SPL Discussion Thread

[Bottle of Tonic]

Stephen Kenny gets a bit of a boost for the remainder of the season with Dunfermline's 1-0 Scottish Cup win over Hearts yesterday.

[Hibs4Ever]

Good draw for Hibs today, would be looking to get winners of Dunfirmline & Partick if we get through.

Tough draw for Celtic, Inverness is tough place to get result

[eirebhoy]

Strachan: "We were watching a genius at work today. We all hear about his limitations. It's said he doesn't tackle. So what? He's incredibly brave because if you watch how he uses his feet, he takes kicks and it hurts - yet he puts in incredible passes."

[drinkfeckarse]

I read that today and just knew you'd be putting it up :)

[eirebhoy]

haha :D

One of the few times he put in a great performance in front of the camera's. Almost 20 assists now this season.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Was nice to see Celtic playing some brilliant football again, albeit only in patches and against Div 1 opposition. Some of the keep ball, passing and finishing was fantastic.
Quiet enough debut from hartely but with naka in that form you could hardly blame him for being overshadowed. I'm actually surprised he hasn't got more than 20 assists. Every goal recently has come through that left boot.
Apparently Hibs put the english pub team to the sword with relative ease.
Not expecting too much opposition for them in QOTS. Inverness is a completely different story.

[bennocelt]

cough......... Livingston;)

[geysir]

Interesting CL game with Milan last night Those Italians are a template of how to defend and some lovely movement on the ball.
I thought Sno did well for such a young lad, much improved since the group stages, I'd assume that he is almost ready to replace Lennon, that that's the role he will play.

[drinkfeckarse]

Sno did well but I was disappointed when I saw that it was him and Lennon in the middle. No attacking option from either and I lost count of the number of times that both but especially Sno, came right back on top of the two centre halves to take the ball off them, pass it about 3 or 4 times amongst themselves whilst only gaining ten yards and then it ended up getting humped up the park.

There's no need for them to come as deep as that because A They're taking a ball which the defender could quite easily play and B With them coming as deep for the ball the are technically leaving the midfield short with little options while at the same time keeping their own team too deep in their own half as the other team is allowed to push up to fill the gaps and close them down.

I thought it was a poor performance by Celtic but I suppose it's a measue of how far they've come in recent years when you are disappointed with a 0-0 draw at home to Milan.

[RogerMilla]

sno was excellent but yes i agree a midfield with him and lennon is going nowhere. he will take over that role from lennon i'm sure. It's time somone filled petrovs boots, gravesen needs to be that man.

[drinkfeckarse]

Yeah next season is a big season for Graveson. While I don't think he's been bad by any means he hasn't done enough yet to warrant being the clubs top earner.

Most players need a settling in period though and I think a lot of fans realise that. Next season they might not be so forgiving though.

[eirebhoy]

Milan got their tactics spot on. Double mark McGeady and Naka and that's most of the job done. Lennon and Sno played very well and we had much more possesion but Milan were class. The best I've seen Milan in a long time.

[OwlsFan]

Very strange of Strachan to say he would settle for a 0-0 before the game for a team that doesn't win away from home in the CL :confused: Great scenes at the start of the game but the passion seemed to die off or was that an illusion or did AC kill the crowd with its keep ball?

[drinkfeckarse]

The passion did die off but to be fair, the team didn't give the fans a lot to go on.

[bennocelt]

by the way how did NaKI play? .what no goals..really im surprised.oh yeah i forgot it was Ac Milan and not inverness, my apolgies

[eirebhoy]

Very strange of Strachan to say he would settle for a 0-0 before the game for a team that doesn't win away from home in the CL :confused: Great scenes at the start of the game but the passion seemed to die off or was that an illusion or did AC kill the crowd with its keep ball?
I didn't know he said he'd settle for a 0-0 before the game. I heard him say he was happy with the 0-0 the way the game panned out. Celtic's away form got them to the UEFA cup final so hopefully they can do well in the San Siro. They didn't do too badly the last time, an 89th minute Inzaghi goal won it. :( Also, Juve didn't deserve to beat Celtic over there, a dive won them a last minute peno.

I wouldn't be confident of them getting the draw/win over there but anything is possible. :)

[OwlsFan]

I didn't know he said he'd settle for a 0-0 before the game. I heard him say he was happy with the 0-0 the way the game panned out. Celtic's away form got them to the UEFA cup final so hopefully they can do well in the San Siro. They didn't do too badly the last time, an 89th minute Inzaghi goal won it. :( Also, Juve didn't deserve to beat Celtic over there, a dive won them a last minute peno.

I wouldn't be confident of them getting the draw/win over there but anything is possible. :)

According to whoever was commentating on Sky - he mentioned it early on in the game and they constantly referred to it.

Is O'Dea getting in ahead of Balde or is the latter injured?

[eirebhoy]

Balde's injured, long term. Caldwell is back in training. Kennedy was on the bench for the first time in almost 3 years after getting injured playing for Scotland. Pressley cup tied. Plenty of centre halfs but their all much of a muchness.

[OwlsFan]

Celtic need more punch up front with yer man Vinegar ;) but I am not sure Miller is the answer. Full backs' distribution was ordinary as well. They need one creative box to box midfielder and another good striker and who knows where they might go in Europe.

[eirebhoy]

Hartley and Gravesen are good box to box midfielders, I'd love to see the 2 of them together in the centre. I agree a new striker is needed. The full backs hit the ball into space too much but Milan had the players well marked. They couldn't just give it Naka or McGeady like they usually would.

I think the most important player Celtic need is deap lying playmaker. Hopefully Tymoschuk will join, he's constantly linked.

[drinkfeckarse]

I think the most important player Celtic need is deap lying playmaker. Hopefully Tymoschuk will join, he's constantly linked.

You'll have seen that he signed for Zenit St Petersberg yesterday for £10m!! No way would Celtic have paid that for him and no way do I think he's worth it, good player that he is. Celtic offered £2.2m for him last summer so they were never serious contenders if Shakhtar were looking for that amount.

[eirebhoy]

Apparantly his contract is unprotected (the new FIFA thing) and he could have got bought out of his contract for around £2m. I don't know how true that is, it was in an Italian newspaper.

£10m is still less than Carrick and he's at least as good as him. :) Not that Celtic would even have paid half that.

[geysir]

After the home game I was expecting Milan to cruise it but they had to sweat buckets for it.
The Back 5 performed superbly well. Naka was somewhere between subdued and pish, criminal in this, the game of the season for the most creative player. The goal, most reports hold Sno culpable for losing possesion but Lennon should have done much better, after that it was a brilliantly well taken goal.
Milan's sub was worth more than the whole Celtic team.
Strachan had the team well prepared for the battle.
Did you notice the ballboys behind Boruc's goal vanished for the rest of the game after Milan scored?

[Roadend]

I noticed Neil Lennon's immense gut after the game, it sent Souness and Gullit into hysterics.

[OwlsFan]

I noticed that about the ball boys as well.

A 0-0 at home spelled doom for Celtic. They never looked like scoring in the away leg but competed well. The peno appeals: not the stone-wallers that Lou Macari claimed. I thought Naki leaned in to the Italian defender but I have seen them given. The other one was ball to hand I think.

Beattie drove me mad when he came on, falling over and losing possession. Delighted with the performance of O'Dea. McGeady gets muscled off the ball too easy sometimes but did pose a threat. Graveson looked lively but one always suspected the Italians would win in the end.

[geysir]

Fortune has favoured O'Dea with him getting games, makes you wonder would his first team career ever have kick started otherwise.
Agreed about McGeady at this level, a good defence will wrap him easy enough. But O'Dea, exactly the type of player we need in the squad.
On Beattie, the sky co commentator was on about Beatties super turn of pace, he looked like he could get outpaced by a carthorse.

[eirebhoy]

I was hoping Gravesen would start but it couldn't have worked out better with him coming on at 0-0 after an hour.

The first penalty claim was a stonewaller but i wasn't too disappointed at the time. I wouldn't have fancied Celtic to hold on sitting back for 85 minutes with Milan going all out attack.

The 2nd one though should have been a peno imo and we would have won the game if it was scored. Naka was poor last night. You'll never see Naka at his best unless Celtic are controlling the game which is probably why he plays for Celtic and not Barcelona (Reggina spent 90% of their matches on the back foot). He hasn't got the pace to play on the break either. Ironically, it was his counter attack that led up the penalty claim. He took the ball from his own half, made a 1 2 with Gravesen, ran into the Milan box, cut inside, about to pull the trigger and Ambrosini ran into him.

It wasn't intentional from Ambrosini but he didn't get the ball and Naka would surely have scored if he didn't get taken down.

Anyway, anything from this was a bonus. Celtic will only get better under Strachan.

[geysir]

I was hoping Gravesen would start but it couldn't have worked out better with him coming on at 0-0 after an hour.
Let's say his entry to the field of play was very timely but there were a few things that could have worked out better.

[OwlsFan]

I was hoping Gravesen would start but it couldn't have worked out better with him coming on at 0-0 after an hour.

The first penalty claim was a stonewaller but i wasn't too disappointed at the time. I wouldn't have fancied Celtic to hold on sitting back for 85 minutes with Milan going all out attack.

The 2nd one though should have been a peno imo and we would have won the game if it was scored. Naka was poor last night. You'll never see Naka at his best unless Celtic are controlling the game which is probably why he plays for Celtic and not Barcelona (Reggina spent 90% of their matches on the back foot). He hasn't got the pace to play on the break either. Ironically, it was his counter attack that led up the penalty claim. He took the ball from his own half, made a 1 2 with Gravesen, ran into the Milan box, cut inside, about to pull the trigger and Ambrosini ran into him.

It wasn't intentional from Ambrosini but he didn't get the ball and Naka would surely have scored if he didn't get taken down.

Anyway, anything from this was a bonus. Celtic will only get better under Strachan.

Did you find the commentator on Setanta patronising to Celtic? He made it sound like a miracle that Celtic had made it to half time 0-0 and his comments throughout the 90 minutes and beyond were as if it was Donegal Celtic and not Glasgow Celtic that were playing.

[eirebhoy]

I watched it on Sky. It's a lot better. Ruud Gullit rates Celtic higher than most pundits and said he believes Celtic had a good chance of getting through.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Just back from the game where the support was amazing by the way. Thought O'Dea was immense and if it had been him facing Kaka for the goal rather than McManus we might have held on a bit longer. However we never really looked like scoring, crosses and set pieces were woeful and we were never willing to have a pop from outside the box.
Agree the team is going places under Strachan. I like his attitude of we can and will get better. Under MON it was more about maintaining what we already had. Proud of the team and supporters once again.:ball:

[eirebhoy]

Celtic should have been 3 or 4 goals up by half time today and go on to lose. :( I can't remember being that frustrated watching Celtic in a long time.

[drinkfeckarse]

That was a regular occurance in Old Firm games during the Tommy Burns era.

[drinkfeckarse]

Celtic linked with Stephen Appiah of Fenerbahce. Decent player from the few times I've seen him. Also Scott McDonald from Motherwell is apparently signed up. Confused about that one, he's quite a clever player and will score his share but it's questionable whether he's better than Zurawski and Miller who are allegedly being shipped out during the summer and not exactly a signing the fans would be hoping for. Don't think he'll actually improve the team really and that's what you should be looking for.

He definately needs to get rid of some strikers anyway as Celtic are top heavy with them as it is.

[Cymro]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_cups/6584541.stm

Jim McIntyre's cheeky late penalty secured Uefa Cup football for Dunfermline after victory in a scintillating Scottish Cup semi-final.
Only 8,500 turned up to the replay at the national stadium, but the stay-away fans missed a cracker.

The Pars' Phil McGuire and Hibs' Scott Brown both had efforts cleared off the goal line during a first half of end-to-end action at Hampden Park.

And McIntyre fired the winner after Adam Hammill was felled by Chris Hogg.

Hammill had returned to the starting line-up along with Darren Young and Phil McGuire in the absence of the suspended Scott Wilson and cup-tied Tam McManus and Stephen Glass.

Hibs boss John Collins had brought back most of his experienced men after making eight changes for Saturday's league draw with Aberdeen.

But Damon Gray retained his place ahead of Steven Fletcher after the young striker scored at Pittodrie.

And it was Hibs who grabbed the initiative from the start, with Abdessalam Benjelloun firing straight at goalkeeper Dorus De Vries from 25 yards.

Gray almost latched on to a ball over the top of the Dunfermline defence that beat the offside trap.

But Dunfermline started to force their way into the game and goalkeeper Andrew McNeil did well to turn a low Hammill drive wide after it took a deflection.

It was McNeil to the rescue again, blocking Jim McIntyre's header from a corner and, when McGuire's knee connected with the rebound, Lewis Stevenson headed off the line.

Scott Brown was lucky not to be cautioned when he chipped the ball into the face of Jamie McCunnie after Hibs were awarded a free-kick.

But Brown showed the more pleasing side to his character, weaving his way through the defence and chipping over the advancing De Vries only to watch as Greg Shields cleared off the line.

De Vries had to turn a 25-yard drive from Stevenson as Hibs applied the pressure again.

And Benjelloun curled a drive over from the edge of the box.

Collins replaced the anonymous Gray with Fletcher at half-time, but it was Dunfermline who were the greater threat early in the second half.

Nine players on show were one caution away from missing the final and Dunfermline's Gary Mason became the first to fall foul of the two-booking rule after a late challenge on Steven Whittaker.

Jones headed wide of the Pars post following a corner and Fletcher again rose above the defence but fired over from eight yards.

A shot on the turn by Brown was half blocked by De Vries and McCunnie cleared off the line, while a Fletcher drive flew wide.

But Dunfermline broke forward and Hammill was knocked down by Hogg after jinking into the box.

McIntyre lazily chipped the penalty kick into the centre of the net as McNeil dived to his right.

The Hibs goalkeeper prevented Mark Burchill scoring a second on the break with a fine save, but one goal was enough for the team sitting bottom of the SPL.

Dunfermline: De Vries, Shields, McGuire, Bamba, Muirhead, Young (Burchill 77), Mason, McCunnie, Hammill (Ross 88), O'Brien (Owen Morrison 70), McIntyre.
Subs Not Used: McKenzie, Daquin.

Booked: Mason, Hammill, McIntyre.

Goal: McIntyre 88 pen.

Hibernian: McNeil, Whittaker, Hogg, Jones, Murphy, Scott Brown, Beuzelin (Chisholm 74), Stevenson, Sproule (Shiels 67), Benjelloun, Gray (Fletcher 46).
Subs Not Used: Simon Brown, McCann.

Booked: Stevenson.

Att: 8,536

Ref: C Thomson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will they even win their first round tie? :eek:

[Schumi]

Could be a useful draw for Pats or Drogheda.

[Risteard]

Well done Mr. Kenny.

Now get out of Dunfermline before ya end up struggling against Stirling Albion.

[Soper]

Gretna mark II

[Poor Student]

Could be a useful draw for Pats or Drogheda.

Facing Stephen Kenny in Europe?

[BohsPartisan]

Roll on "SuperPars" winning Post of the Year 2007! :D

[eirebhoy]

Dunfermline fan on Kenny...



He's popular and getting even more popular. Yorkston got credit from the fans for taking a chance on this young manager. His CV was excellent but some people thought Yorkson and the board would go for a more experienced manager. We were all delighted when he appointed kenny. Its a gamble and there was no certainty in it working but it likes like it was the correct gamble.

It's paying off, the team is fitter, stronger and they are playing some lovely football. They seem to know when to fight, when to defend and when to just say stuff it and go on a Calvary charge. Kenny won't take an forward of and replace him with a defender, he'll take a midfielder of and replace him with a striker. Can't promise that in the final though. I suspect if we were 1-0 up with 10 minutes to go we might just try and bore your team to lose the will to live.

The defence is a big difference, we're not playing a defencive game but we aren't conceding which is great.

The other thing about Kenny is he seem a genuinely nice guy. Hes also a great diplomat. People might not like Yorkston, Pars fans are divided but Kenny will bring back respect for us in a footballing and of the pitch way.

So the fans are right behind kenny. OK its taken a while for his team to gel and start getting results. We might still lose our SPL place but, Kenny is a man who builds foundations first and then builds a strong and lasting team. If we go down then Kennys the man to get us up again. Just think, instead of East End Park you will get extra opportunities to go to Fir park and watch Gretna ;-)

It puts into perspective Calderwood. He might have taken us to a cup final, he might have done well in the league but it was built on sand and he spent a fortune in the process. We escaped administration by a whisker. The Calderwood left without a word of goodbye. What really annoyed fans was they way he talked about us. He never once acknowledged the fans who supported the team. All he could do was moan about the lack of fans. Fair enough, we're not Celtic or Rangers but believe it or not we are far from being the worst supported club in the SPL. The way Calderwood talked you would think we were. The other thing Calderwood did was to drag Dunfermline name down. He's just no a very nice man.

OK bit long, sorry but I think it answers the kenny question fully.

[DmanDmythDledge]

St. Mirren did the unlikely and beat Falkirk at the weekend, winning their first match since Stephen's Day. 4 points between them and Dunfermline, with them facing each other next Monday.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Yup, heading to that game tonight myself with a Pars man and a Diet Hun. Every time I've seen Dunfermline play I've vowed never to watch them again it's been so dull and negative, a lowlight being the CIS cup final 06 against Celtic (you'd never have thought they were in a cup final). But our paths always seem to cross and I'm expecting better tonight. Pars fans over here a v happy with Kenny and the football they are playing. Still struggling for goals mind, but these end of season relegation battles often turn out to be crackers...

[Cymro]

Dunfermline won the relegation six-pointer tonight to move within a point of St. Mirren.

Crowd of over 10,000 at the game! :eek:

[eirebhoy]

Fixtures.

Dunfermline v Motherwell
Inverness CT v Dunfermline
Dunfermline v Falkirk

Dundee Utd v St Mirren
Motherwell v St Mirren
St Mirren v Inverness CT

That really should be 2 home wins for Dunfermline. I'd love to see them do it.

Dunfermline haven't conceded a goal in 5 and do their best to play attacking football.

[green army]

Apparantly his contract is unprotected (the new FIFA thing)

dont think its new. its been in championship manager for years now:D

[Bottle of Tonic]

Crowd of over 10,000 at the game! :eek:[/QUOTE]


It helps when the tickets were only a tenner, 2 quid for under 16's. Atmosphere was great. With some EPL teams reducing prices recently too it really is something to look into for the smaller/less successful clubs in order to boost their gates and generate a bit of an atmosphere as well as snaring some of the younger fans who might be more likely to head the way of Celtic/Man Utd/etc.
Football wasn't great but when they got it down and passed it the game improved. Jim O Brien had a bit of an off day.
By the way what do you all think of the split? It has its critics but I have to say I like it. Top teams only playing good in form teams for the run in, points dropped everywhere, and those at the bottom slog it out together to avoid relegation. Does any other league have a similar arrangement?

[Cymro]

It's nice to see some clubs cutting prices. I think football has become quite overpriced these days which is why I'm starting to watch a lot more of my local side Port Talbot in the Welsh league rather than follow Swansea away. Tickets are often £20 for an adult at some clubs which for League One football is a bit of a joke.

As for the split, I'm not a big fan of the idea. I think the SPL should just expand to 14 or 16 clubs and do an nextra 'round' of games instead.

The split can make for some exciting games but I think it deals too much of a financial blow to those who finish in the bottom half and miss out on getting one of the Old Firm and all the gate receipts, TV money etc. that comes with it.

We're already seeing a bit of a gulf developing between a fairly clear top 6 (Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and Killie) and the rest. I personally feel the split should be scrapped.

[eirebhoy]

By the way what do you all think of the split? It has its critics but I have to say I like it.
We had a debate about this in the EL forum. The way the SPL do it (using a lot of common sense with the fixtures) it's without doubt the fairest system for a 12 team league.

[geysir]

It's a good system.
It's just tough on the team that was maybe edged out of the top 6 and get send to scrap it out with the low lifes.

How well would Hearts have done if they didn't self destruct? I suspect they would have been there at the end, if not pole position.