you're top of the league.

Thanks for the well wishes. Get a good night's sleep it won't hurt as much in the morning

Kiki Balboa

27/08/2021, 8:46 AM

First, despite the result, it's been a very good year in Europe for Irish football. The amount of wins this year is far higher than expected in what was supposed to be a weak league. Beating the teams from leagues around us is clearly positive, and in plenty of other years, those wins could have been draws or losses.

I was not able to watch the game last night and only seen the goal, but who was the midfielder tracking the goalscorer? I couldn't make it out in the wee clip I'd seen. Was it Gary O'Neil? The serious lack of pace was really surprising and thought it was nearly as bad as the goalkeeping.

For Rovers, how many of their players are contracted next year? For an old team, their transfer policy of bringing in oldish players on multiyear contracts was surprising. I think you could really make the point that the so many late goals for Rovers this year has papered over a lot of cracks in the squad.

With Dundalk imploding, and Rovers looking very old, this off-season suggests possible one of the most open opportunities for the 'chasing pack' to become real contenders since the end of the 2012 season. If there ever was an offseason to be extra aggressive (in keeping players or getting new one in) for Derry, Bohs, Sligo and Pats, it would definitely be this one.

Dalymountrower

27/08/2021, 8:46 AM

pineapple stu

27/08/2021, 8:57 AM

That's a bit harsh to compare Pats v Legia (when Pats drew the away leg but ran out of steam at home, conceding three times in the last ten minutes) to Rovers losing home and away to an Estonian team who'd never won both legs of any tie before this year, and indeed the LoI had only lost 1 of 16 previous games against Estonian teams (you won't need me to remind you who that was! :p)

First, despite the result, it's been a very good year in Europe for Irish football. Beating the teams from leagues around us is clearly positive, and in plenty of other years, those wins could have been draws or losses.
We scored 50% from ten games against leagues ranked in the 50s (4 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats) - is that "clearly positive"?

Dalymountrower

27/08/2021, 9:16 AM

sbgawa

27/08/2021, 9:28 AM

I have been struggling to remember a worse League Champions performance in European competition over the last ten years than last nights debacle, Pats hammered 6-1 by Legia is up there , slightly better performance by Cork who were well beaten by a good Legia team in 2018.
Rovers (again) being beaten by another Baltic powerhouse, mighty Ekranas of Lithuania in 2013 stands out, although they did manage a plucky 0-0 draw at home.

(Cue Sbgawa and deflection squad referencing Bohs TNS/Icelandic part timers in the Europa League)

Every team is allowed a few bad games a season, i've said several times already Rovers didn't do themselves justice so i am not deflecting .
I am however enjoying throwing a few jabs at the feeder club supporters (Devoy on his way next reportedly) and the Relegation candidates whose supporters are revelling in Rovers losing.
I don't mind that though as i wouldn't like to see either win game changing amounts of money in Europe so would enjoy a PO defeat for them just as much.
Provided we win the league again our seeding next year should give us a great chance of giving group stages a real good shout.

Dalymountrower

27/08/2021, 9:44 AM

[QUOTE=sbgawa;2085668]Every team is allowed a few bad games a season, i've said several times already Rovers didn't do themselves justice so i am not deflecting .
I am however enjoying throwing a few jabs at the feeder club supporters (Devoy on his way next reportedly) /QUOTE]
There isnt a year goes by but that Rovers have had a fetish like need to poach a Bohs player to satiate the more feral of their fans.I have no doubt that attempts have been and are being made to tap up Devoy ,Coot, Burt, even Georgie Kelly.Thats what your club does, and has been doing for decades.
Liam O 'Brien, Pat Byrne Terry Eviston, Dave Connell Jacko Mc Donagh, Gino, and in recent times Watts, Lopez, Mandriou.
We are used to it, it ****es us off, but what can you do .When victories do come in those circumstances they are all the sweeter.
When Bohs poached Tony Grant , there were death threats and pigs heads hurled on the pitch!
Thankfully your club doesn't have 3 million from winning the game last night to fund the annual hunt and drive up costs for any other club competing to sign players.

Kiki Balboa

27/08/2021, 9:53 AM

We scored 50% from ten games against leagues ranked in the 50s (4 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats) - is that "clearly positive"?

I really don't get your negetivity to Irish teams in Europe. This time last year you were trying to find negatives in Dundalk knocking out Sheriff. What would be considered a 'positive' year in Europe for you?

If this year was the average European year for LOI, it would be ranked 31st in Europe, and apart from Sheriffs brillant run affecting Moldovas ranking, the only other league to score higher than us this year is Poland in 28th, and beyond that is Isreal in 22nd. Not a bad record after four qualifying rounds.

Three teams went through at least one tie, two teams went through twice (both of whom are midtable and worse and might not be in Europe next year). Home wins against Slovan Bratislava and PAOK plus an away draw against a team that finished 4th in the 7th ranked league in Europe. Against those 3 teams, LOI teams scored 7 times. Only Rovers performance in the last round is really the only thing to be be pessimistic about.

To me, arguments like this is like the bitter old man at the end of the bar that only speaks in complaints.

pineapple stu

27/08/2021, 10:11 AM

I really don't get your negetivity to Irish teams in Europe.
Well I've outlined why I don't agree with your "clearly positive" view. I'm not sure what's not to get, especially as you've not commented on anything in my post.

What would be considered a 'positive' year in Europe for you?
Fair question. You say that "If this year was the average European year for LOI, it would be ranked 31st in Europe" - but it wasn't an average year. It was a record year brought about by a very fortunate draw at key times, particularly for Bohs/Dundalk in the second round. The problem with comparing absolute coefficients (as I've said before on the thread) is that the win v Stjarnan was worth the same as the win v PAOK, so a fortunate draw can skew things.

But 31st is where we rank in terms of population (or I think we're 30th actually), so that really is where we should be targetting, especially as throughout Europe, western nations have an advantage over eastern ones of a similar population. I said earlier in thread that we should be looking to score 2.000 per year over a 5-year average, and that was poo-poohed as being unrealistic. That's two wins per team each year - surely that's not unrealistic though? And having seen how the new Conference League helps in terms of easier draws and extra chances for the champions, I think we should be targetting 2.500 on average.

For me, a key thing (mentioned by others in thread too) is consistency from year to year. There's no point getting carried away with a few wins when we lose to Lithuanian sides the next year (as too often happens - in fact, really only 2011/2016/2021 have been solid coefficient scores, which is very fortunate as the coefficients run on a 5-year cycle). The league needs more consistent results in Europe for me.

I don't agree Rovers v Flora was the only thing to be pessimistic about; Sligo v FH was bad too. Probably the best was Bohs v Dudelange. The games v PAOK and Vitesse - albeit again that three of them could easily have been 4/5-0 - were also positives. What would be good to see next season is (1) 2.500 again, (2) not losing to leagues ranked in the 50s, and (3) the start of a return to continual good results against leagues in the 30s, which is key but it's something we've really lost the knack of in the past decade or so.

EatYerGreens

27/08/2021, 11:24 AM

That flora manager is good. He knows what he's. This passing for passing sake is a disease entering Irish football that's come through To the national team now. Causing problems and losing games. It's a very worrying trend.

What's wrong with passing ? It's about keeping possession and waiting patiently for an opening/opportunity. What's the alternative - long balls up the pitch and the lottery of who gets to them first ?

wonder88

27/08/2021, 3:11 PM

The Flora manager is 2 years younger than S Bradley at Shamrock Rovers and seemed to have his team well organised last night. Are any LoI teams playing a 4-4-2 system these days, would it not be worth a try sometimes, especially at home in Europe.

ontheotherhand

27/08/2021, 4:53 PM

I have been struggling to remember a worse League Champions performance in European competition over the last ten years than last nights debacle, Pats hammered 6-1 by Legia is up there , slightly better performance by Cork who were well beaten by a good Legia team in 2018.
Rovers (again) being beaten by another Baltic powerhouse, mighty Ekranas of Lithuania in 2013 stands out, although they did manage a plucky 0-0 draw at home.

(Cue Sbgawa and deflection squad referencing Bohs TNS/Icelandic part timers in the Europa League)

What's it called when someone preemptively calls out the obvious rebuttal to their argument hoping that it removes the obvious rebuttal from the arsenal of the people they are trying to argue with?

We'll see how Flora do in the groups before we can accurately place Rover's exit on the pile of ****e European results by Irish clubs DR. It's unfortunate they won't be playing Anderlecht or CSKA Sofia as that was who the computer supply shop from Wales went on to lose to by a combined scoreline of 11-3 after knocking Bohs out 4-1 in the very first round. If they do get hockeyed about as TNS did, I'll be sure to come back to you for some soy based humble pie.

Philosophizer

27/08/2021, 6:05 PM

Are any LoI teams playing a 4-4-2 system these days, would it not be worth a try sometimes, especially at home in Europe.
It would be worth it if you had players who were suited to the system and had a bit of practice at it and were used to it.
It worked well for Flora for that reason, and mostly because they had Vassiljev who was just a higher standard than everyone else on the pitch.
I was actually thinking watching the rovers match that Gaffney and Greene might work well in a 442. Greene doess excellent work running into channels and linking with players. He might be more suited to playing beside a more traditional number 9 who stays in the box. Greene didn't seem to offer any goal threat as a lone striker at that level.

ontheotherhand

27/08/2021, 6:17 PM

Greene was there to open things up for a better midfield last season. He isn't as effective this year because our midfield clearly isn't as strong.

4-4-2 might pop up by default for us for a few weeks now that we have Grace, Hoare, Kavanagh, Farrugia, Grace and Scales gone......And I still wouldn't be sure of the 4 who would play.

Philosophizer

27/08/2021, 6:47 PM

That makes a lot of sense actually. I guess the idea was that Mondroiu and Towell would get a significant number of goals, especially Towell since his numbers were better than a striker in his Dundalk days.

Dalymountrower

27/08/2021, 9:09 PM

What's it called when someone preemptively calls out the obvious rebuttal to their argument hoping that it removes the obvious rebuttal from the arsenal of the people they are trying to argue with?

We'll see how Flora do in the groups before we can accurately place Rover's exit on the pile of ****e European results by Irish clubs DR. It's unfortunate they won't be playing Anderlecht or CSKA Sofia as that was who the computer supply shop from Wales went on to lose to by a combined scoreline of 11-3 after knocking Bohs out 4-1 in the very first round. If they do get hockeyed about as TNS did, I'll be sure to come back to you for some soy based humble pie.
League Champions, ie league standard bearers is the criteria I used, but you tumbled into computer supply shops etc anyway.
So can you remember league champions putting in a more embarrassing performance in Europe since Erkanas?