16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[blueblood]

This is a strang strange country we live in absolutly no sign of common sense...again. How do such idiots have all the power. There HAS to be at least at 14 team premier or the league is f*cked

[legendz]

Why doe you always post about the number of games? This isn't a factor for pretty much every club.

The number of games is important in some respects. 26 games would be a bit short for example.

[legendz]

I still think the league should go with the 16 team Premier. By the looks of things, they were only looking to include the five A Championship clubs in regional first division below it. I think they can only promote two max to a national league at the moment.

[BonnieShels]

Right I'm sick of this bull from the FAI.
there has to be some mad reason that this is a goer in there minds. Surely they can't ber all that ****ing thick.
I think the NLEC are blinded by english footabll and their hopes to emulate it and therefore this attempt to have some sort of pyramid sytem is what's going to kill us.
A 16 team premier and a lower division with CLEAR access and a path from the provinces is what we need. No more. No less.
I am kinda open to regional leagues. It does not matter if we have straightforward relegation from the lower league or not and why we think we do I don't understand. We need to be radical but we need to be radical with an idea that will work otherwise it's in vain.
The calendar needs to be standarised (not with the lower leagues just amongst the LOI) so that for example where England is good we can replicate. We all know that St Stephen's Day and New Years Day are important league days in England along with the first weekend in January which is an FA Cup weekend. We should be aiming to emulate these sorts of things which will bring bigger exposure to the league. Eg. St Stephen's Day fixtures could be a rivals weekend: Bohs v Shams, Shels v Pats, Derry v Harps, Sligo v Galway, Cork v Waterford, Longford v Athlone etc. Lack of consistency is what kills the LOI. This is not the be all and end all. But these are just things I've noticed with other sports and it is the big connections amongst them all.

[mediahack]

The number of games is important in some respects. 26 games would be a bit short for example.

I think the big issue too is that 36 games are too much and with League Cup and FAI Cup added in it means that there are too many weeks with midweek games.

Given the economic situation we are really only looking at part time players so those that are also working full time will find it extremely difficult to get off work to play midweek games.

Keeping the figure arouond 30 games is ideal so the season is not compromised in any way and the amount of midweek games is dramatically reduced.

I think there is also the issue of the midseason break - there was never one during winter football when it was probably more justified! Why stop in the middle of summer!!!

[MariborKev]

I think the NLEC are blinded by english footabll

and yet a few lines later


where England is good we can replicate.

[BonnieShels]

That's selective quoting Kev. And also horrendous spelling and grammar from me.


I think the NLEC are blinded by english footabll and their hopes to emulate it and therefore this attempt to have some sort of pyramid sytem is what's going to kill us.


The calendar needs to be standarised...so that for example where England is good we can replicate.

In other words take what's good from England (and anywhere else for that matter) and leave them with stuff that won't/doesn't work (35+ games in a league season, pyramid system, League Cup). I don't see how else I could explain that?

[culloty82]

Just looking at the regionalised first division, this is how it would look at the moment, promoting Derry and Monaghan and saving Drogheda:

North
A.N. Other FC
Athlone Town
Castlebar Celtic
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Tullamore Town

South:
Cobh Ramblers
Cork City
FC Carlow
Limerick FC
Shelbourne
Tralee Dynamos
Waterford United
Wexford Youths

They both would look like very weak sections.

[blueblood]

[QUOTE=BonnieShels;1428898]Right I'm sick of this bull from the FAI.
there has to be some mad reason that this is a goer in there minds. Surely they can't ber all that ****ing thick.

Maybe the FAI have some secret 3rd party agreement where they have to have a crappy league ;)

[legendz]

A few things can be gathered from the meeting.

The proposed 12 team Premier still has sides playing 4 times in the league and it has not got much support.
Division One clubs left behind do not want to be in a regional league.
They are not looking to promote any A Championship sides to a national league.

As a result:

They should go with a 14 or 16 team Premier.
At most only 2 clubs will be invited to a national First Division from the A Championship.
Division One likely to remain a national league with 8 or 10 clubs.

[Dodge]

You're making a helluva lot of assumptions there based on 2nd and third hand reports

[legendz]

It's what I can see happening anyway. I can't see there being more than 24 national league clubs. I can't see 20 of the current 22 national league clubs looking to play in a regional set-up. If the Premier becomes a 14 or 16 club division, the remainder would have to fill Division One unless they do agree to the regional format.

[legendz]

Just looking at the regionalised first division, this is how it would look at the moment, promoting Derry and Monaghan and saving Drogheda:

North
A.N. Other FC
Athlone Town
Castlebar Celtic
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Tullamore Town

South:
Cobh Ramblers
Cork City
FC Carlow
Limerick FC
Shelbourne
Tralee Dynamos
Waterford United
Wexford Youths

They both would look like very weak sections.

If it was split into the groups outline above, would they be playing each other over 4 series of games? If they are going back to the drawing board, they might come up with a Division One that has a national division of 8 below the Premier of 16.

[Lim till i die]

North
A.N. Other FC
Athlone Town
Castlebar Celtic
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Tullamore Town

South:
Cobh Ramblers
Cork City
FC Carlow
Limerick FC
Shelbourne
Tralee Dynamos
Waterford United
Wexford Youths

They both would look like very weak sections.

Southern Section far too strong compared to Northern one.

Also not a jot of evidence this would be on cards

[BonnieShels]

I found my mental LOI reorganisation that I did a year ago. It was not feasible but looking at it again there are some ideas I think are radical and feasible and in fact would solve some of the problems that we come up with every so often. whilst it's not a conclusive solution to the problems I think that some of the ideas could be embraced. I also am aware that we are not the NLEc or the FAI but it's better that the ideas are out in the domain of foot.ie rather than stuck on my hdd.
I have to sort it out into notepad so bear with me and I will get it up ASAP.

[Sam_Heggy]

If it was split into the groups outline above, would they be playing each other over 4 series of games? If they are going back to the drawing board, they might come up with a Division One that has a national division of 8 below the Premier of 16.

How do you feel about the proposal put forward to scrap the A League?

[BonnieShels]

Premier Division: 14 teams Home and Away
Bohs
Bray
Cork
Derry
Monaghan United
Dundalk
Galway
Shams
Shels
Sligo
Fingal
Pats
Waterford

First Division: 14 teams Home and Away
Limerick
Drogheda
Wexford Youths
Finn Harps
Longford
Athlone
Salthill
Mervue
Connacht/Ulster Winner
Connacht/Ulster Runner-up
Leinster Winner
Leinster Runner-up
Munster Winner
Munster Runner-up

Regional Divisions:
Connacht/Ulster 8 teams
Leinster 8 teams
Munster 8 teams

Cups:
FAI Cup: All clubs in Ireland. (Preliminary rounds required, open-draw). Round 1 of 32.
League Cup: All PD and FD clubs from that season (Preliminary rounds required, open-draw). Round 1 of 16.

European places:
PD 1st: Champions League
PD 2nd: Europa League
PD 3rd v 4th v 5th v League Cup Winner: Europa League
FAI Cup Winner: Europa League

In the plan there would be a regional round robin in December/January with each team in each regional division playing each other once. The winner and runner-up will be deemed promoted to the FD for the forthcoming season. At the end of the season there would be 6 relegations back to the appropriate regions for the following season's round robin. The teams in each region would be nominated by the appropriate provincial FA based on certain criteria such as performance etc.
If for example Cherry Orchard were promoted from the Leinster region and finished in 8th at the end of the FD season and Salthill finished in 9th then Salthill would be deemed relegated back to their region, ie. Connacht. Some rejigging a la Blue Square North and South would be required.

Relegation from PD: 13th and 14th
Promotion from FD: 1st and 2nd

The calendar would need to be developed in a nice neat fashion and in a way where we can expect certain things to happen as a given on certain days, eg. 2nd Saturday in February big-kick off game in Lansdowne between x and y a la the FAI Cup final this season to encourage a launch feeling and then the next day have the rest of the clubs play their first round games then revert to Friday night schedule as normal with a televised game on Saturday evening, have a rivalry round scenario on the May bank holiday weekend, October Bank Holiday Sunday can be League Cup Final day etc.

Anyway that was the gist.

[Sam_Heggy]

Premier Division: 14 teams Home and Away
Bohs
Bray
Cork
Derry
Monaghan United
Dundalk
Galway
Shams
Shels
Sligo
Fingal
Pats
Waterford

First Division: 14 teams Home and Away
Limerick
Drogheda
Wexford Youths
Finn Harps
Longford
Athlone
Salthill
Mervue
Connacht/Ulster Winner
Connacht/Ulster Runner-up
Leinster Winner
Leinster Runner-up
Munster Winner
Munster Runner-up

Regional Divisions:
Connacht/Ulster 8 teams
Leinster 8 teams
Munster 8 teams

Cups:
FAI Cup: All clubs in Ireland. (Preliminary rounds required, open-draw). Round 1 of 32.
League Cup: All PD and FD clubs from that season (Preliminary rounds required, open-draw). Round 1 of 16.

European places:
PD 1st: Champions League
PD 2nd: Europa League
PD 3rd v 4th v 5th v League Cup Winner: Europa League
FAI Cup Winner: Europa League

In the plan there would be a regional round robin in December/January with each team in each regional division playing each other once. The winner and runner-up will be deemed promoted to the FD for the forthcoming season. At the end of the season there would be 6 relegations back to the appropriate regions for the following season's round robin. The teams in each region would be nominated by the appropriate provincial FA based on certain criteria such as performance etc.
If for example Cherry Orchard were promoted from the Leinster region and finished in 8th at the end of the FD season and Salthill finished in 9th then Salthill would be deemed relegated back to their region, ie. Connacht. Some rejigging a la Blue Square North and South would be required.

Relegation from PD: 13th and 14th
Promotion from FD: 1st and 2nd

The calendar would need to be developed in a nice neat fashion and in a way where we can expect certain things to happen as a given on certain days, eg. 2nd Saturday in February big-kick off game in Lansdowne between x and y a la the FAI Cup final this season to encourage a launch feeling and then the next day have the rest of the clubs play their first round games then revert to Friday night schedule as normal with a televised game on Saturday evening, have a rivalry round scenario on the May bank holiday weekend, October Bank Holiday Sunday can be League Cup Final day etc.

Anyway that was the gist.

Finally, someone who believes UCD should not be in senior football. Snotty students the lot of them.

[BonnieShels]

Finally, someone who believes UCD should not be in senior football. Snotty students the lot of them.

DOH!!!

[legendz]

I'm not for BonnieShels plan anyway.
6 relegations from the First Division is a bit much. If anything, the bottom two sides in Division One should be feeding to a league with two regional groups below it.
From these two regional leagues then, the bottom 2 or 3 in each group of the leagues, 4 or 6 in total, would be relegated to the provincial league or whatever is below them.

On the subject of the 12 team division.
1. Shamrock Rovers ... Champions League
2. Bohemians ... Europa League
3. Sligo Rovers ... Europa League Play-off
4. St Patricks Athletic ... Europa League Play-off
5. Sporting Fingal FC ... Europa League Play-off
6. Dundalk ... Europa League Play-off
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
7. UCD ... Europa League Play-off
8. Galway United ... Europa League Play-off
9. Bray Wanderers
10. Drogheda United
11. Derry City ... Relegation/Promotion Play-off
12. Waterford United ... Relegation

I'm not for this format but if they decide to press on with this format of a split, there'll have to be some carrot for finishing high up in the second section. This can be provided by way of a Europa League play-off. It's what they're doing in Wales. The Netherland have Europa League play-offs as well.
Wales have a messy format where 5 are involved. What the LoI could do is, have 5th play 8th and 6th play 7th in a one off game. If the FAI Cup winner is in the top 8, 9th place would qualify for the play-offs.
In the next round then 3rd play lowest ranked side and 4th play second lowest ranked side in a one off game. The play-off final then should be played over two-legs.

[BonnieShels]

I'm not for BonnieShels plan anyway.
6 relegations from the First Division is a bit much. If anything, the bottom two sides in Division One should be feeding to a league with two regional groups below it.
From these two regional leagues then, the bottom 2 or 3 in each group of the leagues, 4 or 6 in total, would be relegated to the provincial league or whatever is below them.

On the subject of the 12 team division.
1. Shamrock Rovers ... Champions League
2. Bohemians ... Europa League
3. Sligo Rovers ... Europa League Play-off
4. St Patricks Athletic ... Europa League Play-off
5. Sporting Fingal FC ... Europa League Play-off
6. Dundalk ... Europa League Play-off
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
7. UCD ... Europa League Play-off
8. Galway United ... Europa League Play-off
9. Bray Wanderers
10. Drogheda United
11. Derry City ... Relegation/Promotion Play-off
12. Waterford United ... Relegation

I'm not for this format but if they decide to press on with this format of a split, there'll have to be some carrot for finishing high up in the second section. This can be provided by way of a Europa League play-off. It's what they're doing in Wales. The Netherland have Europa League play-offs as well.
Wales have a messy format where 5 are involved. What the LoI could do is, have 5th play 8th and 6th play 7th in a one off game. If the FAI Cup winner is in the top 8, 9th place would qualify for the play-offs.
In the next round then 3rd play lowest ranked side and 4th play second lowest ranked side in a one off game. The play-off final then should be played over two-legs.

I initially made it six last year when I thought of it and that's what I posted. You could make it 4 or 3 or one or 2 or 7. Whatever works. But I was more concerned as to how you would integrate the regionality in a nice orderly fashion with a FD. The problem with Ireland is that we have our set regions ie. the provinces, but trying to get them to be integrated on an equal footing without having a long season of dead rubbers and drudgery. If the regional teams knew that all they had to do to to get league football was a pre-season round robin then I'm sure the ease of this process would be a carrot.
The one thing I have a massive problem with is the calendar and I want more than anything for this to be sorted.

[Sam_Heggy]

I'm not for BonnieShels plan anyway.
6 relegations from the First Division is a bit much. If anything, the bottom two sides in Division One should be feeding to a league with two regional groups below it.
From these two regional leagues then, the bottom 2 or 3 in each group of the leagues, 4 or 6 in total, would be relegated to the provincial league or whatever is below them.

On the subject of the 12 team division.
1. Shamrock Rovers ... Champions League
2. Bohemians ... Europa League
3. Sligo Rovers ... Europa League Play-off
4. St Patricks Athletic ... Europa League Play-off
5. Sporting Fingal FC ... Europa League Play-off
6. Dundalk ... Europa League Play-off
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
7. UCD ... Europa League Play-off
8. Galway United ... Europa League Play-off
9. Bray Wanderers
10. Drogheda United
11. Derry City ... Relegation/Promotion Play-off
12. Waterford United ... Relegation

I'm not for this format but if they decide to press on with this format of a split, there'll have to be some carrot for finishing high up in the second section. This can be provided by way of a Europa League play-off. It's what they're doing in Wales. The Netherland have Europa League play-offs as well.
Wales have a messy format where 5 are involved. What the LoI could do is, have 5th play 8th and 6th play 7th in a one off game. If the FAI Cup winner is in the top 8, 9th place would qualify for the play-offs.
In the next round then 3rd play lowest ranked side and 4th play second lowest ranked side in a one off game. The play-off final then should be played over two-legs.

But, how many games would they play?

[culloty82]

The regional leagues are an excellent idea, I'd agree with legendz that 6 relegations seem a bit much for a 14-team league, maybe the winners would replace the worst team in each province, but at least plenty of joined-up thinking, and a link-up with the county leagues would allow for a four-tier pyramid.

[Nesta99]

The split thing was a disaster last time around, we ended up in it the first year and it was a graveward, worse than the first division!

Id sooner a 16 team premier than this split rubbish or the old woefull play eachother 3 times. In my oponion the only to build up interest across the country is having the "big" teams coming to town every so often.

Look at Athlone, struggling in the first division with great facilities but poor crowds. If Rovers or Derry or Pats were in town, they'd have some chance of getting the local day trippers out for the game, combined with a noisy away crowd, the whole experience might get some fans hooked.

Taken from Oriel Web, posted by Jim Murphy the Author of the excellent 'History of Dundalk fc'

1992-93 season was the first time that the teams (12) were split off after two rounds (22 games). There was then two more rounds in each of the two groups (10 more games) to give a 32-game season. In the first phase Dundalk finished in 5th place and made into the top group for the final 10 games. That was the year when the Boh’s bus broke down on the way to Oriel Park for the final game when they needed just a single point to clinch the Championship. To complete the day Tom McNulty hammered in the winner in the second half.
The experiment was repeated the following year (1993-94) and this time Dundalk failed to make the top flight. The attendances at Oriel Park for the last 5 games were as follows:
Cobh 410; Monaghan 293; Drogheda 288; Limerick 170; St Patrick’s Ath. 175….a grand total of 1276, or an average of 255 per game.
This was half the total in the games against the same teams in the first phase.

????????????

[legendz]

But, how many games would they play?

Firstly, just to reiterate once more, I am not for the split. If they do push is through though I'm just looking at how it could work in the best interests of the game.

In the league phase, clubs will play 22 games before the split. After the split they'll play a further 10 resulting in a 32 game season.
The play-offs if introduced would add 3 or 4 games for the sides getting to the final. It's close enough to the number of relegation play-off games at present.

When the split was run before, like mentioned above for Dundalk, there was no carrot for finishing top of the second section. Europa League play-offs would at least give the top sides in the second section something meaningful to play for.

In some leagues with a split, the second section is called the relegation group. It's not really a positive name and marketing is important. As I say, I'm not for the split but if they do go with it, they might want to name the second section the Premier Shield Division or something like that with a shield for the winner and the Europa League play-offs as mentioned.

At the end of the day, I support calls for the 16 team Premier. In the current climate, if the remaining 6 clubs want to stay in a national non-regional league, Division One can only possibly survive as a division of 8 until such a time as more clubs come through. With the mooted regional division one of two groups of 8, they seemed to be planning 8 teams playing over 4 series anyway. If that's in the plan already, they can use it for a singe division of 8 below the Premier of 16.

[legendz]

Europa League Play-offs this year based on rankings, in a split league, would have worked out something like:
Sligo being Cup winners, Bray 9th would be included in the EL play-offs:

Round 1 (one-off game)
Dundalk (6th) - Bray (9th)
UCD (7th) - Galway (8th)
(for arguments sake, Dundalk and UCD get through based on rank)

Play-off Semi-finals (one-off game)
Sp. Fingal (4th) - UCD (7th)
St. Pats (5th) - Dundalk (6th)

Europa League Play-off Final (two-legs)
Sp. Fingal (4th) - St. Pat's (5th)

[Dodge]

The attendances at Oriel Park for the last 5 games were as follows:
... St Patrick’s Ath. 175….

I was at that game. I'd guess 50 at the game were Pats fans. And dundalk were still a big club then

[Nesta99]

I was at that game. I'd guess 50 at the game were Pats fans. And dundalk were still a big club then

Exactly the reason why the split league format has been and will be a disaster! For big clubs and small and those who shrunk in the wash over the years.....

[legendz]

I hope they press on with a 16 Premier and take a leaf out of the Dutch League's book and have a Europa League play-off for the last place.
If they go with the play-off, they might have to play the FAI Cup final before the league ends but I see no harm in that. The final this year was great. If it was in October though, after the high profile of it, it'd have been good if there was about 3 or 4 rounds of the league left. The EL play-offs then would add a bit more spice and excitement at the end of the season.
Another good move would be moving the League Cup final to the Aviva. The Aviva is a stadium which can be used more to promote the domestic game. The League Cup final is the only other game which could be realistically moved there. It nearly promotes the game itself without marketing.
The domestic game would be looking at about 3 months of higher profile games:
Middle of September: League Cup Final in the Aviva.
Middle of October: FAI Cup Final in the Aviva.
November: Final rounds of the league run-in and possible play-offs.

[Verdebianco]

No no,no this 12 team league set up can't happen. I'm livid, I think I should be louther in my protests, I'm gonna go to the FAI and set myself on fire........

[Mario]

Many years of cold winters lie ahead

WE ARE likely to experience several years of colder winters with more frequent cold spells similar to the current conditions, according to a UK climate expert ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1130/1224284431435.html

[Mr A]

If the colder winters are related to the solar activity cycle, then it won't be 'many years of cold winters' since the cycle is 11 years long. (I appreciate that wasn't your headline by the way). Plus this isn't a new thing and winter football managed to survive it many times before.

[Dodge]

If the colder winters are related to the solar activity cycle, then it won't be 'many years of cold winters' since the cycle is 11 years long. (I appreciate that wasn't your headline by the way). Plus this isn't a new thing and winter football managed to survive it many times before.

As it does in other countries still

[marinobohs]

Many years of cold winters lie ahead

WE ARE likely to experience several years of colder winters with more frequent cold spells similar to the current conditions, according to a UK climate expert ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1130/1224284431435.html

Nice idea - basing the LOI structure around long term weather forecasts and probobly makes as much sense as any other proposal to change :rolleyes:

[peadar1987]

As it does in other countries still

Other countries who can afford roofs on their stadia and undersoil heating though.

[Charlie Darwin]

It looks like the Blackpool-Manchester United game at the weekend is a doubt due to the former's lack of undersoil heating. I believe Portsmouth had similar problems last winter.

[passerrby]

I would worry that the lose in revenue from ice cream sales would not be better than the increased sales of bovril therefore meaning that players could possibility not be paid ..perish the thought

[crc]

The Aviva is a stadium which can be used more to promote the domestic game.
Totally agree.

The League Cup final is the only other game which could be realistically moved there.
I would suggest having a round of league games at the Aviva Stadium. Most likely a double or tripple header. You could even do what rugby league to with the Magic / Millennium Weekend and play an entire series of games (involving every club) at the stadium over one weekend.

Having been at the FAI Cup Final I can say that I can't wait to see another LoI game there.

[passerrby]

ya Mons V salthill

[legendz]

Nice idea - basing the LOI structure around long term weather forecasts and probobly makes as much sense as any other proposal to change :rolleyes:

It is a good idea isn't it!?

All SPL fixtures are cancelled for this weekend though, GAA club games being affected as well. The LoI seems to have finished at a good time!

[legendz]

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Plans+for+a+12-team+Premier+in+2012+ready+to+be+passed.-a0242823680

I can't believe clubs are going to agree to a 12 team Premier. What are the advantages to the lower half of a Division like this?
Why will 10 Division One clubs want to move from a national to a regional league? Cobh were battling hard to try and achieve that status this season.
For the five existing A Championship clubs it will be a good move. Being part of a regional First Division will be better than the A Championship.

[BonnieShels]

Blah blah blah blah blah.
Ffs, is there any FA on this planet as bad as ours?
What a lucky little country we are, two poxy FAs for the price of one.

[legendz]

This regionalised First Division that's coming, is there going to be a trophy for the champion of each section or a play-off between the top clubs of each section for the Division One title?
I'd imagine it'll be top club in each section will get automatic promotion. and possibly a play-off between the two second placed sides with the winner taking on 10th of the Premier in a promotion/relegation final.

[legendz]

Just looking at the regionalised first division, this is how it would look at the moment, promoting Derry and Monaghan and saving Drogheda:

North
A.N. Other FC
Athlone Town
Castlebar Celtic
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Tullamore Town

South:
Cobh Ramblers
Cork City
FC Carlow
Limerick FC
Shelbourne
Tralee Dynamos
Waterford United
Wexford Youths

They both would look like very weak sections.

I like the look of the Southern section. While I'd like to see more Munster teams in the Premier, Tralee will enjoy 4 Munster derbies in that division.

[Sam_Heggy]

So Fanad United to be joining the 1st Division?

How is Donegal meant to support 2 senior sides?

[outspoken]

God that northern section looks really really bad at least we have a chance of winning it

[nigel-harps1954]

To be perfectly honest, I'd be shocked if Harps didn't win that northern section.
I don't often post here, rather read posts, but I had to state that this is the most ridiculous idea I have seen from the FAI in many many years.
An absolute outrage and makes even more of a mockery of themselves than before. It's a complete joke and especially the first division idea sickens me and makes a joke of all the teams in the respective first divisions. 8 teams? Play each other 4 times? How the hell does this solve anything?

[cornflakes]

ya I agree nigel, as a youths fan id be delighted to play a team like carlow. It could create a bit of a rivalry and maybe more interest but to play them or anyone 4 times takes away from the fixture (as it does now). But I think a 16 team single division wouldn't be a good idea either, too many meaningless games for most teams.
To be honest I haven't a clue what they can do with the first division tho

[nigel-harps1954]

To be honest. 14 teams in each division makes sense to me.

[peadar1987]

ya I agree nigel, as a youths fan id be delighted to play a team like carlow. It could create a bit of a rivalry and maybe more interest but to play them or anyone 4 times takes away from the fixture (as it does now). But I think a 16 team single division wouldn't be a good idea either, too many meaningless games for most teams.
To be honest I haven't a clue what they can do with the first division tho

Ideally, make it bigger, and then have 2 rounds of games, I'd say.