Transfers 2019 season

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I've read the back and forth here and I don't get what you're trying to say either. What I'm getting from it is that Burke is technically too good for League 1 and 2 and teams in these leagues do not play to his strengths because it's all hoof-ball? Which for me is a massive generalisation.

But I think it's fair to say that he is not good enough for the Championship, otherwise another club would have identified his technical ability and made a move, no?

No I never said too good. I said he is a technical footballer, he needs to play in a team that play technical football of which very few teams have intentions of doing in League 1 and 2 and those that do tend to not get enough technical players in quick enough so start slowly then once the pressure comes on they revert to hoof ball. It is a generalisation but in my experience its accurate. Lots of teams start playing football on the floor in August and by October its route one when they realise the 5 players that can pass they brought in wasn't enough.

Again didn't say he was too good just that the style of play he was being asked to play isn't his style so its not that he wasn't good enough for the standard just not the right fit. It's why more and more midfielders and forwards from Premier League teams are going to Europe and not the lower leagues.

Not being a good fit doesn't equal not being good enough for that level. When you go on loan to League 1 and 2 you have to get very lucky as a technical player to get a good fit.

[D24Saint]

Why don't some of the Irish players try Holland /Portugal/Belgium ?
The obsession with England is understandable but as the money in England gets bigger and bigger the chances of Irish players making it are getting smaller and smaller.
The premier league is now effectively a world league drawing players from all over the world and the Championship is increasingly hard to crack as well

I would say they have a bias against Irish players in those countries. They tend to lob us in with the brits and assume we play long ball, it's a stereotype they have that is hard to shift.

[marinobohs]

No I never said too good. I said he is a technical footballer, he needs to play in a team that play technical football of which very few teams have intentions of doing in League 1 and 2 and those that do tend to not get enough technical players in quick enough so start slowly then once the pressure comes on they revert to hoof ball. It is a generalisation but in my experience its accurate. Lots of teams start playing football on the floor in August and by October its route one when they realise the 5 players that can pass they brought in wasn't enough.

Again didn't say he was too good just that the style of play he was being asked to play isn't his style so its not that he wasn't good enough for the standard just not the right fit. It's why more and more midfielders and forwards from Premier League teams are going to Europe and not the lower leagues.

Not being a good fit doesn't equal not being good enough for that level. When you go on loan to League 1 and 2 you have to get very lucky as a technical player to get a good fit.

Not being a good fit does equal not being good enough for that level. Either his current club are wrong and he is good enough for that division (and other clubs in hat division will be clammering for him) or he isn't good enough in which case he goes down a division to a level he is capable of operating at or returns to LOI. I can understand a player not fitting in to a particular club set up but a whole division ?

There really isn't any more to it than that.

[marinobohs]

I would say they have a bias against Irish players in those countries. They tend to lob us in with the brits and assume we play long ball, it's a stereotype they have that is hard to shift.

I doubt these clubs (Holland/Portugal, Belguim etc.) scout the LOI or indeed schoolboy leagues to anywhere near the same extent that English clubs do.

[sidewayspasser]

I would say they have a bias against Irish players in those countries. They tend to lob us in with the brits and assume we play long ball, it's a stereotype they have that is hard to shift.
If you look at the tactics the Irish national team has used in recent years, it's understandable that the "Irish football=long ball" stereotype isn't going to go away any time soon.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Not being a good fit does equal not being good enough for that level. Either his current club are wrong and he is good enough for that division (and other clubs in hat division will be clammering for him) or he isn't good enough in which case he goes down a division to a level he is capable of operating at or returns to LOI. I can understand a player not fitting in to a particular club set up but a whole division ?

There really isn't any more to it than that.


No, no it doesn't. Though that is in your completely unbiased opinion of course :rolleyes: As you drop down the leagues you get less and less technical, once you go below championship you're basically in a game of chance hoping the club you go to plays football for the season.

Of course this is a relatively new problem for Irish fans so I'm not surprised some people haven't grasped the concept of technical players not suiting lower leagues.

Look at Byrne, thrived in Holland in the Eredivisie but struggled in lower leagues England in struggling teams because instead of getting ball to feet it was going over his head, comes to Rovers, gets the ball to his feet and thrives again, you don't need to be an expert to see the pattern.

[marinobohs]

No, no it doesn't. Though that is in your completely unbiased opinion of course :rolleyes: As you drop down the leagues you get less and less technical, once you go below championship you're basically in a game of chance hoping the club you go to plays football for the season.

Of course this is a relatively new problem for Irish fans so I'm not surprised some people haven't grasped the concept of technical players not suiting lower leagues.

Look at Byrne, thrived in Holland in the Eredivisie but struggled in lower leagues England in struggling teams because instead of getting ball to feet it was going over his head, comes to Rovers, gets the ball to his feet and thrives again, you don't need to be an expert to see the pattern.

How many Championship sides came in for Burke ?Precisely none.There is a reason for that -they don't believe he is good enough for that level. Or do you believe there is some massive conspiracy against him personally ? I wish him all the best in his career, but that doesn't change the facts.
Its hardly a great secret that Byrne had issues off the pitch that may have hindered his career, but you can find that out at the AGM ;)

[pineapple stu]

That's way too simplistic on Byrne.

He struggled in England for other reasons too - disciplinary, for example. His team finished bottom of the Eredivisie - yes, he was a young player, but it's hardly "thriving" to be in a team that won 3 games all season.

And he's thriving in Ireland because it's a lower standard. He's playing UCD/Harps/Cork for God's sake.

Yes, he did well in the couple of European games, but overall, your argument still doesn't stack up.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

That's way too simplistic on Byrne.

He struggled in England for other reasons too - disciplinary, for example. His team finished bottom of the Eredivisie - yes, he was a young player, but it's hardly "thriving" to be in a team that won 3 games all season.

And he's thriving in Ireland because it's a lower standard. He's playing UCD/Harps/Cork for God's sake.

Yes, he did well in the couple of European games, but overall, your argument still doesn't stack up.

So for Burke the standard of his team is a negative because they're too good in comparison, for Byrne it's that they're too bad. He was their joint second top scorer, joint top for assists, in a few division team of the weeks (to do that in a team thats not winning is especially impressive) and the team got more points per game when he played than when he didn't. Hes also playing the likes of Dundalk, Derry, Brann, Apollon.

It doesn't stack up because you have this outdated mentality of England being the standard bearer and Irish players being route one merchants neither of which check out any more


How many Championship sides came in for Burke ?Precisely none.There is a reason for that -they don't believe he is good enough for that level. Or do you believe there is some massive conspiracy against him personally ? I wish him all the best in his career, but that doesn't change the facts.
Its hardly a great secret that Byrne had issues off the pitch that may have hindered his career, but you can find that out at the AGM ;)

Sorry I forgot you're the Preston CEO and know every offer that comes in for their players...Good to know we still have a place in your head rent free.

[sbgawa]

I think the agents of the Irish players have a case to answer.
Many of them have "links" to UK clubs and get paid for sending players over, how much effort is put into contacting mainland European clubs and promoting a player.

[pineapple stu]

Seriously - if you can be a decent player at one of the worst top flight teams the Dutch league has seen in recent years, then it's only logical you'll thrive when playing part-time teams in Ireland.The LoI is ****e compared to League One or the Eredivisie.

I see no reason to discount Occam's Razor here - the simple explanation is usually the right one. Burke failed in England for any reason other than that he wasn't good enough. Twice.

[marinobohs]

So for Burke the standard of his team is a negative because they're too good in comparison, for Byrne it's that they're too bad. He was their joint second top scorer, joint top for assists, in a few division team of the weeks (to do that in a team thats not winning is especially impressive) and the team got more points per game when he played than when he didn't. Hes also playing the likes of Dundalk, Derry, Brann, Apollon.

It doesn't stack up because you have this outdated mentality of England being the standard bearer and Irish players being route one merchants neither of which check out any more



Sorry I forgot you're the Preston CEO and know every offer that comes in for their players...Good to know we still have a place in your head rent free.

If he had offers in the Championship he would not be back, simple as that.
Tell us about these offers or stop your bull****.
I doubt anyone (even you) knows what goes on in your head 😁

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Seriously - if you can be a decent player at one of the worst top flight teams the Dutch league has seen in recent years, then it's only logical you'll thrive when playing part-time teams in Ireland.The LoI is ****e compared to League One or the Eredivisie.

I see no reason to discount Occam's Razor here - the simple explanation is usually the right one. Burke failed in England for any reason other than that he wasn't good enough. Twice.

Salah, Boetang, Pique, Di Maria, Forlan off the top of my head to show that a player not succeeding at a club is sometimes just down to a bad fit, not that the player are the club are bad, just different.
Pique is nearly the perfect example. Ferguson knew he was a good technical defender but maybe not up to the physicality of the Premier League so let him go back to Barcelona where he thrived because the Spanish league is more technical than physical.

Your view of football is simply outdated.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

If he had offers in the Championship he would not be back, simple as that.
Tell us about these offers or stop your bull****.
I doubt anyone (even you) knows what goes on in your head 

I'm not saying there were offers, I'm just not saying that there definitively were't because I don't know and I know for a fact you don't either.

Rent free

[ToberonaTornado]

Jesus fuc€ing wept.
Let it go man,life's too short.

[marinobohs]

I'm not saying there were offers, I'm just not saying that there definitively were't because I don't know and I know for a fact you don't either.

Rent free
Yes, we DO know, because if there was an offer he wouldn’t be back. Can’t make it any simpler.

Now, stop embarrassing yourself and move on 😁

[Nesta99]

Who was it that Dundalk fans cant take opposition talked down or (former) players not being rated...

Seeing an awful lot of L1/L2 matches over the years and tbh it is generally muck ball bar the few chasing promotion. It isnt vastly surperior to LoI's clubs top end of the table. Certainly when you factor in the much greater resources it becomes apparent that the gap isnt what people think it is and what it should be. LoI clubs are also now moving to bring on players' technical ability rather than just physical attributes while coaching the football out of them. For all the woes we are punching above our weight even on plenty of average attendances. There are Irish players on the fringes of L1/L2 squads, hopping from club to club neasly annually that I believe would be bigger success in some of the continental leagues, possibly even further up the English leagues.

[dfx-]

Have watched League 1 and league 2 football for the last three years week in week out. It certainly isn't better than the top of the LOI. League 2 is dreadful, teams with 6ft full backs and wingers.

All but the top of League One isn't a lot better, but make less mistakes. About thirteen teams last year within a point of relegation and Accrington Stanley could survive comfortably with an attendance of 2,500. It's about time Irish players started looking elsewhere.

[pineapple stu]

Accrington couldn't survive comfortably on crowds of 2,500 without their owner putting in a million a year. They also got £1.5m in TV money. That's what - twice the windfall Rovers got for reaching the group stages of Europe?

Budgets are huge in football; league tables often very closely tie in to the clubs' wages budget. I don't see why that would change here just because teams have 6ft full-backs and wingers.

Technical footballers may be better to watch, but if they're outmuscled by 6ft full-backs, then they're clearly worse players.

[Nesta99]

There is some merit in what RH is saying. Some gifted players just dont work out at clubs throughout football at all levels. The trigger happy nature of directors at Englsih football clubs means generally, and especially in the lower leagues, that it is purely result based. Doesnt matter how you do it just win at all costs. This rules out the almost extinct aspect of management of building a team as opposed to buying a team. If Burke was showing serious potential at PNE or out on loan he would have gotten a club that his attributes would be appreciated. Instead he returned home, he could have been homesick and enjoying life is as important as earning a wedge. I think RH is being a little touchy on the suggestion that Burke wasnt good enough or that his return to Rovers is a step down!!

[pineapple stu]

Some gifted players just dont work out at clubs throughout football at all levels.
Absolutely. But as you say, if he - or Boyle or Hoban or others - were good enough, then they'd have found another club.

I expect UCD to thrive next season. That doesn't prove that the Premier is worse than the First

[RathfarnhamHoop]

There is some merit in what RH is saying. Some gifted players just dont work out at clubs throughout football at all levels. The trigger happy nature of directors at Englsih football clubs means generally, and especially in the lower leagues, that it is purely result based. Doesnt matter how you do it just win at all costs. This rules out the almost extinct aspect of management of building a team as opposed to buying a team. If Burke was showing serious potential at PNE or out on loan he would have gotten a club that his attributes would be appreciated. Instead he returned home, he could have been homesick and enjoying life is as important as earning a wedge. I think RH is being a little touchy on the suggestion that Burke wasnt good enough or that his return to Rovers is a step down!!

Its the suggestion that, based on the idiotic view that football tactics are somehow "one size fits all" when it comes to the players in those tactics which is quite frankly a baffling view to have and I hope nobody ever takes the opinions of people with that view seriously when it comes to football, returning to the LOI on loan, which is important because Preston could have easily just released him from his contract early, somehow categorically means he isn't good enough for league 1 when it is possible, if not likely that Preston's hierarchy have got offers in from League 1 clubs and Rovers and have decided that there's no point sending him out somewhere where he won't be given the opportunity to do what they signed him for in the first place so the best option is to allow him to go to a team that they know play in a way that will allow him to flourish, worst case scenario from their point of view is they still don't want him but his value goes up a bit from where it is now. From a Preston view if you want Burke to play in a team that can play in a way that suits him your choices are limited, another championship team doesn't make sense from their viewpoint, what League 1 managers say in August and what they're doing by October can be very different, the continent has always been sort of mistrusted by english clubs, then there's Rovers who you know will play a way that will help Burke play to his potential.

Anyway is this not what we want as a league? English clubs are now looking at out league as a place where their more technical players that might struggle with the more agricultural lower leagues can thrive. Can only help the image of the league and also helps keep players here longer.


As an aside noticed in Dan McDonnells recent indo piece that he says Dundalk are now offering contracts worth around 100,000 a yeah, good to see that clubs are now beginning to be able to afford to pay players wages that allow them to make a good living from the league.


Absolutely. But as you say, if he - or Boyle or Hoban or others - were good enough, then they'd have found another club.

I expect UCD to thrive next season. That doesn't prove that the Premier is worse than the First

Once again displaying an amazing aptitude to completely miss the point

[5yardpass]

Absolutely. But as you say, if he - or Boyle or Hoban or others - were good enough, then they'd have found another club.

I expect UCD to thrive next season. That doesn't prove that the Premier is worse than the First

Lumping the individual choices of players and clubs together without really knowing what the true circumstances are, a big assumption that is pointless...

[Nesta99]

100k is good money but when said as 2k per week it doesnt sound just so frightening.

[dfx-]

Accrington couldn't survive comfortably on crowds of 2,500 without their owner putting in a million a year. They also got £1.5m in TV money. That's what - twice the windfall Rovers got for reaching the group stages of Europe?

Budgets are huge in football; league tables often very closely tie in to the clubs' wages budget. I don't see why that would change here just because teams have 6ft full-backs and wingers.

The only competitor for basketcase finance of clubs to LOI is league one. Coventry play 70 miles away in Northampton or 20 miles away in Birmingham, Bury not allowed play, Bolton unpaid and staff going to foodbanks, Charlton, Sunderland, Portsmouth and Blackpool all exist in league one or are just promoted. They're the big clubs, not the Southends...

The TV money is bigger, the losses are also bigger - 52 EFL clubs lost money last year. We are only six months since Charlton's owner demanded the EFL takeover the club and before that had Maxi-like fans going over to protest in Belgium. And that was a club in the playoffs!

The LOI is sane by comparison.

[El-Pietro]

The only competitor for basketcase finance of clubs to LOI is league one. Coventry play 70 miles away in Northampton or 20 miles away in Birmingham, Bury not allowed play, Bolton unpaid and staff going to foodbanks, Charlton, Sunderland, Portsmouth and Blackpool all exist in league one or are just promoted. They're the big clubs, not the Southends...

The TV money is bigger, the losses are also bigger - 52 EFL clubs lost money last year. We are only six months since Charlton's owner demanded the EFL takeover the club and before that had Maxi-like fans going over to protest in Belgium. And that was a club in the playoffs!

The LOI is sane by comparison.

I was born in London and am a life long Charlton fan. I was at one of those protests in Belgium. It is incredibly disingenuous to compare the very organised and legal actions taken by various protest groups (CARD, Belgian 20 being the main two) to one nutjob threatening to set himself and a christmas tree on fire. The protests in Belgium have been consisent over the past several years and are largely unrelated to the teams performance. Protests died down last year as it was believed the owner was making a real effort to sell the club but it has become clear that he has unrealistic requirements in any sale and protests will be scaled back up again soon I believe, though no longer at games as whole those get media attention they don't impact the owner as he has only been to one game since taking over in 2014.

Several of the individuals involved in CARD (Coalition Against Roland Duchatelet) in particular are very savvy and experienced, and were heavily involved in the Valley Party in the early 1990s that put pressure on Greenwich council to allow planning permission to redevelop the Valley which had fallen into disrepair forcing the club to spend years playing at Selhurst Park and Upton Park.

The situation at Charlton could be called insane and I wouldn't dispute that, but its the owner whos actions are insane, not the very rational, organised fanbase. The owner just this week was on Talksport explaining why he has been unable to sell the club and effectively said anyone who wanted to buy a Championship club is foolish as all you will do is lose money. This is just one of his many bizarre statements over the past five years.

[dfx-]

I wouldn't disagree, it's absolutely no fault of the fans and some of them are going to incredible lengths up and down that league. The fact that the clubs are so badly run and the EFL let them do it so fans have to do that is mad.

Whether it's SISU, Duchatelet, Oyston, Ken Anderson or the others at different times, it's the fans that lose out and they are the ones left to pick up the damage. Some Blackpool fans hadn't seen their club play for five years, team performance was not a consideration either.

Some Coventry fans won't go to home games so as not to fund SISU's legal rampage, they will go to the away games and can travel in larger numbers away than at home.

[sidcon]

Transfers thread people

[nigel-harps1954]

Not to take this thread off topic, but missed here the other day Harps signed Ruairi Harkin from Cliftonville for his second spell at the club.

[ger121]

Not to take this thread off topic, but missed here the other day Harps signed Ruairi Harkin from Cliftonville for his second spell at the club.

Jesus, what do you think this is, a transfers thread or something? Back in your lane Nigel!!

[marinobohs]

Not to take this thread off topic, but missed here the other day Harps signed Ruairi Harkin from Cliftonville for his second spell at the club.
But is Harkin too good for Division 1 ? Or too technical ? You can't just come on hear posting about transfers. Shame on you Nigel

[Martinho II]

bohs have signed ex town goalie mick kelly but his contract expired. he was on trial with QPR but that fell through as one unnamed loi club was asking for 400k for their cut of the deal!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

bohs have signed ex town goalie mick kelly but his contract expired. he was on trial with QPR but that fell through as one unnamed loi club was asking for 400k for their cut of the deal!

Hes over 23 and out of contract no no money needed no?

[David BOHie]

bohs have signed ex town goalie mick kelly but his contract expired. he was on trial with QPR but that fell through as one unnamed loi club was asking for 400k for their cut of the deal!

Any use?

[Ezeikial]

Any use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriH3dsAT_I

[outspoken]

Any use?

Was brilliant for Longford last season, he's got the best distribution I've seen from any keeper in this league, especially out of his hands, he kicks this lovely flat long ball straight to his target, we scored several goals from it last season. Brilliant shot stopper but my only criticism of him is for an absolute unit of a man he is very suspect under a high ball at times

[Ezeikial]

Has Niall Corbet left Bohs?

[oriel]

Anyone hear any news on Zach Elbouzedi? He's out of contract with Waterford end of this season, Dundalk were meant to have made an offer last month which was rejected, no idea on details or if an improved offer will be made.

He will also have UK options I`m sure, but that would have to be from 1st Jan only.

[Martinho II]

Hes over 23 and out of contract no no money needed no?

heard shamrock rovers were looking for their slice of the deal so by my reckoning he would be below age 23 imo when he was with them. Cabinteely were looking as well for their slice also!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

heard shamrock rovers were looking for their slice of the deal so by my reckoning he would be below age 23 imo when he was with them. Cabinteely were looking as well for their slice also!

July 96 would put him as over 23 now and if he's only signing now if a team really wanted him I doubt compensation would be the issue, I'd also be very very skeptical of anyone claiming a LOI club were looking for anywhere near 400k development money and even if they were that QPR wouldn't then take their chances at a tribunal.

[nigel-harps1954]

I thought Kelly was crap tbh. He's young enough yet though and will still learn.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Billy Dennehy has announced that he and Darren have retired from football. Slightly surprised nobody took a punt on Billy but maybe his job with the Kerry U17s and presumably his day job stopped that happening

[Nesta99]

July 96 would put him as over 23 now and if he's only signing now if a team really wanted him I doubt compensation would be the issue, I'd also be very very skeptical of anyone claiming a LOI club were looking for anywhere near 400k development money and even if they were that QPR wouldn't then take their chances at a tribunal.

Figures dont add up - more likely to be 40k not 400k.

[Asterix]

Dan Carr to Apollan Limassol according to Dan McDonnell

[Nesta99]

Rovers taking on the leagues 'selling club' tag?

[sbgawa]

Makes sense with Burke and farrugia coming in but sorry to see him go.

Not a very prolific striker but every once in a while he would have a match where he was unplayable just not often enough, nice lad by all accounts wish him the best.

[Dalymountrower]

Makes sense with Burke and farrugia coming in but sorry to see him go.

Not a very prolific striker but every once in a while he would have a match where he was unplayable just not often enough, nice lad by all accounts wish him the best.


Obviously Apollon and most non Rovers fans highly rate Carr. Not really sure why he was always talked down by a lot of Rovers fans.
Good business for Apollon, Carr out of contract in three months so modest enough fee I would think.

[marinobohs]

Makes sense with Burke and farrugia coming in but sorry to see him go.

Not a very prolific striker but every once in a while he would have a match where he was unplayable just not often enough, nice lad by all accounts wish him the best.

Never seemed to fit in at Tallaght. Always impressed me in games against us and am glad he is gone before the last derby of the season ! interesting move for him, best of luck with it.

[outspoken]

If the lad could time a run he'd be lethal. Was offside every time the ball went forward against Dundalk, Gartland and Hoare mad him look like a mug. Surprised by the move I have to say.

[sbgawa]

He didn't score enough goals simple as lads,
I can see why non rovers fans would rate him because if one of the matches where he played well was against your team he looks fantastic but when you saw him every week he was incredibly frustrating.
I'm not glad to see him go butif we go a fee (i assume we did) for a player who will be out of contract in 10 weeks and isnt a starter how bad is that?