16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[cornflakes]

It would give 1 home and 1 away game against the teams in the opposite half
2 home/1 away games against three teams in your half and 2 away/ 1 home games against the other three.

I agree no way is perfect with 14 teams, I just think less games after a split will give a better chance of keeping it interesting for most teams and fans

[osarusan]

All three are horrible prospects
Nightmarish stuff.

That 'split' is probably the worst idea to ever happen in Irish football.

[KevB76]

Today's Kerryman reports that five clubs are applying for the new First Division licences - presumably Tralee, Carlow, Cobh and Fanad are four of the five, not sure what club would be strong enough to be the fifth. Also, an FAI convention will be held in early December to decide on the League format and clubs involved - does that mean an election based on the FAI's recommendations?

I heard (from reliable source) that Fanad have withdrawn their application.

[Dodge]

Nightmarish stuff.

That 'split' is probably the worst idea to ever happen in Irish football.
Just like it was in the early 90s. Stooopid LImerick and stoopid waterlogged pitches

[culloty82]

Was in westport at the weekend and they were talking about the first division licences also?

Maybe, but the only reason Castlebar withdrew was because of the uncertainty over the A Championship, so maybe they want back in now that the divisions will be more certain. As legendz says, it's hard to see past Cobh for the first place when they came so close in February.

[legendz]

14 would be one of the worst outcomes. As things stand at the moment it'll be 12 after the Mons play-off win. The only expansion worth considering after that is to 16. I'd like to see the FAI press ahead with 12 for the Premier Division as it stands. If there's an expansion to 16 in the pipeline, let all first division clubs battle for that next season.

[Macy]

14 would be one of the worst outcomes. As things stand at the moment it'll be 12 after the Mons play-off win. The only expansion worth considering after that is to 16. I'd like to see the FAI press ahead with 12 for the Premier Division as it stands. If there's an expansion to 16 in the pipeline, let all first division clubs battle for that next season.
Agree the only expansion that makes sense is 16. However, not as convinced by the need for the opportunity for a lot of first division teams to overspend. An unexpected change is nearly better in that regard.

[Dodge]

FAI have just confired it'll be 12 team premier. No split. Teams play each other three times for a 33 game seaosn

League starts March 2nd

[sligoman]

Mid season break coincides with Euro2012, which was expected.

[Dewie101]

from twitter....
McDonnellDan (https://twitter.com/#%21/McDonnellDan) Daniel McDonnell



Tomorrow: LOI format for 2012 agreed but only after clubs reject original plan.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

No mention of how many teams are in Division 1

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7103/2012-league-structure-confirmed/

[Dillonman]

http://blackandwhitetown.tumblr.com/post/13271895594/structure-agreed-for-2012-loi-season


Following tonight’s Annual Clubs’ Convention, the NLEC has agreed the following structure for the 2012 Airtricity League Season:
The season will commence on Friday March 2 2012.
Premier Division
12 Clubs x 3 Rounds (33 fixtures).
12th placed Club automatically relegated.
11th placed Club takes part in two-leg Promotion/Relegation Play-off.
First Division
The winners of the First Division will be automatically promoted to the Premier Division.
The second placed Club plays the third placed Club in a Play-off.
The winners of this play-off will play the 11th placed Premier Division Club in a two-leg Promotion/Relegation Play-off for a place in the 2013 Premier Division.
Mid-Season Break
This will coincide generally with the Republic of Ireland’s Euro 2012 campaign. Exact dates will be finalised after the Euro 2012 draw.
End of Season date
Weekend ending Sunday October 28 2012.

[Longfordian]

Wonder what the original plan was? The approved structure seems logical enough.

[MagicMon]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting this to get confirmed so early in pre-season! Any idea of the relegation/promotion structure or is that too much to hope for?

[Guinney]

About time they decided, clubs can finally get their houses in order (well try their best) for next season.

[legendz]

No mention of how many teams are in Division 1

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7103/2012-league-structure-confirmed/

Clubs which have been applying to join the First Division have a deadline of November 30th.

http://www.kerryman.ie/sport/tralee-in-airtricity-bid-2890820.html

Tralee in Airtricity bid

Wednesday September 28 2011
THE Tralee Dynamos senior side are hoping their application to play in Division 1 of the League of Ireland will be given the green light. With the 'A' championship now terminated they have no other choice, but to try and enter the league, however, it is up to the League of Irleand to give them the stamp of approval.
There is a set criteria to get into the league and Dynamos will have to meet all the requirements to get a licence to play. The club are presently studying the manual sent out to them by the FAI and they will have to have everything ironed out by the deadline of November 30.
Noel White says the club will be doing everything in their power to meet the requirements to obtain the licence. " We have a meeting with the FAI at Abbotstown this Wednesday afternoon to discuss issues associated with obtaining our licence.
" We found the 'A' Championship to be a great experience and all the players are now setting their sights in playing in the League of Ireland First Division.
" We know we have a lot to do to make it a viable proposition, but the will is there within the club to achieve it."




I'm happy with the outcome. Not sure regards comments about a proposal being rejected but I think they've come up with a good structure. The Premier will consist of 12 which is what clubs played for last year, most notably Cork, Shels and the play-off winners the mighty Mons.
I've never liked the relegation play-off between two premier clubs. I never thought it worked for relegation but it does for promotion i.e. the play-off between 2nd and 3rd. The team winning the first division will be rewarded with automatic promotion. 2nd and 3rd will give a few clubs something to challenge for. I imagine like the old system, the team finishing 2nd will have the home tie for the play-off.

There's nothing startling about tonight's announcement and nor should there be either. Looking forward now to hearing how next years First Division will take shape. If Tralee are to be involved, as I hope, it'll have to be at least 12.

[Dillonman]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting this to get confirmed so early in pre-season! Any idea of the relegation/promotion structure or is that too much to hope for?

See above, 12th goes down, 1st goes up, 2nd v 3rd in first divison playoff, winner plays 11th in the Premier.

[A N Mouse]

I see there won't be a split. But at this stage the only innovation would, in terms of adding games - and doing away with the third game - would be introducing regionalisation.

Play everyone twice home and away. Play your local section an extra home and away. And introduce a proper playoff - regional winners guaranteed european football, but have to decide overall winners and next x teams play for last euro spot..

[legendz]

Wonder what the original plan was? The approved structure seems logical enough.

I'd like to know as well. They have come up with a very logical structure. The main change really is we're back to 12 teams over 33 games and the relegation play-off of recent years, except for this year, is back except third last in the premier is kept out of the play-off, most were asking for that anyways so that's a good move and a correction that had to be made.

[legendz]

I see there won't be a split. But at this stage the only innovation would, in terms of adding games - and doing away with the third game - would be introducing regionalisation.

Play everyone twice home and away. Play your local section an extra home and away. And introduce a proper playoff - regional winners guaranteed european football, but have to decide overall winners and next x teams play for last euro spot..

No split is good. Was it a suggestion rejected tonight? If so, hat's off to the wise heads who vetoed it.


The usual way with the third series is that it's reversed the following season with minor change due to promotion/relegation.
A clear way to earn the extra home game on the field of play would be giving the top 6 teams from the year before the extra game. Towards the end of season in mid-table, it'd be an incentive to finish higher in the table. It's an option.

[Charlie Darwin]

If this is what they agreed to I'd hate to see what they rejected.

[BonnieShels]

A clear way to earn the extra home game on the field of play would be giving the top 6 teams from the year before the extra game. Towards the end of season in mid-table, it'd be an incentive to finish higher in the table. It's an option.

Interesting. Isn't that what they do in the Danish League?

[legendz]

Interesting. Isn't that what they do in the Danish League?

Ha ha, that's right!

The Danish League. The Danish League. The Danish League. :)

[culloty82]

Baffling that they couldn't decide the number of First Division clubs, at least then teams would have some indication whether they were in or out.

[legendz]

Baffling that they couldn't decide the number of First Division clubs, at least then teams would have some indication whether they were in or out.

November 30th is the deadline for clubs applying. I see it as a good move. It hints they could be open to more than 1 club. If it was 1 club, I'd say Cobh will get the nod. If it's 3, Tralee and the other 3 have a good chance for the extra 2 places.
Is the final decision with the FAI or the league's 21 clubs?

[Sam_Heggy]

If this is what they agreed to I'd hate to see what they rejected.

I think the one that was rejected was a regional 1st div of North and South.

[Dillonman]

I think the one that was rejected was a regional 1st div of North and South.

The Indo says the clubs rejected a league split after so many games.

[Dodge]

Less than 12 months after agreeing to it. This league is nothing if not consistent in its fiddling about

[citybone]

I see there won't be a split. But at this stage the only innovation would, in terms of adding games - and doing away with the third game - would be introducing regionalisation.

Play everyone twice home and away. Play your local section an extra home and away. And introduce a proper playoff - regional winners guaranteed european football, but have to decide overall winners and next x teams play for last euro spot..
Regionalised is ok for the 1st division but not the prem in my view but i think its a better option than the 33 games system.
Some teams will have more away games than home games and some clubs might have to play Shamrocks twice away and only once at home, a financial nightmare and competitive disadvantage.
I would have preferred a split

[Dodge]

Some teams will have more away games than home games and some clubs might have to play Shamrocks twice away and only once at home, a financial nightmare and competitive disadvantage.
I would have preferred a split
Huh? if you're in the bottom six, you're not getting any of the bigger clubs so how will that not create a 'financial nightmare' for some clubs

Anyone who followed the LOI in the early 90s can tell you what a disaster the top 6/bottom 6 split was

[citybone]

I remember the 33 system a few years ago and that was a balls, forget about financial side, it give a unfair advantage to some clubs having more away games and possibly facing all the difficult teams away twice.

[Dodge]

I remember the 33 system a few years ago and that was a balls, forget about financial side, it give a unfair advantage to some clubs having more away games and possibly facing all the difficult teams away twice.
I'm not arguing that. I'm saying the split is worse. WAY WAY worse.

They used to have the league reverse the fixtures the following seaosn. So if in 2012 you played Rovers, Sligo, Derry, Pats and Bohs away twice, in 2013 you'd have all of them at home twice. Promoted clubs replace relegated clubs in that schedule obviously

[Macy]

The usual way with the third series is that it's reversed the following season with minor change due to promotion/relegation.
A clear way to earn the extra home game on the field of play would be giving the top 6 teams from the year before the extra game. Towards the end of season in mid-table, it'd be an incentive to finish higher in the table. It's an option.
You're just making it even more unfair. One less home game might be the difference between top 6 or not, and for that you'd give the same advantage the following year? The only way to do it is as it was previously done as Dodge has outlined. The split was, and would be, crap. Ultimately, the only way to level the playing field is to get it up to 16 teams and straight home and away.

I'm not hugely in favour of regionalisation (unless part of a totally different approach of a totally regionalised league and a play off for the championship). If they want to reduce costs in the first, they should make fixtures Saturday or Sunday only unless agreed by the away team. Covering lost wages/ holidays is as much of an issue as travel costs, I would've thought.

Finally, I don't see the issue with deciding the numbers in the first later.

[citybone]

You're just making it even more unfair. One less home game might be the difference between top 6 or not, and for that you'd give the same advantage the following year? The only way to do it is as it was previously done as Dodge has outlined. The split was, and would be, crap. Ultimately, the only way to level the playing field is to get it up to 16 teams and straight home and away.

I'm not hugely in favour of regionalisation (unless part of a totally different approach of a totally regionalised league and a play off for the championship). If they want to reduce costs in the first, they should make fixtures Saturday or Sunday only unless agreed by the away team. Covering lost wages/ holidays is as much of an issue as travel costs, I would've thought.

Finally, I don't see the issue with deciding the numbers in the first later.
I would rather a 12 team 33 game league than a 16 team league. We don't have enough players to make 16 competitive teams, it would just increase the amount of hammerings every year and make the 1st division unviable. I am totally against 16 team league

[legendz]

I remember the 33 system a few years ago and that was a balls, forget about financial side, it give a unfair advantage to some clubs having more away games and possibly facing all the difficult teams away twice.

Cork have experience of the 33 system from the First Division '10. :)

[Macy]

I would rather a 12 team 33 game league than a 16 team league. We don't have enough players to make 16 competitive teams, it would just increase the amount of hammerings every year and make the 1st division unviable. I am totally against 16 team league
I must have imagined the PFAI giving out about the numbers of players without clubs... That not enough players bs was what was used to justify a 10 team league, but sure why not make it 6 teams and condense the players even more?

Viability of the first would depend on the numbers in it. If all applicants get in, then 16 team and a viable first is possible.

[harpin]

Finally, I don't see the issue with deciding the numbers in the first later.

I do I know I can afford my season ticket at Christmas

[sligoman]

Hope the fixtures for next season come out as early as they did last year (Dec 23rd)

[BonnieShels]

Hope the fixtures for next season come out as early as they did last year (Dec 23rd)

And I hope that that's the only set of fixtures this year.

[legendz]

You're just making it even more unfair. One less home game might be the difference between top 6 or not, and for that you'd give the same advantage the following year? The only way to do it is as it was previously done as Dodge has outlined. The split was, and would be, crap. Ultimately, the only way to level the playing field is to get it up to 16 teams and straight home and away.

It's a matter of opinion I suppose. I'd see it as fair reward for finishing in the top half but if that's not the view of many fair enough. It's the right decision not to announce first division numbers yet when the deadline for clubs applications is still a few days away. What's the plan going forward, will there be a meeting of the 21 clubs regards the applications of the 5 clubs?

[redobit]

The saying in football 'well its the same for both teams' is thrown out the window with this system imo. Playing a team home or away twice is a massive advantage or disadvantage. It means that a title is being infleunced by factors off the pitch, which is bull.

[legendz]

The saying in football 'well its the same for both teams' is thrown out the window with this system imo. Playing a team home or away twice is a massive advantage or disadvantage. It means that a title is being infleunced by factors off the pitch, which is bull.

The clubs have agreed to it though! We can discuss it forever but it seems to be what the clubs want.

[Lim till i die]

Finally, I don't see the issue with deciding the numbers in the first later.

Clubs are expected to have budgets submitted in December.

Budgets based on their levels of income and expenditure over the next twelve months.

Levels which they will be forced in some cases to take a wild guess at.

[redobit]

The clubs have agreed to it though! We can discuss it forever but it seems to be what the clubs want.

Id say it was more the case that the clubs wanted change, a change from the 4 league games against a team in one season. Its hard not agree to it when it's the only option being put forward - clubs didnt have to vote on it anyway (that I know of) so its hard to know exactly who wanted.

[mypost]

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying the split is worse. WAY WAY worse.

They used to have the league reverse the fixtures the following seaosn. So if in 2012 you played Rovers, Sligo, Derry, Pats and Bohs away twice, in 2013 you'd have all of them at home twice. Promoted clubs replace relegated clubs in that schedule obviously

In our case, 1999 was the last year we had the same team on the last day of the season, as the year before.


The saying in football 'well its the same for both teams' is thrown out the window with this system imo. Playing a team home or away twice is a massive advantage or disadvantage. It means that a title is being infleunced by factors off the pitch, which is bull.

Didn't affect Cork too much this year, or in 2005.

Everyone plays the same team 3 times and starts on 0 points. If you win enough games, you get what you want at the end of the year. If you don't, you won't. Nobody complains if they get drawn away in a cup 3 times and their opponents get drawn at home 3 times, it still has to be won and lost on the pitch.

My concern is that again the season is crammed into 8 months, harming our and/or someone else's European campaign, should progress be made.

[legendz]

My concern is that again the season is crammed into 8 months, harming our and/or someone else's European campaign, should progress be made.

I'd agree with that. I'd like to see the season extend by about a month, by starting about 2 weeks earlier and finishing 2 weeks later. The clubs probably have issues with that though to do with the contracts they offer. Surely if a good number of clubs wanted it, they could lobby the FAI? If it's harming clubs progress in Europe if progress is being made, there'll have to be call for change?

[gufc2000]

With the June break, it would appear we are looking at more midweek games then seen as the season is still ending on the same weekend as this year

[1st time post]

With the June break, it would appear we are looking at more midweek games then seen as the season is still ending on the same weekend as this year

3 less games though??

[seand]

I don't see why extending the season should cost clubs more. You've got the same budget for the season, you just split it over nine months instead of eight. Everyone's in the same boat. A player who might have earned 450 a week over eight months will now be offered 400 a week over nine months. Spreading it out means less of the horrendous Monday night games with attendances chopped in half.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well it matters to the players. They still need to be bringing in a certain amount of money a week. If they're going to be collecting social welfare while they're unemployed, it's in their interests that the season is as short as possible so they can get their full three months dole, otherwise they'll be asking the clubs for more money (that they don't have). Given that wages are the major expenditure for all clubs, it's in the clubs' interests too to have the season as short as is manageable.