16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[PartySaint]

Ideally, make it bigger, and then have 2 rounds of games, I'd say.

Just anything that doesn't involve a split

[osarusan]

It's like people sat down and decided to come up with the system to most effectively destroy the league.

"Remember that split? That was crap so put that in. Loads of meaningless games."

"What about the first division?" - "How about regionalising the f***er? That should sort it."

[BonnieShels]

And that's the end of that. Could we not just do an FAI and split from the FAI?

[legendz]

I always thought a regional division would come in the creation of a division two, turned out to be the A Championship then that came about. It's a bit much to get relegated from the Premier and wind up in a regional league.
I can only hope it is a temporary measure. If they go with this Premier of 12 and 2 sections of 8, the regionalised first division should be more attractive for potential new clubs than the A Championship is currently. The LoI top two tiers is going to expand to 28, if 4 new clubs can be attracted by the regional league in the next few years, I hope it'll mean the creation of a Premier of 16 then and division one will have it's two groups of 8. The new clubs joining the regionalised league are not ready for a national league. Expectations for new clubs to take part in a national league of 14 or 16 are unrealistic. In a few years time, if the state of the clubs have improved, it will be something to look at.
At the end of the day I'm not for the proposed format, this new format is a bad idea for existing clubs and if I was one of them I would not be for it. None of the top half clubs in Division One 2010 belong in a regionalised league. For new clubs I believe it's a good move though. Tralee for example should be able to generate more interest in these games. Playing clubs 4 times is a bit much but it's all that can be achieved considering the number of clubs.

Though I'm not for the proposed new format, progression I'd like to see under the proposed new format are:


I hope 4 new clubs will be attracted to the league by the regionalised first division. 4 areas that new clubs could potentially come from are: Kildare, Portlaoise, Clonmel and Mullingar.
If the number of clubs climbs to 32, I hope it'll lead to the expansion of the Premier to 16.
In time I hope the second tier of 16, below a Premier of 16, can become a national league.

[Dodge]

You going to post that every couple of hours?

[Macy]

To be perfectly honest, I'd be shocked if Harps didn't win that northern section.
They'll put Shels in the Northern Section to try and get them up, and also basically get one of Cork, Waterford, Limerick . Regionalised first is perfect for the FAI to gerrymander.

[Mr A]

To be perfectly honest, I'd be shocked if Harps didn't win that northern section.


I wouldn't. Harps could run a bath and come second.

[Fester]

So that is the FAI's grand plan. What a load of Cr*p.

[pineapple stu]

This line hasn't been commented on yet -


The mid-season break in 2011 is set to be delayed to coincide with the four-team tournament at Aviva Stadium in July.
So players who are selected for that can basically forfeit their summer holidays?

[Aberdonian Stu]

As well as any mercy from wives/girlfriends.

[redobit]

This line hasn't been commented on yet -


So players who are selected for that can basically forfeit their summer holidays?

Most of them are off 4 months of the year anyway.

[John83]

Most of them are off 4 months of the year anyway.
How many teams will have fully pro players next year? I'd have thought it won't be many.

[Dodge]

Sligo are the only ones trying to say they'll be fully professional next year

[Cabs88]

one of the big problems with a small league is the lack of variety, playing the same teams every couple of weeks.. as a supporter who enjoys away trips i think a regionalised league will be a terrible move; regardless of cost effectiveness of reduced travel theres nothing better than a few decent away trips in a season

[Louth4sam]

Sligo are the only ones trying to say they'll be fully professional next year

We are full time for the 40 weeks of the season. Three of our youth players have just signed professional contracts

[Sam_Heggy]

And that's the end of that. Could we not just do an FAI and split from the FAI?

[Mr A]

And that's the end of that. Could we not just do an FAI and split from the FAI?

It needed to be said. I'm glad somebody finally did so.

[BonnieShels]

They'll put Shels in the Northern Section to try and get them up, and also basically get one of Cork, Waterford, Limerick . Regionalised first is perfect for the FAI to gerrymander.

Could you really trust the FAI to gerrymander that successfully? I'm sure Limerick will end up in the Northern section because they are north of Waterford and Cork or something equally as sensible.
We will clearly win the First division in 2011 at a canter in September only for the FAI to announce that the top six will go up regardless.

NB. I do not think we will win anything at a canter next season.

[sullanefc]

Don't like the premier split. The regionalised first division is a good idea IMO. It will keep costs down for clubs and new clubs might be enticed to join. A championship is no loss.

[Mr A]

Don't like the premier split. The regionalised first division is a good idea IMO. It will keep costs down for clubs and new clubs might be enticed to join. A championship is no loss.

How so? I don't think travel costs are a major element of what makes being in the LOI expensive.

[Macy]

Could you really trust the FAI to gerrymander that successfully?
More than I'd trust shels not to bottle it, but that's where putting Limerick in the Northern Section would come in - give FAI plan B.


How so? I don't think travel costs are a major element of what makes being in the LOI expensive.
Insisting on Saturday or Sunday fixtures would probably be a bigger saving, as I believe at least some clubs have to cover lost wages for Friday night long distance games.

[Sam_Heggy]

It needed to be said. I'm glad somebody finally did so.

They do say, Mr A., that verbal insults hurt more than physical pain. They are of course wrong, as you will soon discover...when I stick this toasting fork in your head

[legendz]

Don't like the premier split. The regionalised first division is a good idea IMO. It will keep costs down for clubs and new clubs might be enticed to join. A championship is no loss.

I don't like the Premier split either. The regionalised first division, it's good for some but not for all.
To avoid the split, they could keep the Premier as a division of 10, or 12 over 3 series as before, which is a bit messy. Anyways if they did this without a split, they could have the 16 clubs split in division one and keep the A Championship, only inviting 4 up.


How so? I don't think travel costs are a major element of what makes being in the LOI expensive.

If travel costs aren't an issue, why don't they go straight for a 14 or 16 clubs national first division? I don't think many of the newer clubs are ready to take part in a national league. To bring these clubs in, it has to be regional. It's bad for the top 6 in the first division though, I don't think any of them belong in a regional league.

[Macy]

If travel costs aren't an issue, why don't they go straight for a 14 or 16 clubs national first division?
Because the FAI are clueless?

[legendz]

Because the FAI are clueless?

I don't think new clubs are ready for a national league is the answer. Are travel costs the reason some clubs are looking to end the A Championship as well or what is the reason for that? Three clubs in Division One field A sides so they must see some benefit from doing so.

[passerrby]

travel costs were never a major issue while midweek games is. this was used by the fai to try to sell this stupid idea of regionalising the first div while bringing more clubs to founder on the rocks of LOI.
silly plan by silly people, were doomed i tell ya doomed

[BonnieShels]

More doomed than you'll ever know. In sooth I not know why I am so sad.

Macy, we could surprise you by even bottling bottling-it. Though I suspect we'll leave it to the last kick in the last minute of the last game of the season to make a ******** of it.

[legendz]

It'll be crazy for Division One clubs to vote for a regional league. Surely clubs would prefer to be part of a Premier of 16. If the come up short and in Division One, I'd have thought they'd go for a national division of 8 below Premier of 16 than the proposed regionalised format.

[Jofspring]

Midweek games in the First Division is a very lame excuse if thats the line the FAI are going with. I think Limerick had only maybe 2 midweek games last season. Most the time if a first division team plays midweek its a cup game.

[holidaysong]

Has a decision been made on this yet? I remember reading somewhere that the FAI stated a decision on how many promotion / relegation places would be made by December 10th.

[harps1954]

It'll be crazy for Division One clubs to vote for a regional league.

No club will be voting for it as it's the FAI and the FAI alone who will be making the decision - the club's have no real say in it.

Remember, the club's have already put their proposals to the FAI (a sixteen team Premier) but the FAI's response was to go with a 12 team PD with the split mid-season and then a regionalised FD.

[harps1954]

Has a decision been made on this yet? I remember reading somewhere that the FAI stated a decision on how many promotion / relegation places would be made by December 10th.

There were due to be meetings held over the last week or so, but were cancelled twice because of the poor travelling conditions. I think there is a meeting scheduled for next week but not sure which day.

[legendz]

Has a decision been made on this yet? I remember reading somewhere that the FAI stated a decision on how many promotion / relegation places would be made by December 10th.

This is my understanding as well. An article in the Indo a few weeks ago said there'll be a meeting today, 10th of December.

[legendz]

No club will be voting for it as it's the FAI and the FAI alone who will be making the decision - the club's have no real say in it.

Remember, the club's have already put their proposals to the FAI (a sixteen team Premier) but the FAI's response was to go with a 12 team PD with the split mid-season and then a regionalised FD.

What was the clubs proposal for the First Division?

[Sam_Heggy]

What was the clubs proposal for the First Division?

Introduce a new pyramid system with a guaranteed 30 games for each side.

[Dodge]

Any mention of league cup?

[Sam_Heggy]

Any mention of league cup?

Giving that the Champions League place to re-generate the competition.

[legendz]

Ha ha, I'm sure that proposal is top of the agenda!

Some reckon the number of games doesn't matter but the 26 games a 14 team Premier would give would be too few.
One thing that could be done however, if they could run two national divisions, both the Premier and First Division with 14 clubs in each, the League Cup could be revamped to 7 groups of 4, home and away in the groups. Top 2 in each group and the best two third placed sides to go through to the last 16. A final in the Aviva with a Europa League place on offer. It'd guarantee each club 16 home games, between League and League Cup. Division One clubs will get two home games against Premier opposition, giving them more high profile games than they get at present.

I've yet to see a good format for the First Division in any new structure.

[Sam_Heggy]

Oh
Sweet
Jaysus

[legendz]

There's a whole lot more!

[passerrby]

I bloody hope not

[paudie]

Jeez, I hate the plan to split the Prem division after 2 series.

[gael353]

the prem split thing is stupid but the regionalised first division is the wakiest thing ever. It would be the death of any present day first division club, as crowds wouldnt exactly flock to see monaghan Vs fanad utd or limerick v carlow town for example. Im sure this is the plan to get rid of clubs and just have a top tier in 4 years or something of 14 teams i have faith in those clever chaps in the FAI :ttth:

[Dodge]

the prem split thing is stupid but the regionalised first division is the wakiest thing ever. It would be the death of any present day first division club, as crowds wouldnt exactly flock to see monaghan Vs fanad utd or limerick v carlow town for example.

IS it any less appealing than, say, Monaghan v Limerick ?

[Jofspring]

IS it any less appealing than, say, Monaghan v Limerick ?

I'd have to say yes. Monaghan and Limerick are more established in the LOI and would be a lot more competitive than Carlow or Fanad.

I've said it before, i would have no problem with Fanad, Carlow, Tralee etc.. being in the first division as it would give a great spread around the league. The main problem would be playing these teams at home twice a season. I would think for example Limerick vs Shels once a season would draw a bigger crowd for us than the two Limerick vs Tralee games put together and the cost of holding one game would be less than the two.

[nigel-harps1954]

No harm here to the clubs, but Fanad Utd being in the first division would most definitely be attracting as much of a home crowd as ANY of Salthill, Mervue, Longford, Monaghan or Wexford.
There is a very very large area of a fanbase from which Fanad can choose from, very little of which in that area even recognise Harps and would rather watch and Ulster Senior League game of Fanads.
So yes Gael353, there is as much interest there as anywhere.
I would most welcome Fanad into any such league, and I'm sure the likes of Carlow, Tullamore etc would have as much mass appeal in areas with little or no senior football.
The extension of the league is vital in the league progressing onwards if you ask me. Adding more clubs is not going to kill any existing club. To suggest so makes no logical sense.

[davidatrb]

I'd be in favour of the fewer games from a financial point of view. Match day expenses are a drain to the smaller clubs in particular. Less games mean that you will get more bang for your buck - each game is that little bit more important and will generate a little more interest and drive up attendances. You could also eliminate midweek games which are invariably in places like Cobh or Ballybofey.

The FAI need to help out with some of the match day costs, I can think of referees for example. I think most professional leagues across the world pay for the refs.

[legendz]

You're right Paudie, the split plan is ridiculous. They'd want to wait and see how Wales get on with it first.
I think Fanad will have a big support. I hear they have former Derry City and Harps players. Whenever they play either in friendlies, the games are supposed to be competitive enough. nigel-harps1954 is right, they'd attract as much interest as the clubs mentioned. Adding clubs won't kill the league but it shouldn't be affecting the structure in that established clubs have to move to a regional league.
Are fewer games really better for a clubs finances? Matchday income from ticket receipts make up a sizeable percentage of a clubs income. There is issues with support in some areas but this should not mean a reduction in games, especially for well supported clubs. At most if games are reduced, especially to cut down on the midweek games, 4 or 6 games could be shaved off. I don't think they should go more than that.
Will switching more games to Saturday or Sunday afternoons help a clubs finances? I don't think games should clash with live coverage on RTE either. The number of Monoday night games this year on at the same time as MNS was ridiculous as well.
Format discussions are great passerrby! :D
If clubs are more than an hours drive apart, it might be better to move away from Friday evening kick-offs for these games. People are still lucky enough to have jobs and getting to these games would be easier over the weekend.

[culloty82]

If Friday's meeting was cancelled, it'll hardly happen before the New Year now - then again, Bray didn't know what division they were in this year until 3 weeks before kick-off, so the 2012 format might be finalised sometime round February.

[MariborKev]

Introduce a new pyramid system with a guaranteed 30 games for each side.

Eh, not what I heard Sam.

Meeting is due the 15th AFAIK.