The Steve Staunton Discussion thread [Archive] - Page 17

Guts&Glory

16/10/2007, 1:14 PM

[QUOTE=citizenerased;791263]Here we go again the poor plight of the LOI fan get off your high horse, whats wrong with 'gaelic heads' at games, are they not entitled to support their country?!?
..QUOTE]

Thats write, sorry the football fans who watch their clubs week in week out should be ignored by their national association....forgot that rule!!

I suppose the gaelic heads are the true sunshine supporters of sport, as even cluxton said himself...finally a Gelic rep has admitted it.

League Game attendances rubbish...summer championship games and there is not enough tickets to keep the plebs happy.

qutus

16/10/2007, 1:26 PM

Would you like to aid me in social experiment? Sorry to bring up old news but I would like to know peoples opinions on Stan...sad I know! I am having a debate with a Redneck John Delaney/Stan backer and would like him to see this thread progress. This Stan backer has a neck like a jockeys ******** so I would like him to get a perspective on what the real fans think!

So I need your opinions on 2 things:
1) What are the good things Stan has done in his tenure so far?
2) What are the mistakes he has made selection wise in this Campaign(ideally with specifics - who he did not play? who he did play out of position? the game involved home/away)

Ta

Docboy

16/10/2007, 1:50 PM

I thought that the LOI fans wanted to congregate together so as to create a better atmosphere. And in quite a lot of stadia the home/vocal support tend to be positioned behind the goals.

IMO I prefer watching games from these vantage points where you are at least with like-minded individuals rather than high up with the corporate tag-alongs.

RogerMilla

16/10/2007, 1:51 PM

Stuttgart88

16/10/2007, 2:01 PM

To answer question 2:

Kilbane & O'Shea in CM in Stuttgart. Steven Reid RHM where he has always been poor.
Not calling up Carsley prior to Cyprus
Kilbane & Ireland in CM in Cyprus
No Hunt starting against Czech Republic.
No Andy Reid in Slovakia. I can't remember why Hunt didn't play. If he was available he should have.
Picking McGeady in Czech Republic having had a terrible game in Slovakia.

I'm not fussed about Finnan at LB in several games. We don't have a left back and O'Shea was given dog's abuse there under Kerr.

What has he done right?

Ditto to Roger Milla's comments above except for 4. I think he has failed to understand how to employ Ireland.
McShane at home to Czech Rep.
Selective successes in the US tour with the young players like Potter, O'Halloran etc.

I think the parameters of the debate are a bit narrow. He can be criticised and given credit (far more the former I think) for more than just team selection.

Lionel Ritchie

16/10/2007, 2:05 PM

will you please knock that off.

onephillyhughes

16/10/2007, 2:09 PM

It would be fair to say Mcshane was played against the Czechs out of necessity, so I don't know if credit is due there?

Giving Gibson his debut would be another one.
Putting faith in Joey O'Brien as a centre half.
Dropping Kenny and Andy O'Brien.

bad

Making Keane captain.
Dunne not being given captaincy.
Reid on the right of midfield while O'Shea played central in Stuttgart.
No real central midfielder in Cyprus.
Paddy Kenny.
The whole left hand side in Slovakia.
Not starting Hunt in those games.
Substitutions in general.
Bringing Douglas on in Bratislava.
Joe Lapira.
His handling of the media in general. Although thats just the mans nature, he's blunt and he's dull, that won't change.
Employing the f*cking pr*ck of a security dude. His heavyhandedness when fans were trying to get photos of the players leaving the hotel in Bratislava was an absolute disgrace. Why am I blaming this on Staunton? :D

John83

16/10/2007, 2:09 PM

The protests got a little mention on 2TV yesterday (I was off work sick)
Yer man Aidan Power and the sports wan were on about a great crowd
at the game despite the talk of a black shirt protest.

He claimed that fans on about protesting are not real fans and they should
get behind manager and team ... or something like that.
It's so sad that some people think 'fan' means someone who will take any amount of **** and not complain about it.

RogerMilla

16/10/2007, 2:11 PM

Giving Gibson his debut would be another one.
.

sorry philly i'd have that one in the minus column....

onephillyhughes

16/10/2007, 2:12 PM

Really? I think he'll be a decent player, hopefully for us mind!!

gspain

16/10/2007, 2:12 PM

Tickets on sale for FAI HQ today so not a sell out yet..

They have the away allocation for sale which is approx 6,000. I assume Cyprus won't bring more than a couple of hundred.

The away allocation was also offered to those on the BB waiting list so with those sales and there are always walkup sales too the game will be almost sold out.

However the clear lack of interest on saturday must send out warning bells to the FAI. If our decline on th epitch is to continue into the next campaign then there will be revenue issue. If there is a drop in BB and ther eis no decent top side with a big tv market in the draw then the FAI will realise that we have to qualify to make serious money and they will probably pay off Stan.

Stan will not walk as he is at least smart enough to know he will never ever ever be offered a manger's job again.

RogerMilla

16/10/2007, 2:15 PM

Really? I think he'll be a decent player, hopefully for us mind!!

dont get me wrong , i do too , but he was not the man to send on against slovakia

onephillyhughes

16/10/2007, 2:17 PM

dont get me wrong , i do too , but he was not the man to send on against slovakia

Definately agree, I was referring to the friendly in Denmark though.

carloz

16/10/2007, 2:21 PM

ok i'm going to play this game. I am not a stan fan but i will list some positives. negatives i'm sure loads of people will fall over themselves to list.

1 Unbeaten at home in the campaign ( so far!)
2 good selection of joey o'brien at CH for german game.
3 except for the disaster in Cyprus the team was very mean defensively.
4 tactically moving steven ireland to the centre where he did damage to opposition.

thats it , and my brain hurts from wracking
1. We drew the matches against our big two challengers, teams we had to beat. IMO we lacked a killer instinct and Stans interviews after match only gave the impression he was happy with a draw at home, which he never should be

2. He stumbled into that. Due to selecting only three fit central defenders(including one suspended) he was fairly limited with his choice. It was between him and Bruce. I would hardly compliment him on that choice.

3. Id have to agree with that, with the exception of of 15 mins in Slovakia.

4. S.Ireland was woeful against the Cyprus and Slovakia in central midfield. After the cyprus debacle Stan should never have let him near central midfield again, he disapears

Id agree with Stuttgart, America was a positive for him

My main complaints about the man
1. Constantly on the defensive in interviews, which in my mind shows he knows he is out of his depth
2. Somehow thinking he knows more than Rafa Benitez by playing on of Europes best right backs at left back
3. Not picking form players ie Hunt
4. Not recognising his mistake early enoug ie playing McGeady aginst the Czechs when he was woeful aginst Slovakia. Playing Ireland in central midfield when he is not cut out for it
5 Not picking Andy Reid against Slovakia was a dreadful decision. He makes the team tick and the fact that Stan blames the pitch for him not playing is laughable, especially when McGeady played the whole game
6 Baffling substitutions, see Slovakia away
7 Constantly picking a player in the squad that can in no way justify his place. Nobody can argue that Alan O'Bien deserves to be in that squad.
8 Complete lack of a plan B on match day
9 The embarressing fiasco over Carsely and his exclusion from early squads
10 his dreadful post match interviews, away to San marino being the perfect example
11 Continously claiming he is on a learning experience. the irish team is not a ****ing place for a manager to get his damn experience. i cringe every time he says this
Im sure there are more, i will edit when i have more time
12 Joe Lapira. not much else to be said
13 His back room staff. he has said that McDonald is a 'world class' coach. the guy is a Villa reserves coach, pretty damn far from World class

SUB of the day

16/10/2007, 2:32 PM

Swings and roundabouts.
Greece and Croatia and Finland, whens our bloody turn on the Swing? With Stan in charge, not anytime soon

Bottle of Tonic

16/10/2007, 2:34 PM

This one is definitely debateable but I thought/hoped when he was appointed that he'd bring back a little bit of joy/pleasure in playing for the green jersey in the players.
Kerr's famous professionalism and attention to detail was required (but to a certain extent I think this fact and his appointment was a suck up to Roy Keane and the Saipan fall-out)but I always felt during his tenure that the players didn't particularly enjoy going on Ireland duty. I don't know why maybe it was little things like Carr announcing his retirement at 29 and players pulling out of matches left right and centre.
I hoped as one of the 'old boys' we'd get a bit of spirit back but he's been shown up to be a bumbling fool of a manager tactically and no amount of spirit or camaraderie in the camp can compensate for that.
So as a positive maybe allowing players to want to play for Ireland again, but I think he's wrecked that again now.
Wouldn't disagree with any of the negatives. There's scores of them and have taken up countless pages on foot.ie

BradyIsMyHero

16/10/2007, 2:37 PM

Good things:

Bit of spirit to the team (unlike Kerr)
Joey O'Brien at centre back
(Finally) picking Lee Carsley and sticking with him
Giving Miller the heave-ho
Great for bits on Gift Grub
highlights Delaney's inadequacies

Not so good things
Robbie Keane as captain
Failure to pick Lee Carsley initially
Cyprus away
San Marino away
Slovakia away
Daft subs against Slovakia - Jonathan Douglas / Gibson
Lack of target man for Robbie Keane
John O'Shea's numerous costly mistakes
Inability to deal with Stephen Ireland
Failure to pick Andy Reid for earlier games
Idiotic press statements (too numerous to mention)

reder

16/10/2007, 2:48 PM

Good things:
Bit of spirit to the team
Picking Lee Carsley and sticking with him

Not so good things
Robbie Keane as captain
Team formations and player selection
Failure to pick Lee Carsley initially
Cyprus away
San Marino away
Slovakia away .. and our football in general.
Substitutions throughout his tenure.
Failure to pick Andy Reid for earlier games
Inability to interact with the media.
Stubborness to stick with the job even though he is not good enough at this moment in time.

jbyrne

16/10/2007, 2:49 PM

Finland

am i missing something here? what have they ever done in international football? this is foot.ie not curling.ie

jbyrne

16/10/2007, 2:52 PM

However the clear lack of interest on saturday must send out warning bells to the FAI

id say lots of countries would love our lack of interest. id imagine the 67,000 there was probably 2nd or 3rd biggest attendance at the weekend for a qualifier

Rebel11

16/10/2007, 2:57 PM

At least they still have a chance of Qualifying unlike us with Super Stan in Charge

anto1208

16/10/2007, 3:05 PM

Andy Reid's performance on saturday made nonsense of Stan's refusal to play him even for 5 minutes in Slovakia.

Andy reid is over weight and has been shocking this season at club level

Are you for real???

Yea you will get the people that keep coming out with well he plays a right back at left back and a left back at right back :rolleyes: John o shea is a center back/ right back but just because UTd played him out of position a few times people reckon he is a left back, Any way it makes no difference ive played on the left and being right footed it made little or no difference if you have small strikers its a good idea to have your full backs go inside rather than outside . As crossing from the byline to small strikers is pointless . But things like that arent taken into consideration by the boo boys .

The rest of his teams have been chosen for him by injuries / suspensions etc .

And also its not Stans Fault that John O Shea went to sleep twice and cost us our chances of qualifying but still no boo's for him.

carloz

16/10/2007, 3:06 PM

Finland have a very poor team, yet have a chance of qualifying from a much more difficult group than ours. Why? Because they have a manager who has tactical knowledge, and gets the best out of limited players. Roy Hodgson. of course he didnt come out with the bull**** that we 'are in a transition period' that Stauton has been mentioning. Simply put all the young lads that have come through in Stans tenure would have came through even if we had a good quality manager. Doyle, Long, McShane, J. O'Brien are all playing Premiership football. it doesnt take a gfantastic manager to realise they should have been called up

Noelys Guitar

16/10/2007, 3:23 PM

If Stan was sacked tomorrow which other team would have him as their manager? aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Exactly!

Scram

16/10/2007, 3:37 PM

thats bad form. Ok let them know after the match or something but to just boo a guy who has 100+ caps for Ireland. Wrong. I want him out ASAP but I would never boo the man. Disgraceful

I would not have booed him before the Slovak and Czeck games but with his pig ignorance in insisting he is right with his dreadful errors and everyone else wrong has I'm afraid lost him the right not to be booed. Supporters pay good money to travel to games home and away, he is being paid �450k p.a. Pay me that money and bo me all you want, but I would expect to be fired if I did not do my job.

No other country's fans would put up with this.

carloz

16/10/2007, 3:44 PM

No other country's fans would put up with this.

thats the damn important point here. no other country at all would put up with this, so why in Gods name do we have to. We have been given a guy that is embarressingly out of his depth, and yet it looks like we will have to put up with it for two more years. Delaney probably looked at the example of Klinsmann and Van Basten and got excited. But they were different sort of players to Stan and it was easy to see that both of them would become manager.

Armando

16/10/2007, 3:49 PM

[QUOTE=anto1208;791828]Andy reid is over weight and has been shocking this season at club level
QUOTE]

:confused: Have you even seen him play. He is having a great season as Charlton captain.

...And this weight thing is getting boring now. Are you equating his weight to his fitness levels? He was Irelands fittest player against the Germans, never let up for the full 90 mins.

qutus

16/10/2007, 3:58 PM

Thanks all - Keep 'em coming!

Ireland4ever

16/10/2007, 3:59 PM

Has there ever been a point in Irish football where this many fans wanted the manager out. Does anybody have any faith that this man is capable of turning things around and having a good stab at getting us to S.Africa in 2010? I don�t think so. I would be really interested to know is there anymore than 10 fans on this site who want him to remain? Delaney only persists with him because he is his mate. This is what�s most frustrating; if Kerr had done some of the things Stan has done so far he would be gone along time, so why Stan should be treated any different? Delaney ya C***! � Apologies for the last remark but the more I think about it the more p*ssed off I get!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH

Ireland4ever

16/10/2007, 4:01 PM

Andy reid is over weight and has been shocking this season at club level

Are you for real, he is having a great season. At the start of the season Alan Pardew gave him the captaincy to try and entice him to stay for the season and help them get back to the premiership. Thats how much he rates him.

Aldini98

16/10/2007, 4:03 PM

Good Things

Improving the moral, initially.
Playing Carsley again

Bad Things

Inability to pick a team properly.
Inability to get on with the press.
Inability to tell Robbie Keane to f**kin stay up front and stop getting in the way in midfield.
Sticking with Keane as captain.
Douglas, eh not good enough.
Inability to handle the 'stable' Stephen Ireland.
His we always play well in March ****e he came out with.
His subs against Slovakia.
His (still) lack of experience.
He wont resign because of the wedge.
He looks daft.
His speaking is a cure for insomnia, that and listening to Katie Melua although she is far better too look at.
Joe Lapira, think he played him as a bet.
The whole Stan thing, Robson thinks his name is Stan Staunton FFS!
His treatment of Paddy Kenny.
The learning curve nonsense.
His obvious Yes man credentials, just ask his mate Delaney.
Barely beating San Marino.
Thumped by feckin' Cyprus !
His head.

carloz

16/10/2007, 4:04 PM

Andy reid is over weight and has been shocking this season at club level

What a stupid comment to make. he has been their player of the season so far(and they are second), if not player of the championship. Matt Holland writes for the Daily Mail, he is a team mate of Reids and he said that on two occasions this year Alan Pardew made the whole Charlton team stand up in the dressing room and applaud Reids performance. Hardly what you would do to someone that was 'shocking'. Plus during fitness tests while at Spurs, he was found to be one of the fitest players there. yes he is still slighlty heavy but he has lost weight

Ireland4ever

16/10/2007, 4:09 PM

His we always play well in March ****e he came out with.

Ha, forgot about that one!! this would be funny if it wasnt so god damn depressing :(

Wolfie

16/10/2007, 4:11 PM

thats the damn important point here. no other country at all would put up with this, so why in Gods name do we have to. We have been given a guy that is embarressingly out of his depth, and yet it looks like we will have to put up with it for two more years. Delaney probably looked at the example of Klinsmann and Van Basten and got excited. But they were different sort of players to Stan and it was easy to see that both of them would become manager.

Its an infuriating state of affairs at the moment lads, but sacking Stan will not solve everything.

If Stan was sacked tomorrow we'd be thrown into the tortuous and drawn out process of trawling through the usual suspects of ex players and bargain basement failures who are currently out of work.

This will be the reality of the situation unless there is the highly unlikely event of the FAI having already got someone lined up.

As I've posted before - I wouldn't be surprised if other countries sound their new manager out behind the scenes BEFORE they sack the geezer they want rid of.

The FAI need to be ambitious in who they want to target for the job and do their damndest to get him.

Noelys Guitar

16/10/2007, 4:19 PM

Reid's ball for Keane's first chance is often the type of ball that helps win a tough game. Brilliant piece of vision and perfect weight of pass under pressure from decent opposition. The fact he was overlooked for the Slovakian game due to the "pitch" is just unheard of. The decision of someone who should'nt be the manager of our team.

SUB of the day

16/10/2007, 4:47 PM

citizenerased

16/10/2007, 5:24 PM

Not so good things
No evidence of gameplans in any of the matches(san marino)
Doesnt seem to be at any premier league games
Continious failure include and subsequently start Hunt
Switching Finnan and O'shea
One dimensional predictable tactics
Robbie Keane as captain
never subbing or dropping robbie keane despite consistantly being ineffective
Playing keane as lone striker against wales
Failure to pick Lee Carsley initially
Cyprus away
San Marino away
Slovakia away
Daft subs against Slovakia - Jonathan Douglas / Gibson
Lack of target man for Robbie Keane
John O'Shea's numerous costly mistakes
Inability to deal with Stephen Ireland
Failure to pick Andy Reid in the squad for 1st germany game
making a holy show of the country, kicking the bottle in stuttgart, hiding behind houghton making faces in an interview
Bringin in the untried alan o'brien continiously , whilst leaing out experienced premiership players
Hiding behind bobby robson

I have nothing good to say about the ginger tosser..bar Joey O'brien and Paul McShane

Slim Pickings

16/10/2007, 7:08 PM

:mad:When asked by reporters why Given and fullbacks didn't go forward in injury time, despite an apparent willingness on their part to do so,Stan accepted responsibility saying"obviously we wanted to win it, but I didn't want to risk losing either".....AAAAGGGHHHH 2 mins into injury time in a game we had to win.YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING!:mad:

I was going mad in the stands see Given being held back (not literally of course) by Stan but on hindsight I can understand it. Even if we had beaten Germany we still wouldn't have a chance of geting through. Losing would have been disastrous if we are to finish in third place.
So I'm (kind of) with Stan on this. Now there's a first :)

nui-harp

16/10/2007, 7:45 PM

A positive has to be Stan's ability to find players to play for Ireland....Caleb Folan anyone?:p

danonion

16/10/2007, 8:21 PM

Good:

Bar the Cyprus result we have conceded very few goals.

American Tour gave young players a great experience

Inclusion of Ireland, despite not having proper defensive midfield support for him

Bad:

Questionable tactics such as finnan on the left, O'Shea anywhere on the pitch

Selection of players based on likes and dislikes

Where are they now?? Alienation of Paddy Kenny and Morrison

Alan O'Brien

Douglas

Daryl Murphy

Kilbane at central midfield

Paul McShane

Media handling

viagogo

16/10/2007, 8:22 PM

Why should we not boo him? He is getting paid €450,000 a year to make an absolute joke of us. How else can we get our point across? That game last Saturday was torture and the only reason thats keeping me going to these games is that one day that clown will be gone.

Superhoops

16/10/2007, 8:43 PM

.......The FAI need to be ambitious in who they want to target for the job and do their damndest to get him.

Who is available?
Will they want the job?
How much will they want?
How much should we pay?

Let's assume what we really weant is someone who (a) is a 'top/world class' manager (b) is available and (c) wants to take the job

If there is someone who ticks the boxes (a), (b) and (c), then I would suggest they are likely to want a package worth more than �450k p.a. (a figure who some misguided souls on this forum thinks put Steve Staunton among the top 10 highest paid international managers in the world :confused:).

If we are going to pay that sort of money then surely there must be part of the payment that is dependant on success (performance related pay, a normal type of payment in business these days).

Lets assume for one minute that the person who ticks boxes (a), (b) and (c) appears, but the basis for payment is �350k a year and a �1m bonus for qualifying for the 2010 WC finals, a package worth �1.7m over two years, much more than Steve Staunton is on now and certainly an amount the FAI could afford to pay if we qualified, how many 'top/world class' managers would take on the job if one third of their package is dependant on the players at their disposal?

Not many, I would suggest.

If success at international management level is based on qualification for major finals, then surely their financial reward should be performance related.

I can't imagine any of the top 10 or 20 'top/world class' managers. whoever they may be, taking on such a job where their financial reward is based on the performance of 'average' players which is what we have at the moment.

Charlton was booed, McCarthy was booed, Kerr was booed and now Staunton is booed.

It is about time 'fans' got real?

Noelys Guitar

16/10/2007, 9:06 PM

[QUOTE=Superhoops;792220]Who is available?
Will they want the job?
How much will they want?
How much should we pay?

Let's assume what we really weant is someone who (a) is a 'top/world class' manager (b) is available and (c) wants to take the job

If there is someone who ticks the boxes (a), (b) and (c), then I would suggest they are likely to want a package worth more than €450k p.a. (a figure who some misguided souls on this forum thinks put Steve Staunton among the top 10 highest paid international managers in the world :confused:).

If we are going to pay that sort of money then surely there must be part of the payment that is dependant on success (performance related pay, a normal type of payment in business these days).

Lets assume for one minute that the person who ticks boxes (a), (b) and (c) appears, but the basis for payment is €350k a year and a €1m bonus for qualifying for the 2010 WC finals, a package worth €1.7m over two years, much more than Steve Staunton is on now and certainly an amount the FAI could afford to pay if we qualified, how many 'top/world class' managers would take on the job if one third of their package is dependant on the players at their disposal?

Not many, I would suggest.

If success at international management level is based on qualification for major finals, then surely their financial reward should be performance related.

I can't imagine any of the top 10 or 20 'top/world class' managers. whoever they may be, taking on such a job where their financial reward is based on the performance of 'average' players which is what we have at the moment.

Charlton was booed, McCarthy was booed, Kerr was booed and now Staunton is booed.

It is about time 'fans' got real?[/QUOTE

McCArthy or Charlton for that matter would'nt have been in the world top 100 managers when they were appointed. They both got us to championship finals. Your suggesting that no top manager would take the package you have outlined. How do you know? Delaney never interviewed anybody for the job. He had decided on Stan. Terry Venables stated he was interested in the then open vacancy. Top flight manager whether you like him or not. Leo Beenhaker might have been a real possibility. Again never approached. Two of the people who should have been approached for advice on appointing a new manager were Wenger and Liam Brady. Why not ask Mourinho for advice. Hiddink for advice. That is the way to go. Delaney is a "fan" picking our national manager. And If Stan goes then he will go and get the "world class" manager he promised and I guarantee it will be a big name but again not the right manager for Ireland. Ask the experts.

eirebhoy

16/10/2007, 9:11 PM

Bad:
Paul McShane

What the hell? What a bloody fantastic centre half this guys gonna be imo.

percy

16/10/2007, 9:16 PM

I'd have taken the job if Delaney had offered.... no pressure till qualifiers for world cup... thats more or less what Stan is insinuating in every interview. Delaney is the root of the problem... we don't want this muppet picking the next manager. I think the protest should centre around him alone. I don't agree with booing the team or protesting in any way that would disillusion them any more than they are. Irish fans are the best in the world, proud of our country and how well we have done in the past. Lets keep it that way, but we don't want to suffer the $hite coming from merrion Square any longer.
�70 for a ticket? 10million profit from 1 game alone? 400 people living it up on free food and booze in Croker before the game?.... come on now...

danonion

16/10/2007, 9:39 PM

I know I can't be the only one who doesn't see anything in McShane. He's short, has no pace and is strictly average at reading the game. We are on dire straights if he is going to be considered a decent centre back. His passion and work rate prevent me from cringing when he plays, but if he forges a long term career in the premier league I will be truly surprised

eirebhoy

16/10/2007, 9:50 PM

Put it this way, if I thought he was an average reader of the game I would not be a great fan of his. I think he's a fantastic reader of the game for his age, MUCH better than Dunne was at 21. He's a natural. Not only do I think he'll have a career in the premiership but he'll be a top 10 premiership centre half by his peak. I honestly believe that (Dunne already is imo). It's possible to measure everything about a player except the football brain. You think he has an average one, I think he has an excellent one. It'll be interesting to see how his career goes. :)

As far as McShane the right back goes, I think he's rubbish.