SPL Discussion Thread

[rambler14]

Poor Darren O'Dea looks unconsolable! He's crying while everyone else is jumping around.
When Strachan had the team in the huddle he must have been going on about having won it for Tommy Burns because a lot of the players left it crying. The likes of McGeady and Boruc the beast had tears in their eyes. Strachan looks very upset, most of the coaches have been crying since the full time whistle.

[see's it]

what a night celtic are champs,brillant!

[Plastic Paddy]

what a night celtic are champs, brilliant!

Amen to that. :D

:ball: PP

[tetsujin1979]

Nearly wept when I saw the result. Lazarus wouldn't have gotten a look in a few weeks ago, with 2 more games played and 6 points behind.
I've had my doubts about Strachan, but he's done it.

[inchicore_saint]

Great night for the Bhoys.

[old git]

c'mon the celts great finish to win title when they looked dead & buried a couple of weeks back :D:D

[drinkfeckarse]

Great night. Rangers schedule caught up on them no doubt but to win 7 on the bounce deserves immense credit under such pressure. :)

[Closed Account 2]

Great run of results by Celtic when it looked to be all over.

Rangers have seen their season disintegrate in the space of 8 days. Novo is out for them for the cup final at the weekend, I wonder if they'll play their UEFA formation of 8-1-1 and go for penalties.

[OwlsFan]

2008 Season

I saw the Rangers vs Falkirk game. Latter played the better football but Gers sneaked the win. Celtic are also unconvincing (score wise anyway - didn't see the game) but I suppose the usual Old Firm dominance again. Is there any league in the world as predictable as this?

[superfrank]

Is there any league in the world as predictable as this?
England, Portugal, France, Italy, Turkey, Spain, Netherlands, Northern Ireland...

[Bottle of Tonic]

2008 Season

I saw the Rangers vs Falkirk game. Latter played the better football but Gers sneaked the win. Celtic are also unconvincing (score wise anyway - didn't see the game) but I suppose the usual Old Firm dominance again. Is there any league in the world as predictable as this?

Outside of celtic and rangers, the league is anything but predictable.
08/09
celtic
rangers
hearts
motherwell
dundee utd
falkirk
kilmarnock
aberdeen
hamilton
hibs
inverness
st mirren

Thats a bit too predictable though so that won't be it

[Junior]

there was a stat going about there a few seasons ago that showed if you exlcuded the Celtic and Rangers results from the previous 10 seasons there would have been 7 or 8 different champions on those years.

[OwlsFan]

there was a stat going about there a few seasons ago that showed if you exlcuded the Celtic and Rangers results from the previous 10 seasons there would have been 7 or 8 different champions on those years.

So 3rd place is up for grabs :eek: That must really excite all the fans of the other teams.

[Junior]

So 3rd place is up for grabs :eek: That must really excite all the fans of the other teams.

If thats your rationale for excitement its no different than all the EPL clubs (bar Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal) battling it out for 4th spot year after year:eek:

[OwlsFan]

If thats your rationale for excitement its no different than all the EPL clubs (bar Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal) battling it out for 4th spot year after year:eek:

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.

[geysir]

Nobody ever remembers Blackburn.

[Junior]

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.


Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80's.

During the 80s and 90's more often than not Aberdeen,Hearts and even Motherwell on one occasion finished in 2nd spot. Celtic didnt finish in the top 2 from 1989-1995.

Dont get me wrong Im not trying to suggest the SPL is a great competitive league and yes Rangers followed by Celtic have more titles than all the other teams combined but Im just saying the EPL is certainly no different in terms of how many teams are really challenging for the title other than it has twice as many teams that should be challenging and arent. Throwing in a few token league wins for Villa, Leeds and Everton doesnt really change that.

Since the EPL was formed titles are split as follows

Man U 10
Arsenal 3
Chelsea 2
Blackburn 1 (just for you geysir!)
Total 16

Prior to that obviously Liverpool and Everton had periods of domination. Im not sure I can be arsed to see do a titles table for England from year dot!!

[ciaraa]

Not quite true. In Scotland it's been a 2 horse race since the year dot, although Aberdeen had a year or two in the sun I remember a moon or two ago. Many teams have won the English league over the years (I remember Leeds, Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea off the top of my head) but in the current cycle it's Man U and Chelsea on top.

here is some interesting stats on england v scotland all time leagues. makes for pretty grim reading in scotland...93 out of 111 are celtic/rangers!!

Summary 1889-2008 (109 championships)

18 Liverpool
17 Manchester United
13 Arsenal
9 Everton
7 Aston Villa
6 Sunderland
4 Newcastle United, The Wednesday/Sheffield Wednesday
3 Huddersfield Town, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Leeds United,
Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea
2 Preston North End, Portsmouth, Burnley, Tottenham Hotspur
Manchester City, Derby County
1 Sheffield United, West Bromwich Albion, Ipswich Town,
Nottingham Forest

Summary 1891-2008 (111 championships)

51 Rangers
42 Celtic
4 Heart Of Midlothian, Hibernian, Aberdeen
2 Dumbarton
1 Third Lanark, Motherwell, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dundee United

[ciaraa]

also just for comparisons sake, here is the Ireland summary:

Summary 1921-2008

15 Shamrock Rovers

13 Shelbourne

9 Bohemians
Dundalk

7 Cork Athletic [includes United]
St. Patrick's Athletic

6 Waterford

5 Drumcondra

2 Athlone Town
Cork City
Derry City
Limerick
Sligo Rovers
St. James' Gate

1 Cork Celtic
Cork Hibernians
Dolphin
Drogheda United

[OwlsFan]

Nobody ever remembers Blackburn.

Who are you calling a "nobody" :p ?

Ireland - never realised the LoI was so Dublin dominated over the years, particularly since in my days of actively supporting Rovers, Waterford or Cork Hibs used to win the League and Rovers the cups.

Nice to see Wednesday with 4 league wins, last one 70+ years ago I think. Spurs only twice :eek:

Old Firm have won 83% of all titles. Third Lanark - there's a name from the distant past.

[Junior]

Old Firm have won 83% of all titles. Third Lanark - there's a name from the distant past.

Of the 111 scottish championships, 72 of them (65%) have had a non old firm side in the top two - so whilst its total dominance in terms of titles it hasnt quite always been a two horsed race;)

[geysir]

If that's the case Junior, then should my prediction of a Celtic Rangers top 2 finish come to pass you will remark favourably upon my punditry prowess :)

[Junior]

I wll indeed geysir but please dont jump the gun Hamilton Accies look the biz and are pushing for that 2nd CL spot!!;)

[seanfhear]

Celtic were very easy to get through today.Does Gordon Strachan know how to organise a defence.Celtic got lucky at the end of last season.It looks like Walter Smith(previously good at rangers but medicore/poor when he managed in england) has the measure of Gordon in the old firm games.I know Gordon has won three leagues in a row but he was lucky that rangers were poor for most of that time.On the other hand he has done better than Martin o neill in the champions league(okay martin had one very good season in the uefa cup).Gordon you need to tighten up that defence against rangers or we are done for in the league.

[OwlsFan]

I thought it was a poor show on many of the Celtic fans to start leaving the ground in droves after Rangers' 4th goal. Are you only supposed to support a team when it's winning? Fair play to those who hung on and we're in the middle of the song "We're the Celtic supporters..." when they were rewarded with a goal.

I have seen Celtic on the box a couple of times this season and they have been poor on each occasion.

[Plastic Paddy]

Sean - a run of seven straight wins to complete the league season hardly suggests luck. The league is decided over 38 games and the best team won, no question.

OwlsFan - it's always been the way at CP, I'm afraid. Ibrox too. Football fans leaving early is just a part of the matchday "experience". What I find hard to fathom is when fans leave early despite their team winning 4-1 (not that the devil's disciples were doing so yesterday, and who can blame them). It happens at CP often enough. :confused:

In answer to your other point, I can only hope that it's the typical slow start. I think I may be kidding myself though. :(

:ball: PP

[drinkfeckarse]

I thought it was a poor show on many of the Celtic fans to start leaving the ground in droves after Rangers' 4th goal. Are you only supposed to support a team when it's winning? Fair play to those who hung on and we're in the middle of the song "We're the Celtic supporters..." when they were rewarded with a goal.




Why does this rubbish get brought up whenever this happens at a football ground? People pay their money and are entitled to do what they like. What they witnessed yesterday was absolute rubbish. It's no surprise to me that some fans would not want to stick around for the final few minutes to listen to their biggest rivals gloating and singing. :confused:

But I suppose next you'll be telling me that Wednesday supporters would be there through thick and thin if they were 4-1 down at home to United? :rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

Why does this rubbish get brought up whenever this happens at a football ground? People pay their money and are entitled to do what they like. What they witnessed yesterday was absolute rubbish. It's no surprise to me that some fans would not want to stick around for the final few minutes to listen to their biggest rivals gloating and singing. :confused:

But I suppose next you'll be telling me that Wednesday supporters would be there through thick and thin if they were 4-1 down at home to United? :rolleyes:


I don't think it's rubbish. I speak only for myself and not other followers/supporters/event junkies.

I was at a Wednesday game conceding 7 at home to Villa in a game and waiting until the end. I have seen Ireland thumped at home as well and wait until the end to support the team. I never view a game where MY TEAM is playing in terms of going to be entertained and walking out if they're playing badly because I am not getting my monies worth. I go to support my team for better or for worse.

If I was at a game where neither was a team I SUPPORT and it was a poor game, I would probably leave early.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word support or supporter. That's the end of my "rubbish".

[drinkfeckarse]

I was at a Wednesday game conceding 7 at home to Villa in a game and waiting until the end. I have seen Ireland thumped at home as well and wait until the end to support the team. I never view a game where MY TEAM is playing in terms of going to be entertained and walking out if they're playing badly because I am not getting my monies worth. I go to support my team for better or for worse.



Oh my God, have a listen to yourself will you!! Give yourself a pat on the back my friend. Self praise is no praise. :rolleyes: You obviously think you deserve some sort of medal because you've never left a game early in your life. :eek:

I have no problem with people either leaving early or staying until the warm down's are completed for that matter if they so choose. What I can't stand is the sanctimonious pomp that people like you spout because of it, you obviously think you are a better supporter than some because some people let their anger get the better of them and leave early.

[OwlsFan]

When I defend my position it's "sanctimonious pomp". Never been accused of that before.:D:D

Yes, that it my belief. I make no apologies for it. If you think that's sanctimonious, that's your opinion. It's my view of supporting a team through thick and thin (and it's mostly been the latter) and yes, I think it's wrong to walk out and turn your back on your team when it's being beaten, leaving the stadium to the opposition supporters jeering your team, which they were doing in spades. As I said I admired the Celtic fans who stayed to the end and were singing "We're the Celtic supporters..." just before their team scored.

It is something I believe in and have followed so it's not sanctimonious.

[drinkfeckarse]

It is something I believe in and have followed so it's not sanctimonious.


There's nothing wrong at all with your beliefs Owls Fan. It's when you preach about it that it becomes sanctimonious in my eyes.

It's like you're trying to put yourself on a pedestal because you wouldn't dream of leaving a few minutes early when your team is having a bad day. The fact that you wouldn't doesn't make you any better than someone who would in my eyes (assuming the fact that they are regular attendees and not day trippers of course).

[OwlsFan]

I wasn't putting myself on a pedestal. I commented with surprise that many Celtic fans left when their team was being beaten. I never mentioned my own position until I was accused of talking rubbish. I would be hypocritical if on the one hand I was surprised if fans left early when things were going badly and I then did the same myself so I had to outline my position.

[Junior]

As PP says its a common occurence at Celtic Park Win, Lose or Draw.....

However its nothing of note, you only have to watch MOTD to see it happens at every ground, particularly when the home side is getting gubbed!!

Im like you Owls fan - I stay till the full time whistle blows but I sit with friends who have often long gone by that stage - each to their own though.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Why does this rubbish get brought up whenever this happens at a football ground? People pay their money and are entitled to do what they like. What they witnessed yesterday was absolute rubbish. It's no surprise to me that some fans would not want to stick around for the final few minutes to listen to their biggest rivals gloating and singing. :confused:

But I suppose next you'll be telling me that Wednesday supporters would be there through thick and thin if they were 4-1 down at home to United? :rolleyes:

I think the problem is that people who may sing ``Celtic 'til I die``, but aren't bothered to try lift the team when they are actually in need (like for example when they're 4-1 down). It's an interesting argument and one which I'm still undecided on but, as Junior says, each to their own. I will say though that when a team does claw back a big deficit and half the supporters have gone home I'm delighted for the ones who stayed and can't help but laugh thinking of those who bailed out early.

As an Arsenal supporter it does annoy me when I see the side playing on front of a half empty stadium with 10 minutes to when the team are on the verge of completing a great performance.... I can't help but think ``what do they have to do to earn your applause?!``

[Stevo Da Gull]

I see Hibs signed Bamba and Riordan which is great. I'm a bit surprised that Petrie actually got his checkbook out but delighted. Hopefully Derek can get back into his groove. Plenty of Celtic fans think he was never given a fair go at Parkhead and I certainly believe that he has the ability to be successful at either of the top two but am glad he's back home.

Bamba can be a match winner but does like to dive in, potentially a great signing though.

[drinkfeckarse]

Riordan has the talent to do very well and should have been given more chances at Celtic Park, that is the general consensus. He certainly did well more often than not when he did get a chance IMO.

Have to say I'm surprised he's gone back to Hibs though. I thought the Championship would have been his next destination given the fact that Hibs would probably be struggling to pay half of what he was allegedly on at Celtic (£8k p/w). He had plenty of admirers there too.

[Hibs4Ever]

Delighted Deek is back at Hibs. Hopefully he can get back to his form he was in before leaving

[Junior]

Im sure he will come back to haunt Celtic for Hibs this season

[Bottle of Tonic]

On the game - We were well beaten. Celtic have stood still this summer, after only narrowly claiming last seasons flag, while our main rivals have steadily improved, securing a couple of new first teamers and boosting the quality of the squad.
While we did well to outpace the huns on the final straight last season, its now looking like a qualified success after their fixture pile-up, injuries etc. While I feel a little uncomfortable saying it, Tommy Burns death galvanised the squad and was probably a help in getting us over the line.
Smith has the measure of Strachan in these all important games, and questions are being asked yet again over his stewardship. Quite simply the football being played has been going nowhere fast for a long time now. The manager and the team don't appear to know what they are doing.
Rumours of player indiscipline abound also. Personally I reckon he doesn't have the respect of the dressing room.

On leaving early - I left early for the first time EVER on Sunday. As one previous poster put it, i just couldn't stomach being there listening to them celebrating anymore, and another chorus of "the famine's over, why don't you go home". :(

Riordan- is guaranteed to cost Celtic points this season. Bad move from Lawell and co! Riordan I'm sure is delighted to be back, the big man about town again, although he won't be getting into any nightclubs!
Think he got a decent shot at Celtic. Never looked up for it when I saw him play. He wasn't played in the kind of roaming-up front role he likes, which didn't help. He sulked, and his discipline was shocking. Players need to hit the ground running at Celtic , he didn't.

[cheifo]

Mendes looks to be the signing of the Summer in the SPL.Surprised a EPL team didn't sign him.
Strachan has never been popular with Celtic fans despite a highly impressive trophy haul and some great results in the Champions league.
I think midfield might be Celtics problem.Scott Brown doesn't seem to having the impact expected as of yet.
Rangers could miss Cousin though, useful player.

[drinkfeckarse]

Mendes looks to be the signing of the Summer in the SPL.


Agreed, he was exactly what Rangers were needing. Someone who doesn't give the ball away easily but also someone who can link defence to attack in one swoop. They have no one else with that ability.

[old git]

Agreed, he was exactly what Rangers were needing. Someone who doesn't give the ball away easily but also someone who can link defence to attack in one swoop. They have no one else with that ability.

and this is one of the biggest problems celtic have they also need this type of player also :ball:

[Bottle of Tonic]

cheifo - Strachan has a charge sheet as long as, maybe longer, than his list of achievements at the club. And as I suggested in the post above, most of his trophies/achievements can be explained away, or at least their merits debated at length.
What most supporters are not happy with is the product on show on the park. Truth be told its been poor for the three years he's been at the helm. Uninspiring, unconvincing, downright turgid displays against teams with a mere fraction of Celtics wealth and power.
Shaun Maloney was something like his 36th signing. Yet he's never been sure what his best team is.
Players come and go, with most declining in quality after a couple of months with the squad. Hell, even last seasons best midfield partnership - Robson and Hartely - was stumbled upon with Browns suspension.

Old Git - I actually think Celtic have the players to match Rangers. They have better players probably and more of them, but they are not functioning as a team, and the 11 on the park is less than the sum of its parts most days with most of our talent shackled into a stale, slow, predictable system.
I like the man, but don't think he can get the best out of the players he coaches.

[drinkfeckarse]

Spot on Tonic IMO. I agree with all that.

[eirebhoy]

Scott Brown doesn't seem to having the impact expected as of yet.
And it says an awful lot about Celtic this season that he's probably Celtic's player of the month after Naka. He's doing ok but he really needs to get a bit of the Barry Robson and start going mad out there.

Hartley should be dropped for Crosas. If he's anywhere near as good as he looked for Barca against Dundee Utd and for Celtic vs Falkirk he'll make a huge difference. When McGeady-Donati-Brown-Naka were on form the football was excellent. Hopefully Crosas is a Donati who can hack the SPL. He describes himself as a midfield organiser. If he's an organiser as technically gifted as that he could be some player.

[Bottle of Tonic]

eirebhoy - where do you stand on Strachan these days. you were a big supporter and believer up to last season. I haven't noticed many posts from you on KDS in a while. I know the lads on there get very OTT at the slightest mishap but after giving Strachan loads of time and trying to analyse objectively whats been happening on the park, I myself have lost faith in his ability to take the club forward. I don't think you can sack the man(given the trophy count), but I don't think he knows what he's at.

The midfield and centre defence aren't functioning. Will he have the balls to drop big mick and Caldwell for say, Loovens and O'Dea? Will he fire in Crosas and Robson for the ineffective Brown and Hartley? Will he actually set up the team and/or change shape and tactics during a game depending on the opposition and how they play or will he just continue to play the style he believes in irrespective of the other 11 we are facing, be it Man Utd or ICT?
I can't see him making any of these calls. He hasn't done it so far. For example a typical Strachan call if a game isn't going to plan is to take off say, big Jan and throw on Samaras. A straight swap. Doesn't really change a game.

[eirebhoy]

I was saying that if he didn't win the league last season I'd be happy to see him go because the team hasn't improved since he took over. I certainly wouldn't be getting on his back this season. I really want him to be succesful and as harsh as it is, only a big improvement and another league win will have me wishing he stays next season.

A straight swap of Crosas for Hartley could really transform the team. I know we've seen little of Crosas he has to get a chance some time and Hartley really isn't good enough. As soon as he went off against Macedonia Scotland got to grips with the game. He sits too deep and takes too long to release a pass. Brown can do everything Hartley can but a lot better, bar probably tackling. They shouldn't both be in the team.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Great debut for Bamba :D He's still learning :cool:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Worthy of note.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7617518.stm

[drinkfeckarse]

A bit of a fuss is being created over that here in Scotland. Rangers Chief Executive Martin Bain released a statement on their website basically asking the fans to stop singing it not because it was wrong but because they might be arrested!!

He then went on to moan about how it's just Rangers getting picked on and how "other" clubs get away with it.

Childish stuff.