Clubs divided over future LOI format?

[nigel-harps1954]

I actually remember a couple of years ago when I was in Athlone IT, they were lodging an application to join the A league at the time, the final year of the A league. When they heard it was the final year they pulled out the application.

[cornflakes]

FC Carlow were a victim of the property crash.

Shane Tracy and Bobby Tier were on that Carlow IT team, think there was a few Harps and Athlone players aswell?? Some kind of FAI course being ran in the college.

There was four Youths players on that team too. Think it was Jamie Carr, Craig Wall, James Scallan and Tom Elmes

[Sam_Heggy]

Yup, I meant Carlow IT and not FC Carlow.

Players can go there and do their coaching badges. I think at the end of 3 years there you can have your UEFA B License (obviously if you pass that is).

[pineapple stu]

College teams in the LoI? What a farce.

[Longfordian]

Gary Shaw of LTFC goes there I think.

[Comic Book Guy]

For what it's worth two officials from the FAI were in Cobh on Wednesday night at the Under 19 game with Cork City 'on a reccie' according the de echo.
Make of that what you will but I won't get my hopes up just yet.

[oriel]

Cobh were treated terribly when they were expelled, especially considering Cork 'only' got relegated for similar problems.

Also rumour over the weekend that Newry are applying to join the FD IN 2013.

[Sam_Heggy]

So, after the comments made a few weeks back, if Dundalk win the play-off, does Waterford pull out of LOI altogether??

[Martinho II]

So, after the comments made a few weeks back, if Dundalk win the play-off, does Waterford pull out of LOI altogether??

I think this is a bluff on Waterford's part. There was nothin in last fridays match programme at all about it!

[bluemovie]

There was no way that was going to be mentioned in the programme on Friday! "we're 2-0 up, but if we lose, the club will probably fold". Had things gone wrong on the night, that would've been enough to have a few of us jumping off the bridge.

It could be seen as part bluff/part realism. The chairman said it again on local radio on Saturday that promotion is so important because playing in a six or seven team First Division would be unfeasible for any club. If we don't go up, I could see him pulling out of the club, but I don't think he can pull the club out of the league. At the same time, I can't see any other way of raising the funds necessary to keep us going in the First Division. He's our Sugar Daddy - although he's more of a Canderel Daddy given the paltry wages involved. So even though I'm not sure if another year in the reduced First Division would see us pull out pre-season, I really don't know if we could complete the season and might end up doing a Monaghan. Hopefully we can just do the job on the pitch this week instead.

[culloty82]

Seems strange that the play-off is key to Waterford's future - after all, bar Wexford, you've the south-east to yourselves in terms of crowds, and while past history will do nothing for present-day finances, one would have thought it would help to rally people around the club, similar to what happened with Cork and Dundalk.

[bluemovie]

On twitter, Gary Dempsey seems fairly sure "the big prem teams have been asked if they want to enter a reserve team into the first division next year". So the First will be the new A Championship?

[bluewhitearmy]

On twitter, Gary Dempsey seems fairly sure "the big prem teams have been asked if they want to enter a reserve team into the first division next year". So the First will be the new A Championship?


No the first will still be the first with a few reserve teams to make up the numbers. If clubs have the money to run 2 teams like that cant see a problem with it being honest.

[Macy]

No the first will still be the first with a few reserve teams to make up the numbers. If clubs have the money to run 2 teams like that cant see a problem with it being honest.
You're alright - pull up that ladder.

[Charlie Darwin]

No the first will still be the first with a few reserve teams to make up the numbers. If clubs have the money to run 2 teams like that cant see a problem with it being honest.
How many reserve teams will Limerick be entering?

[El-Pietro]

i cant see teams being able to afford to enter teams into two divisions, and if you have to charge 10 euro minimum then how many people will go watch their reserve teams?

If we can charge people a 5er to watch the reservs out at Btown on Saturday nights or afternoons, I'd consider getting a season ticket. But I wouldn't be going to many, if any away games. Newry maybe!

[geezer]

So if a club finishes fourth it could b promoted? A recipe for many more monaghan situations as a promoted team normally at least can live on inflated attendances as a result of a good run then the novelty of the big teams coming to town. The reserve idea suits all those who take money from our game not those who pay for it. It will fail again but keeps the administrators in the game for another year. Itd a swirlpool of failure

[Charlie Darwin]

No, the way it works in Spain is that Barcelona/Real B can't be promoted. If they win the league or finish in a promotion spot, the next best team will be bumped up.

I'm not sure any of the reserve sides would be capable of mounting a serious challenge in the league anyway. None of the big sides have the money to be competing for players with other FD sides so it'd be youth players. Even so, Bohs are the only big team with an academy of note, and even they pinch half their players off Belvo.

[Dodge]

The A division promotion required the non-reserve teams to finish in the Top 4. Assume this will have something similar

Rovers, Sligo and Cork were the teams actively looking for this the past couple of months apparently

[gufc2000]

Sounds like a ridiculous idea. Reserve teams aren't going to entice people in the gates of Lissywoollen, Finn Park and wherever else. If it happens, it will be another shoddy attempt from the FAI to keep things ticking over.

Lower the entrance fee, relax licenicng for a seaon (happens already but sure at least it would be officially known that's in operation this time round) and entice new teams in. See it as an audition for a more definite organised structure in 2014.

[Dodge]

Sounds like a ridiculous idea. Reserve teams aren't going to entice people in the gates of Lissywoollen, Finn Park and wherever else

But Carlow IT would?

[sullanefc]

The A-championship should never have been gotten rid of anyway IMO. We are short on teams and this is a good way of making up the numbers. It also gives incoming teams an idea of the standard required. To keep the costs down, registration fees should be reduced from the current 19k, the 1st division should be regionalised and teams should be allowed to register u19s on the team.

If reserve teams are going to play in the first division, then it will become even more of a graveyard. For this reason, serious teams in the first division like Athlone, Finn Harps, Longford, Loser of Waterford v Dundalk etc should be promoted to an expanded premier.

[gufc2000]

But Carlow IT would?
Where exactly did I suggest that?

[Charlie Darwin]

There is something lunatic about charging FD clubs thousands to enter the league when so many millions are wasted elsewhere in the LOI. Making league football viable for as many clubs as possible should be a basic function of the FAI and entrance fees run completely contrary to that. I understand clubs also need to demonstrate viablity but lowering or removing the entrance fee would do so much to help clubs do that.

[bluewhitearmy]

How many reserve teams will Limerick be entering?

Just Cork again id say.

[Dodge]

Where exactly did I suggest that?

My point was that the first division needs new clubs and whoever they are won't really effect crowds. So there's no point in talking about it (in this case)

[bluewhitearmy]

Reserve teams aren't going to entice people in the gates of Lissywoollen, Finn Park and wherever else.

.

Do any of the other teams in the first division at the minute entice people into those grounds?

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't really care as long as there is more teams in some form. Ridiculous as it is playing everyone four times, I'd just like to see more teams at this stage.

In an ideal world the FAI would reduce the cost of entering the division and relax the licensing for one year to get clubs up to scratch, but, alas, ideal world and FAI don't usually go hand in hand.

[Blue Bear]

Apparently the Newry City idea has been blocked by the IFA

[outspoken]

Apparently the Newry City idea has been blocked by the IFA

Wouldnt surprise me at all

[TheBoss]

But if it is new club without affiliation, how can they block that ?

[nigel-harps1954]

Precisely my thoughts TheBoss. I assume it's more of a UEFA choice and not IFA choice, although they are in the jurisdiction of the IFA, they were recently kicked out, so should have every right to seek refuge elsewhere.

[Blue Bear]

Not sure of the reasons why but it's a shame, would have been good to have a new team in the FD.

[Charlie Darwin]

Derry had to have a special dispensation, didn't they? As far as I know, any club operating within the borders of Northern Ireland is under the IFA's purview so needs their permission to join another league. I suppose if they thought it was viable they could groundshare with Dundalk, but who'd willingly play half their games at Oriel?

[A face]

Apparently the Newry City idea has been blocked by the IFA

Nothing on the IFA website (http://www.irishfa.com/) for Belfast Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/) about it yet anyway.

[Blue Bear]

Heard from a very reliable source!

[A face]

Heard from a very reliable source!

But if they are refused then where does that leave them? They are in limbo according to this article (http://newrytimes.com/2012/10/15/bradley-welcomes-proposed-talks-between-ifa-and-newry-city-fc/) anyway. Would love to see a statement from the IFA on this.

[Dodge]

Newry would play in the IFA jurisdiction so would obviously need IFA permission. Up to them if they allow it or not.

[Lim till i die]

So if a club finishes fourth it could b promoted? A recipe for many more monaghan situations as a promoted team normally at least can live on inflated attendances as a result of a good run then the novelty of the big teams coming to town. The reserve idea suits all those who take money from our game not those who pay for it. It will fail again but keeps the administrators in the game for another year. Itd a swirlpool of failure

What does any of this mean??


Rovers, Sligo and Cork were the teams actively looking for this the past couple of months apparently

Surprises me.

Didn't think Cork would be that monied.

And always thought Sligo were one of the clubs who wanted the A League gone last time out.

Limerick have committed to entering two reserve sides for the record, an East Limerick/North Tipperary/Clare based one and a West Limerick/North Kerry/North Cork based one.


To keep the costs down, registration fees should be reduced from the current 19k

Everyone keeps banging on about this.

It's a red herring so massive I'm surprised the forum isn't swamped with Norwegian trwalers.

19 grand lads, give it a rest ffs.


the 1st division should be regionalised and teams should be allowed to register u19s on the team.

Fair enough.


If reserve teams are going to play in the first division, then it will become even more of a graveyard. For this reason, serious teams in the first division like Athlone, Finn Harps, Longford, Loser of Waterford v Dundalk etc should be promoted to an expanded premier

You don't want to go down the road of promoting teams just because we've heard of them, I'm at a loss as to why any of them are more serious teams than Wexford (who finished ahead of Athlone and Harps) or Mervue (who since entering the league have stubbornly refused to cause any controversy whatsoever.)

[gufc2000]

19 grand lads, give it a rest ffs.

We don't all have benefactors covering big fees like this. €19k is a crazy sum to fork out before the season starts. Doubt a supporter of the pre-Pat O'Sullivan Limerick would be making a comment like this

[Lim till i die]

€19k is a crazy sum to fork out before the season starts.

Given that it costs a bare, this is the minimum amount you'd need to be absolutely terrible, 180 to 200 grand to field a First Division team, the inability to raise 19 should probably focus some minds on whether or not senior football is for them at any club which struggles to raise it.

I would be very sceptical as to whether the FAI get, or indeed even demand, this 19 grand off every club before the season starts.

[gufc2000]

Given that it costs a bare, this is the minimum amount you'd need to be absolutely terrible, 180 to 200 grand to field a First Division team, the inability to raise 19 should probably focus some minds on whether or not senior football is for them at any club which struggles to raise it.

I would be very sceptical as to whether the FAI get, or indeed even demand, this 19 grand off every club before the season starts.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's €19,000 that could be spent far better than passing it off to the FAI.

[Lim till i die]

But it's only 19k.

And everyone is fixating on it.

Even though it's only 19k.

[Mr A]

Let's say they cut it to 5k.. that's a 7% reduction in costs to a club spending 200k currently (and there are several clubs turning over less). Most businesses would bite your hand off for a cost reduction of that size. If they also reduced refereeing costs and perhaps fines they could knock say 10% off what it costs to be a D1 club. Not massive of course, but in the current environment it could make a big difference.

[Lim till i die]

Not massive of course, but in the current environment it could make a big difference.

Do you honestly think 15 to 20 grand would make a big difference to a competing senior club?? (or that it even should?!?!)


Insurance: 20 grand
Medical: 15 grand
Training: 10 grand
Travel: 8 grand
Staff: 20 grand
Players: 40 grand

That's me being incredibly, stupidly, generous on the remaining expenditures there.

Now say Harps (and again I'm going to be really generous here) take 40 grand on the gate over the course of a season.

You're still having to go find that other 70 odd.

I'm not saying it's right that it's 19 grand, or that it shouldn't be reduced. I'm just saying the talk on here from a lot of people like removing the 19 grand would be some kind of panacea for all the leagues ills and would make insolvent clubs suddenly solvent is an absolute nonsense.

There's a bigger picture there, referee costs and fines which you mentioned are a part, insurance is another big part, wages are another big part.

[Mr A]

I think the reason people focus on it is that the league takes in more in affiliation more than it pays out in prize money. That's always going to stick in people's craw. plus clubs like Harps have cut a lot already and bar going all amateur (which means non league clubs will be able to outbid us on all players rather than just most and would probably cost us more in gates and sponsorship than we'd save) there's not much left to do on that front. Last year we came very close to going under for the want of 40k..

For what it's worth I'd flatten the distribution of prizemoney as well, having it massively weighted towards the top is like bringing the graduating class from gamblers anonymous to the local bookies to celebrate.

[nigel-harps1954]

Do you honestly think 15 to 20 grand would make a big difference to a competing senior club?? (or that it even should?!?!)

Boom and BOOM. That nail was well and truely hit.

19k shouldn't make a difference, but it does.

In the grand scheme of things though, it's not just the entrance fee.



I'm not saying it's right that it's 19 grand, or that it shouldn't be reduced. I'm just saying the talk on here from a lot of people like removing the 19 grand would be some kind of panacea for all the leagues ills and would make insolvent clubs suddenly solvent is an absolute nonsense.

But it would go a long way to helping with financial problems.



There's a bigger picture there, referee costs and fines which you mentioned are a part, insurance is another big part, wages are another big part.

This is the big problem. Referees in this league are very healthily paid, and they shouldn't be. The standard is shocking, and they get well rewarded with being so bad.

Fines are extortionate, and often hurt a club badly. A club and fans playing by the rules shouldn't be hit with fines, but it happens.


A club saving €20,000 over the course of a season with reduced league entrance fees, fines, refereeing costs, insurance could make or break a season.


Remember the days 20k would have been a huge profit margin and a hugely successful season for Limerick LTID?

[Lim till i die]

Doubt a supporter of the pre-Pat O'Sullivan Limerick would be making a comment like this


Remember the days 20k would have been a huge profit margin and a hugely successful season for Limerick LTID?

"LTID iznt aloud coment on da legue cuz limrick iz rich nw an wern alwayz"

Jesus wept lads. :rolleyes:


Boom and BOOM. That nail was well and truely hit.

19k shouldn't make a difference, but it does.

In the grand scheme of things though, it's not just the entrance fee.

EUREKA!!


A club saving €20,000 over the course of a season with reduced league entrance fees, fines, refereeing costs, insurance could make or break a season.

Like you said yourself above though it shouldn't.

Why would it??

Because the clubs are all ****ed.

Are the clubs all ****ed because of the 19 grand??

No.

That's all I'm saying boys and girls. :good:

[Charlie Darwin]

How much would Mons be in the hole had they not folded? I'd say 19k is more than enough to sink a club.

[Lim till i die]

1K is enough to sink a club if their cash flow is bad enough and there's a big enough ****** looking for it.

My point is that people need to ask why this is the case.

Not bang on and on about the 19 grand like twould sort everything.