Clubs divided over future LOI format?

[pateen]

Mullingar Town made a push for the first but were knocked back for Kildare and Dublin City - and look at how they turned out.
Having said that both Mullingar Town and Mullingar Athletic both gone backwards since then, playing in some god damn awful Midlands league with the likes of Clara and Ballyjamesduff. Gone the heady days when the Town had a team of exotic players from London, doing half decent in the Under 21 league, now we have nothing at all.:mad:

Yeah I remember that alright.

What about teams that used to be in the LOI/A Championship
Kilkenny City
Carlow Town
Tralee Dynamos
Castlebar Celtic

[NeverFeltBetter]

Carlow don't have a good enough ground I think. Dynamos were having a meeting to consider an application, don't think anything came of it. Maybe not interested after being rejected last year.

[wonder88]

Thurles Town were in the league for a few years, no reason why they should not return. Also I think that Ennis would be an excellent location for a LoI team because of it being close to Shannon Airport it could attract players over from England. A few good ones from across the water added to the overspill from Limerick combined with any good local players would give a strong team. It would be great to see Home Farm back as well, cup winners from 1975 I think where they beat the mighty Shelbourne.

[Ezeikial]

Also I think that Ennis would be an excellent location for a LoI team because of it being close to Shannon Airport it could attract players over from England.

How far is Termonbarry from Knock airport?

[Partizan]

Thurles Town were in the league for a few years, no reason why they should not return. Also I think that Ennis would be an excellent location for a LoI team because of it being close to Shannon Airport it could attract players over from England. A few good ones from across the water added to the overspill from Limerick combined with any good local players would give a strong team. It would be great to see Home Farm back as well, cup winners from 1975 I think where they beat the mighty Shelbourne.

You are grasping at straws here. There is every reason why TT will not return and their last sojourn in the LOI is just that. That experience stung them and I cant see them coming back neither Home Farm or Kilkenny. Tralee or Killarney have shied away as have Westport and Castlebar. Cobh are in absolutely no position right now to make the step up and FC Carlow were knocked back last year.

So its looking like the madness and pigheaded stubborness of the FAI will see the FD with just 7 teams next season.

[gufct]

Teams will not threaten the future of their Junior wing by splashing out €180,000 just to survive in the 1st Division. Cobh seem to be the FAI's oick of any teams looking to get back in but a lot of knowlegable Posters on here feel they still have a legacy debt that will stop them.

Interesting that posters are suggesting Towns where clubs have failed already and Home Farm are a definite non runner.

[peadar1987]

Just because a town has had a failed LOI team in the past doesn't mean it could never sustain one. Otherwise Dublin, Cork, Drogheda and Galway would be non-runners

[Partizan]

Just because a town has had a failed LOI team in the past doesn't mean it could never sustain one. Otherwise Dublin, Cork, Drogheda and Galway would be non-runners

Are you serious? Who do you see ponying up the €19k entrance fee and paying 300k to just participate and some way compete?

[Comic Book Guy]

Teams will not threaten the future of their Junior wing by splashing out €180,000 just to survive in the 1st Division. Cobh seem to be the FAI's oick of any teams looking to get back in but a lot of knowlegable Posters on here feel they still have a legacy debt that will stop them.

Interesting that posters are suggesting Towns where clubs have failed already and Home Farm are a definite non runner.

The rumours of a return to the LOI for Ramblers seem to persist but I'm not sure how the club can come up with the money to run even an all amateur side.
The support for the club is there, it was in the past but there is one major obstacle to that, namely the chairman who caused all the mess is still there. How or why I don't know, but if it happened in a bigger club there would be uproar and it would have had repercussions throughout football in this country. I'll say no more than that.
When we were denied a license in 2009 there was a civil war within the club and I'm certain the FAI wanted us out then because it would have caused embarrassment for some people within the FAI in this country if certain things ever came to light.

[peadar1987]

Are you serious? Who do you see ponying up the €19k entrance fee and paying 300k to just participate and some way compete?

Yes, I'm serious. Unless you're suggesting that Dublin, Cork, and Galway are incapable of supporting LOI teams because teams from there have failed in the past. I never said that Mullingar, or Thurles, or Clonmel would definitely have an LOI team within the next two years.

Where has your figure of €300k come from by the way? Is it from any club in particular?

[gufct]

€180,000 budget to finish last in the 1st division and tahts only paying Players expenses.THe travel bill for Provincal clubs is huge especially as they would be running an u19 team as well.

[nigel-harps1954]

Shir can't we just start a team ourselves? Foot.ie United? How hard can it be? We'll play out of the Aviva. Or Terryland.

[peadar1987]

Shir can't we just start a team ourselves? Foot.ie United? How hard can it be? We'll play out of the Aviva. Or Terryland.

Or Thomond Park

[NeverFeltBetter]

Roddy Collins thinks it would be a perfect fit. Quote, "Sure, they're always talking about me"

[Charlie Darwin]

Just because a town has had a failed LOI team in the past doesn't mean it could never sustain one. Otherwise Dublin, Cork, Drogheda and Galway would be non-runners
Have the circumstances that led to those teams failing changed? If not, what reason is there to suggest it could work this time around?

[peadar1987]

Have the circumstances that led to those teams failing changed? If not, what reason is there to suggest it could work this time around?

I'd be lying if I said I knew the underlying reasons why Kilkenny, Kildare, Carlow, Portlaoise, Tralee and even Monaghan don't have teams in the LOI structure, but that wasn't really my point. Drogheda, Cork, Galway, Cork again, Derry, etc. failed because of gross financial mismanagement. The first assumption in their cases isn't that those towns are fundamentally unsuitable for LOI football, so why should it be the first assumption when we're talking about other population centres of a similar size?

[Charlie Darwin]

But that's not people's first assumption. These were small, ambitious clubs that nevertheless found competing in a business environment very tough due to low levels of interest from locals, the presence of more popular sports proving a greater draw for players, sponsors and playing pitches, and a completely unhelpful governing body that made it more difficult for a small club to survive at senior level. Unless any of these realities have changed (keep an eye on this ash fungus epidemic for hurling's future prospects), it's not going to be any easier for these clubs to survive now than before.

[BonnieShels]

Shir can't we just start a team ourselves? Foot.ie United? How hard can it be? We'll play out of the Aviva. Or Terryland.

Seriously... That's what we would call the team? Really? Nothing else at all comes to mind?

:P

[Jofspring]

Or Thomond Park

Us ground share...No Way!!

[nigel-harps1954]

Seriously... That's what we would call the team? Really? Nothing else at all comes to mind?

:P

Unless we actually play out of Termonbarry Park..then no, I can't think of anything else.

[CrowdedHouse]

I'd be lying if I said I knew the underlying reasons why Kilkenny, Kildare, Carlow, Portlaoise, Tralee and even Monaghan don't have teams in the LOI


A colleague of mine is one of the honchos in Portlaoise. He told me their foray into the U21's a few years ago nearly broke them, not to mention the extra work/hassle

[Longfordian]

The more I think about the clubs that have had to pack up and leave the league the more I appreciate those who have put so much into keeping LTFC going over the years. Both work and cash. The club is in good health at the moment, now if we could only get out of this damned First Division.

[Martinho II]

there was a great piece from gareth maher in todays mail on Cobh Ramblers.. he seems very confident that Cobh Ramblers will get back in for next season.

[cheifo]

there was a great piece from gareth maher in todays mail on Cobh Ramblers.. he seems very confident that Cobh Ramblers will get back in for next season.

That sounds like an interesting read if anyone can put it on here.

[A face]

That sounds like an interesting read if anyone can put it on here.

Yeah, wouldn't mind seeing that if its online.

[wonder88]

Hope Cobh can make a comeback. Is the GAA very strong in Cobh can anyone tell ?

[Comic Book Guy]

Hope Cobh can make a comeback. Is the GAA very strong in Cobh can anyone tell ?

The gaa club in cobh is very well run as far as I can tell but tbh they haven't had much success, the hurling team were relegated to junior status a couple of seasons ago and the gaelic football side of things operates at junior level too which for a town of its size is not good.
They seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on the underage set up which seems to be doing alright.

[bluewhitearmy]

Cobh Ramblers could be re-admitted to the First Division next season as talks continue over the club’s outstanding debts.

http://s1.jrnl.ie/media/2012/11/inpho_00534474-390x285.jpg

COBH RAMBLERS ARE in line for a return to Airtricity League football next season. The mid-season collapse of Monaghan United has left the unappealing scenario of just seven teams competing in the First Division in 2013. That void could be filled by Ramblers and talks with the FAI and players’ body the PFAI are ongoing with a view to granting the Cork club a licence.
The news comes following a report (http://www.galwaynews.ie/28721-league-status-quo-remain-2013) todaythat the plan to create unify Galway’s existing teams into a a single club will not happen until 2014 at the earliest. The Galway City Tribune (http://www.galwaynews.ie/28721-league-status-quo-remain-2013) reports that Galway United Supporters Trust (GUST) will not be granted a licence for next season. Ramblers, who number former Irish internationals Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland among their past players, were demoted to the “A” Championship in 2009 as the Independent Club Licensing Committee sought to crack down on financial irregularities within the league. Although they were optimistic that they would be green-lighted for a return in 2012, the FAI pressed ahead with an eight-team structure, rejecting the applications from Cobh and from Tralee Dynamos. It is understood that Cobh still have outstanding debts in the region of €24,000 owed to former players and others, and it is this sum which will be the key issue in negotiations. Speaking toTheScore.ie, PFAI chief executive Stephen McGuinness confirmed that discussions were ongoing with a number of the league’s former clubs but declined to identify the teams involved.
“We’re in discussions with the FAI at the moment and I would be surprised if there’s not more teams in the First Division next season,” McGuinness said.
“We’re in discussions with them currently on some teams that owe money to former players and that might be a stumbling block to them coming into the league. We’re in discussions with the FAI to try and overcome some of those problems to ensure that there is another one or two teams in the division. That ultimately will give employment to some of our members and also make that league more attractive for supporters and sponsors and people in general. He added: “With seven teams, you don’t need to be a rocket scientists to see that it doesn’t work. It’s in our interest to get teams that may have fallen out in the last couple of years back in, but that has to be done on the premise that monies that are owed to former players are honoured.
“We would be open enough to discuss them with the FAI and with the individual clubs involved. Hopefully we’ll see more than seven teams in that division in the next couple of weeks.”

[Dermotron]

Surely big towns such as Mullingar, Castlebar and Kilkenny could get teams back running. Mullingar used to have two teams in the old reserve leagues. Im still wondering as to why they never went for the A Divison that time. Also to a lesser extent, there is alot of players coming out of Tipperary, can a team not reserrect itself from somewhere in the county?!

The rumour mill locally has been touting that Kilkenny City will be back in the league in the next 2yrs but the biggest stumbling block is also the clubs biggest asset imo, Buckley Park. The grounds and pitch (whilst a little sloped) are in very good order still and more than capable for a LOI team. The issue is the grounds are 3 miles outside the city. Whilst it's not a lot, it probably cuts exposure to the club by half. You also have none of the footfall of a local residential area(s) nearby. Die hard fans are the lifeblood of every club and I'd know quiet a few people who went to pretty much every game but I think it's location is probably off putting to a casual fan, and a smaller club like that needs to be accessible to all really.

Whilst the county and city on a whole is hurling mad, soccer is easily the number 2 sport. It's pretty much if you don't play one it's mostly cos you play the other. For such a small pool the KDL has won the Oscar Traynor trophy 5 times which shows not everyone here is a small ball fanatic.

Take for instance this Sunday will be the 1st league meeting of Kilkennys biggest junior clubs and biggest rivals, Freebooters Vs. Evergreen. The weather will probably have a bearing on attendance but it will still draw approx. 250-300 people to it (easily double on a dry spring/autumn evening). Only half of those will be directly involved or supporters of either club meaning the other half are just people looking for a decent game to watch. When the reverse fixture is played there will be probably only 100-150 people at it (depending on time of year and whats a stake by then maybe). For anyone that knows Kilkenny, Freebooters play beside the cinema which is right in the heart of the town, basically where the commercial aspect ends and the residential side of the town begins. Evergreen play at a new complex 5 miles outside the town hence what will in all likely be a big drop in the numbers attending. It's those interested in the game cos it was local that won't/can't go.

The point I'm making is that I couldn't see Kilkenny City returning to the league without a ground somewhere near or in the center of the town (Scanlon Park is the only remotely viable site if even). The flip side of it is, I don't ever see Kilkenny City returning to the league and not being in Buckley Park either.



One saving grace could be that the KDL's own pitch is up at the back of Buckley Park and now has a floodlit pitch installed. A lot of the local junior clubs are using the pitch for training so it could well be decent exposure and free advertising directly to the its target audience without any cost except for a few advertising boards for kick-off times, next game etc.


Would love to see City back in the league in the near future but with a few locals in the side - Pat Scully might have done a good job with nearly a complete Dublin team but it felt soulless supporting them. Not sure how every other club feels about having no locals in the side but from a part of the world where the parish rule rules all, it's hard not to crave some sort of attachment.


Splitting a future expanded 1st Division into North/South or East/West may be the only way clubs like City could sustain a team without being on the verge of bankruptcy every year, but that's a different discussion entirely.

[nigel-harps1954]

Personally, I'd love to see Kilkenny back. Fantastic little ground, great memories of our last promotion season down there. Lovely city, great place to spend a weekend, lovely people.

It's a real shame however, that I just don't see it happening. The only way forward for Kilkenny city is if they applied to be part of the league and ran an all amateur side with local players from the likes of Freebooters and Evergreen.

[Kildare Lad]

Haven't posted on here in a good while, but from a personal point of view the last few pages really make me wish that Kildare County were still around. Many towns/clubs are being mentioned as possibilities to enter the league at some point in the future, but I really do not understand what it takes for a club to be successful, in my opinion, under current structures it is near impossible for a new club to be formed and sustainable at League of Ireland level.

Looking at Kildare as an example, a county of over 200,000 people yet no LoI representative team anymore. Admittedly it is a predominantly gaelic football county, but soccer is also quite popular around the county. Station Road is a ground perfectly suitable for a LoI first division club, around 850(ish) seats, stands on either side of the pitch (only one covered), a bar in the clubhouse, easily accessible by rail/road/bus, not more than a 10 minute walk from Newbridge town centre, located in a town of 20,000+ with Naas only 10 minutes away. Now I'm sure there is much more to justify entering a team, but it really seems like the perfect area to have a league of Ireland team.

However as you are all aware, Kildare County failed despite the best efforts of everyone involved with the club. Initially crowds were good and results were decent, but both fell significantly by the end. It honestly wrecks my brain regularly (3 years later) why the club was unsustainable. As I said, I believe under current structures it is very unlikely a team will form and be sustainable. The FAI at the very minimum need to lower costs for teams entering the league and assist in helping new clubs get their act together, in order for the league to be taken seriously it needs to be ran much better.

[White Horse]

Good post from Kildare.

Ultimately clubs need a significant core fan base and the support of the wider local community to survive the inevitable hard times.

There were enough people in Cork, Derry, Drogheda, Dundalk etc that would not and could not accept the prospect of their town losing their football team.

However, in Monaghan, Fingal, Kilkenny, and Kildare there weren't.

[Dermotron]

Personally, I'd love to see Kilkenny back. Fantastic little ground, great memories of our last promotion season down there. Lovely city, great place to spend a weekend, lovely people.

It's a real shame however, that I just don't see it happening. The only way forward for Kilkenny city is if they applied to be part of the league and ran an all amateur side with local players from the likes of Freebooters and Evergreen.

The problem with that idea is that with an amateur side of local based players would just want to play against each other than on the same team as each other. The majority of players in the city have a background in either club and the rivalry is fierce. The last time both teams had sets of players willing to put aside the club rivalries the KDL won or had deep runs in the Oscar Traynor competition. I'm not sure if a LOI club would have enough pull for a lot of the better/necessary players to forfeit playing junior of a Sunday to play on a Tuesday evening in Ballybofey or Galway. Possibly if the games were only ever on guaranteed to be played on Sat/Sun (even Friday is a stretch) do I think it would work.

There is the talent for a local team already playing within the LOI - Dave Mulcahy, Sean McGuire, Graham Doyle, Aidan Keenan, Dean Broaders, Chris Browne, Ben Ryan, Lee Delaney, Peter Higgins, Packie Holden, Billy Brennan and couple of others are all locals. Plus there are plenty who have played in the LOI at some stage that would still be good enough.

I just don't think the draw would be enough to be sustainable from a player perspective but would definitely from a huge boost from an interest perspective.


Good post from Kildare.

Ultimately clubs need a significant core fan base and the support of the wider local community to survive the inevitable hard times.

There were enough people in Cork, Derry, Drogheda, Dundalk etc that would not and could not accept the prospect of their town losing their football team.

However, in Monaghan, Fingal, Kilkenny, and Kildare there weren't.

Agree with the core fan base point. Kilkenny nearly reached that point in that glorious 1st time getting promoted. If the following season hadn't been so abysmal I think that a solid core could indeed have been maintained and developed. Over half the regular crowd at the time was in the 12-18 age bracket and it's around this age that I think someone will still be a little bit of a glory hunter (esp the younger of that group) and once we were pummelled week after week, the interest died out a lot quicker than anticipated. Even going down on the last day/week would have been a totally different story. Relegation with 4 or 5 games left to play (mathematically even though in reality it was more 10 games left) was tough to take. I think the 2000-2001 season was the nail in the coffin in terms of developing a core fan base. Fickle I know but in terms of pulling power versus the GAA here, the split is approx. 85% hurling, 10% soccer, 5% the rest. And plenty of that 10% crosses over to the hurling too.

Another case of what could have been.

Hopefully someday it will be a case of what it can be again.

[sheao]

Read somewhere that today is the deadline for new applications to the league .

[NeverFeltBetter]

I thought "expressions of interest" had to be in weeks ago.

[Neish]

However as you are all aware, Kildare County failed despite the best efforts of everyone involved with the club. Initially crowds were good and results were decent, but both fell significantly by the end. It honestly wrecks my brain regularly (3 years later) why the club was unsustainable. As I said, I believe under current structures it is very unlikely a team will form and be sustainable. The FAI at the very minimum need to lower costs for teams entering the league and assist in helping new clubs get their act together, in order for the league to be taken seriously it needs to be ran much better.

Was a Station road 2 or 3 times and always enjoyed the trips there(especially the the last away game in 2004) great club with good facilities. But unfortunately the average Irish (so-called) football fan has more interest in watching foreign teams on the TV then they do for watching their own local club live. And under the current regime in the FAI I can't see that changing or any major effort to do so

[Trainee]

Salthill have called an EGM for next week - rumor is they could decide to pull out of the league

http://www.salthilldevon.ie/news/183-salthill-devon-egm-13th-december-8-00pm

Also please note: The EGM will be followed immediately, the same night by a General meeting to Review the LOI season and discuss next season

[NeverFeltBetter]

That says the EGM is over changing the date of AGM's. Whose saying SD are pulling out?

[Mr A]

Maybe they're having a general meeting to talk about how well the LOI season went.