LOI In Europe 2021

[Dalymountrower]

Ok so what are you really saying?
Yeah I know , complimenting Rovers, it doesn't seem credible.

[SPXcyan]

Please don’t bother….. life’s too short


Couldn't agree more lad!

[wonder88]

Went up to the game in the Aviva on Tuesday. Got ticket outside thankfully, and fair play to Bohs for a great performance and result. They did look tired for the last 20 minutes and agree that subs should have been introduced earlier.
Great to be back at an elite sporting game/event, Galway v Tipp early March last year is a long time without.

[Straightstory]

Went up to the game in the Aviva on Tuesday. Got ticket outside thankfully, and fair play to Bohs for a great performance and result. They did look tired for the last 20 minutes and agree that subs should have been introduced earlier.
Great to be back at an elite sporting game/event, Galway v Tipp early March last year is a long time without.

Galway v Tipperary is not 'an elite sporting event'.

[oriel]

Nattestad the weak link in that defence. He's woeful.

Dan Cleary not far off coming back from injury, hopefully as soon as later in August, Sonni's time is up then.

Leahy has improved so much under VP, another good performance from him.

Magic stuff from McEleney, what a pass from Hoban for the second goal, also the cross from Ravis for the first goal, shades of Gannon to Fats 2018 cup final.

Overall a great result, I'd still have Vitesse as favs to advance, but maybe DFC have a 40/60 chance now.

[oriel]

Next week for the return ties the heat will be a huge factor, could be as high as 40c for Bohs in Greece, maybe 30+c for Rovers in Albania, and a balmy 17c for us in Tallafornia.

[yurt]

In coefficient land. In an ideal world if the league does trend upwards. I'd actually much prefer the league didn't jump straight up in to a position of having some clubs skipping straight in to round 2 for a couple of seasons, to allow clubs like Bohs, to build their individual coefficient and actually get themselves seeded in future years. You'd love to have a 5th qualifying spot really, but that will never happen unless we start trying to win the fair play league every season.



I just recently learned that individual club co-efficient is based on what round you've gotten to in the previous 5 years. Only the club co-efficient goes up and down depending on wins and draws. So by automatically getting through to round 2 it helps the club's individual co-efficient but doesn't give them a chance to add to the country one.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/calc.html



Qualifying points Europa Conference League


ECL-Q1
1.00


ECL-Q2
1.50


ECL-Q3
2.00


ECL-Q4
2.50


Qualifying points EL and ECL group stages


ECL-GS
2.50 (minimum)


EL-GS
3.00 (minimum)

[EAFC_rdfl]

Please don’t bother….. life’s too short


Couldn't agree more lad!

Well said lads!

[Acornvilla]

I just recently learned that individual club co-efficient is based on what round you've gotten to in the previous 5 years. Only the club co-efficient goes up and down depending on wins and draws. So by automatically getting through to round 2 it helps the club's individual co-efficient but doesn't give them a chance to add to the country one.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/calc.html



Qualifying points Europa Conference League


ECL-Q1
1.00


ECL-Q2
1.50


ECL-Q3
2.00


ECL-Q4
2.50


Qualifying points EL and ECL group stages


ECL-GS
2.50 (minimum)


EL-GS
3.00 (minimum)





Yeah, I was imagining a very specific scenario, of clubs entering in round 2 before they had the chance to already have a ranking high enough to get themselves seeded in that round.

I have vague memory of something like that happening to Sligo years ago and drawing a Ukranian team?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Yeah but it was actually the third round. They were very good. Drew 0-0 away with Ollie Keogh missing a great chance and then we couldn’t get the ball off them in the second leg. They got to the group stages.

[Kingdom]

Well said lads!
Jesus, not sure if I should be offended or Oshea!

[paul_oshea]

Well said lads!

Ah I'll leave it so, possession and stats and completed passes are not relevant here, and rightly so!

[sparky12345678]

I just recently learned that individual club co-efficient is based on what round you've gotten to in the previous 5 years. Only the club co-efficient goes up and down depending on wins and draws. So by automatically getting through to round 2 it helps the club's individual co-efficient but doesn't give them a chance to add to the country one.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/calc.html



Qualifying points Europa Conference League


ECL-Q1
1.00


ECL-Q2
1.50


ECL-Q3
2.00


ECL-Q4
2.50


Qualifying points EL and ECL group stages


ECL-GS
2.50 (minimum)


EL-GS
3.00 (minimum)





When it comes to club v country coefficient there is one other interesting thing at play worth mentioning.

Someone else will correct me im sure, but if I recall the country coefficient used to be more important when calculating a clubs coefficient for seeding etc.
That changed a few years back *however* if the country's coefficient "part" is higher than that which the club has built up then the club will not start with zero points but will instead benefit to some degree from the country's coefficient. So Vitesse in fact had a club coefficient of 6.00 going into the draw but because the Dutch league is ranked higher they had a coefficient of 7.840 starting out this year (demonstrating that Dundalk got one of the higher non seeds in that draw although looking at the others on the list not sure who they would have preffered, Riga? Elfsbourg).
Sligo and/or Pats have less points than the country's coefficient part so if they qualify for Europe at the end of this year they will still be relying on the country's seeding. Usually our seeding is so low as to not matter but to be seeded in the 1QR you "only" needed 2.250 this year (Breidablik from Iceland). Therefore there is some benefit for all clubs if the country part of the coefficient is bumped up a little. Reaching the lofty heights of 31st or 32nd would mean that our country part of the coefficient is good enough to have new teams seeded in the 1QR as well as have one team skip into 2QR. Being seeded in 2QR required a score of 5.25 +

[ToberonaTornado]

Dundalk were brilliant on Thursday.Bohs too,Shams three. :)

The goals from McEleney probably some of the best you'll ever see scored from an Irish side in Europe.Whole lot of courage from Dundalk and sets it up nicely for next week with Patching hopefully going to come back into the side.(

What about that sending off for vitesse though?? Absolute dirt from Openda and the English commentary guy thought it unjustified!!(the red) :eek: frucking 'ell!

With Bohs & Sligo both beaten yesterday today could be a good day for beating Pats and close the gap on the top 3/4.

PEAK6 ...... Don't start me,i'm currently on holidays and i want to enjoy it without starting on about those wasters!

Radio commentary with video on Dundalk's goals really is teriffic .
https://www.facebook.com/100063643683627/videos/3104755049752912

[Nesta99]

I think Adrian Taaffe might just have captured what Dundalk fans were feeling there!:D Enjoyed the punditry from James Rogers during the game too. As for the English commentator, he may still be suffering that Beckham World Cup moment. It was a red all day long if a stupid one, not a good way to lose your top striker going in to the second leg but they have no shortage goal threat regardless.

[EatYerGreens]

Absolute dirt from Openda and the English commentary guy thought it unjustified!!(the red) :eek: frucking 'ell!

Who was that English guy, as he was a terrible commentator.

A couple of examples that I can remember :

- Describing Vitesse as 'the team in yellow and blue shirts' (it's yellow and black).
- Talking about Vitesse facing 'a short journey across the North Sea next week'. Only if they're playing a friendly in England :o

There were a few other daft things which had me shaking my head as well. I thought he was poor and added very little.

[Bucket]

Bring back Siobhán!

[holidaysong]

Who was that English guy, as he was a terrible commentator.

A couple of examples that I can remember :

- Describing Vitesse as 'the team in yellow and blue shirts' (it's yellow and black).
- Talking about Vitesse facing 'a short journey across the North Sea next week'. Only if they're playing a friendly in England :o

There were a few other daft things which had me shaking my head as well. I thought he was poor and added very little.

A couple of others were incorrectly saying we had won against AZ in 2016 and also that the return leg next week would be in Oriel Park.

He was the same commentator for our other two away European ties too but I've no idea who he is.

[Nesta99]

Dutch commentator was worried about playing on the artificial pitch in our home ground Tallaght.

[sbgawa]

Dutch commentator was worried about playing on the artificial pitch in our home ground Tallaght.


Hopefully they rock up in Tallaght in their Astro's :rolleyes:

[CorribsideSteve]

A couple of others were incorrectly saying we had won against AZ in 2016 and also that the return leg next week would be in Oriel Park.

He was the same commentator for our other two away European ties too but I've no idea who he is.

He sounds like the most generic Eurosport commentator ever. A man that narrates clay-pigeon shooting, curling and yacht regatta all with the exact same cadence.

[pateen]

Well ... they WERE spectacularly poor in Europe under Perth the first time round (Celje,Slovan,Riga) but, fair play, he seems to have learned a lot tactically in that regard. On another note, it was lovely to see an Academy lad end up getting the winner for Rovers last night. Thank goodness they got a goal as a 0-0 against that lot would have been a travesty. Looking good for them too to be likely facing Flora rather than Omonia in a PO position.

Arent Omonia 1-nil up against Flora, I'd fancy them to go on and win the second leg. Would imagine they would be favourites against Rovers too, coming from a stronger league.

[Longfordian]

Bring back Siobhán!

Steady on.

[sbgawa]

Arent Omonia 1-nil up against Flora, I'd fancy them to go on and win the second leg. Would imagine they would be favourites against Rovers too, coming from a stronger league.
Rovers play the loser

[pateen]

Rovers play the loser

Ah, my bad. See that now

[TheBoss]

Flora v Omonia now gone to extra time

[ger121]

Gone to penalties now and 3-3 in the shootout

[ger121]

5-4 to Omonoia after sudden death. Looking at the stats in that match and over the 2 legs, Tallinn will be a very difficult challenge for Rovers should they progress.

[Bunny Kelly]

5-4 to Omonoia after sudden death. Looking at the stats in that match and over the 2 legs, Tallinn will be a very difficult challenge for Rovers should they progress.


All things being equal you'd always prefer an Irish side to go to the less hot country

[Nesta99]

Hopefully they rock up in Tallaght in their Astro's :rolleyes:

Genuinely! Got the details mixed up obviously - I doubt Vitesse will do the same. If the game was in Oriel I wonder how they would have managed the pitch, considering the side that uses it daily struggle.

[pineapple stu]

Just catching up on the thread now - looks like I'm going to have to paraphrase the great Lord Flashheart! "Cancel the state funeral, tell the king to stop blubbing, Flash is not dead!" Just been a particularly hectic week.

But yeah, they're two serious results. (And Rovers did alright too I guess!) I've contacted Dalyer looking for my cut for reverse jinxing Bohs. :)

They're results to get excited about too, even if a read through the thread shows how utterly unexpected both were. Who'd have thought back in March that Abibi would only concede twice against a top Dutch side?!

Does it invalidate the points I was making? Not really. They were still quite valid, as AN Mouse's stats showed. There was someone after the second round saying this was the greatest European season ever (or something along those lines) - but given the results at the time (beating a pre-season lower-half Welsh team, one win from four against lower-half Icelandic opposition, a last-minute winner against Estonian opposition, and an admittedly decent win against a Luxembourg side maybe slightly tainted by Dalymount Rower's suggestion of financial problems at the club), that attitude was real minnowism for me.

Does it invalidate the point in retrospect? One swallow doesn't make a summer, but certainly they're the kind of results we should be targeting more often. You might have Sligo v Rosenborg as a slightly better win because it was away and Rosenborg weren't in pre-season? Probably Dundalk v BATE too as it was an aggregate win against a CL group stage regular. But that's probably about it for the past decade and a half of European games (I think someone already mentioned Derry winning both legs against Göteborg in 2006, and the draw against PSG that followed was probably better again)

Second legs will be interesting this week. FWIW, I can't agree that elimination for either would devalue the results.

[SkStu]

Woof! :D

[sparky12345678]

While this will be important in saying if good results are followed up over the 2 legs. It should not take away from 2 great and relatively surprising results.

That said the tricky thing with european footbal is consistency. Can we sustain these performances...? Dundalk reqched a pinnacle but their players were on display at higher level and moved on to greener pastures now its rovers turn at the top. Bohs are having a great year but it wud be for nought if they dont get in again next year or the year after to be seeded and add to their coefficient etc etc

[Bunny Kelly]

The coefficient is a funny one, we seem to have our better years when ranked lower, get an easy win to start & get settled into europe before playing a tougher opponent. When we are ranked higher & enter at a later stage we dont get the opportunity to pick up easy points or the players to get settled into playing in europe

[sbgawa]

While this will be important in saying if good results are followed up over the 2 legs. It should not take away from 2 great and relatively surprising results.

That said the tricky thing with european footbal is consistency. Can we sustain these performances...? Dundalk reqched a pinnacle but their players were on display at higher level and moved on to greener pastures now its rovers turn at the top. Bohs are having a great year but it wud be for nought if they dont get in again next year or the year after to be seeded and add to their coefficient etc etc

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

[Philosophizer]

You're not really comparing like with like though. Even though Rovers beat Bratislava 2-1 in the second leg they were still losing the tie at that scoreline. Dundalk did similar a few years back against Hajduk Split.
Like Sligo against Rosenborg, Bohs have actually taken the lead in the tie against a vastly richer club, which is commendable in my book.

[2 Year Contract]

I got a ticket for the Dundalk game in Tallaght tomorrow night. At Pats you get an email with a designated time to show up at. I haven’t got an email or seen any details on staggered arrival times for this game, does anyone know if that’s a thing at Tallaght or is it just a case of showing up at whatever time?

[sparky12345678]

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

I mean obviously winning the tie against a higher ranked team like Partizan or BATE is better than winning one of the legs against a higher ranked team. Obviously following through with a draw for either dundalk or Bohs will stand to them much longer. I do think though that if they both go home this week they can hold their heads up high given this is only Bohs 2nd year out in Europe in several years. Next year only winning one of the legs against a higher ranked team might not be as big of a deal then. Dundalk ofc have more achievements to live up to than an away draw but given the year theyre having they still exceeded expectations.

[Kingdom]

You're not really comparing like with like though. Even though Rovers beat Bratislava 2-1 in the second leg they were still losing the tie at that scoreline. Dundalk did similar a few years back against Hajduk Split.
Like Sligo against Rosenborg, Bohs have actually taken the lead in the tie against a vastly richer club, which is commendable in my book.

No, it's not like-for-like, and quite frankly, it's a ridiculous argument, made from an extremely comfortable position.

PAOK had an opening 6/7 minutes to the game where they looked like they could cut loose. Bohs got a foothold and turned the screw on the game. PAOK were excellent for the 20 mins after Bohs scored the second, could have equalised, but the final 10 mins - certainly the last 5 - of the game, Bohs were stronger, and were the team pushing for the next goal.
If Bohs go out on Thursday by losing 2-0, or 3-1, then it won't diminish the first leg result. A hammering absolutely would.

[GUFCghost]

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

There's the problem, we're the most underfunded league in Europe. We regularly play against teams with budgets far bigger than ours every year, with the away leg usually in a stadium three times the size of our own. Not counting single leg victories will lead to madness

[sbgawa]

No, it's not like-for-like, and quite frankly, it's a ridiculous argument, made from an extremely comfortable position.

PAOK had an opening 6/7 minutes to the game where they looked like they could cut loose. Bohs got a foothold and turned the screw on the game. PAOK were excellent for the 20 mins after Bohs scored the second, could have equalised, but the final 10 mins - certainly the last 5 - of the game, Bohs were stronger, and were the team pushing for the next goal.
If Bohs go out on Thursday by losing 2-0, or 3-1, then it won't diminish the first leg result. A hammering absolutely would.

I'm not sure what is so "ridiculous" about saying that winning a tie over two legs is infinitely better than winning a one off game where the second leg was lost when the opposition needed to perform and did. One is a comprehensive achievement the other is catching someone on the hop and then being turned over.
I'm equally not sure what my "comfortable position" is given I'm saying the exact same applies to Rovers and Dundalk re Partizan or Bate meaning way more than any individual result and equally that Bohs beating Dudelange a very decent team comprehensively over two legs would be better then winning one leg against any team and then losing the second leg to go out.

If any of the Irish Teams back up their first leg results by going through it has a huge impact giving them a crack at group stages which means immeasurably more than a feel good first leg result.
I would put going through against the relative opposition as 1 Bohs 2 Dundalk 3 Rovers in terms of achievement.

[pineapple stu]

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.

I think you can still acknowledge "2 great and relatively surprising results" while agreeing that to win the tie outright would be a better achievement again. There can be levels of good results.

But definitely for me, a first leg result is better than a second leg win when you're already 2/3-0 down and the other side knows the tie is over and doesn't need to push for a late equaliser - that sort of stuff.

I've only seen the Dundalk highlights, and yeah, it looks like Vitesse were all over Dundalk and got complacent, but that's football. The Bohs/Sligo results in Iceland at the start of all this were poor results even though the LoI sides were (apparently) doing most of the pressing. By the same logic, these are good results.

[DCWA]

Losing the tie after winning the first leg quite obviously diminishes, and significantly diminishes, the first leg victory regardless of the competing clubs and any gulf in class. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

Bohs and Dundalk both played superbly two of maturest performances from Irish clubs I have seen and someone mentioned above those performances and results are “commendable” however should they both be on the receiving end of quite heavy defeats in their respective second leg ties it of course diminishes the importaance and impressiveness of those performances.

I mean it is literally the raison d’être of two legged ties and aggregate scorelines.

[placid casual]

Can we all just agree that Sligo made a pigs ear of Europe this year and the other teams either lived up to or exceeded expectations.
It also makes for a more amiable, pleasant forum to view during the annual European runs.

[sbgawa]

Can we all just agree that Sligo made a pigs ear of Europe this year and the other teams either lived up to or exceeded expectations.
It also makes for a more amiable, pleasant forum to view during the annual European runs.

I think we can all agree on that for sure, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

[sparky12345678]

its funny how redundant the conversation will be but it is ofc good to commend what should be commended.
Drogheda going out against Kiev after an epic game or Bohs blowing the second leg against Salzburg show that the "almost there" stories do live on because of that.
Yes a hammering will diminish the achievement, but if its a plucky draw for 90 minutes and either vitesse or PAOk sneak the win... or go through after penalties it will also be really frustrating ha.

[bohsmug]

If we all agree then the forum dies :(

[Bucket]

Agreed

[yurt]

Tomorrow has much more of a cup feeling about it because it really is do or die. We could easily be here with no teams left in Europe by the time we go to bed tomorrow night.

The majority of European games managed to be staggered this season. Must have been able to watch about a dozen of the games so far, shame that I won't be able to get the full 270(+) minutes as all games are must see tv (for me at least).

My only hope for Bohs and Dundalk is that there in with a shout up until the final whistle. But that was my hope for last week and they absolutely burst those low expectations. If either can get to half time with a clean sheet, pressure will build (particularly in Greece) and you never know what could transpire.

It's really hard to imagine how the Rovers game will develop given just how little those lads played in Dublin. But since they need to score you'd hope Rovers are good enough to cope with any attacking threat they manage to produce while being able to exploit the space left at the back. One part of the performance Rovers need to get right in how they manage the game, if they can stop them getting into any sort of rhythm with the same 'gamesmanship' which was on show in Tallaght I think it'll go a long way to seeing out the tie.

[joey B]

Bohs fans barred from the ground,seems a few travelled and bought tickets ,UEFA did say so,still a bit of a sickner after Greeks got in the Aviva last week….