Barstool facepalm

[marinobohs]

It's all about success at the end of the day. In 1997, I doubt there was such a thing as an Irish Man City fan. The closest it came was an ABU. The people who pretend otherwise are deluded. The Roy Keane fanboys who buy the shirt of whatever new managerial role he's offered are worse than deluded.

Anyone for the last of the Sunderland jerseys (circa 2010) ? Going cheap and lots to choose from. Saw a survey in some English mag that 80% plus of Chelsea ' fans' were not Chelsea fans 10 years ago, shows the glory hunter mentality alive and well.

Reason the 'Irish supporter numbers are in decline is (1) we are a crap team (2) prices, especially for friendlies are far too dear (although this has improved) (3) the non atmosphere of the day trippers delight that constitutes matchday now is offputting to any footie fan (5) John Delaney / Trap / FAI

The Ole Ole brigade that were so lauded in Poland last summer have disappeared back to Bogball/ rugby or whatever the latest trend is.

[peadar1987]

At least two of Waterford United's staunchest supporters are big Stoke fans! Nothing to do with the current long throws and lump-kicking, they would both go back to the 70s/early 80s and both travel to a lot of Stoke games. Some of our other fans would be very regular EPL attendees. I don't mind that - it's the 'check the scores on Sunday' types who would never attend a live game and sneer at the League of Ireland that kill me. I admire any English fan who sticks with their local team even if they also like a big club, e.g. someone from Southport following Liverpool, but also going to their Conference games. That makes sense to me. The more football you see the better. Unfortunately, in Ireland, that tradition isn't as strong and it seems perfectly acceptable to be "a massive football fan" and never actually go to a game - all of which is legitimised by almost every aspect of our media.

Haven't you heard? Delap's gone off to Barnsley, no long throws for Stoke any more!

Anyway, Stoke are far better than we used to be, at home at least. Away from the Brit we're unrelentingly horrible to watch. I really wish Stephen Nzonzi had an Irish granny!

[Charlie Darwin]

The Ole Ole brigade that were so lauded in Poland last summer have disappeared back to Bogball/ rugby or whatever the latest trend is.
They'll be reeling after yesterday. Couple of Dublin GAA games coming up in Croke Park to keep them occupied. They might get Jedward in again if they're lucky.

[BonnieShels]

They'll be reeling after yesterday. Couple of Dublin GAA games coming up in Croke Park to keep them occupied. They might get Jedward in again if they're lucky.

Now now.

[wonder88]

They'll be reeling after yesterday. Couple of Dublin GAA games coming up in Croke Park to keep them occupied. They might get Jedward in again if they're lucky.
Agree, especially after the Dubs win in Killarney. But the lack of support for the Dublin hurlers show how difficult it is to attract the Ole Ole's. Prices still have to come down, be on par with cinema etc to get some of the lost fans back. It is unbelieveable that tickets are 15euro in Tallagh tonight. Same is true for a lot of GAA games, they have lost touch with who their target market should be. Rugby does not have to worry, as their support base are doing just fine these days. Noticed M Fingleton purchased 6 IRFU season tickets just before he resigned at his building society which the Irish state is kindly paying for.

[marinobohs]

They'll be reeling after yesterday. Couple of Dublin GAA games coming up in Croke Park to keep them occupied. They might get Jedward in again if they're lucky.

Whatever do you mean Charlie ? Everyone knows there is no bogball until summer :o

[sligoman]

Us from Glasgow rumoured to be playing we from Liverpool in Lansdowne in August. ARGHHHH

[gufcfan]

Us from Glasgow rumoured to be playing we from Liverpool in Lansdowne in August. ARGHHHH

So, what you're saying is, they're playing with themselves?

[marinobohs]

So, what you're saying is, they're playing with themselves?

WOW ! a real local derby - Liverpool Oirish V Celtic moreOirish :cool: all we need now is decent directions to help the fans find Lansdowne

[ped_ped]

Not so much facepalm as experts on a league after three games, but -

Overheard in a Limerick Chipper:

"Were you out at the match?"

"I was - unfortunately. [laughing] Pure sh!te altogether. Only drew. Against 10 men. Bloody waste of time. Saw them on the telly against Cork as well - no bloody score. And was watching Shelbourne against Shamrock Rovers the week after - another fcuking scoreless draw! The League of Ireland has no finishers, y'see."

[CMcC]

Besides being populated by the 'Big Day Out' sport fan in this country, its also about tradition, stamina, stomach and committment. The typical Irish sports 'fan' doesnt have the tradition, stamina or stomach or is willing to give the committment to supprt their team over a long hard season in all weather, knowing as the vast majority of us do, that our team wont win anything.....again.
Its just not a tradition in this country like it is in other countries. GAA is about supporting your team for a couple of games a season over a short space of time in the summer (compare league vs championship attendances or a Leinster Hurling final vs All Ireland Final attandance). Rugby is about 3 home pool games and possibly a couple of knock out games - what's that...approx 7 or 8 home games a season for the most part? AIL is dead.
Supporting a team through 30 or 40 games a season is a totally different proposition and most couldn't be arsed especially if a perceived better product is being served up to them from the comfort of their sofa or bar stool in their nice warm living rooms or boozers. That's why it will always be alien to most people in this country. That's why being a LoI supporter will always be looked at as a curiousity, an oddity someone to be patronised and patted on the head as if we are all football eccentrics....maybe we are!

[DannyInvincible]

"The League of Ireland has no finishers, y'see."

Nonsense.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/refeld_zps7e050868.png
Stone Cold David McKeon about to unleash a Stunner upon Anthony 'The Rock' Elding after he helped Rock Bottom UCD last Monday evening.

[Acornvilla]

MNS called our ground ''Flancare Park'' on Monday. I'm sure our new sponsors will love that.

[BonnieShels]

MNS called our ground ''Flancare Park'' on Monday. I'm sure our new sponsors will love that.

I still call it the Flansiro. What else can it be?

[Acornvilla]

well if you pay €200,000 odd to have your company name on a stadium, I'm sure you'd hope the media would bother to say its name correctly.

Personally don't like the new name but that has no relevance, there's no excuse for getting it wrong and it defeats the purpose of the deal if the proper name isn't used.

[pineapple stu]

well if you pay 200,00 odd grand to have your company name on a stadium, I'm sure you'd hope the media would bother to say its name correctly.
You'd imagine they'd get the amount correct too. :)

Especially given you went back and edited the post.

[BonnieShels]

I like his new number grouping system. Will it catch on? Only time will tell.

[Eminence Grise]

You'd imagine they'd get the amount correct too. :)

Especially given you went back and edited the post.

200,00?

Continental style numbering = two hundred quid. Sounds about right.:cool:

[Acornvilla]

:D lord thats awful on my part..

I'm no good at judging the size of crowds Ted, but I'd say there's about seventeen million of them out there.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m59btcEl031qleraio1_400.gif

[holidaysong]

I actually went to the bother of Googling the new name for the ground. Wish I hadn't bothered.

[Sean South]

well if you pay €200,000 odd to have your company name on a stadium, I'm sure you'd hope the media would bother to say its name correctly.

Personally don't like the new name but that has no relevance, there's no excuse for getting it wrong and it defeats the purpose of the deal if the proper name isn't used.

I always call it Strokestown Road. I never understand why football fans will use the corporate branding when it comes to grounds and stands instead of the traditional name.

[DannyInvincible]

Believe it or not, some football fans will have no issue with referring to a football ground by its official name, even if that does from time to time involve letting the name of a dreaded sponsor soil the tongue and pass through the lips.

[Charlie Darwin]

Can't wait to visit Sinn Féin @ The Brandywell Park later this season.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Galtee Fuels Park?

[nigel-harps1954]

McDaids Football Special Finn Harps Stadium

[BonnieShels]

McDaids Football Special Finn Harps Stadium

You're not letting this go are ya? :P

[nigel-harps1954]

You're not letting this go are ya? :P

I'll have forgotten about it in a week. Until then...

[howsyourtouch]

I still call it the Flansiro. What else can it be?

it was only flansiro for a short while,strokestown road or mullolagher are both correct!

[Réiteoir]

I actually went to the bother of Googling the new name for the ground. Wish I hadn't bothered.

I quite like it - as it has a hidden link to another old LoI club in Kilkenny City

[legendz]

Not so much facepalm as experts on a league after three games, but -

Overheard in a Limerick Chipper:

"Were you out at the match?"

"I was - unfortunately. [laughing] Pure sh!te altogether. Only drew. Against 10 men. Bloody waste of time. Saw them on the telly against Cork as well - no bloody score. And was watching Shelbourne against Shamrock Rovers the week after - another fcuking scoreless draw! The League of Ireland has no finishers, y'see."
Haha, at least turned up to the game anyway! He might get a spot on MNS after that insightful analysis.

[GUFCghost]

Most people weren't born into loving football homes like you and I.Football became popular in Ireland in an age of television and marketing and so English broadcasters took the opportunity to expand their markets,these are the origins of the "barstooler". :tv:

I don't think the problem is that people are too lazy,I think it's a poor product poorly marketed.

The way too improve the product is a League above the LOI. Not necessarily,I know you guys really don't like provinces/franchises.There could easily be a relegation/promotion system between the LOI and the Celtic/British Isles/whatever league.

People should feel like they have to support this new fanged monster league either.The twitter tag #supportingLOI makes people presume the league is weak and it needs their support,not a good tactic IMO.

The national team is going no where until this domestic mess is sorted.

[ped_ped]

We have a league, flawed and all as it may be. The suggestion to have a Celtic League above it actually disimproves our situation because while four, five or six clubs go into the Celtic League, every other club is now in a 'lower league'.

Regardless of size, there is room for a fully functional league structure with our Premier Division at the top of it. The product that's being marketed needs to be the experience, not the football.

When do the GAA use the spectacle of Gaelic games as their main draw? Never. '80,000 beating hearts' anyone? The tribalism is what's being promoted. And that can work with the League of Ireland too.

[gufcfan]

We have a league, flawed and all as it may be. The suggestion to have a Celtic League above it actually disimproves our situation because while four, five or six clubs go into the Celtic League, every other club is now in a 'lower league'.
Agree completely with this. The same goes for an All-Ireland League. People go on about it, without giving any concrete argument for it, with reasonable arguments for the pros over the cons.

I believe there should be a pyramid. Some would argue that a country of our size cannot support one, but it isn't an argument that stands up imo. Looks at the north as an example. They have 40 teams in the top 3 tiers of their pyramid. The a team from 1 of the 4 regional leagues below the 3rd tier can replace the bottom team in Championship 2, if they meet the league requirements.

This is what we should be working towards. Whether the FAI member clubs would ever vote for such a thing... I don't know.


Regardless of size, there is room for a fully functional league structure with our Premier Division at the top of it. The product that's being marketed needs to be the experience, not the football.
Not sure if I agree or not, but either way, promotion of the league is far from adequate. A change of tactic is one thing, but without the proper backing of the FAI...

[GUFCghost]

We have a league, flawed and all as it may be. The suggestion to have a Celtic League above it actually disimproves our situation because while four, five or six clubs go into the Celtic League, every other club is now in a 'lower league'.

Regardless of size, there is room for a fully functional league structure with our Premier Division at the top of it. The product that's being marketed needs to be the experience, not the football.

When do the GAA use the spectacle of Gaelic games as their main draw? Never. '80,000 beating hearts' anyone? The tribalism is what's being promoted. And that can work with the League of Ireland too.
Obviously one could not ignore the LOI if such a league comes into reality,the Irish clubs promoted to the league wouldn't stand a chance.This is all hypothetical BTW,UEFA don't allow such leagues.

As ridiculous as it is,people feel tribal connections to cities they've never been to.It'll be tough to break those.

[Charlie Darwin]

Obviously one could not ignore the LOI if such a league comes into reality,the Irish clubs promoted to the league wouldn't stand a chance.This is all hypothetical BTW,UEFA don't allow such leagues.
Not strictly true: BeNe League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeNe_League) and the proposed Balkan League (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2013/mar/22/uefa-balkan-league-video). Liechtenstein clubs compete in (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_Football_Association) the Swiss League.

[pineapple stu]

Propositions in recent times for a Czechoslovak league and a Russia/Ukraine league as well.

[legendz]

We have a league, flawed and all as it may be. The suggestion to have a Celtic League above it actually disimproves our situation because while four, five or six clubs go into the Celtic League, every other club is now in a 'lower league'.

What flaws do you see in the league?

I believe there should be a pyramid. Some would argue that a country of our size cannot support one, but it isn't an argument that stands up imo. Looks at the north as an example. They have 40 teams in the top 3 tiers of their pyramid. The a team from 1 of the 4 regional leagues below the 3rd tier can replace the bottom team in Championship 2, if they meet the league requirements.

This is what we should be working towards. Whether the FAI member clubs would ever vote for such a thing... I don't know.
I'm not so sure. Take a look at the intermediate leagues. Connaught will just about get a CSL off the ground, Ulster were looking for additional teams, the Munster senior league is Cork centric and the Leinster league is more or less Dublin centric. Nothing wrong with either being Cork or Dublin centric either if that's the history and traditions of those respective leagues. Limerick clubs have no interest in intermediary leagues.

Ideally it would be great to have some intermediary league to feed into the LoI. The A championship for one reason or another didn't work out. There's been no indication to suggest new clubs are not welcome to apply to join the League or Ireland. If a region or club want LoI football badly enough, they'll work to achieve it.


I think the LoI is healthy enough. The first division probably will take a few years to re-establish itself having lost a few clubs of quality without gaining any new clubs or replacement clubs of quality. I've enjoyed the few games I've taken in in Thomond and seen on TV. The marketing side is the let down. Nationally I'd like to see a promotion campaign using Ireland internationals who've come through the league. Not likely to happen.

[Charlie Darwin]

To add to that, I'd argue that we're possibly too big to have a proper pyramid. It works in the North because the geographical area is less than twice the size of Cork, and a great number of the clubs are based around Belfast. There's no journey the length of Dublin-Galway, let alone Derry-Cork. Plus I'm guessing the IFA don't make it financially unviable for most clubs to even apply for league status.

[Spudulika]

Propositions in recent times for a Czechoslovak league and a Russia/Ukraine league as well.

The Russia-Ukraine joke was a way for Gazprom to mess with figures and for their club to avoid the FFP rules. Was never going to get off the ground. There was a CIS league played in the winter break but the Champs of big countries just sent reserves and won handy.

There was the Baltic League, I don't know if it's going to be back though.

[Charlie Darwin]

Cross-border leagues actually make sense in the post-Comm region. I'd imagine there are a lot of fans out there who really miss the rivalries between the various workers' teams. Perhaps not in Russia/Ukraine considering the distances involved, but certainly in the former Yugoslavia.

[GUFCghost]

I think merged leagues are the only way clubs like Celtic and Ajax could compete in the Champions League,let alone Shamrock Rovers!That's a completely different thread all together though.

[Spudulika]

Agree 100% with you CD, here the only real crowds you get are when one of the associated clubs (Army, Secret Police, Meat Packers etc) play each other. PedPed mentions tribalism in the GAA, this is the only way football can grow, community vs community. We all know that most Junior or schoolboy clubs are too often based around a pub or couple of families, but that can be used to create something bigger.

Cross border leagues can work if there is the right money, marketing and support (from clubs and associations) behind it. You won't get much more tribal than one of the Nordy clubs playing a Republic team, so why not a cross border competition between the Island of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. Start with Champions from each playing in a pre-Euro warm up, even on a home and away knock-out basis with the final and 3/4 place match on the same day. It can be done in a week (Monday, Wednesday, Saturday) and the final venue can be in any of the 4 countries as all teams will play. It wouldn't take much to fund it and the first 2 years will provide a novelty value. And clubs use it to get ready for Europe. Done well it can turn a profit.

But 1 thing - not the Celtic league. We're not Celtic nations, never were, never could be! Next we'll be calling it the united christians against local games league or some such.

[DannyInvincible]

But 1 thing - not the Celtic league. We're not Celtic nations, never were, never could be!

In what sense? I understand our closest genetic cousins are the Basques, but aren't our lingual heritages Celtic? Language can be culturally-defining.

[BonnieShels]

In what sense? I understand our closest genetic cousins are the Basques, but aren't our lingual heritages Celtic? Language can be culturally-defining.

There is a myth of "Celticism" but it was an overarching label of disparate groups that the lablers couldn't quite figure out. To Current Affairs with this.

[legendz]

I thought the Europa League was expanded to so satisfy countries like Scotland and Holland that were discussing a North Atlantic League group stage type competition? Probably a discussion for a different topic but I think the Europa League could benefit from the winner being entered into the Champions League. Delving a bit more on topic, 3rd placed CL group stage teams should not be parachuted in.

[Spudulika]

In what sense? I understand our closest genetic cousins are the Basques, but aren't our lingual heritages Celtic? Language can be culturally-defining.

The myth of celticism came in with opium smoking eejits to counter the industrial revolution. It came back in vogue in the late-80's and especially the "I Keltoi" project of the EEC to "bond" Europe. The "Celts" were the cuddly, hippy, easygoing laid back people who were close to nature etc, so who wouldn't want to join up!

I take my lead from my studies, travels and very importantly from the late-Barry Raftery. It's a brand (as BS says).

[peadar1987]

The myth of celticism came in with opium smoking eejits to counter the industrial revolution. It came back in vogue in the late-80's and especially the "I Keltoi" project of the EEC to "bond" Europe. The "Celts" were the cuddly, hippy, easygoing laid back people who were close to nature etc, so who wouldn't want to join up!

I take my lead from my studies, travels and very importantly from the late-Barry Raftery. It's a brand (as BS says).

I think a lot of Celtic identity stems from the expansion of several empires and cultural movements from the centre of Europe, which pushed the Celtic people culture to the fringes. Nowadays, what we'd have in common with the Galicians, Scots, Bretons and Welsh is more of a shared cultural memory of being on the periphery than a penchant for passage tombs and drawing pretty spirals on things.

[Spudulika]

But the issue Peadar (while you're right to a good degree about cultures being pushed) is that in Ireland there was no celtic invasion, movement or anything of the type. Population numbers remained stable, there was no record of destruction (evidence) there was no difference in settlement types or patterns and the most learned verdict is that there could have been traders, craftspeople or mild intermarrying going on. Remember we look now at Britain as being close, in the Bronze Age (and further back to the Neolithic) there was more of an Atlantic civilization from north west Africa through Iberia to west France to Ireland - with prevailing winds and currents.

There wasn't substantial movement away from (for example) the Roman empire - usually where they went the people were assimilated or enslaved, or killed off. When subsequent movements came from the north or east (goths, huns) those on the borders, including "barbarian peoples" ran into the empire for protection. When it comes to languages, if we were truly speaking a "celtic" language, we would be speaking a dialect of german.

Many years ago I was at a site in Germany, a massive hillfort, which my friends (also archies) were saying - it's celtic. Celtic was far preferable than germanic.

[DannyInvincible]

The myth of celticism came in with opium smoking eejits to counter the industrial revolution. It came back in vogue in the late-80's and especially the "I Keltoi" project of the EEC to "bond" Europe. The "Celts" were the cuddly, hippy, easygoing laid back people who were close to nature etc, so who wouldn't want to join up!

I take my lead from my studies, travels and very importantly from the late-Barry Raftery. It's a brand (as BS says).

Have you read Eric Hobsbawm on the invention of tradition? He was of a similar persuasion and I did find his writings and examples fascinating, but whilst some traditions may develop "more organically" or "more authentically" than others, all traditions and folk-cultural myths are invented to some degree in the sense that they are humanly-created. How do you distinguish between the "authentic" or "natural" and the "invented"?

What is our national language if it is not Celtic? Is, say, the Book of Kells mere deceptive hype?

[Fivesilver]

Phew - for a moment there I was afraid this thread was going to stray off topic.