FAI Cup 2018

[sbgawa]

When grounds aren't full the crowd is always less than people imagine.
People sit with spaces between them, and a seats with no one sitting in them are obscured by the people in front.
From a distance a stand can be half empty and look full, hence the constant doubt of figures at different matches all season.
I sincerely doubt Cork decided to screw Bohs out of a few bob, between Keith Longs barbs and this BS it looks a bit petty

[mcgonigle]

.....
2715

Apologies, hard to tell if a Cork fan would know what a decent game of football looks like anymore 😉

[mcgonigle]

I really hope Cork win the cup,the nonsense about they're style of play is tedious and beyond pointless,there's more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes!

I'm shocked a Harps fan could have any empathy for a kick and rush and kick anything in front of you style of football 😱

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Sheppard is a good player and a great servant to Cork but he gets a serious free pass from Cork fans. He shopped himself to Cork's main rivals and requested that nothing be said about it until he had left. I would not be too accepting of that from a Dundalk player. That his plans were outed and he hence changed is mind and the controversy at the time seems to have distracted away from him being quite underhanded about a move. If he was a chap of complete integrity he'd have told his manager that he was faced with a family issue and may have to move clubs. The opporrtunity to point at Kenny's poor attempt at mind games has disguised Sheppard's role in that affair. Not positive trait for a clubs player to have.

If Kenny was a "chap of complete integrity" he'd have kept his mouth shut about it instead of throwing shep to the dogs to try gain a slight edge but don't take off those rose tinted glasses dundalk fans like to put on when their club does anything questionable.

A player wanting to move to be closer to family while also wanting it kept quite to not disrupt his current team's preparation or harm his chances of playing, yeah your right what an awful person.

[EatYerGreens]

The new owner paid off all debts of the previous holding company when he took over so it's not a case of a club winding up leaving a load of debts and starting again. Also the change from Waterford United to Waterford Fc and new crest was a rebranding rather than new club in the owner's words.This is what I've read from people in the know at the club.Lee Power is a shrewd businessman so I don't think he would have allowed a situation develop that would prevent Waterford playing in Europe and missing out on UEFA money when they qualified on the field.

I'm not sure that addresses the fundamental issue though.

UEFA have a rule that new clubs can't play in Europe for 3yrs. So whether debt was repaid or not is irrelevant - it all comes down to whether the current Waterford is a different club than the old.

In that regard, the new name and badge may just have been a 'rebranding' exercise - but in conjunction with a new company it could indeed be considered a new club.

I think the ultimate decision on this may be a delegated one - in which case it would be left to the FAI to decide. I'd be surprised if John Delaney did anything to hinder Waterford in this regard. And he has form regarding Derry City's participation in Europe post its last crash too.

As for Lee Power being a shrewd businessman and not allowing a situation which prevented Waterford playing in Europe - it's possible that he may not have realised. Or even if he did, you have to assume he's in it for the medium to long term. In which case, the risk of losing out on Europe for one year was probably not of a scale to make the entire project unappealing.

[pineapple stu]

Could the FAI really simply make a decision on that matter?

You'd wonder why they didn't let Derry play a few years back for the same reason then.

I would be surprised if the FAI can decide which of UEFA's rules they will/won't apply.

[sidewayspasser]

If there is a new holding company in place since the takeover, then I wouldn't be surprised if UEFA considers Waterford FC as a new club. Maybe it would be advisable for whoever gets 5th place to also apply for a UEFA licence. Just in case...

[David BOHie]

The stand Bohs were in holds close to 2,800. Bohs were taking up two sections and a third was covered off. The sections arent exactly even but lets say they each hold 580. Those three sections would hold ~ 1680. Bohs brought ~700 so thats almost 1000 empty seats right away. The other two sections had a few hundred in them at most. Say 300. Thats another 700 empty. We're at 1700 empty seats just in the St. Annes end.
The attendance was ~4,100. The stadium holds 6,900.
If we assume that my estimate of 1700 empty seats in the St. Annes is roughly correct then we only need to find 1100 empty seats in the other three stands.
The family enclousure was mostly empty last night. At least the block in the corner was. Thats ~100 seats. The top block or two in the Derrynane was empty. Thats another 200 or so. I'm not sure what the individual sections hold there, the stand as a whole holds 100.
Without even looking at the body of those two stands and the Shed we're already at ~2000 empty seats. I only need to find another 800 and I'm confident I could do that if I had photos of the crowd last night.

The world isn't out to get you. You aren't being screwed. The fact that your club thinks our club would screw you out of a few thousand euro says a lot more about your club than it does ours.

I'm a Bohs fan and thought there was a few more at the game myself but then again that probably stemmed from the fact I was in a packed section and looking at 3/4 of the stadium that seemed quite full. I don't think we got the best perspective of the overall attendance. No conspiracy here on my part anyway.

I don't think it was a penalty in Dalyer but I don't think the FAI are out to get us.

It's peculiar how Cork and Dundalk can avoid each other every round for 4 years but there is a 7% chance of it happening which doesn't exactly scream fix.

Not sure where the paranoia from Bohs fans is coming from tbh. Don't tar us all with the same brush :D

Similarly, I think Keith Long's comments weren't in a bitter tone as was suggested. He did say Cork were quite good at what they do and they were expecting it. Cork did play good stuff on the ground but it's not unfair to say Cork hit route one a lot.

[joey B]

I'm shocked a Harps fan could have any empathy for a kick and rush and kick anything in front of you style of football ��

Im not shocked that its a Dundalk fan talking about it again....

[micls]

A 1,000 seat security void for 700 fans? The Gardai in Cork must be really difficult to talk to.

They can be an absolute pain in the ass. But the middle section was just covered by a temporary crowd cover thing. If the game had sold out, they'd have rolled that back once the other areas had sold out, leaving just the green covered seats as segregation. When there's fewer fans, they go with extra de facto segregation.

[mcgonigle]

Im not shocked that its a Dundalk fan talking about it again....

Yeah I suppose it's a bit off topic for the fans of one of the cup finalists to be talking about their opposition! We're hardly the only ones pointing it out, even Cork fans were! There's a lot of winding up going on as well, we need something to help build this game up!

[seand]

I'm finding the Cork as long ball merchants narrative a bit tiresome too. If they were that crude and basic the rest of the league would have figured them out over the past 5 years. There's clearly a bit more to them than that. And Dundalk aren't averse to slinging a big diagonal ball at Hoban from time to time.

[marinobohs]

I'm finding the Cork as long ball merchants narrative a bit tiresome too. If they were that crude and basic the rest of the league would have figured them out over the past 5 years. There's clearly a bit more to them than that. And Dundalk aren't averse to slinging a big diagonal ball at Hoban from time to time.

Firstly, congrats to Cork, the better team on the night especially first half. Too many Bohs players didn’t show up and we were never really in it. I thought Cork were more comfortable than 2-1 to be honest.

Yes, Cork play a very crude style of football but they are very good at it and it works for them. It’s not Corks job to entertain opposition fans or officials. No need for Cork fans to be so defensive- it ain’t broken !

Stadium, (much maligned) stewards and even AGS were all excellent Monday night and contributed to a good occasion (just pity about the score 😒). Even our hooped ref had a decent night.

[osarusan]

What time will the final actually kickoff? Tickets only say 12.00 but that is when doors open, and there is the WFAI final to be played first, right?

Usually about 5 or 5.30?

[sidewayspasser]

Last few years it was 3.30ish.

[rebel]

I'm finding the Cork as long ball merchants narrative a bit tiresome too. If they were that crude and basic the rest of the league would have figured them out over the past 5 years. There's clearly a bit more to them than that. And Dundalk aren't averse to slinging a big diagonal ball at Hoban from time to time.

Thank you seand. Yes we do play a very direct style. Since we lost Maguire we have played it a lot more direct. I actually don't like it (a lot of City fans don't actually) but we can play a bit too. Like you say if all there was to being successful was playing that way then every team would be doing it and beating us but they aren't.

[Nesta99]

Direct or long ball tactics dont get that malagined when its effective and getting results. We only have to look at the fortunes of our international side late 80's and 90's for that. If we were as structured and as effective currently we would probably shrug and accept that we are being pragmatic with limited players available. Nobody has been too critical about Iceland recent trounments bar the Portuguese and Argentinians who struggled with the physical style (basically they just played poorly and spat the dummy). That considered it doesnt take away from the question marks of when a squad is under utilised. Looking at the quality of international squads retrospectively during spells of the Charlton era and even under Trapattoni if they had been allowed play with a different style under less cautious managers then maybe simply qualifying for finals wouldnt have been considered good enough.

For Cork it is less an issue domestically but in Europe I think results could have been better if Caulfield was less cautious and possibly even trusted his players more to be able to compete technically. Of course when talking about LoI teams in Europe the self destruct moments of defending or missing sitters its no wonder managers will often play it cautious.

Certainly against Dundalk this season, especially in Oriel, Cork got at us when they had good passages of sweeping passing moves. When they reverted to being more direct we were better able to cope. A one in a generation player or season like Maguire's and you could have 10 men in your own box and nearly be competative but it covers up the cracks elswhere which have been exposed this season.

Long was frustrated as much because he knew what to expect and that wasnt managed no matter how basic, it was more critical of his own team than a swipe at Cork, well ok maybe it was a double barb. I remember Wenger saying something similar about not defending Delap long throws v Stoke and it was pure frustration at preparing for it and then not dealing with it. The strong wind was a factor too and regardless of what is said in a breeze like that a team that gets the ball in the air and presses high will get a few breaks of the ball. The was nothing stopping Bohs from doing the same. There is certainly a lot of 'give a dog a bad name' with Cork at the moment and if they were playing like Brazil one long ball is all that would be remembered. Lazy journalism maybe and a touch of mischief prompting the indignation at the lack of respect of achievements like winning a double!? It very evident that there is some issue at a club when supporters are totally at odds with each other, plenty calling for a managers head or booing him after winning the double less than a year ago, is runner up but in Europe with a lot to spare and in a cup final regardless of a style of play. Sky sports generation stuff!

[micls]

I think that's fair. There's no doubt we go route one a lot, but neither goal came from a long ball or aimless hoop, and we played some lovely football at times. That said, Cummins was absolutely dominant in the air first half and a high ball to him was working.

Long ball isn't an issue when you're winning the ball or the 2nd ball from it. If you're winning, the opposition complain but really who cares. When you're losing and not performing it get slaughtered. That's the nature of it.

That result felt so much bigger than pretty much any one off result bar the cup final in the last 2 seasons. Last year's cup semi was a bit lifeless. Monday was a proper game with proper excitement and absolute elation when we actually turned up and played for the first time in months. Confidence is an incredible thing

[Nesta99]

I think that's fair.

If i'd posted the same on the Cork forum i'd have had my head handed to me with being accused of having sneaky digs!! lol Its saying it as I see it myself, nobody is going to deeply care when there are trophies in the cabinet or qualifying for World Cups. The '88 Dundalk double was built on 1-0 and shutting up shop and calling the ball boys in, people grumbled a bit but O'Connors job was not in question. That team would give the more recent teams a good run for their money if allowed all out attack. I dont know why Cork fans are not more inclined to roll their eyes at the likes of comments made by Long and just mention who is on the way to the Aviva etc!!

[White Horse]

The '88 Dundalk double was built on 1-0 and shutting up shop and calling the ball boys in, people grumbled a bit but O'Connors job was not in question. That team would give the more recent teams a good run for their money if allowed all out attack.

I watched that team, as you perhaps did, and the problem is that that type of football sucks the life out of a club. That team did not connect with the football following public in Dundalk, and attendances and finances suffered.

People say football is a results business, and that is true. But the reality is more complex, it is also an entertainment business.

[Mr A]

Good to see some reasonable posts above.

Cork played football the right way last year- they won the double and had huge crowds. This year not so much, but this is still the best spell in their history. Fans will always suggest a bit more could be gotten out of a team, forgetting that getting a hell of a lot less is also an option.

[Nesta99]

I watched that team, as you perhaps did, and the problem is that that type of football sucks the life out of a club. That team did not connect with the football following public in Dundalk, and attendances and finances suffered.

People say football is a results business, and that is true. But the reality is more complex, it is also an entertainment business.

I can still hear the commantary on radio 'O'Neill rolls the ball to Malone, Malone back to O'Neill, Malone gets the ball from O'Neill.......and passes back to O'Neill' and so on. I was 10 at the time so didnt get to a whole lot of games to remember the crowds that well. At the time they probably seemed decent enough without much to gauge things by.

[SkStu]

If i'd posted the same on the Cork forum i'd have had my head handed to me with being accused of having sneaky digs!! lol Its saying it as I see it myself, nobody is going to deeply care when there are trophies in the cabinet or qualifying for World Cups. The '88 Dundalk double was built on 1-0 and shutting up shop and calling the ball boys in, people grumbled a bit but O'Connors job was not in question. That team would give the more recent teams a good run for their money if allowed all out attack. I dont know why Cork fans are not more inclined to roll their eyes at the likes of comments made by Long and just mention who is on the way to the Aviva etc!!

Don't forget Caulfield himself had taken some little digs/swipes at Long & Bohemians over the last couple of seasons so if this was Long getting a little bit of revenge (even if it comes off a little as sour grapes) then its fine by me. It raised a smile from me - although not as much as the twitter post I saw:

https://twitter.com/munsderbyfacts/status/1049950051664109568


Bohemians manager Keith Long has continued to criticise the 'agricultural' endeavours of his Cork City counterpart John Caulfield. "We prefer a small community, non-GMO, bespoke urban farming system up here" he told the media.

[Nesta99]

John Caulfield having digs and swipes? Cant be true!!

[micls]

Good to see some reasonable posts above.

Cork played football the right way last year- they won the double and had huge crowds. This year not so much, but this is still the best spell in their history. Fans will always suggest a bit more could be gotten out of a team, forgetting that getting a hell of a lot less is also an option.

We were getting the same criticism last year. The difference being, we were just better at it. The style of football hasnt changed, but the personnel and how suited they are to it has. We have played some lovely football over the past couple of seasons, but it's not the foundation of our teams. Solids defense above all else, high press, hard work and fitness are the base. We only go for the pretty stuff when all of that is 100%.

When we're not playing well, there's less of that.

In terms of crowds, Cork people love teams that win. Start losing crowds will drop. Style of play is very much secondary in terms of our attendances. Although I'm sure if you were floundering lower in the table and playing our style you'd struggle.

[White Horse]

The style of football hasnt changed, but the personnel and how suited they are to it has.

Cork weren't hoofing the ball 60 yards to a target man last year. Maguire was dragging centre halfs wide and running on to angled passes.

The football this year is a throwback to when O'Sullivan was the centre forward.

[micls]

It's funny that people think that. We absolutely were, he was just shorter. Seani was excellent in the air. You're right he also ran the channels, but the balls themselves were the same. The difference being, Seani could get on the end of anything, anywhere in that half. And well, Cummins can't. It's more a case of Seani making them look more like angled passes than hoofs. We're still trying those passes, we're just not getting on the end of them.

Also, last season we were winning more second ball off those balls forward. We lacked that a bit this year and it looks a lot worse and is less effective. Our midfield just hasn't hit the heights of last year, where they dominated every single game first half of it.

[El-Pietro]

We were also much better at set pieces last year. Mainly due to Ryan Delaney. Those goals gave us a comfort zone in many games.

[CityBoy]

When is the 'coin toss' to see who the home team is?

[CityBoy]

What's the prize money like for the cup actually?

[mcgonigle]

What's the prize money like for the cup actually?

Not the 300k you need anyway John 😉

[CityBoy]

Not the 300k you need anyway John 
F*ck off Stephen!

[outspoken]

What's the prize money like for the cup actually?

Is it something like 25k?

[The Donie Forde]

50k last year anyway

[Ezeikial]

To raise the spirits of Cork folk comes the news that Robbie Benson is ruled out of this weeks league match against Bohs and thus remains unlikely to be in the cup final line up.

[oriel]

50k last year anyway

Yes I think I heard 50k is the new figure, almost sure this was announced by the FAI when finals moved to the Aviva. Previously, it was the clubs who took on the costs for the day and it would depend on the attendance if they made any money or in sometimes a loss ! Now the FAI guarantee 50k regardless of the attendance as they cover costs.

I suppose this could work out at close to 300k if a club won it from outside the top 3, as they’d get a euro spot also for it, but when was the last club to do that in the Aviva, possibly Derry ? (edit, I just googled it, they won the cup in 2012), don’t think they finished top 3 that year though.

[dundalkfc10]

To raise the spirits of Cork folk comes the news that Robbie Benson is ruled out of this weeks league match against Bohs and thus remains unlikely to be in the cup final line up.

Prob means McEleney will start CM instead of Number 10.

Cork fans will be delighted as McEleney is not good enough they said numerous times

[micls]

100%. Always happy to see McEleney line up against us, especially in place of someone like Benson.

McEleney has proven he's a cracking player overall, but he has never turned up against us. Its an advantage when he plays. We seem to be his bogey team for whatever reason. That may change at some point, but I certainly don't fear his name on the team sheet.

[EatYerGreens]

Any word yet on how the Cup Final tickets are selling ?

[Charlie Darwin]

Any word yet on how the Cup Final tickets are selling ?
I'd say they'll go through the roof in Cork now they know McEleney is playing.

[micls]

Any word yet on how the Cup Final tickets are selling ?

Seems very very quiet about it online anyway. I'm sure the buzz will build in the next week, but definitely not the chat about it that you'd want.

[oriel]

I would agree McEleney hasn’t always turned up v Cork, but he’s a different player since the summer, his fitness and all round play has improved significantly. He also had a decent 60-70 mins in TC in the 1-0 win in late Sept. I`d fully expect him to line up alongside Shields in the middle for the final, with Murray / McGrath contesting the no 10 slot.

[El-Pietro]

I would agree McEleney hasn’t always turned up v Cork, but he’s a different player since the summer, his fitness and all round play has improved significantly. He also had a decent 60-70 mins in TC in the 1-0 win in late Sept. I`d fully expect him to line up alongside Shields in the middle for the final, with Murray / McGrath contesting the no 10 slot.
I wouldn't read too much into that game in September. Dundalk played well but City didn't turn up at all. I thin confidence was shot to pieces at that point and over the last few seasons our performances have tended to drop off significantly once the title has been decided. I think after the Sligo game our performances against Bohs and Dundalk in particular can be explained at least in part by the belief that the league was over and the intensity dropped out of our performances.

I expect we will perform with a much higher level of intensity in the cup final and there will be less space for the likes of McEleney to operate in. On the other hand, hes due a good performance against us so maybe this is the year he produces one.

I think Dundalk are a better team than us at this point and will probably win the Final, but I think it will be competitive and we will keep it close enough that we have a punchers chance. We can usually limit Dundalk to very few goal chances and we then only need to take one or two of our chances to win. As good as Dundalk were in that game in September, and as bad as we were, we still only lost one nil.

[oriel]

Agreed on the 1-0 scoreline and Cork restricting Dundalk to few chances, but at the same time it was as comfortable a win as Dundalk had in years against Cork, and not sure Rogers actually made a save?

Cup Finals are all about who turns up on the day, Dundalk will be odds on to win, but I think we also were favs last year too and against the league champions, so odds will count for nothing.

[Pablo Escobar]

Agreed on the 1-0 scoreline and Cork restricting Dundalk to few chances, but at the same time it was as comfortable a win as Dundalk had in years against Cork, and not sure Rogers actually made a save?

Cup Finals are all about who turns up on the day, Dundalk will be odds on to win, but I think we also were favs last year too and against the league champions, so odds will count for nothing.

We had a run of 3/4 games where we had little or no chances. A terrible run of form which seems to be lifting a little. I think we'll be within 3.

[micls]

Agreed on the 1-0 scoreline and Cork restricting Dundalk to few chances, but at the same time it was as comfortable a win as Dundalk had in years against Cork, and not sure Rogers actually made a save?

Cup Finals are all about who turns up on the day, Dundalk will be odds on to win, but I think we also were favs last year too and against the league champions, so odds will count for nothing.

First game in Oriel you absolutely battered us (Bradley style) even though it was only a 1 nil. And when there's only even 1 goal in it, there's always a chance.

But yeah, it needs to be a completely different level of performance.

[trevy]

Am I better to wait to buy tickets on the day? I had a look at ticket master the other day and only tickets in the corner available. I presume there will be 20000 to 25000 there so maybe some areas of stadium won't be open.

[outspoken]

Am I better to wait to buy tickets on the day? I had a look at ticket master the other day and only tickets in the corner available. I presume there will be 20000 to 25000 there so maybe some areas of stadium won't be open.

Just be careful buying on the day. I went up to the Ticketmaster van a few year ago and was told they only had premium tickets left even tho the stadium was empty!

[Ezeikial]

John Caulfield has a go at getting some petty verbals started......


Cork City boss John Caulfield blasts Dundalk for signing players they ‘don’t really need’


https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/cork-city-boss-john-caulfield-13502826

After he signed a rake of right backs maybe this is an area of expertise for him

[patrickccfc]

John is out doing a bit of fishing I see. Good man, getting plenty of bites