League of Ireland in Europe 2014

[TheBoss]

Well, that time of the year is coming around soon and with most of the leagues now finished, we can see the possible opponents for the Irish sides.

In Champions League, Pats will face a difficult selection of teams, the fact that Swedish Champions Malmo and Norwegian Champions Stromsgodset are not seeded would be evidence of that. So, it will be tough ask for Pats to progress. UEFA do regionalise the draw, so it is likely to assume that it would be one of the following:
*Possible

Celtic
BATE Borisov
Ventspils
HJK Helsinki
*Sparta Praha
*Slovan Bratislava
*Maribor
*Polish Winners

Full List: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedcl2014.html

In the Europa League, Sligo being seeded will aid their attempts to progress and they have a chance to get a game they would consider 'winnable', again the draw will be regionalised, so the usual clubs from the northern nations that LOI fans are familiar to. Obviously like Sligo, Dundalk and Derry will face northern teams as well, with Rosenborg the major team to avoid, other than them, the teams would not be super hard but probably just a bit better than them apart from 1 or 2 of them.

Full List: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedel2014.html

[bennocelt]

In the CL, if not regionalised I think FK Aktobe, FK Ventspils(the best they cud hope for) and Garabag Agdam are the only opponents that pats mighthave a chance IMHO

Uefa cup, hopefully get a welsh or norn iron team this year to boost the coefficients

[seand]

Not sure if Champions League is regionalised? Europa League still seems to be (informally though). Dundalk, unseeded, would like Bangor City or Linfield (or Crusaders if they sneak into the seeds), or Tromso who are in the Norwegian second division. Aberdeen would be good too.

[brendy_éire]

Not sure if Champions League is regionalised? Europa League still seems to be (informally though). Dundalk, unseeded, would like Bangor City or Linfield (or Crusaders if they sneak into the seeds), or Tromso who are in the Norwegian second division. Aberdeen would be good too.

Champions League is regionalised for first and second qualifying round, I think. Europa is regionalised in the first qualifying round.
Would take a handy Welsh trip to start off with. Would like to avoid an IL side though. The way we're playing this season, I'd be terrified of losing. For the best trip craic-wise, I think Tromsø, just because I've always wanted to go there. It's also really far north, so wouldn't be too hot.

[poster]

Our most likely draw (depending on regionalisation) is one of:

Fola Esch
Crusaders
Fram
Stjarnan
Vikingur
Torshavn
Fuglafjordor
Airbus
Glenavon
Aberystwyth
Santos Tartu
or Kalev Sillamae

[poster]

For the best trip craic-wise, I think Tromsø, just because I've always wanted to go there. It's also really far north, so wouldn't be too hot.

Good craic, if you enjoy paying €10 for a pint.

[Mr A]

Our most likely draw (depending on regionalisation) is one of:

Fola Esch
Crusaders
Fram
Stjarnan
Vikingur
Torshavn
Fuglafjordor
Airbus
Glenavon
Aberystwyth
Santos Tartu
or Kalev Sillamae

Ye may have to charter a plane. After all one does not simply walk into Fuglafjordor.

[pineapple stu]

Stjarnan would be great craic.

zC8XanuhOss

[poster]

Ye may have to charter a plane. After all one does not simply walk into Fuglafjordor.

Hoping for Kalen Spillane myself.

[Dodge]

Just on regionalisation. The groups/pots for CL QR2 (Pats round) and the EL QR1 are "somewhat" regionalised in that they try to regionalise them but if there's more Northern seeds than unseeded teams, they'll move teams around

For example in 2012 Pats were seeded and in their seeded group were teams from Norway, Latvia, Wales, Faroes and Macedonia. The unseeded teams were; Northern Ireland, Iceland, Finland, Armenia, San Marino and Moldova.

Bolded teams certainly aren't Northern.

Last season unseeded Drogheda were in a pot with seeded team from Azerbaijan.

[Stuttgart88]

Personally, I think the whole tournament should be regionalised and possibly divisionalised too, like the Nations League idea.

[legendz]

Personally, I think the whole tournament should be regionalised and possibly divisionalised too, like the Nations League idea.
I think it's harsh that about 20 league champions are out after CL Q2. They should be entered into EL Q3. The EL itself while big enough already possibly should expand to two conferences West and East of 32 teams each. Europa League final then between both conference winners. CL spot as planned for EL winner with the runner-up entered in the round before the play-offs in the non-champions path.

Anyways, enough of that. The goal of LoI clubs in Europe should be the play-offs. 1 or 2 clubs at that stage more often than not should see the country have a decent, and more respectable, coefficient.

[citybone]

I think it's harsh that about 20 league champions are out after CL Q2. They should be entered into EL Q3. The EL itself while big enough already possibly should expand to two conferences West and East of 32 teams each. Europa League final then between both conference winners. CL spot as planned for EL winner with the runner-up entered in the round before the play-offs in the non-champions path.

Anyways, enough of that. The goal of LoI clubs in Europe should be the play-offs. 1 or 2 clubs at that stage more often than not should see the country have a decent, and more respectable, coefficient.
a lot of that is a bit much but i would put the 6 first round of champions league qualifying teams into the Europa league first round and have a chance of a result/less travel.

[Stuttgart88]

I think there could be 4 conferences: North west, north east, south west and south east, although an obvious problem would be that some big countries would be in the same quadrant. South East would be a security nightmare!

Within each conference there could be divisions, graded by national league coefficient and with promotion and relegation. So instead of hoping to draw a Welsh or Icelandic team in a qualifying round, a win constituting a good European run, an Irish club might wish to have a good run in a 6 team North West Division 3(?) league with a view to getting promoted to division 2.

Ok, so that promotion would apply to the League rather than the club and it'd be possible for a situation where a team is doing badly in its own league and won't be in Europe, so it might lose its last games to get relegated! Unlikely, especially if there's prize money.

I think it's a shame that our size locks us out of meaningful European competition. I love European football and our absence from it only reinforces the negative view many Irish have of the LOI. I think this can also be seen in the context of my BIRGing and CORFing post in the Shamrock Rovers v Liverpool thread.

Europe's smaller leagues are not served well by European football's structures. Personally, I prefer the European model of national leagues and cross-border competition run by UEFA, but high profile sports economists such as Stefan Szymanski (author of several popular books and regular FT contributor) regularly argue that it is this very structure that means a decent sized city like Dublin doesn't have a football team to compete with teams from comparable catchment areas. He would argue for a standalone Dublin franchise in a cross-border Superleague with teams all benefitting from big TV money.

I wouldn't like to see it myself but I would like to see some means of European football being more inclusive. Dodge and others disagreed with me when I said that the new Nations League idea was a step towards more inclusivity for lesser nations, by giving more meaning to their fixtures. My views also apply to club competition - something better than the status quo can be configured. The above suggestion us only a taster, a starting point for discussion, not a final idea.

[Dodge]

1 or 2 clubs at that stage more often than not should see the country have a decent, and more respectable, coefficient.

For that to happen clubs in the Europa League will have to win 3 games. Something no Irish side has ever done.

[PartySaint]

For that to happen clubs in the Europa League will have to win 3 games. Something no Irish side has ever done.

2008
Olimps X2
Elfsborg

[Dodge]

Win 3 ties/rounds. Jeez.....

[legendz]

I think it's a shame that our size locks us out of meaningful European competition. I love European football and our absence from it only reinforces the negative view many Irish have of the LOI. I think this can also be seen in the context of my BIRGing and CORFing post in the Shamrock Rovers v Liverpool thread.I think at the very least, the 20 or so league champions knocked out after CL Q2 should enter a sepatate knock-out competition. That would take 5 rounds, same number of rounds as CL Q4, play-offs and group stage. The winner, along with the 4 best third placed teams in the CL and 3 best third placed team in the EL should enter the EL round of 32 stage. I don't agree with 3rd placed CL teams parachuting in but at very least the number should be halved. Tough on EL group winners too to be drawn against a CL team. I would argue 4 CL against the 3 EL teams and separate knock-out winner. Anyways, UEFA only care about money so I don't envisage them doing something productive for smaller nations nor addressing the unfairness of CL 3rd placed teams parachuting in.
For that to happen clubs in the Europa League will have to win 3 games. Something no Irish side has ever done.|I obviously have an unrealistic high expectation of LoI clubs entering the league! Still though, I think the league's best 3 representatives should at least have aspirations of getting to that stage, without a casino finance mentality of course.

[Mr A]

Feck that. The Champions (or European) Cup should consist only of champions. Open draw, every tie over two legs. Feck the modern system.

[legendz]

Feck that. The Champions (or European) Cup should consist only of champions. Open draw, every tie over two legs. Feck the modern system.
It would be great to see. Put the champions back in the champions league! Champions of the conferences suggested by Stuttgart would be the scenic route for others to make the top table.

[Real ale Madrid]

This Draw is on Monday.

Had a look at the Champions league teams and possible opponents for St Pats should be based on historical evidence as discussed above ( it may not work that way ) would be:

Celtic (Sco)
Legia Warsaw (Pol)
BATE Borisov (Bel)
HJK Helsinki (Fin)
FK Ventspils (Lat)
Plus 1 other - anything from Maribor to Quarabag.
Edit - with 34 teams in the 2nd round it is possible there may only be 5 possible opponents with 10 teams in the "Northern" pot and 12 teams in the other 2 pots.

[PartySaint]

This Draw is on Monday.

Had a look at the Champions league teams and possible opponents for St Pats should be based on historical evidence as discussed above ( it may not work that way ) would be:

Celtic (Sco)
Legia Warsaw (Pol)
BATE Borisov (Bel)
HJK Helsinki (Fin)
FK Ventspils (Lat)
Plus 1 other - anything from Maribor to Quarabag.
Edit - with 34 teams in the 2nd round it is possible there may only be 5 possible opponents with 10 teams in the "Northern" pot and 12 teams in the other 2 pots.

We might get away with avoiding BATE. I'd expect Sparta Prague to be in our pot ahead of them.

[gufcfan]

We might get away with avoiding BATE. I'd expect Sparta Prague to be in our pot ahead of them.

I don't know, Pats will master BATE no problem I reckon.

[seand]

Anyone know how Derry "appear" to have gone from unseeded to seeded in recent days?

Unseeded says Bert .... http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedel2014.html
Seeded says Wiki .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_UEFA_Europa_League#First_qualifyin g_round

Is it just a Wiki typo?

[DannyInvincible]

Looks like a Wiki typo. Bert is correct. Derry's co-efficient is 1.525; not 2.525.

[refjohn]

Looks like a Wiki typo. Bert is correct. Derry's co-efficient is 1.525; not 2.525.


SSHHH - don;t tell UEFA. Derry seem to have sneaked in as 37th with the top 39 seeded as 78 clubs. They have us at 2.525

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2117513.html

Think UEFA have allowed Derry to keep their point from the Paris St Germain game a few years ago - that equates to difference.

[Djm1901]

Strange one as their lower coefficient was used last year (1.465)
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=1960236.html

[seand]

Paris St Germain is too long ago, but I think I've worked it out, and I hate to say it but the legend that is Bert Kassies seems to have it wrong. Looking here he has Derry in the rankings twice.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2014.html

They should be ranked a bit higher than Dundalk just because they participated last year. I think Bert had it wrong, Wiki picked it up from Bert and now UEFA has it right, which is great news for Derry and the league

[DannyInvincible]

PSG was nearly ten years ago, so of course it doesn't count. Only the last five seasons count towards the co-efficient. UEFA don't deem the current club and the club who played against PSG as the same entity anyway, or am I mistaken on that?

Derry's co-efficient is 1.525: http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/12518/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-uefa-club-co-efficient-system/

[pineapple stu]

PSG was nearly ten years ago, so of course it doesn't count.
Holy Christ, you're right. Time flies.

[A N Mouse]

PSG was nearly ten years ago, so of course it doesn't count. Only the last five seasons count towards the co-efficient. UEFA don't deem the current club and the club who played against PSG as the same entity anyway, or am I mistaken on that?

Derry's co-efficient is 1.525: http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/12518/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-uefa-club-co-efficient-system/

If uefa are saying Derry's coefficient is a point higher then they have to be counting 09/10. When we beat skonto before going out in third qualifying round to CSKA.

Course they could have two entries in their database, like Bert, and be using the wrong one

[refjohn]

Paris St Germain is too long ago, but I think I've worked it out, and I hate to say it but the legend that is Bert Kassies seems to have it wrong. Looking here he has Derry in the rankings twice.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2014.html

They should be ranked a bit higher than Dundalk just because they participated last year. I think Bert had it wrong, Wiki picked it up from Bert and now UEFA has it right, which is great news for Derry and the league

Yep time does fly - but it was a point 5 years ago - as someone said must be Skonto.

[seand]

The last couple of seasons the club coefficient has been based on round reached, rather than games won, so just qualifying and losing or better still just qualifying for the second round and losing, earns you points.

[pineapple stu]

UEFA say Derry are seeded (http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2117554.html?rss=2117554+First+qualifying+r ound+seedings+confirmed).

[pineapple stu]

Group 5
1 FC Differdange 03 (LUX)
2 Rosenborg BK (NOR)
3 IF Brommapojkarna (SWE)
4 Linfield FC (NIR)
5 Derry City FC (IRL)
6 JK Nõmme Kalju (EST)
7 FK Jelgava (LVA)
8 Fram Reykjavík (ISL)
9 B36 Tórshavn (FRO)
10 VPS Vaasa (FIN)
11 Aberystwyth Town FC (WAL)
12 FK Atlantas (LTU)


Group 6
1 Aberdeen FC (SCO)
2 AS Jeunesse Esch (LUX)
3 Tromsø IL (NOR)
4 FK Ekranas (LTU)
5 Myllykosken Pallo-47 (FIN)
6 Bangor City FC (WAL)
7 Dundalk FC (IRL)
8 Stjarnan (ISL)
9 Crusaders FC (NIR)
10 Tartu FC Santos (EST)
11 ÍF Fuglafjørdur (FRO)
12 FK Daugava Rīga (LVA)


Group 7
1 FH Hafnarfjördur (ISL)
2 IFK Göteborg (SWE)
3 FC Honko Espoo (FIN)
4 Sligo Rovers FC (IRL)
5 FK Haugesund (NOR)
6 FC Daugava Daugavpils (LVA)
7 CS Fola Esch (LUX)
8 Víkingur (FRO)
9 FK Banga (LTU)
10 JK Sillamäe Kalev (EST)
11 AUK Broughton FC (WAL)
12 Glenavon FC (NIR)


Some nice potential draws there, even for Dundalk, the only unseeded LoI team. In fact, there's no-one there that Sligo or Derry should be particularly concerned about. (Though I've no doubt the unseeded teams will be looking for Sligo/Derry themselves)

[pineapple stu]

And for Pat's in the Champions' League -

Group 3
FC Steaua Bucureşti (ROU)
GNK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO)
PFC Ludogorets Razgrab (BUL)
Legia Warszawa (POL)
Qarabağ FK (AZE)
HJK Helsini (FIN)
F91 Dudelange (LUX)
Strømsgodset IF (NOR)
Saint Patrick's Athletic (IRL)
Valletta FC (MLT)
VMFD Žalgiris (LTU)

I don't know how that works with an odd number of teams. Or maybe a team's missing from the UEFA site.

[PartySaint]

UEFA doing us no favours again, how we've managed to end up in a different pot to Cliftonville and TNS is beyond me.

[gufcfan]

I don't know how that works with an odd number of teams. Or maybe a team's missing from the UEFA site.

Rabotnički from Macedonia are missing from the grouped seeds list. Maybe they are the missing unseeded teams in Pats' group.

[seand]

Decent enough group for Dundalk, as in I'd have picked Aberdeen, Bangor and Esch in my top 6 favourite opponents! Ekranas would be horrible, Tromso would give us a good chance but a nightmare to get to, MyPa somewhere in the middle for both progressing and travel.

Derry look to have a horrible group logistically, with a couple of tricky opponents. Sligo's is a bit better.

Looks like Pats got bumped out of the usual region to keep the numbers balanced. On the plus side they're in with the seeded HJK which was the best possible draw in terms of progressing- probably the only seed you'd fancy them against.

[A N Mouse]

For anyone that might be trying to book flights, google now have a visual search

Just type flights into address bar, after google, on their homepage

or hit link (uk)

https://www.google.co.uk/flights/

Can tell it what airports able to fly from, optional dates, then zoom and scroll about the map.

Direct flights are bright red. Can change no of stopovers, airlines etc.

[Finlay Harp]

Legia Warsaw v Saint Pats

[A N Mouse]

Legia Warsaw v Saint Pats

There any live coverage of it anywhere?

Will settle for live blog. Stream, which doesn't seem to be going would be non-starter anyway

[pineapple stu]

Legia Warsaw v Saint Pats
Not the worst, I guess. The top three in that section were very tough.

Obviously Legia would be favourites to go through. But LoI did beat Poland when last we met I think! (Rovers v Odra?)

Henning Berg is the manager, quite randomly. They beat TNS 4-1 last year, then Molde 1-1 (away goals) before losing to Steaua 3-3 on away goals. All teams LoI sides have faced in the past couple of seasons. Good barometer there.

They got transferred across to the Europa League groups, where they got one win and five defeats. All reasonably competitive defeats, though they didn't score in any of them (1-0 and 2-0 v Lazio, 2-0 and 2-0 v Trabzonspor and 1-0 and a 2-0 win against Apollon Limassol)

[nigel-harps1954]

There any live coverage of it anywhere?

Will settle for live blog. Stream, which doesn't seem to be going would be non-starter anyway

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2015/draws/index.html

[A N Mouse]

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2015/draws/index.html

Sorry, should have been more specific the live stream on uefa.com is no use to me.

They seem to have regressed - used to like the animated draw.

No excuse for not providing text updates. (vidiprinter stylee)

Is anywhere else doing this?

[nigel-harps1954]

No updates elsewhere that I could find.

Sligo away to Lithuania.

FC Banga or something like that.

[nigel-harps1954]

Jeunesse Esch (Luxembourg) v Dundalk

[nigel-harps1954]

Derry v Aberystwyth Town (wales)

[A N Mouse]

No updates elsewhere that I could find.

Sligo away to Lithuania.

FC Banga or something like that.

Cheers.

Both competitions have twitter accounts, surely would be ideal platform for this sort of thing.

[A N Mouse]

Derry v Aberystwyth Town (wales)

Longford and bohs will be glad of that. When we're knocked out