League of Ireland in Europe 2014 [Archive] - Page 22

Charlie Darwin

30/07/2014, 10:45 PM

adamd164

30/07/2014, 10:55 PM

Not surprised Celtic got hockeyed. The scottish league is absolute rubbish, just with better facilities, and most of the teams would be well beatable by LOI sides in European competition.

Charlie Darwin

30/07/2014, 11:04 PM

Not surprised Celtic got hockeyed. The scottish league is absolute rubbish, just with better facilities, and most of the teams would be well beatable by LOI sides in European competition.
Could say the same about the Polish league.

Dodge

31/07/2014, 12:12 AM

I don't think they came close but it was all down to collapsing in the second leg. That injury time equaliser changed the tie completely. If they'd headed into the game in Tallaght with a lead I think it would have been a different tie. Once that goal went in, I think the greater experience and talent of the Poles was always going to win out (speaking in hindsight).

Better team won but 3/4 the way through the ties there wasn't much in it. 2nd goal killed Pats and then injuries to Brown and O'brien meant we played last 20 with Conan byrne playing his first ever game at right back. Not blaming him but the last 3 goals only cam eabout as the ties was over. 2-0 or 5-0 didn't really matter

Celtic not out yet either way

Charlie Darwin

31/07/2014, 12:20 AM

Celtic aren't out but only because Legia are pretty mediocre and Celtic do have the better players. The only thing is their defence is so awful you can't see them not conceding, so they'll need at least four. They badly need Stokes back because that Norwegian lad looked like he'd been plucked from the U15s.

Pats lost 5-0 but I don't think anybody watching it would agree the scoreline reflected the game. Pats were poor but they weren't thrashed, whereas Celtic were and the 4-1 scoreline was flattering if anything.

nigel-harps1954

31/07/2014, 12:32 AM

I think Legia are a lot stronger than people are giving them credit for.

Radovic is a cracking player and is proving his worth with his goals in Europe alone. If he were a bit younger, you'd imagine Serbia would be taking a closer look at him for an international call up.
Duda is a real ball player and tore Pat's apart in my view. Their keeper Kuciak, in the two games against Pats alone, looked head and shoulders above any keeper in the LOI.

Just on a bit of research, they've 15 full internationals in their current squad as per Wiki.

Charlie Darwin

31/07/2014, 12:34 AM

They're really not. They're better than Pats but for a club with a budget of €30 million+ they're bog standard and they're very beatable. Agreed Radovic is a star though.

nigel-harps1954

31/07/2014, 12:38 AM

Their budget is irrelevant though surely? Of course, give Pat's €30 million to spend and they'd probably put together a team capable of reaching the group stages, but at the end of the day, while Pat's had a chance, in truth, Legia are miles better in all departments.

Anything can happen over 180 minutes of football, but realistically, Legia were always going to win out in the end.

Charlie Darwin

31/07/2014, 12:41 AM

No, they really weren't. The tie was in the balance until Pats switched off for a moment and allowed Legia to equalise. If they'd won that match, there's every chance they'd have finished the job.

And budget is relevant in terms of saying for what Legia invest in their players, they're really pretty ordinary and beatable by any half decent side. It helps they have a no-mark of a coach.

SPXcyan

31/07/2014, 9:32 AM

Just keep in mind that 30 million Euro in Poland exchanges for 120 million PLN which is a HUGE amount of money there.

adamd164

31/07/2014, 3:36 PM

In other news, it finished Shakhter Karagandy 4-2 Hajduk Split in the first leg.

pineapple stu

31/07/2014, 8:27 PM

Rosenborg draw 0-0 in Turkey. Still reckon Sligo would have had a chance against that lot.

Soligosrk amazingly win 5-2 in Belgium against Zulte Waregem.

Maybe more amazingly (pending geysir telling us he knew it all along...) Stjarnan beat Lech Poznan 1-0.

geysir

01/08/2014, 9:05 AM

Another victory clocked up for Stjarnan (The Stars), unbeaten in almost a year now. Poznan were a few steps up the ladder from Motherwell. Only 850 tickets went on sale for the home fans with 150 for the visitors, it seems that the policy is to give a ticket to every fan who's on the away team's charter flight. Motherwell got near 200. Nevertheless there's plenty of scope to watch the game through the wide open fences.
This was a gritty, close down the midfield space exercise with the only goal coming from a goalkeeper's howler.

A good evening no doubt but the Motherwell game was differently special, the birth of a first child type thing.
Langhorne Slim's song has found a home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=see0phB2iyk

SPXcyan

01/08/2014, 9:55 AM

Fantastic video! I wonder if the Irish celebrate such a victory in Europe? doubtful :P

ger121

01/08/2014, 11:12 AM

How is that ground fit for a 3rd round game but the Brandywell wouldn't have been?

DannyInvincible

01/08/2014, 11:29 AM

How is that ground fit for a 3rd round game but the Brandywell wouldn't have been?

I posted some info on the governing regulations and stadium category distinctions earlier in the thread here: http://foot.ie/threads/190188-League-of-Ireland-in-Europe-2014?p=1768151&viewfull=1#post1768151

Obviously, it fulfills certain specified criteria that the Brandywell doesn't.

ger121

01/08/2014, 5:35 PM

I posted some info on the governing regulations and stadium category distinctions earlier in the thread here: http://foot.ie/threads/190188-League-of-Ireland-in-Europe-2014?p=1768151&viewfull=1#post1768151

Obviously, it fulfills certain specified criteria that the Brandywell doesn't.

I know that it woudn't but that ground capacity wise would barely be category 2 never mind category 3. Just seems that we adhere to the rules more that other Countries. TNS springs to mind as a ground that wasn't fit to hold a CL qualifier.

DannyInvincible

04/08/2014, 2:16 AM

I know that it woudn't but that ground capacity wise would barely be category 2 never mind category 3. Just seems that we adhere to the rules more that other Countries. TNS springs to mind as a ground that wasn't fit to hold a CL qualifier.

Everyone adheres to the rules. There's no choice in the matter. Exceptions can be granted by UEFA, but clubs must appeal for such. I'm not sure, but perhaps that was the case with Stjarnan. TNS might have played Bohs in the second qualifying round of the Champions League a few years ago at their home stadium in Oswestry, but it wasn't suitable for the third round qualifier against Anderlecht. The home fixture in that tie was played at the Racecourse Ground in Wrexham.

Ezeikial

04/08/2014, 9:31 AM

Everyone adheres to the rules. There's no choice in the matter. Exceptions can be granted by UEFA, but clubs must appeal for such. I'm not sure, but perhaps that was the case with Stjarnan. TNS might have played Bohs in the second qualifying round of the Champions League a few years ago at their home stadium in Oswestry, but it wasn't suitable for the third round qualifier against Anderlecht. The home fixture in that tie was played at the Racecourse Ground in Wrexham.

I'm fairly sure that it is the national associations - not the clubs - that apply for exceptions, and that any exceptions granted apply to all clubs within that association.

DannyInvincible

04/08/2014, 9:43 AM

Perhaps you're right. I'm open to correction.

To use a well-known example though, did Celtic not apply themselves to play in Murrayfield before moving back to Celtic Park? Or did the SFA apply on their behalf? In what sense would the exception granted to Celtic to play their early games in Murrayfield and later games back in Celtic Park apply to all clubs within the association? Or are you referring to the relaxation of infrastructural stipulations alone?

DannyInvincible

04/08/2014, 10:01 AM

Not that Celtic look likely to progress much further anyway!

Obviously, adherence to the regulations is a condition of participation. If it was the case that any exceptions granted are done on a general associational (rather than club-specific) basis, however, I would imagine the fact that we have stadia within the territory of the FAI capable of fulfilling all the criteria would weaken any Irish bargaining power, if you will.

TonyD

04/08/2014, 10:46 AM

Their budget is irrelevant though surely? Of course, give Pat's �30 million to spend and they'd probably put together a team capable of reaching the group stages, but at the end of the day, while Pat's had a chance, in truth, Legia are miles better in all departments.

Anything can happen over 180 minutes of football, but realistically, Legia were always going to win out in the end.

Budget is hardly irrelevant, if it is then why do you say that given �30 million Pats would be able to compete at that level ? Of course Legia were better. They've every right to be given the amount of money that they have to spend compared to Pats. Teams with bigger budgets will always be more successful than those with less money, though one off shocks can happen at times. That's what Pats were hoping against hope for against Legia, and the first leg did give us a glimmer of hope, but you're right they were always favourites, even after the first leg. And it must be borne in mind the circumstances of the 5-0. Pats defence was decimated in the last 20minutes and that's when the extra goals went in. Pats wouldn't have won with a full defence out, but it wouldn't have been 5 goals.

DannyInvincible

04/08/2014, 10:58 PM

I'm fairly sure that it is the national associations - not the clubs - that apply for exceptions, and that any exceptions granted apply to all clubs within that association.

Just getting a chance to check the regulations now and there's this in article 13.02 of the current Europa League rule-book (http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/94/62/40/1946240_DOWNLOAD.pdf):

The UEFA administration may grant an exception to a specific structural criterion for the stadium category in question in cases of particular hardship and upon reasoned request, for instance owing to the current national legislation or if the fulfilment of all the required criteria would force a club to play its home matches on the territory of another association. An exception can be granted for one or more matches in the competition or for the whole duration of the competition. Such decisions are final.

The Champions League regulations (http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/94/62/34/1946234_DOWNLOAD.pdf) state the very same.

It doesn't exactly specify whether or not a request for exemption should come from a club or its governing association, but it does seem to indicate that exceptions are granted on a match-specific basis. Wouldn't that imply then that any decision would not apply across the board to all clubs competing under a shared association?

This article from October last year furthermore suggests it is the clubs who appeal to UEFA themselves: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24758149

Celtic's chief executive Peter Lawwell had asked Uefa to look at options for the tie, including stadiums outside Scotland.

Speaking earlier this week Lawwell said: "We are currently in discussion with Uefa in terms of what options we have.

Or, at least Celtic were in direct discussion with UEFA anyway about finding an alternative to Celtic Park whilst it was being used for the Commonwealth Games.

patsdad

06/08/2014, 9:27 PM

Aggregate result: Legia 6 Celtic 1. Exactly the same as the Legia-Pats tie. But that one would have been 3-1 but for all four selected defenders for Pats suffering injuries (one of whom had to play out the last few minutes while unable to run).

The barstoolers had a right go at Pats over the result, but tonight's result puts it into context (as does the quote today from a Legia player that Pats were better tan Celtic as far as Legia could see).

ArdeeBhoy

06/08/2014, 9:42 PM

If you really believe that, you're on some good sh*t...

Celtic are cack currently, but 99 times out of a 100 they'd beat any LOI team.

ger121

06/08/2014, 10:01 PM

If you really believe that, you're on some good sh*t...

Celtic are cack currently, but 99 times out of a 100 they'd beat any LOI team.

I don't believe he did say that Pat's were better than Celtic, he said that a Legia player had said that.

This is the article in question

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10409052_780478005328203_4014758613669535968_n.jpg

ArdeeBhoy

06/08/2014, 10:37 PM

Yeah, saw that. Maybe they were. If so, fair play...
But their records in Europe in the last 30-40 years are not exactly comparable.

patsdad

06/08/2014, 11:00 PM

All I am saying is that St Pats performed better against Legia than Celtic did. That reflects how they stand rignt now, nothing to do with the last 30-40 years.

ArdeeBhoy

07/08/2014, 2:25 AM

Er, in one game each, away in Warsaw. And their overall 'performances' were both pretty poor, each losing 1-6 on aggregate!

Charlie Darwin

07/08/2014, 2:35 AM

Pats have **** all money and are based in a country where people don't give a fig about supporting their own sides, to the point they were outnumbered in their own hometown. As somebody said earlier in the thread or somewhere else, what's Celtic's excuse? Anybody could see that Pats outperformed Celtic over their respective ties. Even the Legia players have said that Pats gave them a far sterner test than Celtic managed.

You just seem to, for whatever reason, pride or something, be stubbornly refusing to admit that an Irish team, in spite of all their inherent disadvantages, managed to show more guts and class than your Scottish boys. From what I remember, you pulled the same act when Rovers qualified for the Europa League while the brave Celts were busy having their bellies tickled by Kyle Lafferty's future employers.

Sheridan

07/08/2014, 8:46 AM

If you really believe that, you're on some good sh*t...

Celtic are cack currently, but 99 times out of a 100 they'd beat any LOI team.
Balls they would! That wasn't true 16 years ago (Pat's vs. Tims), and it's not true now.

Incidentally, a juvenile male is a "boy", the "h" in your nick is superfluous. Just so you know.

Louth4sam

07/08/2014, 8:52 AM

PartySaint

07/08/2014, 9:35 AM

[QUOTE=Charlie Darwin;1770804] to the point they were outnumbered in their own hometown. [QUOTE=Charlie Darwin;1770804]

We weren't but the rest of your point stands :)

There's no point comparing results really, we don''t have a clue how Pats vs Celtic would have panned out. I think we might have ran them close but we'll never know.

I hope Legia can go on now and qualify for the Champions League

White Horse

07/08/2014, 9:47 AM

We weren't but the rest of your point stands :)

There's no point comparing results really, we don''t have a clue how Pats vs Celtic would have panned out. I think we might have ran them close but we'll never know.

I hope Legia can go on now and qualify for the Champions League

I think you would have given them a game.

ArdeeBhoy

07/08/2014, 9:52 AM

On the evidence of last week, definitely.
As for Legia and their fascist fans, they can GTF.

PartySaint

07/08/2014, 10:15 AM

On the evidence of last week, definitely.
As for Legia and their fascist fans, they can GTF.

They can GTF all the way to the Champions League while Celtic with their bigot fans go to the Europa play-off

Dodge

07/08/2014, 10:29 AM

Er, in one game each, away in Warsaw. And their overall 'performances' were both pretty poor, each losing 1-6 on aggregate!

The big difference was that Pats were in the tie for 150 minutes of it. They ran out of defenders but there's no question Pats performed better than Celtic did against Legia

Anyone who disagrees with that is either an idiot, biased or both.

bennocelt

07/08/2014, 10:57 AM

On current form I honestly believe that Dundalk would have a good chance against Celtic as would most of the teams at the top end of the league. Well maybe not Rovers
The Scottish league is seriously in decline, even more so with three of it's biggest clubs in the second tier.

Yet a few LOI teams couldnt beat a poor Rosenberg, Belarussian or H Split team. Please be reminded that the LOI is currently placed 40th in Europe before we lose the run of ourselves!!!

marinobohs

07/08/2014, 11:10 AM

Yet a few LOI teams couldnt beat a poor Rosenberg, Belarussian or H Split team. Please be reminded that the LOI is currently placed 40th in Europe before we lose the run of ourselves!!!

Don't think anyone losing the run of themselves, just pointing out Pats result V Legia more respectable than Celtics, given resources etc.

Unfortunately it appears impossible to comment on Celtic (unless how glorious they are :rolleyes:) without drawing the ire of the Celtic brigade.

Scottish football is sh1t and the demise of Rangers turned a two horse race into a one donkey derby. IMHO Celtic will continue to decline unless they get out of the SPL or some other club finds a sugar daddy and provides some opposition.

Irish football will continue to decline because the FAI and general population don't give a fuk about it.

Louth4sam

07/08/2014, 11:41 AM

H Split team. Please be reminded that the LOI is currently placed 40th in Europe before we lose the run of ourselves!!!

Dundalk beat Hajduk Split in Split and were a kick of the ball from putting them out. We had enough chances over both legs to go through.
The SPL is a poor league with Celtic being a whale in a small pond. They are also not the side they were over past few seasons and are shocking at the minute. The SPL is ranked 24 does this mean that Celtic cannot beat any teams in the top leagues?

Mr A

07/08/2014, 11:45 AM

I would love to see the day when the LOI was close to as good as the SPL. Fully pro, decent stadia, great crowds considering the population. All it needs now is for Celtic to go back far enough or the others to improve enough for other teams to start winning it.

bennocelt

07/08/2014, 12:06 PM

Don't think anyone losing the run of themselves, just pointing out Pats result V Legia more respectable than Celtics, given resources etc.

Unfortunately it appears impossible to comment on Celtic (unless how glorious they are :rolleyes:) without drawing the ire of the Celtic brigade.

Scottish football is sh1t and the demise of Rangers turned a two horse race into a one donkey derby. IMHO Celtic will continue to decline unless they get out of the SPL or some other club finds a sugar daddy and provides some opposition.

Irish football will continue to decline because the FAI and general population don't give a fuk about it.

fair enuff but some are going on about if Pats beat this team and if Sligo beat Rosenberg..............I mean come on they didnt beat what was put infront of them.
And yes fair dues to Dundalk they were unlucky this year.

nigel-harps1954

07/08/2014, 1:54 PM

fair enuff but some are going on about if Pats beat this team and if Sligo beat Rosenberg..............I mean come on they didnt beat what was put infront of them.
And yes fair dues to Dundalk they were unlucky this year.

Well, in all fairness, Pat's were three minutes from beating Legia in Poland and got a commendable draw against the odds, Sligo did beat Rosenborg in Norway, Dundalk did beat Hajduk in Croatia. The League of Ireland is steadily growing, albeit at a very small pace. Whilst we're nowhere near the like of Celtic, we're certainly not far off the standard of the rest of the SPL, a league that's only hanging on due to the stature of Celtic at the minute.

Only Derry can come out of this being whipped by everyone else for being sh!te. :D

Charlie Darwin

07/08/2014, 6:29 PM

Hajduk 2-0 up at half-time in their tie with Shakhtar Karagandy, putting them ahead on away goals. They're this year's Celtic (from last year, not this year).

pineapple stu

07/08/2014, 6:57 PM

Rosenborg out though; beaten on away goals by Karabukspor.

Stjarnan beat Lech Poznan.

Soligorsk draw at home against Zulte Waregem; win 7-4 on aggregate.

ger121

07/08/2014, 7:07 PM

What a great run by Stjarnan. Wonder are they the first Icelandic team to win through 3 rounds. Just goes to show that it can be done.

ger121

07/08/2014, 8:10 PM

Sheridan

07/08/2014, 8:21 PM

DannyInvincible

07/08/2014, 8:29 PM

If and it's a big if,Legia where booted out of the CL. Would they go into the EL play-off round or is there any chance Pat's would be parachuted in instead?

http://www.thescore.ie/champions-league-celtic-ineligible-player-1609386-Aug2014/

Certainly a big if. I don't see Legia being booted out based on the Debrecen case from 2010. Debrecen were 4-1 up when they fielded Peter Mate for the final three minutes of stoppage time in a tie against Litex Lovech. UEFA ruled that Debrecen had "no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour" and fined them �15,000 rather than disqualifying them. With Legia already 6-1 up, I don't see UEFA going against a precedent like that.