16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[passerrby]

This would technically make sense if we had the same climate as Scotland. But since most of Scotland sees snow at half a sniff of a temperature below 5 celsius this makes a big difference.
Making comparisons to other leagues just makes no sense. Its a completely different fanbase, climate and financial situation amongst other circumstances.
We survived healthily for many many years in a winter season.
Since the inception of the summer season the league has fast gone downhill. European success is complete load of ******** because simply there has been no success. Beating the odd eastern european pub team is no success. Getting hammered by any half decent team (ALA TNS) most definitely is no success.
The closest thing we have seen to success is Shels close run of Deportivo, and that was a good while back now, 2004 if i'm correct?

I'd go back to winter football in a heartbeat.

so because we had no great success in europe we should return to winter football ?
I dont believe or care about the european v summer fooball , I just think summer is better and still have found not one reason for a return.
the only real argument for or against is attendance and im not convinced it impacts greatly either way.

[legendz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/scot_prem/9334707.stm

SPL supporters seem to back a larger league of about 16 or 18, a winter break and play-offs. Be interesting to see if they get listened to. It's a pity LoI supporters were not given a platform to voice their opinions on the direction the league should take.

[Spudulika]

A point frenchman made very clearly is something I've been asking people around the league. What is the definition of a professional? If the definition is a person who is full time training and preparing for games, then it would be more than possible to have 4-5 full time clubs in the league with most clubs (in the Premier at least) have 5-6 full timers. So then it knocks into - what is a living wage? If the gross is 2,500 a month for 12 months, you're looking at an outlay of 30,000euros pa. Kick in bonuses etc and it's a fairly decent wage for players who are genuinely into playing football full time. The crux comes when players are unable to survive on this amount and have to pick up extra work on the side, which damages the whole idea and process of going professional. So how does it work? A club I worked with had players (this was rugby) on part-time contracts but with training and recovery schedules that fitted in with work and also with work that fitted the schedules, not completely, but enough. It was possible to have a core of 4 pros full time, 8 part-time and 18 amateurs, which brought a small club on in leaps and bounds. In football I've seen it done likewise and the whole thing boils down to good management and direction. Recovery is vital in every way. However clubs will begin outbidding each others for players, and as now, will offer money on contract and a wedge under the table (as one prominent club is wont to do). This kills the system and can never be fully regulated, not until a player gets the hump or a major club official hands over the books. Which will be never.

[peadar1987]

A point frenchman made very clearly is something I've been asking people around the league. What is the definition of a professional? If the definition is a person who is full time training and preparing for games, then it would be more than possible to have 4-5 full time clubs in the league with most clubs (in the Premier at least) have 5-6 full timers. So then it knocks into - what is a living wage? If the gross is 2,500 a month for 12 months, you're looking at an outlay of 30,000euros pa. Kick in bonuses etc and it's a fairly decent wage for players who are genuinely into playing football full time. The crux comes when players are unable to survive on this amount and have to pick up extra work on the side, which damages the whole idea and process of going professional. So how does it work? A club I worked with had players (this was rugby) on part-time contracts but with training and recovery schedules that fitted in with work and also with work that fitted the schedules, not completely, but enough. It was possible to have a core of 4 pros full time, 8 part-time and 18 amateurs, which brought a small club on in leaps and bounds. In football I've seen it done likewise and the whole thing boils down to good management and direction. Recovery is vital in every way. However clubs will begin outbidding each others for players, and as now, will offer money on contract and a wedge under the table (as one prominent club is wont to do). This kills the system and can never be fully regulated, not until a player gets the hump or a major club official hands over the books. Which will be never.


So much sense in just one post!

And so much could be achieved if the FAI had the balls to bring in a proper, rigid system and enforce it properly.

[legendz]

so because we had no great success in europe we should return to winter football ?
I dont believe or care about the european v summer fooball , I just think summer is better and still have found not one reason for a return.
the only real argument for or against is attendance and im not convinced it impacts greatly either way.

I'd have to agree. Changing the season from summer to winter doesn't look like have much difference either way in terms of attendances. Moving to a larger Premier would've been a bit more of a radical step.

[Dodge]

I'd have to agree. Changing the season from summer to winter doesn't look like have much difference either way in terms of attendances. Moving to a larger Premier would've been a bit more of a radical step.

And wouldn't affect crowds either. For all the bleating that some fans do about playing Rovers/Bohs etc all the time they still get better crowds to thosse games than they do to Bray/UCD etc.

This goes rounds in circles. Plenty of arguuments for both sides but it boils down to some prefering to watch football in summer (like passerby above) and some who prefer watching it in winter (I'd count myself among these).

The season, and make up of the league, doesn't really matter to most.

[legendz]

And wouldn't affect crowds either. For all the bleating that some fans do about playing Rovers/Bohs etc all the time they still get better crowds to thosse games than they do to Bray/UCD etc.

This goes rounds in circles. Plenty of arguuments for both sides but it boils down to some prefering to watch football in summer (like passerby above) and some who prefer watching it in winter (I'd count myself among these).

The season, and make up of the league, doesn't really matter to most.

You might have a point in terms of attendance but what about the promotion of the league? The league itself has a low enough profile at the moment. Having the Premier in more areas of the country will be a help. Expanding the league to at least 16 will help with this. It's hard to gauge but when word got out on radio and in the papers of a possible expansion of 16, it seemed to have been well received. This was before the FAI released their statement that no decision had been made and stakeholders had to be spoken to etc.

[legendz]

It seems the SPL will be going the opposite direction of the LoI. They'll be going from the 12 team Premier with a split to a 10 team Premier. The main reason is money. 90% of their fans don't want it. At least they seemed to have more of a public debate and clubs voiced their opinions. I haven't heard any manager or chairman in the LoI come out in public about the direction they will like the league to take.

[Dodge]

You might have a point in terms of attendance but what about the promotion of the league?

Whats the point in promoting it if it isn't to get peopel to attend the games?

[Spudulika]

It seems the SPL will be going the opposite direction of the LoI. They'll be going from the 12 team Premier with a split to a 10 team Premier. The main reason is money. 90% of their fans don't want it. At least they seemed to have more of a public debate and clubs voiced their opinions. I haven't heard any manager or chairman in the LoI come out in public about the direction they will like the league to take.

Mainly because they will go in whatever direction they're told. When the former CEO of Pats is held up as the sensible voice of progress, begin to be afraid, be very afraid.

Time of year doesn't make a major difference, the professionality and attitude of the clubs and the overseers of the game does. Clubs will sheepishly continue on regardless as they're unable to form a concensus for change, or progress.

[legendz]

Whats the point in promoting it if it isn't to get peopel to attend the games?

Both should go together really. If the league was expanded to 16, it should happen with a big promotion drive for the league. You have a good point regards Rovers/Boh's getting bigger crowds for those games than Bray/UCD. If Rover's/Boh's weren't playing so often in a year though, the one-off trips each season to their respective grounds could attract more support. An expanded Premier covers more regions of the country and raises the profile of the league nationally. Expanding the league isn't enough though. It'd have to come with a big promotion drive for the league. The proposed expansion to 12 isn't much of a revamp.

[legendz]

The Scot's are switching from a 12 team Premier and 10 in the next tier to a top tier of 10 with 12 in the tier below. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

[John83]

The Scot's are switching from a 12 team Premier and 10 in the next tier to a top tier of 10 with 12 in the tier below. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Yes. Latvia made a similar change after the 1992 season, and again after the 1994 season.

[Ezeikial]

Any update on when clarification on promotion / relegation is expected from the FAI?

[Dodge]

They're waiting to see if Bohs get a license. Then they'll act accordingly to gbet them back in prem asap

[legendz]

If stories are true that the LoI is to return to being a closed league, what structure is going to be in place from next season onwards?

[legendz]

I've been away on a bit of business in the south-east. I was hearing word on Waterford radio that next year's Premier could be expanded to 16. I thought it was a dead cert it was going to be 12? The talk on the radio was that the Longford game has importance so that they'll secure 5th but also a place in the top 6 in case of the impending changes.

[Lim till i die]

Longford, Waterford, Athlone, Monaghan, Shels and Cork to go up if this happens??

Can't see it myself, where are they going to find sixteen teams?? Bohs are doomed, Bray and Dundalk possibly doomed, Galway a hilarious mess etc etc.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's ridiculous they haven't confirmed their intentions by now.

[culloty82]

Also you're left with a maximum of nine teams in the First - just about doable, but every team would have to play each other four times.

[BonnieShels]

Not if the first is regionalised and other teams are invited to join.

[sheao]

I can see why they would make such a move, but it is madness that the league have'nt made such intentions known

[sadloserkid]

Who would they invite though? We can't even keep the clubs we have, strong and persistant rumblings that Salthill are going to drop out at the end of this season as is.

As said by many above though, complete farce that they haven't this organised and set in stone for at least nine months now.

[legendz]

I was surprised to hear it. Thought a 12 team premier was more or less agreed. The word from Kerry is that Tralee Dynamos have a November 30th deadline to have everything ironed out regards requirements to get a licence. With only 4 A Championship clubs actively seeking a LoI licence and no word on any other club, it's hard to imagine there'll be more than 9 in the first if the premier was expanded to 9.

[BonnieShels]

With such a small senior football situation why are we so concerned with having a division below the premier. Having a relevant premier division should be first and foremost in the FAI's mind after that the FD should then figure. A 16 team PD is the only realistic destination we have.

[Acornvilla]

Default! the greatest word in the English language.

[BonnieShels]

The greatest two words in the English language!

[legendz]

With such a small senior football situation why are we so concerned with having a division below the premier. Having a relevant premier division should be first and foremost in the FAI's mind after that the FD should then figure. A 16 team PD is the only realistic destination we have.

It's a fair point. A few on here before have made a point that there are too many games on Monday nights. A 16 team premier should see nearly all games played at weekends. If the FD is only 8 or 9 clubs, lee-way will be there for new clubs to apply.

[gufct]

heard this about a month ago and strangely it was a waterford source as well. I wonder why the people in Waterford are so well informed:rolleyes:!!

[Spudulika]

There are merits to having a 16 team top flight with 2 groups of 8 below it, however a PD of 16 would shatter if it was run as the league has been the last few years. It will need the FAI to get heavy sponsorship to spread around, an extra tv deal and complete compliance by all clubs. So in short, can't see it happening, but would love it to.

[El-Pietro]

i heard this a few weeks ago after our game in Waterford alright, it unbelievable that they would tell teams one thing and then at the last minute change their mind, especially as teams in the middle of the pack in the first division would likely have approached games in a different manner if they knew finishing fourth or fifth would take them up.

and teams higher up may have taken a different approach to Cup matches if they knew they were guaranteed promotion.

of course, its so bizarre that its bound to happen

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't see how the clubs could make up the shortfall of losing 1/6 of their gates. It could only happen if the FAI had a buffer fund to help them out but that's never going to happen.

[Lim till i die]

So a 16 team Premier with two groups of 8 below it??

As things stand would probably look something like:

Shamrock
Sligo
Derry
Pats
Cork
Limerick
Shels

Dundalk
Drogheda
Monaghan
Bray
UCD

Bohs
Galway
Waterford
Longford


The teams in that middle group will have absolutely nothing to play for, too good to go down, not good enough to challenge for Europe, their crowds, such as they are, will die.

The teams I've highlighted in bold. Will almost certainly go bust.

As an idea it's a severly broken one.

This gives it a 78.63% chance of happening.

Irish Football. :bulgy:

[DUFC4life]

Wrong louth club in bold there.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Wrong louth club in bold there.

your havin a laugh. We've been through tougher times, we'll still emerge from it in a better state that you's

[oriel]

If this take over is sorted over the coming months we'll actually be very well place financially. This season we'll lose a small amt, maybe 20/30k, overall debt is 180k and that was offered to be cleared by one of the take over bids.

[CrowdedHouse]

So a 16 team Premier with two groups of 8 below it??


The teams I've highlighted in bold. Will almost certainly go bust.


Irish Football. :bulgy:


That's the only way Limerick are going to get in the Premier next season anyway

[bluewhitearmy]

That's the only way Limerick are going to get in the Premier next season anyway

Ya i really wish we were in your situation instead...

Shouldnt you be worrying about even having a club next year.

[gufc2000]

So a 16 team Premier with two groups of 8 below it??

As things stand would probably look something like:

Shamrock
Sligo
Derry
Pats
Cork
Limerick
Shels

Dundalk
Drogheda
Monaghan
Bray
UCD

Bohs
Galway
Waterford
Longford


The teams in that middle group will have absolutely nothing to play for, too good to go down, not good enough to challenge for Europe, their crowds, such as they are, will die.

The teams I've highlighted in bold. Will almost certainly go bust.

As an idea it's a severly broken one.

This gives it a 78.63% chance of happening.

Irish Football. :bulgy:
And your basing your assumptions on? Maybe the best way to get out of our situation would be to keep on changing our name, I'm sure you can give us some tips?

[Charlie Darwin]

Meow.

[bluewhitearmy]

And your basing your assumptions on? Maybe the best way to get out of our situation would be to keep on changing our name, I'm sure you can give us some tips?

Get your players to stock up on pasta when they actually get paid.

And dont send players to doctors with begging letters when they need treatment.

[geezer]

get the dressing room toilets at hogan park sorted for u19 visitors, I honestly can say you wouldnt see the likes in afghanistan. So LFC is going in the right direction with some great people but its not perfect either. One of our parents cars was cracked open with a crowbar at noon and the pizza delivery man from dooradoyle said " ah we dont normally deliver in that area"

we all have issues but leave out any story you hear from committee members of the ultra pfai nuts

[bluewhitearmy]

get the dressing room toilets at hogan park sorted, I honestly can say you wouldnt see the likes in afghanistan. So LFC is going in the right direction but its not perfect either

We don't own it so thats probably impossible and if ya haven't heard we have the Markets Field to take care of.

[geezer]

your u19s are playing down at hogan park representing LFC in this season u19 league. I suggest you take a look at the next home game and tell me your proud of bringing visitors in there.

[bluewhitearmy]

your u19s are playing down at hogan park representing LFC in this season u19 league. I suggest you take a look at the next home game and tell me your proud of bringing visitors in there.

Just like your under 19s that turned up late for the game in cars.

[geezer]

well you try find a place that is not signposted even at the top of the housing estate it sits at the back of and also no one in limerick that people asked recognised the name "hogan park" even people in that estate didnt know it as hogan park.

[Lim till i die]

That's the only way Limerick are going to get in the Premier next season anyway

From a Galway United fan. :D


get the dressing room toilets at hogan park sorted for u19 visitors, I honestly can say you wouldnt see the likes in afghanistan. So LFC is going in the right direction with some great people but its not perfect either.


Nobody here has claimed Limerick are perfect, obviously a club in our circumstance couldn't hope to be so not sure where your mad rant is coming from


One of our parents cars was cracked open with a crowbar at noon

He parked outside Hogan Park.

Seriously like. :bulgy:

Apparently he was a really decent sort though, didn't make a big fuss about it, realised these things happen and there's nothing that Limerick FC as such could have done about it or indeed could be expected to do about it.

I'm certain he wouldn't have expected anyone to use the incident for point scoring on the internet.


and the pizza delivery man from dooradoyle said " ah we dont normally deliver in that area"

Maybe we should get the players to deliver the pizzas.


we all have issues but leave out any story you hear from committee members of the ultra pfai nuts

Those evil players demanding money owed to them. SHAME I say.


your u19s are playing down at hogan park representing LFC in this season u19 league. I suggest you take a look at the next home game and tell me your proud of bringing visitors in there.

Gone out to Ashling as of our next game.

I'm aware of the condition of Hogan Park though thanks.

Are you proud of your team travelling in cars and having to kick off with less than eleven players?


well you try find a place that is not signposted even at the top of the housing estate it sits at the back of and also no one in limerick that people asked recognised the name "hogan park" even people in that estate didnt know it as hogan park.

Did the Galway trust or whatever is running (lol) the club at the moment think ahead and get directions to the ground before you came down??

Also if you were in the estate you should have been able to see the floodlights, there's a hint for you there.

Also, that setup your own 19s were using last year was a dump aswell.

Limerick FC and Pat O'Sullivan have been very good to Galway United throughout your current difficulties yet here are committee members, sneering at Pat and the club in various threads, for the purpose of trying to win internet arguments. :bulgy:

If this is the calibre of petty individual involved in the rescue of your club I really do worry for your future.

Or I would worry. If it was any of my business. But it's not. So I don't care.

So how about you worry about Galway and I'll worry about Limerick?? x x

[Acornvilla]

If it helps Galway people in future, when I wanted to find the place I used google earth.

[gael353]

your u19s are playing down at hogan park representing LFC in this season u19 league. I suggest you take a look at the next home game and tell me your proud of bringing visitors in there.

was it seven or nine players ye started this delayed game with? as for last years place that yee were using :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

So another discussion on the league structure descends into 'my team isn't quite as **** as yours, yet'

its enough to make baby pyramid structures cry