LoI in Europe 2018 [Archive] - Page 24

El-Pietro

09/08/2018, 9:22 PM

So assuming Cork don't turn this around in the away leg, that's 3 European wins out of 8 for Caulfield. Linfield, Levadia and Hacken.

We've seen - was it one of the Polish clubs? - sack the manager for European failure, aware of how important European money is.

Is it time for Cork to look beyond Caulfield, league form notwithstanding?
Ah go jump off a bridge. Our points per game record this year is our best ever. We're on course to match Bohemians 85 points from their "invincible" 2008 season. Over the past 5 years we have been on our best ever run in the league and also in Europe. We're most likely seeded in the EL first round next year unless we are very unlucky or we win the league. We have never been seeded in Europe in our 34 years of history. Hes been in charge for five seasons. We have finished in the top 2 in each of the last five seasons and we will finish in the top 2 again this year. He has won two FAI cups (out of the four we have win in our history) and one league (out of the three we have won in our history).

We lost tonight to a better team. Better teams often beat less good teams. Which teams that knocked us out (aside from KR) do you think we should have beaten? Genk? Larnaca? Legia? Rosenborg (we're not even out yet)?

If we sacked him, who would come in and do a better job than him? Any change would be a gamble. I can't see a reason to risk that when we have a brilliant manager who has us in Europe every year. We don't lose games to teams we shouldn't lose to. We;ll be seeded next year or the year after, and we'll continue to progress in Europe and if we win the league again this year or any year down the road we'll have another go and maybe we'll get a kind draw and then who knows.

Briuk

09/08/2018, 9:27 PM

McNulty once again was a liability in Europe. Cork should sort this out this summer.
The way Cork played last ten minutes was awful too, they totally lost it, they didn't deserve to be 0-2 down but when they started those totally hopeless crosses they didn't do themselves justice.

bennocelt

09/08/2018, 9:30 PM

Ah go jump off a bridge. Our points per game record this year is our best ever. We're on course to match Bohemians 85 points from their "invincible" 2008 season. Over the past 5 years we have been on our best ever run in the league and also in Europe. We're most likely seeded in the EL first round next year unless we are very unlucky or we win the league. We have never been seeded in Europe in our 34 years of history. Hes been in charge for five seasons. We have finished in the top 2 in each of the last five seasons and we will finish in the top 2 again this year. He has won two FAI cups (out of the four we have win in our history) and one league (out of the three we have won in our history).

We lost tonight to a better team. Better teams often beat less good teams. Which teams that knocked us out (aside from KR) do you think we should have beaten? Genk? Larnaca? Legia? Rosenborg (we're not even out yet)?

If we sacked him, who would come in and do a better job than him? Any change would be a gamble. I can't see a reason to risk that when we have a brilliant manager who has us in Europe every year. We don't lose games to teams we shouldn't lose to. We;ll be seeded next year or the year after, and we'll continue to progress in Europe and if we win the league again this year or any year down the road we'll have another go and maybe we'll get a kind draw and then who knows.

All great on paper, but the way Cork play is dull and very limited. You cant be happy with your European misadventure, surely? Beating better seeded teams, dont know, but at least give them a competitive game ffs.

pineapple stu

09/08/2018, 9:38 PM

El-Pietro

09/08/2018, 9:48 PM

I think this is it.

The league record is very good of course - but the LoI is a poor league. A club the size of Cork should be top two (given Dundalk have Euro millions behind them). And he has them top two; fair dues.

But Cork should be targetting a Euro breakthrough, which could transform the club, but it seems further away than ever.

Which of the teams should he have beaten? Well, to lose all three games this season without scoring a goal is very disappointing. You can say Rosenborg and Legia are big clubs, but look who they've lost to this year - Trnava, Dudelange, Valur. Valur were 30 seconds away from knocking Rosenborg out, and then lost in Andorra the following week. But Cork didn't really put up a challenge in either tie (and yes, I could end up eating my words when they win 4-1 away from home next week). You could say they deserved a goal tonight, but then you'd have to argue Rosenborg deserved a third. I was surprised at the number of basic errors - McNulty for the first, the pass straight to Bendtner in the second half, poor touches, passes into touch, etc. They created a couple of decent chances, but otherwise they weren't at the races.

Same story against Larnaka last year; yeah, decent side, but Cork were nowhere really, and lost home and away without scoring.

I'm sure there's plenty of managers who could have Cork in Europe every year with the resources they have. Surely there's one who could push them along in Europe too?

You are talking out your arse. Caulfield took us from absolutely nowhere with no budget to one of the most dominant domestic teams in recent history. If we have a big budget now, its because he has earned it. Our crowds and sponsors and european money are almost entirely because of his work.

If you rank our seasons by points per game he has five of the first six with the other one being the year we won the first division. If you look at it by goals per game he has most of the top 5 as well. We play very good football, we win most of our games. Maybe we could do more in Europe but there is no evidence that anyone else could achieve what he has done domestically.

I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe. No one asks for more from the other teams, but Cualfields achievements are constantly question and other clubs get a pass.

pineapple stu

09/08/2018, 9:53 PM

Caulfield took us to one of the most dominant domestic teams in recent history. I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.
Wait till Ezeikial reads this. :)

On the rest of your post - points per league game isn't relevant here. What he's achieved domestically isn't even all that relevant. You're putting domestic achievements over European ones, and I'm saying the priority has to be the other way around. If he can't achieve in Europe and unlock the millions that go with it, and is really nowhere closer to doing so after four campaigns, then the question has to be asked if there's someone better. And let's be honest, if the question is "Is there someone better than what's in the LoI?", the answer is probably yes. But sentimentality over what he has achieved or what sponsorship he has generated won't take the club forward.

paul_oshea

09/08/2018, 9:56 PM

Its all huff and puff with cork and not much else. They're miles off most irish sides in europe. They can't keeping being excused for switch offs.

paul_oshea

09/08/2018, 9:57 PM

Cork could play a full season in Europe and not score.

El-Pietro

09/08/2018, 10:00 PM

Wait till Ezeikial reads this. :)

On the rest of your post - points per league game isn't relevant here. What he's achieved domestically isn't even all that relevant. You're putting domestic achievements over European ones, and I'm saying the priority has to be the other way around. If he can't achieve in Europe and unlock the millions that go with it, and is really nowhere closer to doing so after four campaigns, then the question has to be asked if there's someone better. And let's be honest, if the question is "Is there someone better than what's in the LoI?", the answer is probably yes. But sentimentality over what he has achieved or what sponsorship he has generated won't take the club forward.
But he has taken us forward, year after year after year. Progression is rarely linear and yet we are constantly moving forward. Maybe we haven't made the breakthrough in Europe but we have in every other aspect. And in Europe we are at least holding our own. We haven't been seeded in any season and yet we've won three ties. Maybe we got lucky in those draws but we won them. We've won as many ties as any other Irish team in the last two years and the last three years.

El-Pietro

09/08/2018, 10:01 PM

Its all huff and puff with cork and not much else. They're miles off most irish sides in europe. They can't keeping being excused for switch offs.
Which sides are we miles off? Dundalk, Rovers and Derry all got knocked out this year. Dundalk did beat Levadia but we didn't get any credit for beating them last year. What about last season? We were the only Irish team to progress through a round last year. WHich Irish sides are we miles off? Or is this another bull**** "style" argument?

White Horse

09/08/2018, 10:02 PM

No one asks for more from the other teams, but Cualfields achievements are constantly question and other clubs get a pass.

I'm not sure about that. Questions are being asked about all the LOI teams in Europe this year.

Ezeikial

09/08/2018, 10:13 PM

I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.

El-Pietro

09/08/2018, 10:15 PM

I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.
You were very good in 2016. Greatest ever Irish European performance. Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

Real ale Madrid

09/08/2018, 10:15 PM

I'm not sure about that. Questions are being asked about all the LOI teams in Europe this year.

People are looking for Caulfield to get the sack based on losing to teams with playing budgets 10 to 15 times higher than ourselves.

Tonight was sh1te - but lets get real here.

Real ale Madrid

09/08/2018, 10:16 PM

I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.

As deluded as Total football as total football gets.

Ezeikial

09/08/2018, 10:18 PM

You were very good in 2016. Greatest ever Irish European performance. Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

So you're not on a wind up?

I'll have a rosary said for you

sbgawa

09/08/2018, 10:19 PM

Cork are the current league and cup holders and are currently top of the league . If Caulfield should be sacked then Kenny has to go too. Can't dine out on 2016 for ever. Very poor in Europe this year....Has to go ;) .........cobh ahem

TonyD

09/08/2018, 10:39 PM

Both Cork and Dundalk were very poor last week and tonight to be fair. But they are way ahead of everyone else in the league at the moment. Talk of sacking managers for not making a European breakthrough is a bit out there, isn't it ? no real reason to think that other managers could do better. (I realise that was a joke about Kenny going btw, but I have heard it hinted at elsewhere after last week.)

The annoying thing is that both teams conceded very poor goals, but that's an age old problem for Irish teams. Dundalk do seem to have regressed from their great run in 2016.

CorribsideSteve

09/08/2018, 10:48 PM

Ezeikial

10/08/2018, 6:12 AM

As deluded as Total football as total football gets.

This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football, but certainly not in Europe.

Maybe you are in agreement with El Pietro - "I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe"

If so I'll include you in that rosary for the deluded

Ezeikial

10/08/2018, 6:17 AM

Majo clearouts are needed at both clubs, key players at both clubs that are not at the level needed for next stage in Europe. I doubt if FORAS would even have the money to pay off one manager while trying to financially attract another one, one that's from outside the League. That 4-0 thrashing for Dundalk had to be Kenny's lowest moment as manager. A sheer cliff fall in terms of the emotions of 2 years previous. Will be interesting to see how he does in next year's Euro ties.

This is the stark reality and must be clear from this years european performances - neither Cork nor Dundalk are currently good enough for the next stage.

Recognising that and then setting about changing it is the key task.

I suspect Kenny and the Dundalk board have both the ability to see that and the resources to try to change it.

pineapple stu

10/08/2018, 6:31 AM

Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.
Really?

Cork's record this year - played 3, lost 3, scored 0, conceded 6.

Derry, Rovers and Dundalk all won away from home this year - surely that's outperforming ye?

Rovers took a Swedish side to extra time when unseeded. Dinamo Minsk's three home European results this season have been Minsk 1-2 Derry, Minsk 4-1 Dunajska Streda, Minsk 4-0 Zenit St Petersburg. Dundalk obviously won home and away against Levadia Tallinn, albeit while seeded.

I'd argue all three of those results are better than losing each game, without scoring, against teams who have lost to Valur, Dudelange and Trnava in Europe this season.

I don't think it's true either than the other European teams are getting a free pass in Europe this year. Rovers and Derry did about as well as could be expected. Dundalk came in for a fair amount of criticism for the hammering by Larnaka, but Kenny has at least has credits from 2016.

El-Pietro

10/08/2018, 8:17 AM

And all three got knocked out so it doesn't matter how plucky they were in defeat.

Mr A

10/08/2018, 8:27 AM

This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football,

They won the double FFS! They have been top two consistently over a period of years, something the club has never done previously, certainly in anything resembling a sustainable manner. If that is "working to an extent" I don't think you're in much of a position to accuse anyone of being on a wind up or being deluded.

ArFella

10/08/2018, 9:00 AM

Bad year for the league given what we have all achieved in recent times (Unless Cork perform a miracle in Norway). Bad draws, yes. Bad performances, yes. Embarrassing exits, no. Every LoI team went out to technically superior opposition that would have expected to beat us. Dundalk comfortably won a tie they should have won and were comfortably beaten by superior opposition, Shams & Derry both lost with good away performances and Cork look set to lose 2 difficult ties to nil.

Talk of any manager getting sacked after going out of Europe to superior sides is nonsense. For the most part it's because of those manager that these sides are in Europe, we all know where Dundalk would be without Kenny and as much as I dislike Caulfield I'm not sure there's another LoI manager (bar SK) that would have had the same domestic success with Cork (A side not previously renowned for it's consistency).

The expectations of the league have been raised in terms of European performances, which is a good thing, but we must not forget how much luck is involved with European football, Dundalk snuck through on away goals against FH in the CL 1st round in 2016, without a slice of luck we'd have been out at the first hurdle.

The league is on a steady upturn (longer contracts, outside investment, marquee signings), which at least seems to be being done on a more realistic basis than the last time when it all went tits up, but it isn't going to mean instant success in Europe every single year but we are getting there.

While it's almost all over for this year at least this time we have a real title race on our hands, and I look forward to watching it's exciting conclusion!

oriel

10/08/2018, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post

I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

I read this last night and I was amazed at the comment.

Its an incredible statement to make given Cork have yet to even score in Europe let alone get a result. Pineapple S has provided various examples of better performances, and before I`m accused of wearing my DFC hat, I�d rate Derry and Rovers away results over ours, they might not have gone through, but they were better teams than Tallinn.

JC might have won the double and another FAI Cup, but his coaching style does not seem to be suited to Europe, and this has been clearly shown in the 3 games so far this year. Poor deployments and worse selections are examples, this was shown up in the first goal away to Legia, McCormack sitting far too deep, and the guy who crossed was almost walking at one stage, not a single Cork player near him. Cummins was ineffective last night, seems to work only on the wings, but that was Sheppard's area, and on selections, why on earth would he not start the exciting talent that is Sadlier? Morrissey too, but I think he was coming back from injury. Morrissey at least started to pass it properly in the middle when he came on. Incidentally I would consider both first subs for Cork as their best players, and in the case for Sadlier, its not like McEleney with Dundalk where he is not yet fully fit, so no reason he couldn�t have started. Cork did have a go for the first 20, and I will admit they were unlucky to be 1-0 down, but again back to the attacking options, a better coach would have set them up offensively to have had a better chance to score, as opposed to the rush and long ball play.

To balance my view on last night, other posters including Ezeikial have mentioned (and quite rightly) Dundalk�s dreadful display away to Larnaca, I think I said at the time it was bordering on the disgrace, so bad was the first half performance and the goals conceded. It was a once off though, and one game where we lost by more than one goal in 4-5 years in Europe, however I am not for one minute ignoring our own limitations. My own view is, I think we need the MF area completely freshened up with at least two quality new players to come in for next season in that area, if we are to have a better chance in Europe. We also need better cover for Gannon at right full, Hoare can cover domestically, but he was out of his depth away to Larnaca.

Overall a disappointing season for Irish clubs, Cork are not out yet, but I would say its looking grim.

Real ale Madrid

10/08/2018, 10:02 AM

This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football, but certainly not in Europe.

Maybe you are in agreement with El Pietro - "I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe"

If so I'll include you in that rosary for the deluded

We haven't been negative in Europe this year. We don't have players with the technical ability that Dundalk have for sure - maybe that is down to the manager but this negative nonsense is just that - nonsense. I wouldn't go as far as El-P with the performance thing - but we did as well against the teams we faced as anyone else would have.

I'd argue all three of those results are better than losing each game, without scoring, against teams who have lost to Valur, Dudelange and Trnava in Europe this season.

Not sure the point you make here. Valur are still in with a good shout of making rd4 - they look a decent side, since when do Irish clubs look down on a team like this. Dudelange won but that was a one off result, 10 men etc and Legia will still get through that tie. Trnava are an excellent side - have pace and quality that a LOI team can only dream of.

Dundalk and ourselves have been shown up over the past few weeks but I wouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Long term progression is still evident. To win any of these ties you have to punch above your weight - and its hard to consistently do that. Dundalk have had more success than us in recent years in doing it - but with the likes of Towell, Horgan & Maguire et al now moving on there was always going to be a re-adjustment. It is what it is.

paul_oshea

10/08/2018, 10:07 AM

Which sides are we miles off? Dundalk, Rovers and Derry all got knocked out this year. Dundalk did beat Levadia but we didn't get any credit for beating them last year. What about last season? We were the only Irish team to progress through a round last year. WHich Irish sides are we miles off? Or is this another bull**** "style" argument?

Stu got in ahead of me with the other LOI teams this season. Its been what 5/6 games in Europe or will be without having scored. You can easily argue they've gotten worse over the last 2 years in Europe. Making same silly mistakes as 10 or 15 years ago of Loi teams. And never look like scoring either.

El-Pietro

10/08/2018, 10:10 AM

Stu got in ahead of me with the other LOI teams this season. Its been what 5/6 games in Europe or will be without having scored. You can easily argue they've gotten worse over the last 2 years in Europe. Making same silly mistakes as 10 or 15 years ago of Loi teams. And never look like scoring either.
And go back two games and you see we scored six goals. We have struggled to score against teams who are better than us. We are finding the limit of our ability. That is perfectly normal. Certainly not reason to call for the managers head.

We beat teams worse than us, we struggle against teams better than us. Who doesn't?

passinginterest

10/08/2018, 10:21 AM

Some interesting debate here. I think Cork tried to change the way they played last night, it was some of the more open, attacking, football I've seen them play, but it backfired and they conceded sloppy goals. They have a few flaws in the team that are exposed at this level, and particularly when trying to play a more open game. For all the hard work of McCormack in front of the back four he lacks quality on the ball, Brian Kerr was giving him a hard time on commentary for his distribution and it wasn't unfair. They also lacked a cutting edge up front, with lots of hard work from Cummins but little threat in front of goal. Caufield's style of play reminds me of Michael O'Neill's Rovers side to a degree. They also usually set up very conservatively in the league and in Europe, if there was one criticism O'Neill got it was that his team was fairly boring to watch, but what he had was a goal poacher in Twigg and a little more quality in midfield. Cork may have been better sticking with a more conservative and direct style against Rosenborg and taking the criticism that likely would have come had it been a dull 0-0 or a 0-1 loss, but they may have given themselves more hope in the tie.
Both Dundalk and Cork are in a strange position of being miles ahead of the rest of the league, but also having lost some quality compared to previous iterations. There's some very young players involved in both defenses, and Dundalk's was particularly badly exposed at times. With the experience gained and a couple of astute signings, both sides could still make another big breakthrough in the next season or two. You could argue that there's a 3 year cycle involved in building most teams and Cork and Dundalk are both in a second or third rebuilding phase.
Hard to see any logic in changing either manager at the moment. But, with the successes they've had, a drop from the top 2 and another disappointing season in Europe next year would probably see them gone.

pineapple stu

10/08/2018, 10:27 AM

And all three got knocked out so it doesn't matter how plucky they were in defeat.
I think that's too simplistic. From a football point of view, you're right of course. From a business point of view, the question is where are the clubs going. Cork's performances are worse in that regard because while Rovers and Derry were one goal away from decent wins with part-time (I think?) squads, Cork can't even get a goal, let alone a draw, with a full-time team.

Not sure the point you make here. Valur are still in with a good shout of making rd4 - they look a decent side, since when do Irish clubs look down on a team like this. Dudelange won but that was a one off result, 10 men etc and Legia will still get through that tie. Trnava are an excellent side - have pace and quality that a LOI team can only dream of.
I saw Valur in Andorra two weeks ago and they were appalling. Now, it could have been a one-off, but they were really, really abject, and Santa Coloma, who had only two wins in 31 European matches prior to that, fully deserved to beat them. That says a lot.

Trnava are decent, but hardly great. They're Slovakian champions (a good achievement), but they've never made a group stage before, so the comparison with Cork should hardly be that distinct as to write off their result.

Would Dudelange have won against 11 men? Probably not, but a Legia fan I know was watching the game and said that Legia were a shambles of a club at present who'd wasted their CL money on stupid transfers, and that this was showing on the pitch. So they might well have held on for a draw.

I just think there's a lot of chances there for Cork to nab a goal, a draw, a decent performance - and they've not done it. Being happy winning the league over making progress in Europe is the same mentality holding the NI clubs back.

I'm not saying Caulfield should be sacked on the spot here - but I do think the money in Europe is too serious to ignore now, and I do think Cork should be on a general lookout for someone better suited for European progress.

Real ale Madrid

10/08/2018, 11:24 AM

. Being happy winning the league over making progress in Europe is the same mentality holding the NI clubs back.

I hate this crap - No one here is happy with our European performances. I was absolutely crestfallen at half time last night, gutted. But I'm not sure we are under-achieving that much either. The manager will have to improve the team and maybe his tactical nous but at the end of the day no matter what you do tactically you have to defend better than we did last night.

I'm not saying Caulfield should be sacked on the spot here - but I do think the money in Europe is too serious to ignore now, and I do think Cork should be on a general lookout for someone better suited for European progress.

I think that is mad - Caulfield is clearly a top manager and individual errors will always cost us in Europe. It would be a massive risk to bring in someone else. Caulfield is building something special imo. Consistently getting into Europe brings better opportunities. I'll keep the faith for a while yet.

brendy_�ire

10/08/2018, 11:28 AM

I Being happy winning the league over making progress in Europe is the same mentality holding the NI clubs back.

I'm not saying Caulfield should be sacked on the spot here - but I do think the money in Europe is too serious to ignore now, and I do think Cork should be on a general lookout for someone better suited for European progress.

Made me think of the IL as well.
Cork and Dundalk have been out in front domestically for a few years now, so Europe is next step. Dundalk have done so, to an extent, Cork less so.

Some Cork fans seem riled that people are having a go at Cork, but it's simply because they've been so successful domestically that we expect more off them in Europe. Akin to Dundalk in Cyrpus, which was a pathetic performance IMO, we're disappointed that Cork haven't performed. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Yes, a lot comes down to the draw you get, but Cork's record this year is poor.

I don't think it makes sense to sack Caulfield, but it needs to be looked at come his next contract negotiation. It'd be a positive step for the likes of Cork to be demanding progress in Europe off their manager.

pineapple stu

10/08/2018, 11:37 AM

Some Cork fans seem riled that people are having a go at Cork, but it's simply because they've been so successful domestically that we expect more off them in Europe. Akin to Dundalk in Cyrpus, which was a pathetic performance IMO, we're disappointed that Cork haven't performed. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say alright. But you've said it better; thanks.

paul_oshea

10/08/2018, 11:44 AM

And go back two games and you see we scored six goals. We have struggled to score against teams who are better than us. We are finding the limit of our ability. That is perfectly normal. Certainly not reason to call for the managers head.

We beat teams worse than us, we struggle against teams better than us. Who doesn't?

I never said anything about Caufield getting the boot. I find him very negative anytime I hear him talk and he grates me, perhaps I'm biased at this stage but he cant even articulate himself. I definitely see a pattern between articulation, well spoken, versed and a proper management ability. There are many a great man motivator but also many who cant do anything else. And his bluntness on camera(radio etc) shows in his European performances.

I have no ties to either Cork or Dundalk, but I do find it funny when Cork fans defend their performances on a parallel. There isn't much difference between this Rosenborg team and the one last year, and Dundalk went out in extra time, away from home, and hit the crossbar in the same which would have put them through. Cork were nowhere near Rosenborg last night. So to say that Cork are anywhere near the other Irish teams in Europe is nonsense. And to say dundalk got lukcy one year, but then harp back to beating hacken in their own argument is also nonsense.

osarusan

10/08/2018, 12:27 PM

I don't think the comparisons with the NI league are fair at all. Up there they have players and managers going on holiday rather than going to games. There is an apathy about it which LOI clubs don't have.

pineapple stu

10/08/2018, 12:35 PM

I'm not drawing a direct comparison; obviously the North take things to extreme.

I'm just drawing a small parallel to illustrate a point - European progress is increasingly important

Ezeikial

10/08/2018, 3:29 PM

They won the double FFS! They have been top two consistently over a period of years, something the club has never done previously, certainly in anything resembling a sustainable manner. If that is "working to an extent" I don't think you're in much of a position to accuse anyone of being on a wind up or being deluded.

Wind your neck in a little - you appear to be getting unnecessarily excited around your interpretation of "working to an extent"
We appear to both agree that the style has worked for Cork

Despite this much criticised and hard-on-the-eye conservative style employed by Cork City under Caulfield there is no argument that he has been successful since he became manager in 2013. A record of 3 runners-up and one championship in 4 season is impressive and laudable, particular when the 2 cup wins are added - but is still a way off comparison with their main rivals. Hence a reasonable description of "working to an extent" in my opinion.

Whether you agree or disagree, the point on delusion arose out of the bizarre claim that from a Cork poster: "I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe". The two points are mutually exclusive

Ezeikial

10/08/2018, 3:39 PM

We haven't been negative in Europe this year. We don't have players with the technical ability that Dundalk have for sure - maybe that is down to the manager but this negative nonsense is just that - nonsense. I wouldn't go as far as El-P with the performance thing - but we did as well against the teams we faced as anyone else would have.

Fair enough - I suppose the description of tactics or approach is a question of interpretation.

The common shared opinion (including on the Cork fans forum) is that Cork were conservative generally and didn't sufficiently "have a go" in Europe this season or previously

Dundalk and ourselves have been shown up over the past few weeks but I wouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Long term progression is still evident. To win any of these ties you have to punch above your weight - and its hard to consistently do that. Dundalk have had more success than us in recent years in doing it - but with the likes of Towell, Horgan & Maguire et al now moving on there was always going to be a re-adjustment. It is what it is.

Agree with most of that. But to is "it is what it is" implies that it is going to just stay that way.

It does not have to - I fully Dundalk to work hard to bridge the gap, starting with player recruitment, that appears to have opened up in European terms. Stephen Kenny will also need to look inward in terms of areas like rotation, squad strength and tactical approach - I am hopeful that he will.

CorribsideSteve

10/08/2018, 3:39 PM

Caulfield's interview with Tony O'D came across as "Sure look, Rosenborg were always going to beat us. We move on with our lives, it is what it is". Cork, at some point in the future, will need a coach who is a bit more ambitious. You could see after about 70 mins that Cork could be there for 3 weeks straight and still not score. That aspect was the most disappointing of all.

Charlie Darwin

11/08/2018, 1:51 AM

I think that's too simplistic. From a football point of view, you're right of course. From a business point of view, the question is where are the clubs going. Cork's performances are worse in that regard because while Rovers and Derry were one goal away from decent wins with part-time (I think?) squads, Cork can't even get a goal, let alone a draw, with a full-time team.
Rovers are full time exactly the same as Cork and Dundalk. Derry are full time but not to the same degree.

oriel

14/08/2018, 10:31 PM

So Dundalk, Cork and Rovers all train mornings, offer 52 week contracts but what is the difference with Derry ?

As I mentioned in another thread, I’m currently on holidays in county cork, was in a rural pub earlier watching the Celtic game, I thought I finally got the Cork & City thing. Guy at the bar asking if a fella next to me was a Cork City man, (I’m in on my own) my ears perked up hoping for a bit of chat about the Rosenberg game.

The other guy ‘yeah I’m from outside Douglas’

paul_oshea

16/08/2018, 9:21 AM

John caufield not saying the obvious.

"If we can score out here it's game on. We know it's going to be difficult but we've done a lot of work on it and we feel we can create the chance and hopefully take the chance to open the game up.

"It's not about us having to score in the first 15 or 20 minutes but certainly we have to score. If we can do that. it unsettles people."

nigel-harps1954

16/08/2018, 10:20 AM

I would argue that they really do need to score in the first 20 minutes. Realistically, they'll likely need to be scoring 3, as I think Rosenborg will score.

EatYerGreens

16/08/2018, 11:30 AM

"It's not about us having to score in the first 15 or 20 minutes but certainly we have to score. If we can do that. it unsettles people."

Good to see a football manager pointing out that you have to score if you want to win a football match.

I wait impatiently for JC's follow-on career as a top pundit on RTE.

paul_oshea

16/08/2018, 12:43 PM

I would argue that they really do need to score in the first 20 minutes. Realistically, they'll likely need to be scoring 3, as I think Rosenborg will score.

Well before halftime would be fine, assuming rosenborg haven't scored by then. However I can't see them scoring 1 nevermind 2, and there is nothing to suggest otherwise. Be interested to know what he meant by identifying and working on things.

pineapple stu

16/08/2018, 4:29 PM

A note again on coefficient ahead of tonight.

Obviously a win would be good. With a win or a draw, Ireland could pass Moldova back out and go up to 35th. On the flip side, we are looking over our shoulders to 41st. Results to keep an eye out on from tonight are -

Moldova 0.050 ahead of us - Sheriff are away to Valur
Finland 0.175 behind us - HJK have just gone 1-0 down to Olympija Ljubljana after 25 minutes
Albania 0.200 behind us - Kukesi at home to Kutaisi
Bosnia 0.450 behind us - Zrinski Mostar at home to Ludogirets Razgrad, and need to overturn a 1-0 deficit to get more points in the next round
Iceland 0.450 behind us - Valur at home to Sheriff and are 1-0 up from the away leg
Lithuania 0.950 behind us but have two teams left. Suduva at home to Spartaks of Latvia and 1-0 up from the away leg, while Zalgiris Vilnius are at home to Sevilla and 1-0 down from the away leg.

As before, national coefficient is less important these days; it arguably affects the Youth League most.