SPL Discussion Thread

[pineapple stu]

Also - go on the Sammo! Eight goals this season (http://www.kilmarnock-mad.co.uk/kilmarnock/player/season_140/conor_sammon_55415/index.shtml) now.

[OwlsFan]

God, for a moment I thought you were talking about Samaras. He must be the most frustrating footballer in the world to watch. Saw him last night against Hearts. How often does he give the ball away? Stokes was poor enough as well.

[pineapple stu]

Seeing as you're bumping - go on the Sammo! Go on the Sammo! Up to ten now.

[OwlsFan]

I see there is talk of a strike by refs in Scotland. To be honest I am surprised the Premiership lot don't join them seeing that they are castigated every weekend on SKy by Andy Gray after 65 slow motions are shown of their incorrect decisions. Whay anyone would want to be a referee and particularly a linesman I have no idea. An absolutely thankless job.

[geysir]

The thanks are in the wages, as my ganger use to say.

I see the SFA are looking to the possibility of trying to break the strike with scabs from Ireland.

[Junior]

I see the SFA are looking to the possibility of trying to break the strike with scabs from Ireland.

Scabs from Ireland, Wales, Iceland, wherever I think.

Would be interesting to see the Rangers fans reaction to Paddy Murphy reffing their game at the weekend. The paranoia could do a full circle!!!

[Plastic Paddy]

Would be interesting to see the Rangers fans reaction to Paddy Murphy reffing their game at the weekend. The paranoia could do a full circle!!!

In 2008, Watty No-name stated their position regarding Murphy (in this case the Scottish linesman) following TFOD's game with Motherwell:


Mr Murphy was quick to allow a Scott McDonald goal at Celtic Park last season. And he was quick to disallow that one (by Kris Boyd) tonight

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/2008/11/13/rangers-boss-walter-smith-blasts-linesman-over-offside-blunder-86908-20891037/

For the life of me I can't see what Celtic had to do with TFOD's failure to beat Motherwell, but maybe I'm missing something. Rangers paranoia much?

:ball: PP

[geysir]

Scabs are not us (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/irish-refs-not-for-scotland-2432989.html)

Looks like the SFA will have a job to find their scabs. It's bad enough being a ref, but to be a scab and ref at the same time?

[OwlsFan]

. It's bad enough being a ref, but to be a scab and ref at the same time?

:)

While I have sympathy for the refs I am not sure what the end result of a strike would be since their decisions will always be criticised, especially if a penalty is awarded against Celtic (and then taken back following a discussion with a linesman who probably is a member of some satanic lodge). ;)

[geysir]

The strike is on (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk:80/sport/editor-s-picks/referee-strike-is-on-as-last-ditch-talks-fail-1.1070812)
The SFA claim they have been able to find some refs to officiate the SPL games but it looks like there will be a fixture wipeout.
I wonder which association has collaborated to try break the strike? The Dutch refs lost their courage and bottled an initial willingness to help. Will the Scottish refs organise a picket outside the game?
I wouldn't pass an official picket. Can you imagine the sight of a few refs with a loudhailer, shouting 'scabs' 'scabs' at the supporters who pass the picket. The striking refs will reclaim the moral high ground.

[BonnieShels]

Well I'm crossing it... Hibs v St Johnstone tomorrow for me. NYIAOW!

[bennocelt]

Scab!!!

[geysir]

All in all, it is turning into some Fawlty Towers like comedy show. The Portuguese refs did an about turn at Glasgow airport.

Hugh Dallas has quit, citing family reasons. Nothing to do with the furore over him forwarding an email about the Pope or him being accused by that linesman (from the Celtic v DU game, the unfortunately named Mr.Craven) of “victimisation, harassment and bullying”.

[Junior]

Scottish Football is in a mess, no doubt. Stewart Regan has an uneviable task on his hands to sort it out.

Dallas got the bullet (as well as others, unnamed that were involved in the email scandal), Dougie McDonald has now retired/resigned, Craven also retired.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9240281.stm

[OwlsFan]

I see McCoist has been announced as the new manager of Rangers once Walter Smith steps down. Hardly the greatest surprise in the world but interestingly they are only giving him a one year contract which makes sense until they see whether he can cut the mustard.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/9404913.stm

[geysir]

I'm sure I used that expression 'cut the mustard' somewhere in a post yesterday.

In contrast to a lean mean fit looking Neil Lennon, a rotund Ally has the bloated face of a man who has been struggling with one too many hangovers.

[OwlsFan]

I'm sure I used that expression 'cut the mustard' somewhere in a post yesterday.

Are you accusing me of plagiarism or perhaps subliminally I just copy you ;) ?



In contrast to a lean mean fit looking Neil Lennon, a rotund Ally has the bloated face of a man who has been struggling with one too many hangovers.

A bloated face of a man struggling with one too many hangovers never did Alex Ferguson any harm!

[legendz]

I'm glad to see Celtic are doing well. To be fair they do come over here a fair bit.

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm glad to see Celtic are doing well.

As are most Irish people, despite whatever is said on here. ;) The Treble is on...

:ball: PP

[OwlsFan]

I think Lennon needs to cop on though and behave himself and not get involved with the likes of Diouf and even McCoist at the end. One has to contrast his behaviour with Walter Smith.

If Celtic had 3 players sent off at Ibrox, there would be talk of conspiracy etc. Delighted of course to see them win but I would hate to be a referee in one of those games.

[geysir]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQneJ6qNnBcjS0ysVqLBs3ks421Zflc7 dKl_PU3v-4GiBZUYWcTMw

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40550000/jpg/_40550125_oneilllennon203.jpg


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40546000/jpg/_40546861_thompsonbutt203.jpg

[old git]

I think Lennon needs to cop on though and behave himself and not get involved with the likes of Diouf and even McCoist at the end. One has to contrast his behaviour with Walter Smith.

If Celtic had 3 players sent off at Ibrox, there would be talk of conspiracy etc. Delighted of course to see them win but I would hate to be a referee in one of those games.

don't think lennon will change always seemed to be a person who reacted without thinking at times same when he played he was always in the middle of rows or mouthing off at players just think it is part of his passion for celtic and lets not forget some of the horrible threats etc aimed his way over the years ...so it may be his way at giving something back .. easy in hindsight not to get involved as we dont know what comments were passed between individuals but last night with celtic winning he should have kept his head down and walked away a happy man

[OwlsFan]

I agree. That seems to be his personality but as a manager now, especially of a club like Celtic where there are undercurrents in society that are hostile, he needs to control himself and not be provoked. Anger management counselling perhaps? Elements in Celtic also, it has to be said, have tried to provoke Diouf since the first day of his arrival which does the club no credit.

[old git]

I agree. That seems to be his personality but as a manager now, especially of a club like Celtic where there are undercurrents in society that are hostile, he needs to control himself and not be provoked. Anger management counselling perhaps? Elements in Celtic also, it has to be said, have tried to provoke Diouf since the first day of his arrival which does the club no credit.
agree to an extent .. diouf is no angel either and did not help his case writting articles in paper after his first old firm game .. i also think it is part of the modern game now to try and provoke opposition players ... biggest letdown was chairman of sfa issuing statement after recent game blaming both sets of players clubs for improper behaviour on & off the pitch.. watched match and cannot see how they can blame any celtic players for what happened on & off the pitch .. blame here lies totally with rangers .. players reacted badly to sending offs , put serious pressure on ref / diouf walks half length of pitch at end of game to throw his top to rangers fans after being sent off . !! looks like sfa looking for another excuse to have a go at celtic.

[OwlsFan]

agree to an extent .. diouf is no angel either and did not help his case writting articles in paper after his first old firm game .. i also think it is part of the modern game now to try and provoke opposition players ...

No as blatantly as Brown tried to provoke Diouf. Everyone knows Diouf is a headbanger but the attempts to get under his skin were SO obvious and without any subtlety.

I'd love to know what McLeish whispered in Lennon's ear that made him go ballistic while giving him a hug at the same time.

[geysir]

That almost total nonsense Owls.
With 3 Celtic players booked, generally their behaviour was impeccable in the game. In contrast Rangers foul and card count hit the roof.
Walter knows Celtic have the beating of Rangers and has reverted to a dirty physical game complete with wind up tactics. Why else would they sign that waster Diouf, except for the wind up value? Lennon took the bait for sure but why would McCoist wind him up like that? Look for the motive.

Anyway if you turned down the sound of the commentator going into hysterics, what you actually saw hardly merited a handbag label.

[ArdeeBhoy]

McCoist told him to "stay away from my players".

Love Lennon's passion, predictably, but the man sadly has substantial personality flaws (Partially chronicled in his ghosted autobiography) which I'm coming round to believe, mean he is inherently unsuitable to manage one of the best-supported clubs in Europe.
However, he does have a chance to change and should try to take it....

[old git]

McCoist told him to "stay away from my players".

Love Lennon's passion, predictably, but the man sadly has substantial personality flaws (Partially chronicled in his ghosted autobiography) which I'm coming round to believe, mean he is inherently unsuitable to manage one of the best-supported clubs in Europe.
However, he does have a chance to change and should try to take it....

its a shame after 3 rangers players get sent off / mc coist & lennon clash at final whistle everybody seems to be only having a go at lennons behaviour !! oh i would find it hard to believe thats all mc coist said to lennon .. martin o neill was just as fiery & passionate and got into a few arguements in his succesfull time at celtic,

[legendz]

Good to see Celtic pick up the win today.
The SFA comment is ridiculous. Celtic players played the game.

[Stuttgart88]

Excellent PR offensive by Rangers and their entourage. They sign the biggest scumbag ever to grace British football who already has history in Glasgow (spitting at a Celtic fan). They have 3 players sent off in a not even remotely controversial manner (other than the context). The reaction in the media and the political establishment is to criticise the Old Firm collectively. What exactly did Celtic do other than be there when Rangers lost the plot? When Celtic lose the plot it's seen as just that.

[geysir]

A compliant media is one reason.
Just look at the BBC leading with the report that the police have received a complaint about racial abuse Lennon was supposed to have directed at Diouf. There was a complete and utter lack of one iota of substantiation to support the claim, either from visual observance or from Diouf himself. Why on earth would the BBC lead with such an article? Not only did they suspend standards of journalism but they chose to pour petrol on the smoldering fires of bigotry by falling for an obvious ploy by Ranger's fans.

[Junior]

Two sides of the same coin. Why, didn't you know?

[Plastic Paddy]

Two sides of the same coin. Why, didn't you know?

There's a lot of ignorance, wilful or otherwise, masquerading as 'balance' in reporting events concerning Celtic and Rangers.

At last week's fixture between the clubs, one team had three players sent off, one of them receiving two red cards, and eight booked. Further, one set of supporters spent ninety minutes singing songs about being "up to [their] necks in Fenian blood". Which club did they represent? Rangers. *Not* Celtic.

Indeed, the neutral reading the press after the game would think the only incident of note was Lennon losing the head, not McCoist's goading nor EHD's running halfway across the pitch to have a pop. But then Lennon represents Celtic, not Rangers.

Prior to the game, one manager and two players have received death threats, including bullets in the post, in the last six months. Which club do they represent? That's right. Celtic. Not Rangers.

Both teams have reached and lost UEFA Cup finals in the last eight years. One set of fans went on the rampage. Which club do they represent? Rangers. *Not* Celtic. The other set of fans won a UEFA Fair Play award for their behaviour before and after the game. Which club do they represent? Yes, Celtic.

Collectively ignorant at best, mendacious dissemblers at worst, the print and broadcast media are legitimising the real problem. And it's *not* Celtic.

:ball: PP

[Plastic Paddy]

Finally someone speaks out regarding the shameful treatment endured by Neil Lennon just for doing his job. http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/football/Andrew-Smith-Scotland-must-ask.6733176.jp

:ball: PP

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good link there, PP.

Unfortunately it's not fashionable to take a more rational view as too many people like to take the uninformed stance, that "they're both to blame".

Almost as farcical as the label, 'Old Firm'.

On the pitch earlier, the team from Govan closed the gap to 2 points earlier, relying on an og. as their winner.

And Celtic's postponement of their SC tie earlier means they now have to re-schedule their game v. Hibs, due on Weds.
So all still very much to play for, after next Sun's Lge. Cup Final.

Am very much expecting the refs issue to reappear either then or in the last SPL game versus the same opposition.

[Gather round]

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/proddyref.gif

[OwlsFan]

What exactly did Celtic do other than be there when Rangers lost the plot? When Celtic lose the plot it's seen as just that.

Their manager got in to a spat with one of the Rangers players (albeit an unsavoury character) and their manager had to be dragged away from the Rangers' manager. Lennon let his club down. I like Lennon but that can't be papered over.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And the relevance of that picture is?

[Junior]

Their manager got in to a spat with one of the Rangers players (albeit an unsavoury character) and their manager had to be dragged away from the Rangers' manager. Lennon let his club down. I like Lennon but that can't be papered over.

For the love of God Owls - These little handbag sessions happen up and down the country week in week out. You're not happy with players 'winding' each other up let alone raising their voices and wagging fingers - God forbid.

The only justification for any of this reporting is down to the fact that Rangers received 3 red cards and 8 bookings on the night. They lost all discipline.

One other interesting stat, there were 30 arrests at the game itself. The number of Celtic fans arrested equated to the same number of Rangers players that received a booking on the night!

[Junior]

Finally someone speaks out regarding the shameful treatment endured by Neil Lennon just for doing his job. http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/football/Andrew-Smith-Scotland-must-ask.6733176.jp

:ball: PP

Just as fans of the Ibrox club, for the first season in many years - appearing to take their lead from the Papal visit - have started giving lusty renditions of their No Pope of Rome ditty.

Though he obviously has some hearing difficulties or has done in recent years at least.......

Fair enough article. It says it all when we need to highlight this type of journalism as being decent when it only says what any rightminded individual would see as very normal and decent.

[old git]

Their manager got in to a spat with one of the Rangers players (albeit an unsavoury character) and their manager had to be dragged away from the Rangers' manager. Lennon let his club down. I like Lennon but that can't be papered over.

jesus is this the first time a manager got involved in a spat with an opposition player and had to be dragged away from the rangers manager what i saw of incident both lennon & mc cost were pulled apart and so called dragged away why dont you make such a big issue about mc coist getting dragged away and letting down his club :mad:

[osarusan]

jesus is this the first time a manager got involved in a spat with an opposition player and had to be dragged away from the rangers manager what i saw of incident both lennon & mc cost were pulled apart and so called dragged away why dont you make such a big issue about mc coist getting dragged away and letting down his club :mad:

Because the argument on this thread is that Celtic did nothing wrong while Rangers 'lost it.' His point is that Lennon clearly lost it too. And while it isn't the first time a manager got in a spat with an opposition player, it's not the first time a team has had three red cards in a game either. If one is worthy of mention (and condemnation), so is the other.

[Junior]

Is it a balanced view to suggest that the evenings events were down to both sides, equally? 'The Old Firm', Tit for Tat, Two sides of the same coin, Ying & Yang, yadda yadda yadda - Quite clearly not.

I am not saying that you are saying that osarusan but that is how it has been portrayed in the media, by Alex Salmond, posters on here.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, like I said up thread, that's down to pure ignorance on their part.

[Gather round]

Is it a balanced view to suggest that the evenings events were down to both sides, equally? 'The Old Firm', Tit for Tat, Two sides of the same coin, Ying & Yang, yadda yadda yadda - Quite clearly not.

I am not saying that you are saying that osarusan but that is how it has been portrayed in the media, by Alex Salmond, posters on here

The issue isn't one evening's events (where, quite clearly Rangers were more ill-disciplined on-field than Celtic). It's how both sets of fans have behaved over decades. They've long been called the 'Old Firm' (ie, mutually dependent to create and encourage rivalry/ tension etc.) because they've been behaving thus for decades. It's hard to avoid the whataboutery- it's basically self-evident to fans of all other Scottish clubs, local residents on matchdays etc.

Who might just be better-informed than the occasional tourist up from London.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except those people who aren't fans suffer from their own misinformed prejudices and have based their position, often from warped media coverage.
And the 'Old Firm' concept is an outdated fallacy at least half-a-century out of date, FFS.

Celtic fans/players aren't saints but they have won awards for good behaviour and charitable works from UEFA & other organizations, a compliment not generally extended to those associated with a certain team from Govan!

[Gather round]

Don't be silly. Winning UEFA awards doesn't mean that there isn't a substantial minority of ********s regularly embarrassing the team, as NI fans know too well.

They're called the Old Firm because they've used their religious/ sectarian rivalry to dominate the game locally, for about a century. Their relationship today ain't that different from the Billy Boys/ Tim Malloys era.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What have Celtic fans got to do with the North especially, except when they riot in the Ardoyne, or being subject to sectarian attacks from the usual uber-Unionists.....

And most Tims/Gers know the meaning of the 'Old Firm', but even the media who use it now are uninformed morons indulging in lazy cliches.
Which in the instances you cite, are more than a century out-of-date!

It's nothing to do with them becoming the two most popular and successful clubs in Scotland.
Both have support from all over Scotland and their respective Diaspora(s) which has allowed them to continue this.

[Gather round]

What have Celtic fans got to do with the North especially

Er, many of them live there? My point was that receipt of UEFA awards and having a minority sectarian following are not incompatible.


And most Tims/Gers know the meaning of the 'Old Firm', but even the media who use it now are uninformed morons indulging in lazy cliches

So does anyone else with a passing interest in football rivalry, or who lives in Scotland and has to put up with their antics.

Just to clarify: 'Old Firm' means that it's existed for a long time, NOT that it stopped existing a long time ago. Clear now?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Er, many of them live there? My point was that receipt of UEFA awards and having a minority sectarian following are not incompatible.

And?


So does anyone else with a passing interest in football rivalry, or who lives in Scotland and has to put up with their antics.

Just to clarify: 'Old Firm' means that it's existed for a long time, NOT that it stopped existing a long time ago. Clear now?
A bit harsh to imply they're all 'uninformed morons', though to be fair, as highlighted here and elsewhere certain aspects of the media like to sensationalize the rivalry regardless of the facts or context.

And the cited definition of the 'Old Firm' is outdated and wrong. So no, not remotely clear, unless relying on the usual cliches....

Try going to a few games at both grounds and find out for yourself!!