View Full Version : LoI in Europe 2018
paul_oshea
03/08/2018, 2:14 PM
Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought :D Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick :D
paul_oshea
03/08/2018, 2:15 PM
It's all ifs and buts at this stage, BUT can anyone who was in the stadium in Larnaca comment about the warm up??
Damien Lynch was co-commentating on Eir and mentioned that the Dundalk lads were tearing around the place in the warm up, whereas the Larnaca lads rarely broke out of a trot. Surely Dundalk didn't overdo the warm-up in the heat and sunshine...
I'm hoping that would be a far too elementary mistake to be made at this level...
In general though the larnaca lads never did that, they were very relaxed without possession and didn't do much pressing. But ya i get what youre saying good question, it cant be that simple though.
Philosophizer
03/08/2018, 2:28 PM
Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought :D Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick :D
i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.
sbgawa
03/08/2018, 2:30 PM
Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.
Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.
Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.
One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.
Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.
Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?
How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With €500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.
sullanefc
03/08/2018, 2:33 PM
As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?
Keep up Pineapple. I've translated my post below to the queens english for you. I hope this helps to clarify that I was not referring to the other "City".
What is really arrogant is when one considers ones club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.
pineapple stu
03/08/2018, 2:42 PM
Well, no - that also doesn't refer to Dundalk.
However, we have had it translated from Corkish, and I guess ye lot are doing well enough with the pigeon English that passes down there. :) So the point is taken.
But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?
How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With €500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.
It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.
Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !
paul_oshea
03/08/2018, 2:57 PM
i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.
It might be but having a wealthy backer doesn't get around the FFP right? Theyd still have to show steady income unless of course its masked as sponsorship.
paul_oshea
03/08/2018, 2:58 PM
It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.
Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !
And when put like that it sounds like a Shels catastrophe waiting to happen, except with less considerate foreign owners.
sullanefc
03/08/2018, 2:59 PM
But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?
They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.
I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole. The fawning of them on here and in the media probably exacerbates it but it's there.
pineapple stu
03/08/2018, 3:01 PM
They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.
I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole.
You are tarring all Dundalk fans with the comments of two - or is it just one? - fan on the internet. That's your doing, and goes beyond the "not my words" excuse.
God knows what I could tar you with if I took a random Cork person on twitter or the ccfc forum as representative of all Cork fans.
dundalkfc10
03/08/2018, 3:05 PM
Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.
Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.
Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.
One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.
Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.
Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?
The only ones who think that are either
A Stupid
B Trools
The only ones who think that are either
A Stupid
B Trools
I don't think Kenny is in trouble at all. But, I do think he has a point that if he didn't win the league this year, it wouldn't be unimaginable that the new owners would want to look around. They're involved for Europe, they've made that clear. Not progressing in Europe and not getting Champions league will not be a happy ending to their first season.
Yossarian
03/08/2018, 3:54 PM
They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.
I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole. The fawning of them on here and in the media probably exacerbates it but it's there.
You quoted one person. But go ahead and generalise anyway.
sullanefc
03/08/2018, 4:14 PM
As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?
Seriously?
WTF like?
(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)
What nonsense are you on about? Arrogant because I (and every other person in Cork) call the club City? It is this way to distinguish between sporting codes.
What is really arrogant is when you consider your club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.
You are tarring all Dundalk fans with the comments of two - or is it just one? - fan on the internet. That's your doing, and goes beyond the "not my words" excuse.
God knows what I could tar you with if I took a random Cork person on twitter or the ccfc forum as representative of all Cork fans.
You quoted one person. But go ahead and generalise anyway.
Whatever about louth but I would have expected a better reading ability from a ucd graduate Pineapple. Where have I said ALL dundalk fans???
pineapple stu
03/08/2018, 4:38 PM
Ah stop. You started by talking about "dalk" fans in general. It was a generalisation.
Anyways, now I've gotten dragged into this. My apologies, non-Dundalk/Cork fans
EatYerGreens
03/08/2018, 5:03 PM
Termonfeckin is solid Drogs territory.You must mean Hackballs Cross?
Is Hackballs Cross a footballing euphemism - a bit like a Hospital Pass ?
sullanefc
03/08/2018, 5:04 PM
You're being silly now and I'm done with this argument. Go back and read my posts.
Back on topic: Here's hoping for a positive (Cork) City result against ("a clearly weaker than last year") Rosenberg next week.
El-Pietro
03/08/2018, 10:44 PM
Dundalk fans (and I know there's a least one other club who have been to Rosenborg) any tips for Trondheim? We have the Friday free and I always try and get one big activity in so my trip isn't relying on the football. It doesn't look like a Fjord tour is possible.
CorribsideSteve
04/08/2018, 12:44 AM
Cue Dundalk fans telling you to go to Hell, Norway :p
Charlie Darwin
04/08/2018, 2:42 AM
Termonfeckin is solid Drogs territory.You must mean Hackballs Cross?
Big test now for Kenny. Dundalk still good enough to win the title and the associated Euro pay out jackpot if he doesn't panic , still far and away the best of a mediocre lot.
It strikes me that the common factor in the LoI 's greatest performances in Europe in the last ten years is Stephen O'Donnell ,and he was badly missed last night.The fact that we haven't seen a centre mid with that calmness, on the ball skill, ability to dictate the pace of the game and tough enough to scare European opposition, since him, says all you need to know on what direction the league has gone...And to think Fenlon let him go in his prime!!
O'Donnell wasn't exactly a key player when Rovers made the group stages, despite scoring the famous penalty in Belgrade (as a sub). He's become an absolutely key player in Dundalk's success since though, and he's been one of the players who's raised the standard to aspire to.
And it was Croly who let O'Donnell leave (or he just wanted to leave, dunno which).
El-Pietro
04/08/2018, 3:48 PM
Rosenborg - Cork City in the tougher pot in the draw for the playoff round on Monday.
Should City progress we will play the losers of the bolded pairs or the winners of the non bolded. The number in brackets is the coefficient rank of the expected team to progress, i.e. the losers of the bolded ties and winners of the non bolded ones.
POT 1 - CHAMPIONS P.
Salzburg (AUT) - Shkëndija (MKD) ( 5 )
FK Crvena zvezda (SRB) / FC Spartak Trna ( 6 )
Astana (KAZ) - Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) ( 2 )
Legia (POL) - Dudelange (LUX) ( 3 )
Alashkert (ARM) - CFR Cluj (ROU) ( 9 )
Olimpija Ljubljana (SVN) - HJK (FIN) ( 7 )
Cork (IRL) - Rosenborg (NOR) ( 6 )
H. Beer-Sheva (ISR) - APOEL (CYP) ( 2 )
POT 2 - CHAMPIONS P.
Malmö (SWE) - Vidi (HUN) ( 4 )
Celtic (SCO) - AEK (GRE) ( 3 )
Qarabag (AZE) - BATE (BLR) ( 1 )
Ludogorets (BUL) - Zrinjski (BIH) ( 1 )
Sheriff (MDA) - Valur (ISL) ( 4 )
Spartaks Jurmala (LVA) - Suduva (LTU) ( 10 )
TNS (WAL) - Midtjylland (then) ( 5 )
Torpedo Kutaisi (GEO) - Kukës (ALB) ( 8 )
DFCForever
04/08/2018, 10:59 PM
Dundalk fans (and I know there's a least one other club who have been to Rosenborg) any tips for Trondheim? We have the Friday free and I always try and get one big activity in so my trip isn't relying on the football. It doesn't look like a Fjord tour is possible.
Trondheim is a lovely town, I too had a free day after our game last year and spent it galavanting around the place. There are some beautiful restaurants beside the canal. If, like me, you're into your music there's a nice record store which doubles as a café called All Good Clean Records. There's also a museum called Rockheim which delves into the history of Norwegian music. One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.
Philosophizer
05/08/2018, 9:26 AM
One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.
Well it is Norway after all. The country with probably the highest quality of life in the world.
Expect to see a lot of Teslas.
El-Pietro
05/08/2018, 9:33 AM
Trondheim is a lovely town, I too had a free day after our game last year and spent it galavanting around the place. There are some beautiful restaurants beside the canal. If, like me, you're into your music there's a nice record store which doubles as a café called All Good Clean Records. There's also a museum called Rockheim which delves into the history of Norwegian music. One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.
Cheers. I'll look into that. I was hoping for more of one big day long activity but from everything I've read it's a really beautiful town to just walk around. Hopefully we win and get at least one more trip somewhere interesting.
DFCForever
05/08/2018, 11:16 AM
Cheers. I'll look into that. I was hoping for more of one big day long activity but from everything I've read it's a really beautiful town to just walk around. Hopefully we win and get at least one more trip somewhere interesting.
Enjoy the trip bud :). I have a feeling you're in for a pasting but hopefully I'm wrong about that.
osarusan
05/08/2018, 11:41 AM
No dundalk fan pulled him up on it.
Tbh I think that's a pretty weak argument to make.
Are you, as a Cork fan, somehow liable for criticism for the nonsense another Cork fan might post, if you don't pull them up on it?
Tbh I think that's a pretty weak argument to make.
Are you, as a Cork fan, somehow liable for criticism for the nonsense another Cork fan might post, if you don't pull them up on it?
If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.
sullanefc
05/08/2018, 5:19 PM
If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.
Whaddya mean the sky is blue? Ridiculous. JC out!!!!
Ezeikial
05/08/2018, 5:23 PM
If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.
This could get interesting ...........
(or maybe just a tedious debate about levels of ridiculous)
This could get interesting ...........
(or maybe just a tedious debate about levels of ridiculous)
There's a lot of ridiculous stuff gets posted on our forum, don't get me wrong! But there's pretty much always someone else calling it ridiculous, which at least makes it obvious it's not widely accepted! It's far from only one dundalk fan that holds the opinion hat ye're champagne football is the man city to our Stoke....
osarusan
05/08/2018, 7:54 PM
If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.
I wouldn't agree with that at all to be honest. I don't think there is much logic to assuming somebody agrees with an opinion simply because they didn't publicly pull the poster up on it.
I have seen Limerick fans post their share of rubbish on here over the years, stuff I would completely disagree with, but just wouldn't be bothered to respond to with a post.
Equally, I am pretty sure that if I went looking for it, I could find an example of a Cork fan on here that had posted something utterly daft, and which you had failed to take issue with.
Edit: anyway, miles off topic.
DFCForever
05/08/2018, 9:47 PM
There's a lot of ridiculous stuff gets posted on our forum, don't get me wrong! But there's pretty much always someone else calling it ridiculous
I've seen plenty of ridiculousness on that forum that isn't called out at all, mostly when it comes to us. They've clinically dissected everything from a poster designed by children to a fan's banner in Tallinn, to Mike Treacy's tweets. They also spent Thursday night salivating over our defeat. All of that showcases their disquieting obsession with Dundalk FC. At no point have I seen anyone on that forum question any of that though.
Real ale Madrid
06/08/2018, 8:43 AM
All of that showcases their disquieting obsession with Dundalk FC.
Says the Dundalk fan on the Cork City Forum. Disquieting.
DFCForever
06/08/2018, 10:31 AM
Says the Dundalk fan on the Cork City Forum. Disquieting.
Plenty of Cork fans find their way onto Orielweb from time to time, and I have no issue with that, provided it isn't trolling.
White Horse
06/08/2018, 12:56 PM
Not a bad draw for Cork. Beat Rosenborg, and then likely to play KF Shkendija (Macedonia) in the play off.
Nothing easy, but not impossible either.
Ezeikial
06/08/2018, 1:27 PM
Not a bad draw for Cork. Beat Rosenborg, and then likely to play KF Shkendija (Macedonia) in the play off.
Nothing easy, but not impossible either.
That's a very attractive draw - it's almost certain to be the Macedonians as the loser of Salzburg and Shkendija’s Champions League qualifier.who drop from the Champions League into the Europa League play off
El-Pietro
06/08/2018, 1:37 PM
Not a bad draw for Cork. Beat Rosenborg, and then likely to play KF Shkendija (Macedonia) in the play off.
Nothing easy, but not impossible either.
Its a tantalising reward on offer should we beat Rosenborg. Also definitely the most difficult place to get to since we have been back in Europe.
paul_oshea
06/08/2018, 1:42 PM
They're not going to find an easier route through to the group stages again.
Philosophizer
06/08/2018, 2:47 PM
They're not going to find an easier route through to the group stages again.
True. Just goes to show what can happen in Europe if the draw goes your way. A bye, and almost certainly Shkendija await in the playoffs for Cork, both in the same year!
Come on Cork!
geysir
06/08/2018, 9:00 PM
Well it is Norway after all. The country with probably the highest quality of life in the world.
Expect to see a lot of Teslas.
There's an irony there, made me smile anyway.
geysir
06/08/2018, 9:08 PM
Is Hackballs Cross a footballing euphemism - a bit like a Hospital Pass ?
It's Hackballscross, a place on the map on the road between Dundalk and Castleblaney. You know your there by the whiff of diesel in the air (ie if the breeze is a northerly).
paul_oshea
07/08/2018, 1:27 PM
Is the game, rte island of ireland or world? Doesn't say on here -> https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0803/982950-rte-to-screen-both-legs-of-cork-citys-europa-showdown/
legendz
07/08/2018, 5:37 PM
Is the Champions Route to the Europa League a good idea? I thought more league champions might negotiate their way to the group stage in an open draw.
Is the Champions Route to the Europa League a good idea? I thought more league champions might negotiate their way to the group stage in an open draw.
We'll never see an open draw again. Europe is set up for the top leagues. Smaller leagues are thrown the scraps and some cash to keep them quiet.
legendz
07/08/2018, 8:01 PM
We'll never see an open draw again. Europe is set up for the top leagues. Smaller leagues are thrown the scraps and some cash to keep them quiet.I mean an open draw in the context of scrapping the champions route to the Europa League. Cork could be playing Dundalk's conquerors in this round for example.
sidewayspasser
07/08/2018, 8:26 PM
Cork could be playing Dundalk's conquerors in this round for example.
Probably not, because both would be unseeded in this round. Instead, we could face one of Sevilla, Leipzig, Bordeaux, Besiktas,...
I fail to see how this could possibly make things easier.
Is the game, rte island of ireland or world? Doesn't say on here -> https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0803/982950-rte-to-screen-both-legs-of-cork-citys-europa-showdown/
Occasionally they've had games 'Worldwide only' .....
I mean an open draw in the context of scrapping the champions route to the Europa League. Cork could be playing Dundalk's conquerors in this round for example.
Definitely not. The seeding would kill us. The champions path format gives a better chance.
DFCForever
07/08/2018, 10:42 PM
Occasionally they've had games 'Worldwide only' .....
That's a shame since I live on Mars
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