16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[legendz]

Depends on the size of the extended Premier. Ye finished 18th of the 22 LoI clubs this season so unless ye improve next season, in any re-structuring to a 16 team Premier, ye'll be at the top of the pack chasing promotion to the expanded Premier.

[frenchman]

it's difficult to talk about this without mentioning a possible merger with the ifa. at the moment the first division clubs are having a hard time moneywise but they are scaping by. if you create a 16 team permier and look for 16 teams in a new first. slighty off point but here goes
16 permier (only be accepted if the NI teams have 8 teams and the south 8 also to start. if we are convinced we are better then time and games will tell) - top 3 into europe and 4th a play off spot with winner of league cup.
bottom 2 go down and 3 adn4 from bottom play off (like present) to meet the winner 3rd 4th play off in the first.)
16 first division (again 8 north and 8 south) winners and runners-up go up and playoff 3rd and 4th meet 13th and 14th looser match. bottom 4 would go down to be replaced by the four group winners of the A chamionship made up of permier (reserve +u20) teams plus others who dream of bigger days. these four groups would have 10 to 12 teams each and would be roughly based on the four provinces. a short season would allow for adapting from winter to summer football and also lower costs. the four bottom teams go down into their respective provinial senior league and be replaced by the champion of the said division.this would in turn be all be filtered into lower divisions ulster senior league division 2 (west) for example until you cover all village teams.if the split were to happen today here goes..........
premier with : rovers bohs sligo fingal pats dundalk ucd galway + linfield, glens , crusaders disterllery cliftonville ballymena glenavon and colraine
first with : bray /drogheda /derry /waterford /monaghan /shels /limerick /cork + dungannon /newry /portadown /donegal celtic /carrick loughgall/ limavady /bangor
a championship four regional groups of 10 to 12 each to be made up of premier A plus:- harps/longford/athlone/mervue/salthill/tullamore/castlebar/cobh/carlow/tralee/HW welders /dergview/ards/institute/ballyclare com/ballinamallard/larne/banbridge/glebe /ballymoney
by far the biggest losers would be harps, athlone and longford but the almost guarantee to winning the division (prizemoney) would soften the blow. again the goegraphical grouping would give a very strong northen division with NI clubs but they may also have better crowds so more money and then better prepared for life after promotion.
feel free to place thsi on another thread...............

[Mr A]

it's difficult to talk about this without mentioning a possible merger with the ifa.

It really isn't.

[BonnieShels]

it's difficult to talk about this without mentioning a possible merger with the ifa. at the moment the first division clubs are having a hard time moneywise but they are scaping by. if you create a 16 team permier and look for 16 teams in a new first. slighty off point but here goes
16 permier (only be accepted if the NI teams have 8 teams and the south 8 also to start. if we are convinced we are better then time and games will tell) - top 3 into europe and 4th a play off spot with winner of league cup.
bottom 2 go down and 3 adn4 from bottom play off (like present) to meet the winner 3rd 4th play off in the first.)
16 first division (again 8 north and 8 south) winners and runners-up go up and playoff 3rd and 4th meet 13th and 14th looser match. bottom 4 would go down to be replaced by the four group winners of the A chamionship made up of permier (reserve +u20) teams plus others who dream of bigger days. these four groups would have 10 to 12 teams each and would be roughly based on the four provinces. a short season would allow for adapting from winter to summer football and also lower costs. the four bottom teams go down into their respective provinial senior league and be replaced by the champion of the said division.this would in turn be all be filtered into lower divisions ulster senior league division 2 (west) for example until you cover all village teams.if the split were to happen today here goes..........
premier with : rovers bohs sligo fingal pats dundalk ucd galway + linfield, glens , crusaders disterllery cliftonville ballymena glenavon and colraine
first with : bray /drogheda /derry /waterford /monaghan /shels /limerick /cork + dungannon /newry /portadown /donegal celtic /carrick loughgall/ limavady /bangor
a championship four regional groups of 10 to 12 each to be made up of premier A plus:- harps/longford/athlone/mervue/salthill/tullamore/castlebar/cobh/carlow/tralee/HW welders /dergview/ards/institute/ballyclare com/ballinamallard/larne/banbridge/glebe /ballymoney
by far the biggest losers would be harps, athlone and longford but the almost guarantee to winning the division (prizemoney) would soften the blow. again the goegraphical grouping would give a very strong northen division with NI clubs but they may also have better crowds so more money and then better prepared for life after promotion.
feel free to place thsi on another thread...............

My plan had this in consideration. however there was not an Irish League team near it as that is the last thing that we should be considering. If we get our house in order and if the IFA want a merger then we should consider it on it's merits. Until then talking about a merger is nonsense.

[Finlay Harp]

The thoughts of Harps playing the Welders makes me cringe!

[frenchman]

my dad was a harps fan and I know it sounds terrible but there would be some big losers with a system like this. the other reason i went dirrectly into this was that the only other way is to have a 16 team premier and then 4 regional divisions north, south, east and west. each of 10 to 12 teams with the 4 winners going up and the four last places going down into the A- championship. problem with this that we would need a minimum 56 teams in the ROI!!!!!! WHAT IS THE DIGGEST PROBLEM FOR 1ST DIVISION CLUBS PLAYERS WAGES TRAVEL DISTANCES OR GENERAL RUNNING COSTS?

[BonnieShels]

That plan is completely insane. We can only work with what we have. Requiring more senior teams is not a goer.

[frenchman]

so how many senior teams (or semi senior teams) do we have? 22 plus 5 A championship= 27? surely we could scrape up another 5 or so...........

[culloty82]

The problem is that for the second year in a row, no new teams have shown any interest in joining the A Championship, too many clubs are in an intermediate/junior football comfort zone to take the senior plunge even in an expansion.

[holidaysong]

LMFM reported on their lunch time news that clubs are voting on whether or not to accept the 16 team division tonight along with how to restructure the first division. They said a regional first division is a possibility. Can't find any more information anywhere online though.

[blueblood]

Was in the Daily Mail today that they'll be voting on whether or not go with a 12 team prem, no mention of 16 team prem tho

[gufcfan]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/top-flight-expansion-set-to-be-capped-at-12-teams-2434748.html

Top flight expansion set to be capped at 12 teams

Thursday November 25 2010

CLUBS and officials lobbying for the introduction of a considerably enlarged League of Ireland Premier Division are set to be disappointed after the National League Executive Committee confirmed their intention to extend the top flight to just 12 teams.

However, all plans were on hold last night after a meeting of senior clubs in Abbotstown dragged on amid disagreements over the make-up of the First Division. The final decision will be made by the FAI Board of Management on December 10.

There are currently 10 teams in the top flight, and that is now set to rise by two for the 2012 campaign. It is envisaged they will each play each other twice before the league splits into two after 22 games, with the teams in the respective halves encountering each other twice more in the final run-in.

The NLEC, who met earlier in the day, came to the table with a proposal that the second tier would be divided into two regional leagues of eight, with senior sides from the 'A' Championship bumped up a tier to make up the numbers.

Yet that suggestion was opposed by the meeting, with a nationwide First Division with an undetermined amount of teams set to operate from 2012 onwards.

The news that a 12-team top flight is on the cards has angered those in the nether regions of the Premier Division and top half of the First Division who had argued that a 14 or 16 team competition would offer greater stability, and remove the repetition of fixtures which they believe affects attendances.

A 16-team top flight would also have guaranteed a regional spread compared to the current Dublin-centric league, with no Munster representation again in 2011.

Some clubs at the meeting argued that the league should gradually work towards extending the Premier Division to a 14 team competition by 2014 or 2015.

It seems likely that three teams will be promoted from next year's First Division with the bottom team in the Premier relegated.

- Daniel McDonnell

Irish Independent

Didn't see this coming myself...

[osarusan]

Spiltting into two.......Top six and bottom six......Back to 1991 again......Regionalised first division......Sweet Jesus, please let this be a joke.

I couldn't even think of less attractive plans.

[BonnieShels]

It's rubbish. And you're still playing some teams 4 times. Absolute balls.

[pineapple stu]

And now you'll play some three times at home and once away (or vice versa)

[Louth4sam]

And now you'll play some three times at home and once away (or vice versa)

You play every team once home and away. Then play 5 games home and away. So you can only play each team at the most twice at home.

Don't think this is a good idea. It will make the strong teams stronger and the weak teams weaker. Teams like bray, UCD, Galway etc that are likely to be in the bottom half will miss out in a lot of big gates as they won't be playing the likes of Rovers, Bohs, Pats Dundalk, Derry

[osarusan]

And now you'll play some three times at home and once away (or vice versa)

How so? Once home and away before the split, and the same again after the split? What am I missing?

[Mr A]

Bloody hell.. there are some stupid ideas in that article. I guess some of the 'big' clubs just couldn't face the idea of playing the little guys too often.

[Macy]

Nonsense plan - worst of all worlds.

[Dodge]

Bloody hell.. there are some stupid ideas in that article. I guess some of the 'big' clubs just couldn't face the idea of playing the little guys too often.

How many teams consider themselves big enough for the bottom 6 not to be a worry? I despair for clubs if thye vote for this mess.

The bottom 6 was depressing as hell...

[BonnieShels]

At last its consistent with the usual ******** that the FAI get up to.

[pineapple stu]

How so? Once home and away before the split, and the same again after the split? What am I missing?
Sorry, yeah - it's slightly different to the SPL split. It happens there cos the split is after the third round, not the second round. Disregard...

[BonnieShels]

As a thought could us at foot.ie thrash out a submission? And send it to the Executive.
I found my plan last night.

[Dodge]

As a thought could us at foot.ie thrash out a submission? And send it to the Executive.
I found my plan last night.
There as many nutjobs here as there are involved in the league's/club's administration

[Louth4sam]

How many teams consider themselves big enough for the bottom 6 not to be a worry?

Probably just rovers if we're honest. A bad run of form or bad luck and any other team could finish 7th even if there is only a point or two between them and the pack in front. It will be very difficult to pay wages if the season is effectively over in August. This is a terrible idea all round

[BonnieShels]

There as many nutjobs here as there are involved in the league's/club's administration

But we can employ a sh1t filter.

[Dodge]

Probably just rovers if we're honest. A bad run of form or bad luck and any other team could finish 7th even if there is only a point or two between them and the pack in front. It will be very difficult to pay wages if the season is effectively over in August. This is a terrible idea all round

Even Rovers are only at that level this year.

Thats why I can't see clubs voting for it. But then at every stage they seem to suprise me with how thick they can be

[gufct]

This is the death knell for LOI . I just despair at the thinking behind it can the clubs inside the pale not afford the extra travel Bill now that the carbon tax is doubled.Even Fianna Fail couldnt make a worse job of it absolute ****e:mad:

[SwanVsDalton]

Woke up to 'Size Of A Cow' by the Wonder Stuff on the radio and now I read this - is it actually 1991? The idea is a groan inducing disaster, sure to guarantee more league tinkering disruption for the next few years at least.

[Dodge]

As before, what makes you think its clubs "within the pale"? I'd guess Sligo and Derry would be 2 of the teams confident of finishing in top 6

[SwanVsDalton]

As before, what makes you think its clubs "within the pale"? I'd guess Sligo and Derry would be 2 of the teams confident of finishing in top 6

We'd certainly aspire to it but can't see us being too confident of anything much (apart from a league cup run, obviously).

[gufct]

A 16 team premier league is the only way forward and the Teams that are pushing for this 12 team are like Turkeys Voting for Christmas.

[osarusan]

The split division idea was put forward by the National League Executive Committee. Who is this?

I was under the impression that a few weeks ago, a majority of clubs voted for a 16-team prem. division and winter football, and the purpose of the recent meeting was to ratify that or not.

[Lim till i die]

There are currently 10 teams in the top flight, and that is now set to rise by two for the 2012 campaign. It is envisaged they will each play each other twice before the league splits into two after 22 games, with the teams in the respective halves encountering each other twice more in the final run-in.

:bulgy:

TEN games with nothing at stake for nearly half the division. Why in the name of god would anyone go to these games?!?!

[Dodge]

So we can look down our noses at barstoolers, d'uh...

[poster]

I'd guess Sligo and Derry would be 2 of the teams confident of finishing in top 6

Unfortunately, due to our annual sh!te start to the season, we'd be in trouble.

[legendz]

16 clubs would equate to a 30 games season. The split of 12 clubs equates to 22 games followed by 10 after the split, resulting in 32 games. Is the split really worth it for one extra home game a season?
If they do go with a split, there has to be a carrot for finishing top of the lower section. That'd have to come in the form of Europa League play-offs. Wales have introduced a format exactly like that. The 12 split after 22 games, top side of second section are involved in Europa League play-offs.
If they go with play-offs, the FAI Cup final would have to be held before the league finishes so clubs know what they are playing for heading into the play-offs. Generally the top 2 in the league will be in Europe and one more in the top 6 will most likely have qualified already through the Cup but it's not guaranteed. The Europa League play-off would have to factor for 4 clubs from the top section and at least one from the lower section.

[Mario]

The split thing was a disaster last time around, we ended up in it the first year and it was a graveward, worse than the first division!

Id sooner a 16 team premier than this split rubbish or the old woefull play eachother 3 times. In my oponion the only to build up interest across the country is having the "big" teams coming to town every so often.

Look at Athlone, struggling in the first division with great facilities but poor crowds. If Rovers or Derry or Pats were in town, they'd have some chance of getting the local day trippers out for the game, combined with a noisy away crowd, the whole experience might get some fans hooked.

[Dodge]

16 clubs would equate to a 30 games season. The split of 12 clubs equates to 22 games followed by 10 after the split, resulting in 32 games. Is the split really worth it for one extra home game a season?


Why doe you always post about the number of games? This isn't a factor for pretty much every club.

[mediahack]

It is my understanding that the NLEC presented this 12 team plan to the clubs last night with the First Division being regionalised into 2 groups of 8. This would mean that the 5 clubs in the A championship + 1 more would be invited into this First Division.

However, the clubs threw our this suggestion and have told the executive to go back to the drawing board and listen to the views of the clubs that have, apparently, been ignored.

A 12 team league is a non runner, but one issue that seems to have bolstered the clubs is the issue of what happens to those clubs who fail to make the cut for a 14 or 16 team premier.

What criteria do you use to exclude 6 clubs - could you get the A championship clubs and a new club to form a new First Division?

Shamrock Rovers have been the one team screaming for the retention of the ten team premier but surely playing everyone four times outside of league cups, fai cups, replays etc is ridiculous.

Apparently the vote on changing back to winter soccer was never on the cards as what has been quoted in the papers was only the result of the informal survey during this process (12 voted yes to winter soccer with 9 voting no!)


I think a major shift is required to revitalise this league.

I also think that a minimum of 14 teams in the Premier League is a fundamental requirement in any change. Whether it is a summer league or a winter league is debatable though with the introduction of the U19 Elite league from next August then does it make sense for your senior team to be playing in the summer while your next team would be playing in the winter (cos the A Championship would be gone!)

[passerrby]

those who ignore the past are bound to repeat it. what a bunch of idiots who are these nlec

[mediahack]

It seems there are a load from the FAI but nobody from the clubs!!!!!

From what I can gather........the chairman and League Director, Club licencing people, League manager, and Packie Bonner. The only person outside the FAI was Rico!!!

[Dodge]

Shamrock Rovers have been the one team screaming for the retention of the ten team premier Interesting. Certainly seems to be against the wishes of most of their fans here (whcih i accept mightn't be representative of Rovers fans in general)

[gufct]

This proves once and for all that the FAI couldnt give a flying **** about the league.I know for definite Fran Gavin was in Agreement with the 16 team premier so it must be our Great Beer Buyer that came up with this ludicrous decision.

[passerrby]

there goes the myth if you pay peanuts you get monkeys we dont pay peanuts but still manage to get...........

[MariborKev]

those who ignore the past are bound to repeat it. what a bunch of idiots who are these nlec

As compared to who, the clubs?

Some of the reasons clubs gave for winter football were ludricous. I particularly enjoyed the "We want winter football as we sell more rigs over Christmas". Dear Jesus....

[Lim till i die]

I know for definite Fran Gavin was in Agreement with the 16 team premier.

Why?? Did he tell you so??

Taking Fran Gavin at his word. :bulgy:

[Dodge]

As compared to who, the clubs?

Some of the reasons clubs gave for winter football were ludricous. I particularly enjoyed the "We want winter football as we sell more rigs over Christmas". Dear Jesus....

Rigs?

In fairness though the Winter/Summer debate was always a close one. Doesn't seem like the division size was

[passerrby]

As compared to who, the clubs?

Some of the reasons clubs gave for winter football were ludricous. I particularly enjoyed the "We want winter football as we sell more rigs over Christmas". Dear Jesus....

a twleve team premier failed in the past and and there is no reason to assume it would work in the future this was my point but as you bring up winter fooball the same point could be made it was terrible in winter why return to it.
but the people who dreamed up this new structure never ran a club winter or summer ,12 or 22 so have no idea what they are talking about.

[Ezeikial]

The split division idea was put forward by the National League Executive Committee. Who is this?
.


It seems there are a load from the FAI but nobody from the clubs!!!!!

From what I can gather........the chairman and League Director, Club licencing people, League manager, and Packie Bonner. The only person outside the FAI was Rico!!!

Can anyone else clarify who is on this Committee?

Is this simply the FAI in different clothing?

Back in early 2007 that was certainly the case, being made up of these guys-
http://foot.ie/threads/52197-FAI-make-two-national-league-appointments


Former chairman of Charlton Athletic Richard Collins and Chief Executive of Waterford Crystal and President of Waterford Wedgewood (USA) John Foley join a committee chaired by Paddy McCaul.

Eamon Naughton was elected to the role of vice chairman at the final AGM of the old eircom League. FAI honorary secretary Michael Cody was elected "by the 61 members from all strands of the game who sit on the FAI's National Council". FAI chief executive John Delaney is the other member of the committee which will work with League Director Fran Gavin to run and administer the new league.