SPL Discussion Thread

[DeLorean]

Oops... You know what happened, I saw they had lost the 1st Leg 1-0 against Raith, I assumed the 2-2 draw the last night was the 2nd Leg of that!

[geysir]

Would they want someone back who thought managing Bolton was a bigger job than Celtic?
When did Lennon ever say that?

[OwlsFan]

When did Lennon ever say that?

Well, he left Celtic of his own volition for Bolton. People seldom leave one job for a job they think is inferior so I think it is reasonable to assume that he thought Bolton was a bigger job, n’est-ce pas?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I don't know about "bigger". He may have considered it a more challenging position though, and that can be an important motivator for some choices.

[DeLorean]

That's it, and presumably to get on the English managerial ladder. I don't even think that OwlsFan really believes that Lennon, of all people, considers Bolton a bigger job than Celtic.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I mean, Lennon's last season in charge of Celtic, they won the league by what, 29 points? And ended up winning the next two editions by wide margins without him. I think it would be very easy to get a wandering eye for other leagues in Old Firm management.

[DeLorean]

Fair play to him for taking on something more challenging, probably too challenging as it turned out with Bolton's situation though.

The Keane to Celtic stuff isn't going away. (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/ronny-deila-backs-star-roy-keane-for-celtic-role-399723.html)

[Charlie Darwin]

Lennon didn't leave Celtic for the Bolton job. He left/was sacked by Celtic due to his relationship with the club higher-ups and five months later was offered Bolton.

[OwlsFan]

I don't know about "bigger". He may have considered it a more challenging position though, and that can be an important motivator for some choices.

Celtic is also a very challenging job. Ronny Deila got the boot because he didn't win enough trophies and wasn't a success in Europe. It's not enough at Celtic to win the league, although with the return of Rangers it might be next season, but the club also needs to win cups and do well in Europe. That in its own way was as challenging as attempting to get Bolton back in the Premiership. So I am not sure about "challenging" being the motivator. Stepping stone to the Premiership yes and thus he regarded is as a bigger job.

Edit: just seen Charlie saying that Lennon was sacked by Celtic. Scratch all my theories !!

[DeLorean]

Celtic is also a very challenging job. Ronny Deila got the boot because he didn't win enough trophies and wasn't a success in Europe. It's not enough at Celtic to win the league, although with the return of Rangers it might be next season, but the club also needs to win cups and do well in Europe. That in its own way was as challenging as attempting to get Bolton back in the Premiership.

Yeah, but he'd done all that at Celtic anyway. Surely a fresh challenge was a bigger one, especially given the Rangers situation.

[DeLorean]

Brendan Rodgers (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11787/10285919/former-liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-the-no-1-target-for-celtic-sky-sources) the hot favourite now.

[osarusan]

I've often wondered how much value EPL clubs place on the time a manager has spent at Celtic (or Rangers, in one of their periods of dominance).

Lennon won the league there twice, but where does that rank in the achievement stakes?

[OwlsFan]

I've often wondered how much value EPL clubs place on the time a manager has spent at Celtic (or Rangers, in one of their periods of dominance).

Lennon won the league there twice, but where does that rank in the achievement stakes?

I suppose if you were Willie Malley they would rank quite high. During his managerial tenure Maley led Celtic to thirty major trophies (16 league championships and 14 Scottish Cups) in forty-three consecutive years as manager!! 43 years as a manager - even Alex Ferguson looks like a novice compared to him :)

[NeverFeltBetter]

I can't imagine it's rated very highly, and you can look at managerial careers post Celtic to see why. Just having a quick look at club records for them in the last 15 years (not counting caretaker Daglish)

John Barnes - Little noted stint with Jamica, then disastrous five month spell with Tranmere, nothing since 2009.
Martin O'Neill - Fairly mixed at club level, won some plaudits with Villa, a cup final and had them riding high in the table, but struggled to achieve anything near the same with Sunderland. Win rate went from 75% with Celtic to 42% with Villa, then 35% with Sunderland.
Gordan Strachan - Didn't last a year at Middlesbrough, then went to Scotland.
Tony Mowbray - Ups and downs with Middlesbrough, close to play-off's one year, bad winless streaks the next. Currently with Coventry in the back-end of the third tier.
Neil Lennon - Fairly disastrous spell with Bolton spent almost entirely around relegation places, that ended in March, Bolton subsequently relegated.

None of them actually won anything after Celtic. I'm not convinced Deila will buck that trend.

[ForzaHoop]

I was told earlier yesterday to lash money on Moyes from a mate who is an insider in Celtic but now i am hearing he isn't even being interviewed

[DeLorean]

I suppose Alex McLeish was hired by Birmingham, a PL club at the time, because of what he achieved at Rangers mainly. He won the League Cup at Birmingham but was also relegated.

[BonnieShels]

I suppose Alex McLeish was hired by Birmingham, a PL club at the time, because of what he achieved at Rangers mainly. He won the League Cup at Birmingham but was also relegated.

I like to think it's what he did at Hibs beforehand was what got him the job. Grangers were just a stop-off on the road to inevitable superstardom!

[geysir]

Neil Lennon - Fairly disastrous spell with Bolton spent almost entirely around relegation places, that ended in March, Bolton subsequently relegated.

None of them actually won anything after Celtic. I'm not convinced Deila will buck that trend.
Lennon had an excellent stint with Bolton in his first season, he turned a firmly relegation bound team right around as they won game after game, it was the managerial feat of the championship last season.
In his second season. (this one) he had no support, he couldn't keep players and couldn't replace them. Bolton were bankrupt..

[OwlsFan]

Absolutely delighted for Hibernian to win the cup after all those years and disappointments. Well done Alan Stubbs and a brace for Stokes and to win it in the last minute.

[SkStu]

114 years of waiting. Great story to go with the Leicester winning the league in England.

See that Rangers released a statement condemning the Hibs fans who invaded the pitch for attacking Rangers players and officials. Anyone think this is rank hypocrisy from a club with Rangers track record in this regard? Anyone else slightly happy to see them get a few slaps? Or am I just small minded and petty? Probably.

[Wolfman]

Hilarious.
http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-60/

[OwlsFan]

Hilarious.
http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-60/

Hibs' statement http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/6525

Whatever happens Hibs have won the cup at the 11th attempt in a Cup Final I think since their last victory. One of football's great unwanted records has ended.

[OwlsFan]

Joey Barton signs for Rangers. That will add a little spice (or Old Firm Spice) to the meetings with Celtic. Pretty good odds on him being sent off first game I'd say.

[TheBoss]

Hilarious.
http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-60/

Sure Rangers fans were not at all involved in it.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fan-who-kicked-young-8034647#kRUDJH7J0sYOJfjy.97

[BonnieShels]

You'd have missed them the last while.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Barton seems to be getting grief from Rangers fans for the crime of being a Celtic fan.

What an absolutely poisonous footballing culture in Scotland.

I don't know why people bother with it.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

They don't have a problem with him beating the living daylights out of a teenager outside McDonalds. They don't have a problem with him battering a teammate in training. They don't have a problem with his stubbing a cigar out in a teammate's eye. They don't have a problem with him trying to physically assault a child and then attacking a teammate who tried to break them up.

But they have a problem with him casually supporting Celtic as a youngster.

My God.

[OwlsFan]

Thousands apparently turned up at Parkhead to welcome Rodgers. Are the existing players capable of playing the ball on the carpet game which the coach favours? Will be interesting to see.

[BonnieShels]

They don't have a problem with him beating the living daylights out of a teenager outside McDonalds. They don't have a problem with him battering a teammate in training. They don't have a problem with his stubbing a cigar out in a teammate's eye. They don't have a problem with him trying to physically assault a child and then attacking a teammate who tried to break them up.

But they have a problem with him casually supporting Celtic as a youngster.

My God.

Rangers fans in hypocritical shocker.

Then again if Mo Johnston can win them over...

[OwlsFan]

Stubbs gone to Rotherham. He won't be winning any cup there that's for sure.

[TheBoss]

Stubbs gone to Rotherham. He won't be winning any cup there that's for sure.

So he fails to get Hibs promoted twice and yet manages to get a English Championship job, I just don't see the logic.

[DeLorean]

The bar was set pretty high by Hearts and Rangers each season for that one automatic spot to be fair, they had no real entitlement to expect to outperform either of those. I suppose they had the playoffs after that but they're always a bit of a lottery.

[TheBoss]

The bar was set pretty high by Hearts and Rangers each season for that one automatic spot to be fair, they had no real entitlement to expect to outperform either of those. I suppose they had the playoffs after that but they're always a bit of a lottery.

But it is the Scottish 2nd level, you expect teams like Hearts & Rangers to do what they did, Hibernian should have been closer regardless. The fact they won the Scottish Cup would be strong evidence that they under performed in the league.

[OwlsFan]

Lennon back in Scotland as Hibs' boss http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36477421

[sadloserkid]

Perhaps this should all be moved to the Scottish Championship thread? :P

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Quite liking Aberdeen's jersey, voted #4 most attractive in world football behind Pumas, Tottenham and Galatasaray.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/991668/aberdeen-away-strip-named-fourth-attractive-world-football/

Tottenham's (a) quite similar to Dundalk (h) jersey.

Perhaps we will see both in Champions League?

[BonnieShels]

That UNAM shirt bis gash. Home tends to be deadly. Spurs is nice. Terrible from Galatasaray.

Aberdeen's is meh.

[OwlsFan]

I see Lennon has managed to get himself a 5 match ban from UEFA for arguing with a linesman over a disallowed goal. He really needs to go to anger management classes. These sort of things happen all the time and if he can't bite his lip (within reason) and get on with it, he shouldn't be in management. The linesman isn't going to change his mind for an offside.

[OwlsFan]

I read in the papers that the English League is considering a 5th division to which the Old Firm may be invited to participate in if the clubs agree.

Apparently the Atlantic League is also back on the agenda for UEFA.

[TheBoss]

So he fails to get Hibs promoted twice and yet manages to get a English Championship job, I just don't see the logic.


But it is the Scottish 2nd level, you expect teams like Hearts & Rangers to do what they did, Hibernian should have been closer regardless. The fact they won the Scottish Cup would be strong evidence that they under performed in the league.

I think I may have been right!
Alan Stubbs sacked as Rotherham manager after 14 games (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11747/10623700/alan-stubbs-sacked-as-rotherham-manager-after-14-games)

[DeLorean]

He should have stayed at Hibs. They could drop as many points as they like this season and probably still win the league, such is the lack of competition.

[OwlsFan]

He should have stayed at Hibs. They could drop as many points as they like this season and probably still win the league, such is the lack of competition.

The Championship is regarded as a stepping stone to the holy grail of the EPL unlike the Scottish 1st Division so he took a chance and alas for him it didn't work out. Pity, as I like him and having successfully fought off cancer I suspect he'll bounce back from this as well.

[DeLorean]

So Celtic won their 100th major trophy yesterday. It got me thinking about how Rangers compare and it turns out they achieved that feat all the way back in 2000 and are now on 115 major trophies (not including their lower tier wins over the past few years). Still, I suppose Celtic have won the European Cup so that easily makes up for the shortfall.




Celtic
Rangers


League Championships
47
54


Scottish Cup
36
33


League Cup
16
27


European Cup
1
-


European Cup Winners Cup
-
1


Total
100
115

[OwlsFan]

Very close all the same. Celtic have closed the gap in the League Championships over the past few seasons. An interesting stat would be how often the league has been won by a non-old firm side (bearing in mind there are over 100 wins between them). The only ones I remember are Aberdeen and Dundee United and that's not today or yesterday.

[DeLorean]

An interesting stat would be how often the league has been won by a non-old firm side

The answer to that appears to be 19, with the most recent being Alex Ferguson's Aberdeen side 31 years ago (1984-85). That was the third season in a row where a team outside of the Old Firm won the Championship, the longest ever sequence!




Aberdeen
4
1954-55, 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85


Hearts
4
1894-95, 1896-97, 1957-58, 1959-60


Hibs
4
1902-03, 1947-48, 1950-51, 1951-52


Dumbarton
2
1890-91, 1891-92


Motherwell
1
1931-32


Kilmarnock
1
1964-65


Dundee
1
1961-62


Dundee Utd
1
1982-83


Third Lanark
1
1903-04


Total
19





Non-Old Firm Titles (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gallery/non-old-firm-titles-5264387)

[OwlsFan]

OMG! Third Lanark. Do you know I remember when they were in existence. How frightening (for me) is that? Only 19 yet they all live (other than Third Lanark) and still hope.

[pineapple stu]

The answer to that appears to be 19, with the most recent being Alex Ferguson's Aberdeen side 31 years ago (1984-85).
Don't forget Hearts should have won the title the following season, but choked on the final day, missing out on goal difference. They were two points clear (two points for a win) and had a goal difference advantage of 4, but lost 2-0 at home while Celtic won 5-0 away.

Celtic were rubbish for much of the next decade in fairness. Rarely finished in the top two up until the mid 90s.

[nigel-harps1954]

Third Lanark is a fascinating story. I remember looking them up before out of curiosity. The old Hampden Park in which they played still stands as a public park with the terraces all overgrown with trees. As far as I know, they were reformed as a junior team in Scotland and play in non-league there.

[OwlsFan]

Don't forget Hearts should have won the title the following season, but choked on the final day, missing out on goal difference. They were two points clear (two points for a win) and had a goal difference advantage of 4, but lost 2-0 at home while Celtic won 5-0 away.

Celtic were rubbish for much of the next decade in fairness. Rarely finished in the top two up until the mid 90s.

Under the late Tommy Burns especially ? It's one of those chants that sticks in my head as the Rangers' fans taunted him mercilessly with "Cheer up Tommy Burns. Oh what can it mean... etc". Don't know why it has stuck but it has. Felt for the man.

[BonnieShels]

Third Lanark is a fascinating story. I remember looking them up before out of curiosity. The old Hampden Park in which they played still stands as a public park with the terraces all overgrown with trees. As far as I know, they were reformed as a junior team in Scotland and play in non-league there.

Here's some pics:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Cathkinpark1.jpg/1280px-Cathkinpark1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Cathkinpark2.jpg/1280px-Cathkinpark2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Cathkinpark3.jpg/1280px-Cathkinpark3.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathkin_Park

---

Love that sort of thing.