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Macy
20/09/2012, 10:29 AM
I was talking to someone who should know, and the reserve team thing has been on the table for a while. Most FD teams oppose it apparently
Ok - I stand corrected. Good to see they've devoted a few minutes to the issue. However, Dan McD's indo piece also suggests that it mightn't be supported by premier teams either.


One option being considered to bring the First Division up to speed is that top-flight clubs could enter reserve sides.

However, the cost and logistics are likely to deter Premier Division sides from doing this.

It's clear from the articles that they're winging it on other teams coming in - "We'll just have to wait and see" as per the Times article. Did they even notice that there was only 11 teams for much of this season, to base their thinking that a 12 team premier is best? Mind you, I guess mons going belly up helped with their attendance increase stat.
El-Pietro
20/09/2012, 10:42 AM
I was talking to someone who should know, and the reserve team thing has been on the table for a while. Most FD teams oppose it apparently

I can't imagine many premier division clubs being able to afford a second entry. I also can't imagine many Premier Division supporters paying €10 to go watch their reserve side on a Saturday night. You'd not get many fans travelling to away games either, especially as they could well be on the same day as the teams home games.

If the participation fee was reduced, or abolished, and City could charge €5 entry into Bishopstown on Saturday nights, and all Premier games were to be played Fridays and first games Saturdays then maybe there could be interest. Perhaps a combined season ticket - say for example €170 euro for the Premier Division, €70 euro for the first division or €200 for both teams - could help.
El-Pietro
20/09/2012, 10:43 AM
Ok - I stand corrected. Good to see they've devoted a few minutes to the issue. However, Dan McD's indo piece also suggests that it mightn't be supported by premier teams either.



It's clear from the articles that they're winging it on other teams coming in - "We'll just have to wait and see" as per the Times article. Did they even notice that there was only 11 teams for much of this season, to base their thinking that a 12 team premier is best? Mind you, I guess mons going belly up helped with their attendance increase stat.

Our promotion hasn't hurt it either - they say Premier attendances are up, but gloss over the reduced attendance in the first. Has the overall gone up at all?
Dodge
20/09/2012, 11:16 AM
The difference between the A league reserve team, and these Reserve teams is that the Premier clubs 9at least initially) were forced to have an A side, whereas this would be voluntary. I've no idea what would happen if, say, Cork were relegated. Would that reserve team collapse?

The issue of pricing has to be looked at alright
bluewhitearmy
20/09/2012, 11:47 AM
It was some of the prem teams that brought it up not the FAI so clearly some would support it.

Been told too that Tralee and Cobh have stated an interest i trying again.
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 11:52 AM
I've never been so desperate for Limerick to escape from this mess.
El-Pietro
20/09/2012, 12:03 PM
The difference between the A league reserve team, and these Reserve teams is that the Premier clubs 9at least initially) were forced to have an A side, whereas this would be voluntary. I've no idea what would happen if, say, Cork were relegated. Would that reserve team collapse?

The issue of pricing has to be looked at alright

what if a team got relegated and their reserves got promoted?
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 12:06 PM
Reserves can't get promoted under these kind of systems, so they'd probably cease to exist.
Jofspring
20/09/2012, 12:48 PM
Reserves can't get promoted under these kind of systems, so they'd probably cease to exist.

Meaning they would need to find a replacement. Sounds like it could be very messy year to year.
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 12:51 PM
Well, in that specific situation I assume the replacement is the relegated parent club, no?
adamd164
20/09/2012, 12:55 PM
I don't see how anyone can expect the FAI to have time to plan long term strategies for the league structure when they're busy releasing urgent statements regarding how many caps Damien Duff officially got for Ireland.

http://www.fai.ie/international/senior-men/102762.html
Jofspring
20/09/2012, 1:01 PM
Well, in that specific situation I assume the replacement is the relegated parent club, no?

But let's say cork go down and Finn harps get promoted. That means two teams went out of the first division, cork reserves(can't exist) and harps(champions) but only one team came down, cork first team.
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 1:09 PM
I see your point.
Guitd
20/09/2012, 2:03 PM
Athlone dont seem to be too happy about new league structure going forward and with some of the "sub standard clubs involved in LOI" here--http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/sport/roundup/articles/2012/09/20/4012336-fai-announcement-points-to-bleak-future--athlone-town-chairman/
bluewhitearmy
20/09/2012, 2:16 PM
Athlone dont seem to be too happy about new league structure going forward and with some of the "sub standard clubs involved in LOI" here--http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/sport/roundup/articles/2012/09/20/4012336-fai-announcement-points-to-bleak-future--athlone-town-chairman/


Just from that article it says "and to adhere to UEFA directives, they need two divisions "surely people cant blame the FAI for sticking to what Uefa say if that is true.
Dodge
20/09/2012, 2:27 PM
Dunno if thats true. He's wrong about the co-efficient though
Sam_Heggy
20/09/2012, 2:43 PM
Just from that article it says "and to adhere to UEFA directives, they need two divisions "surely people cant blame the FAI for sticking to what Uefa say if that is true.

So why even mention a single tier division in the first place?

It should never have been offered as an alternative option if this was the case.
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 2:47 PM
There must be some UEFA leagues that operate with just one tier.

Edit: I don't even know where to look to confirm/deny that UEFA has such a rule. Here it says they are "commited" to a promotion/relegation model: http://www.uefa.com/uefa/elevenvalues/index.html
Trainee
20/09/2012, 2:53 PM
Just from that article it says "and to adhere to UEFA directives, they need two divisions "surely people cant blame the FAI for sticking to what Uefa say if that is true.

Surely if Uefa say we need 2 divisions,they would say whats the Min numbers of teams in the league to be counted, If they do I wounder would the First div this 7 teams count as a league, I am nearly sure I heard that to be counted as a league by UEFA you must have a min of 10 teams in the league (maybe thats just for Premier div)
bluewhitearmy
20/09/2012, 2:54 PM
So why even mention a single tier division in the first place?

It should never have been offered as an alternative option if this was the case.


Did the FAI offer it though? Or was it just clubs asking for it?

Ive no idea of the ins and outs of it i have heard a few things from people at different clubs though. I just found it strange that that fella from Athlone seems to give a reason against what he wants in an interview.
Dodge
20/09/2012, 2:58 PM
In fairness he said its been discussed for 2 years. It clearly wouldn't be discussed for 2 years if they said "listen we need 2 leagues for UEFA end of story..."

So either the FAI only found out at the end (entirely plausible) or the Athlone guy is mistaken (as he certainly is with the co-efficient)
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 3:04 PM
In the 2012 Statutes of UEFA, (http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/01/80/54/03/1805403_DOWNLOAD.pdf) Article 51:

"A clubs entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship shall depend on principally on sporting merit. A club will qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division or by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of the season."

While I'm personally for a single division, if UEFA rules don't permit it, its them I'd have the beef with, not the FAI.
Dodge
20/09/2012, 3:28 PM
That doesn't preclude one division leagues

"A club will qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division or..."

That bit before or means they're ok.
NeverFeltBetter
20/09/2012, 3:34 PM
Deciphering UEFA rules and regs was never my strongpoint.
Mr A
20/09/2012, 3:37 PM
To look at this another way, if the FAI need a second tier, you'd think they'd show some interest in making it viable. They haven't made any moves here, so that doesn't seem to be the case.

While there may be some mistakes in what the Athlone Chair has said, the overall message is correct and very concerning for the league overall- that basically we're approaching a point were running a division one club is getting more and more difficult (and perhaps soon impossible without financial backing) to do on a viable basis. And this is endangering some good clubs that are not currently doing a lot wrong- which is a very worrying situation for the league overall. Especially given the rate at which we lose clubs without such pressures. We need a first division that is viable for clubs, and that can provide promoted teams that consistently have a chance of holding their own in the premier- and currently we're getting further away from that.
nigel-harps1954
20/09/2012, 5:19 PM
Lower the damn prices FAI.
A face
21/09/2012, 10:58 AM
Lower the damn prices FAI.

They are not obligated to respond to this, even if they read it or not. Contact them directly if you want it to be notice. For the record, i dont think there is any harm in asking.
gufcfan
21/09/2012, 9:27 PM
It should never have been offered as an alternative option if this was the case.

Sure was it not FB clubs who are desperate to get out of the FD that have been whining about it. Was that not how it got on the agenda?
nigel-harps1954
22/09/2012, 5:48 PM
They are not obligated to respond to this, even if they read it or not. Contact them directly if you want it to be notice. For the record, i dont think there is any harm in asking.

Pointless adventure I'd reckon. Emailled them a few times on different subjects and I've never once got a response from them.
A face
24/09/2012, 12:13 PM
Pointless adventure I'd reckon. Emailled them a few times on different subjects and I've never once got a response from them.

Jebus, what were the subjects? Cos i have always got a reply to be fair, admittedly sometimes it could be a week later but you'll get a reply.
nigel-harps1954
24/09/2012, 6:15 PM
Jebus, what were the subjects? Cos i have always got a reply to be fair, admittedly sometimes it could be a week later but you'll get a reply.

Usually, in fairness to them, I'm b!tching about something, be it costs of referees, size of division or general lack of interest from the FAI.
A face
24/09/2012, 9:40 PM
Usually, in fairness to them, I'm b!tching about something, be it costs of referees, size of division or general lack of interest from the FAI.

Same as me really :) .... I don't use language and i try and give possible solutions etc. rather than just sticking the knife in but other than that its normally giving out about something alright ;)
NeverFeltBetter
24/09/2012, 9:45 PM
Most organisations of that type (well, I know for certain RTE, but I assume its the same for others) have policies in place where they are obligated to reply to any letter that isn't abusive in nature.
nigel-harps1954
24/09/2012, 10:36 PM
Never really been abusive as such, but I do like to point out failures. Especially when it's the FAI.
trevy
26/09/2012, 8:33 AM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0926/339134-alan-cawleys-airtricity-league-blog/

Good article from Alan Cawley on rte website about the future and format of the league.
Sam_Heggy
19/10/2012, 8:33 PM
Newry City??? Anyone else hear anything?

Few mentions of them applying to the LOI on the IL forum.
bullit
19/10/2012, 8:44 PM
Newry City??? Anyone else hear anything?

Few mentions of them applying to the LOI on the IL forum.

Are they on the bucky? I'd have their ground all the same.
Mr_Parker
19/10/2012, 9:09 PM
Newry City??? Anyone else hear anything?

Few mentions of them applying to the LOI on the IL forum.

As I said there...


Based on the following from the Licencing Manual, on which basis could they apply?


4. LICENCE APPLICANT AND LICENCE
4.1. DEFINITION OF LICENCE APPLICANTS
4.1.1. PRINCIPLE
The licence applicant is defined as being the legal entity fully responsible for the football team participating
in the FAI League of Ireland club competitions and which is either:
a) any legal entity according to national law and/or FAI statutes, which is member of the
FAI and/or the League of Ireland (hereafter, registered member), or
b) any legal entity according to national law and/or FAI statutes, which has a contractual
relationship to a registered member (hereafter, company).

And if they could apply, their expression of interest would have had to have been received by the FAI 4 days ago.
Mr A
19/10/2012, 9:13 PM
Ah Mr_Parker. I have no doubt you know the rules well. But this is LOI licensing. Anything could happen.

And the last club that got in despite missing the deadline were also from across the border.
NeverFeltBetter
19/10/2012, 9:48 PM
So just who has expressed an interest? Tralee? Cobh? Carlow? Anybody? Nobody?
nigel-harps1954
20/10/2012, 7:45 PM
Would happily take Newry in. They'd be a nice addition to the league and a new ground to visit.

Be great to have 4 or 5 teams added, but who realistically is able?
culloty82
21/10/2012, 7:28 AM
So just who has expressed an interest? Tralee? Cobh? Carlow? Anybody? Nobody?

Tralee must be sticking with the KDL - there's nothing on the Dynamos website (http://traleedynamos.com/wordpress/) that suggests they've applied.
El-Pietro
21/10/2012, 2:14 PM
rumours:

Newry, GUST, Fanad and as unbelievable as it sounds.... Cherry Orchard
culloty82
21/10/2012, 3:48 PM
Re: Newry - I thought UEFA only allowed Derry into the LoI as an exceptional circumstance because they couldn't play any Irish League clubs, so even if another NI team wanted to play in the Republic, it wouldn't be permitted?
TonyD
21/10/2012, 4:41 PM
rumours:

Newry, GUST, Fanad and as unbelievable as it sounds.... Cherry Orchard

That's just mental. :shock: Can't happen.
A face
21/10/2012, 4:44 PM
That's just mental. :shock: Can't happen.

How good are they now? LSL doing well?
NeverFeltBetter
21/10/2012, 4:47 PM
Cherry Orchard? Really? I know they're pretty decent for their level and have produced some good players. But how many do they get in their matches? How competitive could they be expected to be?
NeverFeltBetter
21/10/2012, 4:51 PM
How good are they now? LSL doing well?

http://www.lsl.ie/LeagueTables_1213.aspx

4th with two games in hand after 8 games?
El-Pietro
21/10/2012, 4:56 PM
so what I heard about Cherry Orchard is that they fed up of having players poached for the U19 league and so they applied to enter but were told they couldn't have an U19 team unless they applied for an LOI team as well.
El-Pietro
21/10/2012, 4:59 PM
Re: Newry - I thought UEFA only allowed Derry into the LoI as an exceptional circumstance because they couldn't play any Irish League clubs, so even if another NI team wanted to play in the Republic, it wouldn't be permitted?


why would it be a big deal , look at the amount of clubs from Scotland/Wales playing in English football and vice versa