16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[legendz]

My own preference would be for a 14 team league - each team plays each other twice, with play-offs for the Europa League and relegation. Shorten the season a bit and make it a bit easier for the flaoting fan to strike up a relationship with thier local club.

Not to go on but I will... 16 would be ideal for 4 groups of 4 in the league Cup as well.

14 would be way too short for the top level, I would see that being ok for intermediate leagues.

[Mario]

This change would have to be for the right reasons!

E.g. do Pats fans think that playing games on winter nights will bring back the big crowds of the Kerr & Dolan eras?

Many Pats fans I know who used to go to every game back then, now have to pick and choose not because of summer v winter but because they are no longer single, living at home and free to jump on the 78a at the drop of a hat and be down at to Ricmond in 15 mins. Plenty of these people are now living out in the commuter belt towns with kids, a wife, a mortgage and a pain in their arse commuting to and from Dublin all week.

Faced with options of either going home to collect the kids and going then back into the game or hanging around town after work, not being able to have a drink and then driving home out to the sticks for one of the less attractive fixtures, means that alot of people think feck it I'll go home have a few beers on the couch, keep an eye on the forum for the scores while surfing facebook and go the derby game two weeks from now instead.

Similar scenairo applies to many fans from others clubs too i'd imagine!

:-(

[Rasputin]

Report from the the Irish Independent via Pats Website: http://www.stpatsfc.com/media.php?id=4009

Personally I perfer the Winter football, but do not agree that the League should start in August think it should start a month/month & half earlier to help clubs prepare for Europe. As for the 16 club league its better than playing each other far too many time like pats v Sligo which I think is hitting 7/8 meeting for this season alone.

On a side note has any of the clubs which voted for this done any research into a return to winter football. e.g consult/poll you and me the paying customer/punter.
Yup exactly, if yee had bet Shams in the Semi Final that would have been our 8th meeting this season.
I dont care what anybody says, this ten team format is repetative and so so boring.
Consider that for our away trips this season 8 of those teams are either in Dublin or within an hour of Dublin, its soul destroying.
This League needs Cork, Derry, Waterford, Limerick etc, give it a bit more spice and variety.

[legendz]

People are giving out about the repetition and playing teams 4 times a year is terrible, but you wouldn't mind lumping that on other teams. Real Sound.

In the short term it'd have to be as the numbers aren't there to have a Division One of 14 clubs or more that they can play each other twice only.

[gufc2000]

Not to go on but I will... 16 would be ideal for 4 groups of 4 in the league Cup as well.

14 would be way too short for the top level, I would see that being ok for intermediate leagues.
The League Cup is already on its knees..it won't survive by introducing group stages. I think if it was replaced by an expanded Setanta Cup knock-out tournament, it would be far more interesting and beneficial.

How about a 14 team league? Play each other 3 times. 39 games, too many games perhaps?

[Shedendinvisibl]

I'm for a return to a winter league for many reasons.

The so called summer season we have begins at the end of winter (late Feb for pre season) and ends in winter (mid November) so ideas of weather being a factor to get people into games is a misnomer. Our warm sunny evenings are limited to maybe 3 months of the year the fact that we have still stuck with evening games makes it a trifle useless to take advantage of. The Scandinavian countries that play a summer season do so out of genuinely freezing weather and not a bit of rain as we get with other countries that get harsher winters than us such as Germany or Switzerland or even the UK managing just fine. A break can be taken before Xmas when crowds were low while teams can play the Xmas games which do well at the gate and maybe a break of 2 weeks after new years to fit in the cup or a mini break when gates always fell. Oh yeah, the point about player contracts is important as we not as attractive a place for comparably skilled UK footballers to look to Ireland to play for; some years ago players came to and from the north or non/low league UK clubs and clubs benefitted as a result.

The casual EFL fan associates football seasons as running from August to April as do the junior park footballers and there is this barrier that they assume summer is no football time. When the league went to night games it helped to raise the profile and crowds as there is something special about floodlights. The casual fans also made visits to our clubs when they have a Spurs or Leeds or whomever to see games, this marketing lever was lost when we couldn't offer friendlies that told people the season was beginning and as such our own pre season buzz was lost; the last few years saw some clubs have dismal crowds for early games as a result.

People also have summer holidays, GAA, Oxygen and festivals and mass concerts, golf, tennis, walking, barbecues etc to deal with. Clubs not only have to deal with apathy, they also have to cope with their other interests and ties getting in the way of games; there are different things in the way and things that clubs have no control over to deal with.

Also, the culling of the current scene of teams playing each other for up to 3-4 league games excluding cup games will make fixtures special again; Tuesday's cup replay was their sixth meeting this year!!! Plus with the admission of several new clubs it will instill a little more fresh blood into the leagues, some fresh away trips, derbies will be special again and fresh teams will make it better again as instills and renews the league wholesale. All the recent changes have been piecemeal; the 10/12 team league being a issue that teams have complained about several times over the years.

However, as has been mentioned the fans never get asked about changes like this but I doubt if Delaney and his donkeys will TBH.

[harps1954]

Remember folks, this is just a proposal that the clubs have put to the FAI. The FAI (or the League Executive Committee which John Delaney chairs) will make the final decision. They are meeting in Dublin today, and will decide whether to accept the proposals of the clubs. They might well stick to a ten team Premier but go with Winter football, or go with a 16 team league but stick to summer football. They might also decide to make no changes, which is the most likely outcome.

On another side note, RTE must send a camera to every Premier Division game as per their agreement with the FAI. Will they have a say? Will they send a camera to eight games every week if the league expanded to a 16 team Premier?

[PartySaint]

If there was to be a change to a 16 team league the clubs I would like to see in it would be:

Pats
Bohs
Rovers
Shels
Derry
Cork
Dundalk
Drogs
Sligo
Galway
Mons
Finn Harps
Limerick
Waterford
Longford
Athlone

If you club isnt there don't start bitching and moaning and telling me how well run yous are, I just don't like yous, simple as..

Oh and special mention for Cobh who I would also like to see it in at some stage

Jesus i forgot Bray, You guys can come to:)

[micls]

Summer Season


The pitches thing is a bit of red herring imo - we have matches postponed with a summer season for waterlogged and frozen pitches, and we have the crucial matches just as the weather and pitches turn (in a normal autumn).


But surely this proves it's not a red herring? If we're already having games postponed in February/March then surely we'll have even more postponed when you have november/ecember/January added to that.

If we had been playing winter football last season, we wouldn't have gotten a game played down here in December/January, certainly not one with people at it anyway

[Louth4sam]

You're also aware that the recent problems in the league have often been as a result of the top sides wanting what they want, and screw the rest?

Ten team league? "Top" side idea to give themselves more gate receipts. Platinum 1? Pushed by the "top" sides. Invitational leagues? Very much pushed by the "top" sides. Wage cap? Actively opposed by the "top" sides.

On that basis, I'd only ask Mervue what they reckon we should do to the league, and follow their suggestions to the letter.


Fair enough point but there has to be some sort of happy medium. I'm not saying that the big clubs should have all the power but should the strength of the league in Europe be sacrificed in the hope that a couple of dozen extra punters might come through the turnstyles? Also some of the standard of football this season has been excellent with Sligo, Bray and yourselves all trying to play the ball on the ground. What will happen when trying to play on bogs in the middle of winter?

[pineapple stu]

Should Mervue sacrifice their chances of growing their crowds to allow Bohs lose to a team of Latvians again?

[passinginterest]

I know junior football on public pitches is not a real comparison but I'm going to use it anyway (and considering the state of some League of Ireland grounds it's probably not that far off), last season we played once in November, not at all in December, once in January and once in February, pitches and conditions were appaling for four months. I know last year was exceptionally bad but there would have been serious disruption to the league.

I've been talking about a 16 team leauge for ages so cetainly in favour of that, but I think the summer season should be given another few years. I do think there are advantages to alignment with the UK leagues though, for loaning and signing players in particular.

[legendz]

The League Cup is already on its knees..it won't survive by introducing group stages. I think if it was replaced by an expanded Setanta Cup knock-out tournament, it would be far more interesting and beneficial.

How about a 14 team league? Play each other 3 times. 39 games, too many games perhaps?

Well if the League Cup was run with a group stage to make up the 6 games less a season, they could give in a Europa League place and a final in the Aviva.

[Louth4sam]

Should Mervue sacrifice their chances of growing their crowds to allow Bohs lose to a team of Latvians again?

If it meant more exposure for the league then yes they should. Is Mervue getting 120 rather than 110 supporters going to make the news headlines or improve the image of the league? Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television. I don't think it is possible to try and improve the strength of the league without increasing the gap between the strongest and the weakest clubs.

[Fester]

This change would have to be for the right reasons!

E.g. do Pats fans think that playing games on winter nights will bring back the big crowds of the Kerr & Dolan eras?

Many Pats fans I know who used to go to every game back then, now have to pick and choose not because of summer v winter but because they are no longer single, living at home and free to jump on the 78a at the drop of a hat and be down at to Ricmond in 15 mins. Plenty of these people are now living out in the commuter belt towns with kids, a wife, a mortgage and a pain in their arse commuting to and from Dublin all week.

Faced with options of either going home to collect the kids and going then back into the game or hanging around town after work, not being able to have a drink and then driving home out to the sticks for one of the less attractive fixtures, means that alot of people think feck it I'll go home have a few beers on the couch, keep an eye on the forum for the scores while surfing facebook and go the derby game two weeks from now instead.

Similar scenairo applies to many fans from others clubs too i'd imagine!

:-(

Funny enough that is exactly my predicament!! Will it bring back the crowds during the winter!! Maybe not. Teams like Pats need to re-invent themselves in their local area as many have moved as you say to the computer belts and have to pick and choose matches.

[brendy_éire]

The issue of switching to summer football is constantly being brought up in the IL. Funny that we're going the other way.

Personally, I love summer football. The weather's nicer, ye don't leave the ground with frostbite on your feet, and the drive home from away games isn't on roads covered with black ice.

Referring the IL, how many fixtures did they have called off last season? A few weekends, the only matches played were by Crusaders at home with their plastic pitch. We'd have the same problem in the LoI too (well, bar Dundalk, that is).

I don't mind the 16 team Premier, which probably does make more sense than our 10 team arrangement.
What I find a bit pathetic, is some clubs using summer football as an excuse for their failures on the pitch.

[pineapple stu]

Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television.
And the league will get as much good out of it as came of Shels' draw against Depor. That factor is seriously over-rated.

[Shedendinvisibl]

I know junior football on public pitches is not a real comparison but I'm going to use it anyway (and considering the state of some League of Ireland grounds it's probably not that far off), last season we played once in November, not at all in December, once in January and once in February, pitches and conditions were appaling for four months. I know last year was exceptionally bad but there would have been serious disruption to the league.

It is a red herring as council pitches will always be called off at the mere thought of rain or frost. LOI and clubs with private pitches have groundskeepers and maybe 2 games a week tops to cope with; some council pitches see 2-3 games a day twice a weekend on them and with no TLC either.

[Macy]

If it meant more exposure for the league then yes they should. Is Mervue getting 120 rather than 110 supporters going to make the news headlines or improve the image of the league? Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television. I don't think it is possible to try and improve the strength of the league without increasing the gap between the strongest and the weakest clubs.
And what was the result of all this exposure? Better an extra 10 through every gate all season than a bit of coverage for an exceptional draw for a couple of weeks for one club.

[Macy]

But surely this proves it's not a red herring? If we're already having games postponed in February/March then surely we'll have even more postponed when you have november/ecember/January added to that.

If we had been playing winter football last season, we wouldn't have gotten a game played down here in December/January, certainly not one with people at it anyway
I don't recall postponements being a major issue before. When was the last winter as hard as last year? And anyway, with less games there'd be more midweeks free for rearrangements.

[BohsPartisan]

I don't recall postponements being a major issue before. When was the last winter as hard as last year? And anyway, with less games there'd be more midweeks free for rearrangements.

Buckley Park was a regular for postponed games back in the day. Obviously that particular venue won't be an issue now but it will happen elsewhere.

[Dillonman]

Every club resorting to astroturf and no more giving out about Oriel! Get in there!:p

[Real ale Madrid]

Not to go on but I will... 16 would be ideal for 4 groups of 4 in the league Cup as well.

14 would be way too short for the top level, I would see that being ok for intermediate leagues.

But why would it be too short? Because its the done thing everywhere else?

At the moment we have 18 home league games at the top level, add in Setanta and the domestic cups - its too much - always has been, 13 home games per season would give the clubs a better chance to market the games better and possibly increase season ticket sales. Each game becomes automatically more important and if you can create a competitive division with bottom 4 and top 6 all rewarded / relegated or at least involved in some sort of end of season play-offs then I think you have a much better chance of getting people to go to games regularly.


As I said earlier - its really difficult to get a floating supporter to come to so many games.

Also we need to truncate the season. 8 months should be more than enough to run a full league and cup programme. The A league in Australia runs from August to February - and they play 30 league games! Weather is less of an issue there but we don't get enough of a chance to push our product as we are competing with too many other sports. We need to shorten up our season, to give the games more importance, which can push them up the ladder at the sportsdesk.

The changes mooted in OP will only have minimum effects.

All the biggest crowds at Turners Cross for games I ever went to was due to the importance of the game at hand, not the weather, the pitch, the facilities or the time of year. The problem the FAI have is making the league and the games relevant - adjusting the season and the number of teams will change nothing.

[passerrby]

I dont care what they do as long as they dont decide to start the league in say march have a two week break in july and finish in Nov ,now that would be silly.

[Macy]

Buckley Park was a regular for postponed games back in the day. Obviously that particular venue won't be an issue now but it will happen elsewhere.
We weren't without postponements ourselves, but I don't recall it being that much worse than the start or end of the season now.

As I suggested earlier, I don't think it's about justifying the change back anymore, it's about justifying the continuation of the experiment of summer football. It won't be the silver bullet to move back to a winter season, but if it got us back to where we were it would be a start.

Crowds are down, especially during the height of summer when the weather is best.
European progress has been minimal and can be tied to other factors, and there are no tangible benefits for the league anyway.
Has the football really been better, especially since economic realities have kicked in and budgets have gone down?
Is the leagues competition really the UK leagues or is it other leisure/ sporting activities which are more prevalent in the summer? Attendances suggest the latter.

[legendz]

But why would it be too short? Because its the done thing everywhere else?

At the moment we have 18 home league games at the top level, add in Setanta and the domestic cups - its too much - always has been, 13 home games per season would give the clubs a better chance to market the games better and possibly increase season ticket sales. Each game becomes automatically more important and if you can create a competitive division with bottom 4 and top 6 all rewarded / relegated or at least involved in some sort of end of season play-offs then I think you have a much better chance of getting people to go to games regularly.


As I said earlier - its really difficult to get a floating supporter to come to so many games.

Also we need to truncate the season. 8 months should be more than enough to run a full league and cup programme. The A league in Australia runs from August to February - and they play 30 league games! Weather is less of an issue there but we don't get enough of a chance to push our product as we are competing with too many other sports. We need to shorten up our season, to give the games more importance, which can push them up the ladder at the sportsdesk.

The changes mooted in OP will only have minimum effects.

All the biggest crowds at Turners Cross for games I ever went to was due to the importance of the game at hand, not the weather, the pitch, the facilities or the time of year. The problem the FAI have is making the league and the games relevant - adjusting the season and the number of teams will change nothing.

For a league at the highest level, I think 30 games would be about right. Not all sides will be involved in the Setanta Cup and all the other cups for all the rounds of them. Anything less than 30 is more Intermediate/Junior level.

[Real ale Madrid]

For a league at the highest level, I think 30 games would be about right. Not all sides will be involved in the Setanta Cup and all the other cups for all the rounds of them. Anything less than 30 is more Intermediate/Junior level.

WHY ? Still haven't told us why ?

I've never understood why the season is so long.

[passinginterest]

Clubs find it hard to generate any revenue during the off season, the longer the off season the more chance there is for people to take in interest in something else and not bother coming back too. The structure of the league, the length of the season and whether it's Winter or Summer are all miles down on the list of serious issues. If clubs don't sort out facilities and continue to work on becoming community centred then they'll all just struggle on as before regardless.

[Cymro]

If I could add a word on the proposals for the size of the league. This year, you may have heard the Welsh Premier switched to a 12-team format. I've watched a few games in my local area when there's been no clash with Swansea or I have a free night. I've also watched many games from before, when the Welsh Premier had 18 teams. My early opinion of the change is that it's resulted in a much higher standard of football.

I've seen a few games this year, and most of them have been excellent by WPL standards. I've watched games like Neath v TNS and Neath v Bala Town, Port Talbot v Aberystwyth and Llanelli v Neath. The standard has been better because you don't have so many small teams who are realistically not going to qualify for Europe and so take no financial risks and sign lower quality players. This season has been great so far, also crowds at Neath have been much higher than before (upwards of 800 on average) although that isn't repeated across the league and probably has something to do with the fact that lots of SCFC fans have gone down to watch Lee Trundle (who's still absolutely brilliant to watch in a game and is definitely worth the entrance fee of £7).

I remember games in the past when I'd go and watch absolutely dire affairs between Afan Lido and Welshpool Town and wonder what I was doing there when I could have been sitting at home watching Sky Sports or whatever. So far, I've not seen any poor games. If it keeps this up, the switch to a smaller league will definitely have been a good thing for the Welsh Premier.

[Real ale Madrid]

Clubs find it hard to generate any revenue during the off season, the longer the off season the more chance there is for people to take in interest in something else and not bother coming back too.

Clubs shouldn't be able to generate any revenue during the off-season, clubs need to find a way to become sustainable by generating revenues, during the season to sustain them during the off season.

I'm arguing that clubs have a better chance of doing that year on year if the season is shorter. The amount of games we have at the moment is draining interest in the league - not increasing it. If, for example, a club can sell 500 season tickets for a 13 games league season - thats better than 250 season tickets for an 18 /20 games season. Bit of a simple way of looking at it, but the general point still stands. Make the games more important and more people will take an interest.

[Macy]

If I could add a word on the proposals for the size of the league. This year, you may have heard the Welsh Premier switched to a 12-team format. I've watched a few games in my local area when there's been no clash with Swansea or I have a free night. I've also watched many games from before, when the Welsh Premier had 18 teams. My early opinion of the change is that it's resulted in a much higher standard of football.
That was the logic that was used to justify the 10 team league here. Not sure it's followed through to better football. Also, the top of the first would be pretty competitive in the premier imo.

[Lim till i die]

A lot of people mentioning Limerick as part of their sixteen in here ie there's an awful lot of Premier Division fans who haven't been to Jackman Park!! :)

Despite having everything nice and rosy off the pitch, we are in no fit state to be entering an expanded Premier should it happen imo. Personally I'd much rather see us stay down in a rubbish First Division for a year and win that while sorting a ground out, build up a bit of momentum.

Summer football definitely kills us at times, if the weather is fine of a weekend half our fanbase tend to take off to Kilkee. Having said that I remember manys the wonderful traditional winter afternoon watching Tarzan O'Brien or Andy Myler put three or four past us infront of 100 cold souls.

I think Europe and the pitches are red herrings. Most of the "progress" in Europe was achieved by clubs who were spending beyond their means. Shamrock Rovers are duking it out for the Premier Division title playing a brand of football which seems to involve as little contact with the pitch as possible.

Some off the top of my head suggestions to make a 16 team league interesting (feel free to shoot down):

Have your winter break from November to Febuary but have two sets of derby fixtures around Stephens Day and New Years.

Top get champions league, second get Europa, third to sixth playoff to decide second Europa spot.

Bottom get relegated, 12th to 15th playoff to decide who will end up in playoff with second team in First Division.

That should keep most teams with something to play for up to the end.

[Macy]

Bottom get relegated, 12th to 15th playoff to decide who will end up in playoff with second team in First Division.

That should keep most teams with something to play for up to the end.
Wouldn't have disagreed too much up to here - there should be more movement between the leagues. Part of the problem is it's so hard to get out of the first. This leads to clubs spending too much to survive in the premier and spending too much to attempt to get out. Should be at least 3 down from a 16 team premier, imo, to avoid clubs feeling the need to overspend too much. Could still have survival play off's for the final place though to keep the interest.

[Lim till i die]

Even Better.

Bottom two go down, 11th to 14th playoff to decided playoff place!! :)

As a Limerick fan, I HEAR you about the difficulty of getting out of the First, but the only issue here is could you justify two definite and potentially three teams coming up from a (lets be honest pretty p!ss poor) ten team first division, which is what the first division would be for the forseeable if this went ahead*



*Say first year for arguments sake:

Limerick
Longford
Athlone
Wexford
Salthill
Mervue
Tralee Dynamos
Cobh Ramblers
FC Carlow??
Castlebar??

[Dodge]

You left out the demoted Bohs

[Lim till i die]

:)

I genuinely think they'll be alright if its a sixteen (and possibly if its a ten if they win the league.)

Of the six current First Division clubs mentioned there I don't think any of them would be a better bet than even an FC Bohemian of Dublin 2010 Rovers to be honest.

[dfx-]

Buckley Park was a regular for postponed games back in the day. Obviously that particular venue won't be an issue now but it will happen elsewhere.

Any scheduled fixture between November and March was a maybe if you were to play at Ballybofey. Even halfway in Monaghan on teh day, you could never be certain, drizzle could call the game off..

[Macy]

As a Limerick fan, I HEAR you about the difficulty of getting out of the First, but the only issue here is could you justify two definite and potentially three teams coming up from a (lets be honest pretty p!ss poor) ten team first division, which is what the first division would be for the forseeable if this went ahead
Part of what makes it p!ss poor is that most teams could pretty much write off the season before it started as they had no hope of promotion. I know it kind of goes against my theory of not overspending to get out, but clubs can also go the opposite if they don't see a realistic chance at the start of the season. Certainly it contributes to the dismal crowds. 6th probably wouldn't get through the play off's, but it's enough to have that chance to generate interest and generate crowds, which then feeds into the team.

[bennocelt]

Crowds are down, especially during the height of summer when the weather is best.
European progress has been minimal and can be tied to other factors, and there are no tangible benefits for the league anyway.
Has the football really been better, especially since economic realities have kicked in and budgets have gone down?
Is the leagues competition really the UK leagues or is it other leisure/ sporting activities which are more prevalent in the summer? Attendances suggest the latter.

Maybe one reason crowds are down this season are all the games held on a Monday evening, the few on a Tuesday and some even on a Thursday.

In Europe our co effieicents have jumped from the placings of 50's into now the 30's, thats some improvement, and at least LOI teams now get past the first round (longford withstanding)

As for summer activities. Well if you are prepared to give up a LOI game and go and watch rubbish gah or stupid concerts then what the hell do we care. Im sure a cold winters evening would also be a no-no for the same type of person. Excuses excuses excuses, changing to winter football wont see a huge jump in crowds.

I think a 16 team prem is great though

[Schumi]

if you are prepared to give up a LOI game and go and watch rubbish gah or stupid concerts then what the hell do we care.
Seriously? :rolleyes:

[Eminence Grise]

I agree with truncating the duration of the league: 30 league matches at 30 weekends, with a few extra weeks for the FAI cup seems feasible, and allows for a mid-season break. And I would do away with play-offs entirely: final positions should be decided when the league is over, not by play-offs, firstly within and ultimately between divisions, which are more like cup ties tagged on at the end and as like as not to be settled like a cup-tie - by a stroke of bad luck. In a 16 team division, I’d prefer to see two down, two up. I’d suggest three, but until there’s a clearer view of what teams would be in the first division, it might be a step too far for the third-placed team and harm them in the long run.

As to whether I prefer summer or winter soccer, like the seasons I blow hot and cold! Both have their attractions; both have their detractions. But blaming balmy summer nights in Bray, or sleet and snow in Sligo for poor attendances just gives me the impression (again) that some clubs and the league need to stop looking for excuses for their promotional deficiencies, get off their collectives asses and fight for custom. Ten teams, sixteen teams; teams from “the provinces” or only from the Pale; pyramids or ever decreasing circles – it’s all tinkering at the edges if the basic marketing and public relations efforts are missing.

[peadar1987]

A playoff between the Premier and first division makes sense, because those teams haven't already had the chance to prove themselves against each other over a 30+ game season, but I agree that internal playoffs are a bit unfair. Galway have earned the right to finish ahead of Bray over 34 games so far, so it doesn't seem right to decide the entire season on one game at Terryland. That said, if Bray can win that, I'll be a very happy, very drunk boy that evening!

[Sean South]

I’m a old romantic and traditionalist so my heart will always favour winter football it’s what I was brought up on, cold nights, avalanches in the shed when we scored, soup to warm me up as a nipper then cider as a teen, bouncing around, great atmospheres, but when you look back at thing the always seem better. So when I take off my rose tinted glasses I only have to think back to that horrible horrible nightmare back in Tallaght stadium last November, wind and rain coming from all sides we were in the East stand still got soaked.

Honestly I can’t see there been much differences in drop offs in attendances we have now in June/July/August then what will happen on wet miserable nights in winter. Because what will happen is fickle fans will look out the window on a wet night and say “Ah it’s only UCD I’m not going out in that, I’ll stay in and watch X Factor with the bird” So just changing it for the sake of changing it is pointless because there is no magic solution to the problems of the LOI. Every second year something is changed to little effect.

Another thing people argue in favour of summer football is it helps clubs in Europe, personally I don’t think Europe should be but on a pedestal. This dream of European glory is one of the biggest downfalls of our league. Just look at Drogs, Bohs, Shels, Cork, Derry to see the result of chasing this dream, then you had smaller clubs playing catch up and running into problems too. I think building a sustainable future with solid foundations in each clubs local community is the only way forward. If you win in Europe it’s a bonus but should never be the priority.

No matter what new gimmick is tried it won’t change much overall the only thing that can improve the league is clubs getting out into their own communities and attracting more fans through the gates. Money is tight now but improving facilities for supporters is very important to attracting new supporters or making the more fickle fans come back more often.

I am in favour of a 16 team league the buzz of only playing the big clubs at home knowing it’s only guaranteed once in the league will make those nights special, trips to Cork, Derry, Waterford will make it feel more like a league of Ireland then the current Dublin district league. The amount of times we’ve played Pats, Bohs and Shams this year makes it a bit diluted it doesn’t have the same buzz to it.

Edit: Having 16 team league should bring a end to mid week games something I hate with a passion

[Sam_Heggy]

Mid-season breaks are a balls too.

That is all.

[sullanefc]

If the FAI are running the league now, and not the clubs, doesn't that mean that they will have the final say on the structure of the league? It really doesn't matter what votes the clubs take. The FAI will make the decision at the end of the day surely???

[legendz]

I'd imagine the FAI will have the final say but they have to take on board what the clubs want. Their was an ideal view by the Genesis report for example that a 10 team Premier was the way to go but in practice it hasn't been that attractive and a having clubs only meeting twice would appear better. They'll have to be careful though, the league can't always keep chopping and changing.
The first division most likely will be a 10 club division with a 36 game season. With 6 games more than the Premier, the room is there for 6 group games in a league cup. It'd be Premier clubs only at first but in time if the first division expanded to 16, the league cup could expand from 16 to 32 giving first division sides more bigger games as well.

As I mentioned last week, based on current status and 2 or 4 clubs being brought up from the A Championship to join Division One, the league could look like:

Premier Division (16)
Bohemians ... Champions League
Shamrock Rovers .. Europa League play-off
Sligo Rovers .. Europa League play-off
St Patricks Athletic .. Europa League play-off
Sporting Fingal FC .. Europa League play-off
Dundalk
UCD
Galway United
Bray Wanderers
Drogheda United
Derry City
Monaghan United
Waterford United
Shelbourne .. Relegation/Promotion play-off
Limerick 37 FC .. Relegation
Cork City FORAS .. Relegation

Division One (8 or 10)
Wexford Youths .. Promotion
Finn Harps .. Promotion
Longford Town .. Relegation/Promotion play-off
Athlone Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Cobh Ramblers
FC Carlow
Tralee Dynamos
Castlebar Celtic .. Relegation/Promotion play-off

I know it's debatable bringing in EL play-offs and separately giving a European place to the League Cup but I think with a final in the Aviva, it would be a good move and boost the competition. With cup winners most likely to come from the top 5, 6th and 7th would most likely be included in the EL play-offs in the model above.

[John83]

The real question for me is how much the FAI will have to fudge to get 16 clubs Premier licences.

I've always preferred a 16 team Premier, and summer soccer, so I'm divided on the details, but I really detest the semi-annual shake-up.

Bald Student (or Student Mullet, I forget) won Post of the Month years ago with a post along the lines of "The number of teams in the Premier division is changing at the end of the season. That should fix any remaining problems we have."

[micls]

The real question for me is how much the FAI will have to fudge to get 16 clubs Premier licences.


Well this year tehre were 13 clubs with premier licences, 12 premier plus Monaghan. I think Shels had one last year so they should be able to get back to that standard you'd imagine, Derry probably won't have a problem and we're applying for one too so must have some confidence in the ability to get one.

That's 16. Of course there's the possibility some that had them this year won't retain them and they will probably try to get Limerick up to the standard as they're likely to be in the position to go into a 16team.

There could be a slight amount of fudge but I don't think it would be anything that would stop them

[Macy]

As for summer activities. Well if you are prepared to give up a LOI game and go and watch rubbish gah or stupid concerts then what the hell do we care. Im sure a cold winters evening would also be a no-no for the same type of person. Excuses excuses excuses, changing to winter football wont see a huge jump in crowds.
Actually it's the "excuse" of people that would've been semi-regular when it was winter. In my own case, we've far more family activities (not rubbish GAA or stupid concerts :rolleyes: ) over the summer months that make it harder to get to games (admittedly with a 3.5-4 hour round trip), but I'm hardly unique in family taking priority. In a couple of years the kids will be at an age that threads, well threads up until this one it seems, used to be crying out for clubs to get active in attracting.

I doubt winter football will lead to a huge jump in crowds, but if it got us back to where we were before the switch it would be a start.

[Macy]

Well this year tehre were 13 clubs with premier licences, 12 premier plus Monaghan. I think Shels had one last year so they should be able to get back to that standard you'd imagine, Derry probably won't have a problem and we're applying for one too so must have some confidence in the ability to get one.
There's 10 premier teams, so 3 first division clubs have a premier licence (including Longford iirc).