Barstool facepalm

[mypost]

Do they try to help? Popular opinion seems to that they don't but that's easy to say.

It might be popular opinion, that doesn't mean it's correct.

Everyone is aghast at the state of the economy, not accepting that it was partly their fault it is in it's current state. Popular opinion is it's all the fault of Bertie, Cowen, McCreevy, TD's, Drumm, Fitzpatrick, and a select handful of other individuals, rather than the nation as a whole.

[legendz]

It might be popular opinion, that doesn't mean it's correct.

Everyone is aghast at the state of the economy, not accepting that it was partly their fault it is in it's current state. Popular opinion is it's all the fault of Bertie, Cowen, McCreevy, TD's, Drumm, Fitzpatrick, and a select handful of other individuals, rather than the nation as a whole.

I know all that regards popular opinion, reason I said "but that's easy to say." Have you an answer to the question, do the try to help and can you elaborate a bit on that please?

[Mad Moose]

Actually, that award seems to be a small coffin in a box. Anyone able to make out what's written on it? Probably something celebrating the demise of Irish football as barstoolers embrace corporate clubs from across the sea.

I thought a coffin too :) Seriously though. I've read on the next two pages and still nobody has identified the piece of tat they presented Ole. The only man prepared for that photo is Ole. The rest is chaos and quite honestly hilarious. There'll be factions in the group over the state of that picture.

So you have to imagine the excitement and enthusiasm that went into this. So Ole Gunnar Solskaer is coming to Sligo. We'll have to present him with something. A sod of turf? A miniature coffin?

[PartySaint]

Holy feck, tearing out my hair at the stupidity of a friend of mine, who is absolutely adamant that Harps wouldn't even beat a Donegal League team. That the Donegal League is of a higher standard than the League of Ireland First Division.

The Donegal League....which isn't even anywhere near the best junior league in the country.


I get that a lot, people often tell me (insert Leinster Senior league side) would hammer Pats. Dodge can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't Pats have ever lost to a non league side in a Cup competition

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, yourselves and us are the two main league clubs with that record (not counting clubs who've joined in the past few years).

Whatever about Pat's, when they can't beat us, you know it's nonsense.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I imagine its a common experience everywhere. I've heard Pike Rovers fans insist they're above Limerick FC repeatedly over the years.

[peadar1987]

I imagine its a common experience everywhere. I've heard Pike Rovers fans insist they're above Limerick FC repeatedly over the years.

Because all of their players are clearly playing for the love of Pike Rovers, when they could be earning money doing the exact same thing for Limerick. It's very noble when you stop and think about it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Because all of their players are clearly playing for the love of Pike Rovers, when they could be earning money doing the exact same thing for Limerick. It's very noble when you stop and think about it.
Capitalism corrupts the soul. The freedom from financial rewards means the Pike players are free to express themselves creatively in a way Messi himself could only dream of.

[Dodge]

I get that a lot, people often tell me (insert Leinster Senior league side) would hammer Pats. Dodge can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't Pats have ever lost to a non league side in a Cup competition

Not in the FAI Cup.

Everyone, at every level of football, overestimates how good they are. The lower you go, the higher the over-estimation

[orielabu]

Dundalk are proud to hold the record for losses to non-league opposition in the FAI Cup [six if you’re asking].
The Leinster Cup record is even better…minnows (giant-killers?) have clocked up ten victories!!
Beat that!

[TheBoss]

Pre-season game and........ you have to pay to see it online.

http://www.tv.manutd.com/

[NeverFeltBetter]

What's that have to do with barstoolers?

[marinobohs]

Because all of their players are clearly playing for the love of Pike Rovers, when they could be earning money doing the exact same thing for Limerick. It's very noble when you stop and think about it. maybe they prefer to be 'Pikeys' than 'Lims' :D

[Charlie Darwin]

http://ww2.buttonfactory.ie/uploads/media/gigs/1044566_642852162409433_1833989729_n.jpg

[Jofspring]

You have to admit though it's great to finally have a home Liverpool game to go to.

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought Celtic were at home? Or are both we and them at home?

[peadar1987]

Oh we're both at home. It'll be great to see the two most Irish sides ever finally play in Ireland!

[Jofspring]

I thought Celtic were at home? Or are both we and them at home?

It's basically the same as when AC Milan play Inter Milan. Home vs home. A win win situation for the whole of Ireland.

[hedderman]

I think the existence of this thread shows a big problem for the League. When can we get away from the attitude of "No one likes us, we don't care" to recognising that "barstoolers" can range from people who "wouldn't watch that shíte if it was on in my back garden" to the cohort of people who could be encouraged to go to games if the quality of stadia was improved?

[peadar1987]

I think the existence of this thread shows a big problem for the League. When can we get away from the attitude of "No one likes us, we don't care" to recognising that "barstoolers" can range from people who "wouldn't watch that shíte if it was on in my back garden" to the cohort of people who could be encouraged to go to games if the quality of stadia was improved?

The way I see it, true barstoolers are only those in the first category. "Die hard" Man City fans in it for the glory and the association, however tenuous, with success and glamour. The sort who'd never dream of darkening the turnstile at an LOI ground.

For me, the quality of stadia is a pretty poor excuse anyway.

All a football ground actually needs to be good are enough seats, relatively unobstructed lines of sight, enough clean toilets (okay, the Carlisle is shocking in this respect), reasonable food nearby or in the ground, turnstiles and ticket offices you don't have to queue for an hour to get through, and ideally a roof over enough of the stand for people to shelter when it gets rainy. Many LOI clubs already have most of that, and the ones who have all of it already (Tallaght, Dalyer, the Showgrounds, Turner's Cross, even the Belfield Bowl) are hardly bursting at the seams, in spite of being of just as good a quality as any ground I've been to in England or Scotland, only a bit smaller.

What people mean when they say the grounds aren't good enough is either they live in Drogheda, or that they want a fully-covered, 30,000 seater stadium with big screens, executive suites, fancy advertising everywhere, aeroplane seats in the dugouts, and floodlights stolen from NASA. Things that make little to no practical difference to the average fan's experience of the game they're watching, but things that do add to the glitz and glamour they crave.

[nigel-harps1954]

Press conference ahead of the 'Dublin Decider' scheduled for tomorrow night at 7:30pm.......


http://facepalm.hu/picard.jpg

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Sure there's nothing else happening in Irish soccer on a Friday evening.......

As good as when they put a press conference on at the same time as we were playing Pats in what turned out to be the winning of the league.

As an aside wasn't one of their points about Limerick not being allowed to play Barcelona that there couldn't be a game on that clashed with the same day as a League of Ireland game. I'm surprised we weren't made change the date of our game tomorrow.

[Jofspring]

I think they said it couldn't even be on the same weekend as LOI matches not to mind day. Also I think it was Athlone and Wexford youths in a mid table dead rubber of a game that it was clashig with and couldn't take away from the crowds at a league of Ireland game.

[Bosco]

I think the existence of this thread shows a big problem for the League. When can we get away from the attitude of "No one likes us, we don't care" to recognising that "barstoolers" can range from people who "wouldn't watch that shíte if it was on in my back garden" to the cohort of people who could be encouraged to go to games if the quality of stadia was improved?

100% agree with you there. It's about time Loi fans realised that lecturing and insulting the potential market of which we should be trying to attract at every opportunity isn't going to help things at all. I know this because I also did it for years and years, telling anyone that would listen to me about how they weren't real football fans etc etc. Presumably everyone on this forum gained an interest in Loi through a friend or relative at some stage and presumably that friend or relative before that wasn't slagging them off constantly.
You can see it on any normal football forum, a "barstooler" makes some kind of comment, say about the Dublin Decider and sure as night follows day a Loi fan jumps in with a tirade of abuse, “You should be supporting your local team”, “The Fai don’t care about Football”, “You’re a customer, not a supporter”! We all know this and it may all be true but it’s not going to change people’s mindset if they don’t fully understand it.
The same ****e has been going on on football forums for the years and years and years, rarely anyone makes any kind of new point. It’s tiring and I can’t see how it’s ever going to attract new fans. It does sadden me that there isn’t the same football culture in Ireland as in the rest of Europe but bullying people into it isn’t going to change anything. People will only get into something if they want to themselves, not because they are being told what to do by a small minority. Therefore, it is up to Loi fans to make it attractive for people.
Naturally a lot of my friends are “barstoolers”, they enjoy talking about football as do I. I don’t shove Loi constantly down their throats but obviously still mention it from time to time and they would all be well aware of my interest in it. Over the years, some of them have tagged along to a game at some stage, some of them have enjoyed it and some of them didn’t. Some still come to games regularly, even though they wouldn’t have had any interest before, even when we were winning things. I never did anything to force them to come, I would just casually ask if they want to come along and slowly but surely some of them did. Some only really started getting into it the year we were relegated and then slowly lost interest after we went down. They regularly say to me that they’ll come back if we go up again which is fine by me, I’d be delighted if they came back. I’m not going to lecture them about how they should be going to games now. They only really started to get into it before we went down and this graveyard of a first division isn’t the most attractive past time for those only starting to gain an interest.
Although the excuse that “people can spend their money on whatever they like” is regularly used by people who don’t support the Loi, the reality of it is that it is true. The mindset and commitment of being a football fan and going to games regularly doesn’t just happen from attending one or two games. We all got into the Loi because we started going to games and enjoyed it and were more than happy to go again, not because we were sick of being abused by a minority of people and decided to give in.

[hedderman]

The way I see it, true barstoolers are only those in the first category. "Die hard" Man City fans in it for the glory and the association, however tenuous, with success and glamour. The sort who'd never dream of darkening the turnstile at an LOI ground.

For me, the quality of stadia is a pretty poor excuse anyway.

All a football ground actually needs to be good are enough seats, relatively unobstructed lines of sight, enough clean toilets (okay, the Carlisle is shocking in this respect), reasonable food nearby or in the ground, turnstiles and ticket offices you don't have to queue for an hour to get through, and ideally a roof over enough of the stand for people to shelter when it gets rainy. Many LOI clubs already have most of that, and the ones who have all of it already (Tallaght, Dalyer, the Showgrounds, Turner's Cross, even the Belfield Bowl) are hardly bursting at the seams, in spite of being of just as good a quality as any ground I've been to in England or Scotland, only a bit smaller.

What people mean when they say the grounds aren't good enough is either they live in Drogheda, or that they want a fully-covered, 30,000 seater stadium with big screens, executive suites, fancy advertising everywhere, aeroplane seats in the dugouts, and floodlights stolen from NASA. Things that make little to no practical difference to the average fan's experience of the game they're watching, but things that do add to the glitz and glamour they crave.

I see your point but I don't think that people come up with excuses not to go to League of Ireland matches, they actively need to be encouraged by the clubs and their fans. I've brought people along who've added maybe a €150 euro over a couple of seasons to League of Ireland income. It's not a lot but it could add up.

One thing that písses me off about the Brandywell is that practically every seat in the Southend Road stand has a "Reserved" sign on it. I'm reasonably sure that the club hasn't sold nearly 2,000 season tickets but I can't be certain, e.g. at the Sligo Rovers game I had to move seats just before kickoff because someone told me it was their seat so enough seats can be an issue at League of Ireland games can be an issue even if our attendances can be poor.

As for clean toilets they're obviously an issue too. I'd love to know why there are so many (good-looking) female fans at GAA games throughout the summer (and to a lesser extent during the National League) while it appears that League of Ireland crowds are almost exclusively male.

[CityRebel]

I see your point but I don't think that people come up with excuses not to go to League of Ireland matches, they actively need to be encouraged by the clubs and their fans. I've brought people along who've added maybe a €150 euro over a couple of seasons to League of Ireland income. It's not a lot but it could add up.

One thing that písses me off about the Brandywell is that practically every seat in the Southend Road stand has a "Reserved" sign on it. I'm reasonably sure that the club hasn't sold nearly 2,000 season tickets but I can't be certain, e.g. at the Sligo Rovers game I had to move seats just before kickoff because someone told me it was their seat so enough seats can be an issue at League of Ireland games can be an issue even if our attendances can be poor.

As for clean toilets they're obviously an issue too. I'd love to know why there are so many (good-looking) female fans at GAA games throughout the summer (and to a lesser extent during the National League) while it appears that League of Ireland crowds are almost exclusively male.
You should see the beours at the Cross lad.

[nigel-harps1954]

I think in bigger grounds reserved seats should be a way forward. The likes of Tallaght, Tolka, Turners Cross and other all seaters should have reserved seating. Tickets should be printed for each seat too. It's the little bits of professionalism that add to it all, plus, if you're paying for a season ticket, it'd be nice to have your own seat to go with it.

[peadar1987]

I don't think threads like this are ever going to drive people away from the league.

I know I vent here, but when I'm talking to actual barstoolers (several members of my family and friends among them), I'm always polite, I suggest they might come down to the Carlisle with me next time I'm home, have a few pints and watch the football. When you put it like that, it's surprising how many will actually agree to come with you, if only for the pints aspect! Even the ones who politely decline get away scot-free (except possibly being invited again).

However, the ones who are rude and disparaging when you suggest they might attend an LOI game, the ones who make any excuse, about the ground, the standard, the imaginary crowd problems, the one junior team they know who'd win the LOI and qualify for the Champion's League group stages if only they could be bothered to enter, they're lost causes anyway, and me having a rant at them for being rubbish football fans isn't going to reduce the infinitely small chance they'll ever attend an LOI game any further.

[Eminence Grise]

100% agree with you there. It's about time Loi fans realised ... the potential market of which we should be trying to attract at every opportunity.

Pardon the selective editing of your quote, Bosco, but that jumped out at me when I read what you wrote.

I know it's an unreliable headline from joe.ie (http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affairs/g-old-trafford-irish-fans-spend-e80-million-on-premier-league-travel/ - being the site it is, there may be a few images that some would find NSFW) but if it's right, Irish fans did spend €80 million going to England for games in 2011. I don't know if that includes Championship and below, and Scotland, but it gives some idea of the value of the market that clubs here should be tapping into. That's something that has been missing from the debate, here and elsewhere - quantifiable market information.

Most of the barstooler versus real fan thing is just an abstract ideological or philosophical debate or, more accurately, m1ckey measuring on a particularly drunken stag (hands up who among us... OK that would be nobody!:embarrassed:). That kind of 'my club's better than yours because it's here or in the UK' is just panto BS. Oh, yes, it is!

Clubs need to sit down and work out how they're going to get a slice of that €80,000,000 pie. Of that total, a good chunk is spent by die-hards who won't be shaken from their support of a British club. Fair enough: I'd rather they watched live football somewhere than never at all. But there has to be a sizeable amount that is the occasional fan, birthday/Christmas presents, stags, boys' weekends away and so on, and that's the slice to target. 1% of €80m averages out at €40,000 to each club. Ultimately, it's going to be nothing more than an old-fashioned business plan with both marketing and PR campaigns that will do it. A squirt of bleach in some of the lavvies wouldn't go astray, though!

[danthesaint]

I think in bigger grounds reserved seats should be a way forward. The likes of Tallaght, Tolka, Turners Cross and other all seaters should have reserved seating. Tickets should be printed for each seat too. It's the little bits of professionalism that add to it all, plus, if you're paying for a season ticket, it'd be nice to have your own seat to go with it.

Don't think I'd like that, the freedom of being able to move around to other parts in the ground is a great part of being a fan, I can understand it in UK etc...but not here it would ruin it for me.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, agree with that alright.

[DannyInvincible]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/113_zps4b84b28e.jpg

[ger121]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/113_zps4b84b28e.jpg

I was to the left of that flag. Most bizarre match I've ever attended. Was sitting there thinking, am I in Ireland or England/Scotland. Where else would you get a sellout crowd for 2 foreign teams, where the vast majority are not from either Country, while at the same time the National Team can't fill the stadium. You'd have to wonder where football will be in this Country in 10 years time, when most people don't really care about local football and the International Team is not fat behind...

[dong]

We are Liverpool?
That's gas.

[Strongbow10]

I was to the left of that flag. Most bizarre match I've ever attended. Was sitting there thinking, am I in Ireland or England/Scotland. Where else would you get a sellout crowd for 2 foreign teams, where the vast majority are not from either Country, while at the same time the National Team can't fill the stadium. You'd have to wonder where football will be in this Country in 10 years time, when most people don't really care about local football and the International Team is not fat behind...

jaysus you are slagging people for attending a game that you actually attended yourself?

you must have been dragged in there kicking and screaming

[MeathDrog]

Thought the funniest moment of the game was the disallowed goal for Liverpool being celebrated by thousands of barstoolers for about 10 seconds only to realise that the game had restarted with a free kick out. Even the PA man announced the scorer. Embarrassing but funny stuff.

[Jofspring]

Thought the funniest moment of the game was the disallowed goal for Liverpool being celebrated by thousands of barstoolers for about 10 seconds only to realise that the game had restarted with a free kick out. Even the PA man announced the scorer. Embarrassing but funny stuff.

When its watched on telly because of all the replays you rarely see a team centre off so that's probably were the confusion came from.

[Mr A]

They do seem to have advertised LOI fixtures at the match. Which is something anyway.

[mypost]

What people mean when they say the grounds aren't good enough is that they want a fully-covered, 30,000 seater stadium with big screens, executive suites, fancy advertising everywhere, aeroplane seats in the dugouts, and floodlights stolen from NASA. Things that make little to no practical difference to the average fan's experience of the game they're watching, but things that do add to the glitz and glamour they crave.

Event Junkies.


I'd love to know why there are so many (good-looking) female fans at GAA games throughout the summer (and to a lesser extent during the National League) while it appears that League of Ireland crowds are almost exclusively male.

Men can tolerate extensive searches, reserved seating, strict segregation, and treated by clubs as a mild inconvenience rather than a welcome customer. You don't get that in bogball, so more women turn up.

[DannyInvincible]

I was to the left of that flag. Most bizarre match I've ever attended. Was sitting there thinking, am I in Ireland or England/Scotland. Where else would you get a sellout crowd for 2 foreign teams, where the vast majority are not from either Country, while at the same time the National Team can't fill the stadium. You'd have to wonder where football will be in this Country in 10 years time, when most people don't really care about local football and the International Team is not fat behind...

What brought you there in the first place?

[avvenalaf]

I see your point but I don't think that people come up with excuses not to go to League of Ireland matches, they actively need to be encouraged by the clubs and their fans. I've brought people along who've added maybe a €150 euro over a couple of seasons to League of Ireland income. It's not a lot but it could add up.

One thing that písses me off about the Brandywell is that practically every seat in the Southend Road stand has a "Reserved" sign on it. I'm reasonably sure that the club hasn't sold nearly 2,000 season tickets but I can't be certain, e.g. at the Sligo Rovers game I had to move seats just before kickoff because someone told me it was their seat so enough seats can be an issue at League of Ireland games can be an issue even if our attendances can be poor.

As for clean toilets they're obviously an issue too. I'd love to know why there are so many (good-looking) female fans at GAA games throughout the summer (and to a lesser extent during the National League) while it appears that League of Ireland crowds are almost exclusively male.

You should have told him/her to f**k off. I'm a season ticket holder at Sligo Rovers and I sit in the same area the whole time but don't have an entitlement to a particular seat. if it's gone, it's gone. On the other hand, the set up with reserved seats at The Brandywell is ridiculous and as for Dundalk?. A friend was made move last season (att 600, 250 Sligo fans) because that was someon'e seat. Turned out the someone was Dermot Ahern!!!

[Charlie Darwin]

So what was the decision in the end lads?

[Ezeikial]

You should have told him/her to f**k off. I'm a season ticket holder at Sligo Rovers and I sit in the same area the whole time but don't have an entitlement to a particular seat. if it's gone, it's gone. On the other hand, the set up with reserved seats at The Brandywell is ridiculous and as for Dundalk?. A friend was made move last season (att 600, 250 Sligo fans) because that was someon'e seat. Turned out the someone was Dermot Ahern!!!



If you sit in a season ticket holders reserved seat in any ground you can expect to be asked to move.

[Schumi]

So what was the decision in the end lads?

Dublin is a part of Scotland now. It was as much as we could have hoped for.

[ArdeeBhoy]

How so?
:confused:

[passinginterest]

Looks like someone was reading this thread;
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/aidan-ohara-real-football-real-fans-real-nonsense-29491347.html

He covers most of the ground covered here many times over.


Yet, rather than complain about the crowds while at the same time dismissing or insulting them as unreal football fans, the question has to be asked about whether there is a genuine desire to see greater crowds at games. If 5,000 suddenly turned up at Dalymount or Tolka Park next week, would the supporters react in the same manner as those who love to discover a music band in small venues but go off them as soon as they become popular among the masses? Would they be happy to have their regular seats taken up by the blow-ins without complaining about where they were five years ago?

[MeathDrog]

Silly argument. 99% of LOI fans would be delighted to see such a gate at their ground.

[passinginterest]

Silly argument. 99% of LOI fans would be delighted to see such a gate at their ground.

Yeah highlighted that paragraph because I think it's the worst part of the article. There seems to be a growing perception that the League of Ireland is a closed off little secret society and new faces are shunned and it couldn't be further from the truth. Although maybe Social media etc. where harcore fans are venting their frustration are actually having a negative impact in putting the idea out there that those with a more passing interest are not welcome?

[avvenalaf]

If you sit in a season ticket holders reserved seat in any ground you can expect to be asked to move.

Season ticket holders at The Showgrounds do not have a reserved seat. First up, best dressed.

[Charlie Darwin]

What nonsense. When Rovers moved to Tallaght, 2,000 new fans turned up out of nowhere and nobody batted an eyelid. Limerick fans seem to have absorbed their 1,000 extra weekly atttendees without taking their ball and going to Pike Rovers.

This is the same trite crap that's trotted out every time there's a big barstooler occasion in Ireland. "League of Ireland fans think X whereas EPL fans think Y, but in fact the answer is somewhere in the middle blah blah blah." Give that man a ****ing PhD.