Setanta Cup 2011

[magicbyrnsy]

I know the venue is still to be decided and the 14th seems to be the date but does anybody know the time of the final? Evening or afternoon? I'm coming back from holidays that weekend and will try to get back for it if possible.

[pineapple stu]

Nonsense. Anyone can win a football match in this league.
Except Drogheda.

[Acornvilla]

no chance of having it in the aviva with a cheap ticket job again?

[mypost]

Oriel Park.

it should be good enough for the Setanta Cup.

Oriel has already held a Dundalk-Rovers cup game this season.

[avvenalaf]

Good to see Rovers cross the ball and have the players to finish it in the first half. Finn was outstanding in the first half, great stuff. Oman should've been sent off for handball at 1-1 which might've seen a different game and after Mannus' great save from Greene, Rovers saw it out comfortably enough..

Dundalk with Kearns, Quigley and Byrne will be a danger..

Kearns = Show Pony
Quigley = Probably sulking by the time the final is played
Byrne = Old man.

This is a done deal.

[Dodge]

Final should clearly be in Tallaght. Rovers get the main stand, Dundalk get the newer stand (as was split last year for Bohs/Pats). Its a great set up for a final in fairness with both fans opposit each other. Dundalk, for all its charms, is a kip.

(For the record I think the Final should always be played in Tallaght now if a Northern team isn't involved)

Get the feeling Dundalk will be one of those teams that could beat Rovers 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to galway the following week. Something lacking there, but talent isn't the thing.

[harleyleeds]

Final should clearly be in Tallaght. Rovers get the main stand, Dundalk get the newer stand (as was split last year for Bohs/Pats). Its a great set up for a final in fairness with both fans opposit each other. Dundalk, for all its charms, is a kip.

(For the record I think the Final should always be played in Tallaght now if a Northern team isn't involved)

Get the feeling Dundalk will be one of those teams that could beat Rovers 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to galway the following week. Something lacking there, but talent isn't the thing.

Totally unfair in Tallaght . Why not Cork? Or two legs?

[Dodge]

Cork because its completely out of the way for both sides. Two legs because its a **** idea.

Best ground for Setanta final is Tallaght. So what if ROvers got to it?

[harleyleeds]

Kearns = Show Pony
Quigley = Probably sulking by the time the final is played
Byrne = Old man.

This is a done deal.


At half time yesterday commentator said of a Shams player "he can celebrate this victory tonight in ........" , while he was right I found his arrogance totally ignorant . Im sure Dundalk fans would think the same about yours and please stop talking up Shams , Your a Rovers fan after all.

[harleyleeds]

Cork because its completely out of the way for both sides. Two legs because its a **** idea.

Best ground for Setanta final is Tallaght. So what if ROvers got to it?


What if Cork and galway were in it? Does it only matter if its out of the way for Dublin(pale) sides? Wouldnt it be home advantage to Shams?

[Charlie Darwin]

Well the overall aim should be to get as many fans as possible to the game into a stadium with good facilities. That means a stadium that's convenient for both sets of fans to attend and, assuming the Aviva would be far too big, that means Tallaght. Half the Dundalk away support is based in Dublin anyway. A mutually convenient venue for Cork-Galway would probably still be Tallaght.

[Ezeikial]

Final should clearly be in Tallaght. Rovers get the main stand, Dundalk get the newer stand (as was split last year for Bohs/Pats). Its a great set up for a final in fairness with both fans opposit each other. Dundalk, for all its charms, is a kip.

(For the record I think the Final should always be played in Tallaght now if a Northern team isn't involved)



It would fly totally in the face of sporting fairness if the final was now arbitrarily set for Tallaght after Shamrock Rovers have reached the final.

If Tallaght Stadium had been nominated as the final venue at the outset of the competition that would be acceptable, but to do so now, unless agreement was forthcoming from Dundalk, would go against all principles of fairness.

At this point it should either be a neutral venue, or failing that a toss of a coin to decide between Tallaght and Oriel.

[HulaHoop]

It would fly totally in the face of sporting fairness if the final was now arbitrarily set for Tallaght after Shamrock Rovers have reached the final.

If Tallaght Stadium had been nominated as the final venue at the outset of the competition that would be acceptable, but to do so now, unless agreement was forthcoming from Dundalk, would go against all principles of fairness.

At this point it should either be a neutral venue, or failing that a toss of a coin to decide between Tallaght and Oriel.

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

[Ezeikial]

Get the feeling Dundalk will be one of those teams that could beat Rovers 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to galway the following week. Something lacking there, but talent isn't the thing.

I think you are talking about consistency - and that is what most teams aspire to.

Foster has assembled a very talented group of players, but the main challenge he faces are inexperience and the lack of depth in the squad.

Working off a 19 man panel injuries to Bolger, Maher, Osbourne and Bennett have created a lot of difficulties. When you look at the team that finished against Sligo and Cliftonville in the last two matches -
Defence - Michael Hector (18) Nathan Murphy (18)
Midfield - Stephen McDonnell (19) Danny Kearns (19) Keith Ward (20)
Attack - Johnny Breen (20)

Throw in guys in their early 20's such as Simon Madden (22) and Ross Gaynor (23) and the age profile is very young - Colin Hawkins, Jason Byrne and Dean Bennet (when fit) are the elder statesmen in what is probably the youngest squad in the premier division, aside from UCD.

Foster's focus on attacking play is also a double edged sword and can leave the team exposed to conceding too many goals.

A combination of the above means that it is probably not feasible for Dundalk to seriously challenge for the title, but in one-off games Dundalk can beat any team in the league

[harleyleeds]

Well the overall aim should be to get as many fans as possible to the game into a stadium with good facilities. That means a stadium that's convenient for both sets of fans to attend and, assuming the Aviva would be far too big, that means Tallaght. Half the Dundalk away support is based in Dublin anyway. A mutually convenient venue for Cork-Galway would probably still be Tallaght.

Ok I see your point but really no other ground in Dublin capable of holding this?
BTW no way Dublin is mutually convenient to Cork and Galway and again why not Cork?

Thomond park springs to mind.

[harleyleeds]

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

Surely the real shame is that there appears to be only one proper ground in the whole league?

[Ezeikial]

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

Agreed - that both a neutral venue and a modern stadium are both preferable. Ultimately it boils down to which is most important to the Setanta Committee - sporting fairness and even handedness should always win out. It would be a travesty if one club were openly and arbitrarily given an unfair advantage.

If Tallaght were such an obvious choice it should have been nominated as the venue, if 2 LoI clubs were involved, from the outset. It wasn't - neutral venue or toss of a coin are the only realistic options if this competition is to retain any credibility

[Mario]

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.

In fairness with its limited access, crumbling terraces etc Oriel Park is a hovel and isnt fit to host a major final.

It will be played in Tallaght not because its Rovers ground but because its best ground available and Setanta will want to have it there for their own reasons, best media facilities, will look the best on TV and most cost efficient for them etc.

[Dunny]

Indoor 5-a-side, sorted.

[harleyleeds]

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.

In fairness with its limited access, crumbling terraces etc Oriel Park is a hovel and isnt fit to host a major final.

It will be played in Tallaght not because its Rovers ground but because its best ground available and Setanta will want to have it there for their own reasons, best media facilities, will look the best on TV and most cost efficient for them etc.


I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.

[Mario]

ps. Dundalk to date have never brought more than 300 to any of their games in Tallaght. Will be interesting to see how many they can bring this time around!

Taking regular attendences into account is standard practice for allocating Cup final tickets in most countries, so that regular fans as opposed to day trippers get to see the game. The tickets for this game should be allocated on the ratio on Dundalks average gates to Rovers average gates, about a 2-1 split Id say!?

[harleyleeds]

ps. Dundalk to date have never brought more than 300 to any of their games in Tallaght. Will be interesting to see how many they can bring this time around!

Taking regular attendences into account is standard practice for allocating Cup final tickets in most countries, so that regular fans as opposed to day trippers get to see the game. The tickets for this game should be allocated on the ratio on Dundalks average gates to Rovers average gates, about a 2-1 split Id say!?


Why not ban them altogether?

[ger121]

Tolka would be a good neutral venue for both sides. The pitch looked very good from the highlights of the Monaghan game and I think all the stands are still open.

[PartySaint]

Windsor Park

I see no problems with that

[Dodge]

I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground. Not a big deal IMO.


If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.


For the record Pats and Shels have never bickered about where any final has been played.

Give each team their owns tand and if they can't sell it with 3/4 days left, open it up to the other side. Toss for home dressing rooms, kits etc

[harleyleeds]

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground. Not a big deal IMO.



For the record Pats and Shels have never bickered about where any final has been played.

Give each team their owns tand and if they can't sell it with 3/4 days left, open it up to the other side. Toss for home dressing rooms, kits etc



Fair enough but its your opinion you dont seem to be allowing for the fact that it is a big deal to others so if it was a nuetral venue all would be happy yes, as opposed to just some being happy?

[HulaHoop]

I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.


Is it? Rival fans seem to take great pleasure in pointing out to us it's not our stadium and we're only renting a council owned facility so by that logic Tallaght is a neutral venue ;)


Joking aside, Ezeikial would it make any difference if Dundalk got the home dressing rooms, fans in the main stand and wore their home kit in a Tallaght final?

[Hitman]

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground.


City and Glentoran at the Cross in 2008 as well.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok I see your point but really no other ground in Dublin capable of holding this?
BTW no way Dublin is mutually convenient to Cork and Galway and again why not Cork?

Thomond park springs to mind.
Thomond would be laughably big for Cork-Galway. Cost-effectiveness comes into it again.

Transport from Galway-Dublin is a lot better than from Galway-Cork. Also Cork is a hole.

[harleyleeds]

Thomond would be laughably big for Cork-Galway. Cost-effectiveness comes into it again.

Transport from Galway-Dublin is a lot better than from Galway-Cork. Also Cork is a hole.


"Cork is a hole" your not a very nice person charlie.

Thomond too big but Aviva ok hmmmm.

[Ezeikial]

Joking aside, Ezeikial would it make any difference if Dundalk got the home dressing rooms, fans in the main stand and wore their home kit in a Tallaght final?

Irrespective of where the final ends up being played the dressing rooms and kit choice should absolutely be decided on the toss of a coin. Same tranparent equal allocation of seating / tickets etc. This is so obvious I can't understand why you even raise it - unless you are suggesting that this is some "compensation" for Tallaght being arbitrarily awarded the final (please reassure me that you dont have this level of arrogance)

[Charlie Darwin]

"Cork is a hole" your not a very nice person charlie.

Thomond too big but Aviva ok hmmmm.
I jest.

The Aviva would be even worse than Thomond. Rovers-Dundalk at least has the potential to attract more than 10,000 fans. Can't see Galway dragging many people down to Limerick.

[passerrby]

talla should be fine but the venue cannot be a home game for rovers so dressing rooms stands,chose of kits should all be given to dundalk to even up the advantage
as for tolka both riverside and behind goal was closed there is so much gardai crime scene tape it would look like a home game for rovers

[harleyleeds]

I jest.

The Aviva would be even worse than Thomond. Rovers-Dundalk at least has the potential to attract more than 10,000 fans. Can't see Galway dragging many people down to Limerick.

Really why not its not far. Or what if it was Limerick v sligo why not terryland instead of tallaght?

[Charlie Darwin]

What have Sligo got to do with it? I didn't say every final ever should be played at Tallaght.

[Ezeikial]

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything.

Agreed - including the abilty to apply fairness and equality. Some would argue that it is a duty not to automatically confer an advantage to one side over the other, after the finalists have become known.



This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.


There is no need for any bickering - neutral venue or toss of a coin is so obviously confers equal chance to both


ps. Dundalk to date have never brought more than 300 to any of their games in Tallaght. Will be interesting to see how many they can bring this time around!

Taking regular attendences into account is standard practice for allocating Cup final tickets in most countries, so that regular fans as opposed to day trippers get to see the game. The tickets for this game should be allocated on the ratio on Dundalks average gates to Rovers average gates, about a 2-1 split Id say!?

Bizarre suggestion to say the least - any examples of this "standard practice in most countries"?

[Dodge]

If it becomes the TG4 Cup we can play it in Galway.

Until then its in Dublin ;)

[Ezeikial]

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground. Not a big deal IMO.


There are loads of example of finals being played in the home ground of one of the participating clubs.

In every case that I am aware of this was either (a) set in advance of the competition (b) was agreed between the clubs or (c) as a result of the toss of a coin.

It is a big deal otherwise

[harleyleeds]

What have Sligo got to do with it? I didn't say every final ever should be played at Tallaght.

Obviously I assumed you were when you commented on galway/cork but didnt realise you meant only the finals not involving sligo which i suspect is all finals .

[harleyleeds]

If it becomes the TG4 Cup we can play it in Galway.

Until then its in Dublin ;)


One more time whats wrong with Cork. TC is a great ground. To be clear were talking about finals in general.

[avvenalaf]

At half time yesterday commentator said of a Shams player "he can celebrate this victory tonight in ........" , while he was right I found his arrogance totally ignorant . Im sure Dundalk fans would think the same about yours and please stop talking up Shams , Your a Rovers fan after all.

In the words of the immortal Jack Nicholson 'You can't handle the truth'.
Being a Rovers fan should not prevent me from stating the obvious.

[harleyleeds]

In the words of the immortal Jack Nicholson 'You can't handle the truth'.
Being a Rovers fan should not prevent me from stating the obvious.


It should prevent you from stating that Dundalk have no chance even if it were true. The only truth I can see here is that you are (and I hate myself for saying this) a bitter dude cos shams spanked Rovers. Get with the program and give respect to Dundalk.

[SkStu]

Indoor 5-a-side, sorted.

fly keeper or last man back?

[Charlie Darwin]

Obviously I assumed you were when you commented on galway/cork but didnt realise you meant only the finals not involving sligo which i suspect is all finals .
Sligo are arguably the second biggest club in the country now. Depending on who they were playing, Thomond or the RDS might be a better option than Tallaght and certainly Terryland, which is barely worthy of hosting a kids' final.

[Acornvilla]

earrah just play it in Flancare and be quiet

[Dodge]

One more time whats wrong with Cork. TC is a great ground. To be clear were talking about finals in general.

I'd like to think Dundalk could sell 2,000 tickets for Tallaght. They wouldn't get near that for Cork. Rovers would obviously have a small percentage make the journey.

Add in factors like ease of access for TV, sponsors etc and its clear to see why Cork is a non runner.

[harleyleeds]

I'd like to think Dundalk could sell 2,000 tickets for Tallaght. They wouldn't get near that for Cork. Rovers would obviously have a small percentage make the journey.

Add in factors like ease of access for TV, sponsors etc and its clear to see why Cork is a non runner.


what part of finals in general did you not get. Im talking about the statements that only tallaght is fit for a final in Ireland.Dundalk/Shamrock could surely be played in Tolka,Dalymount,Inchicore , no?

[harleyleeds]

Sligo are arguably the second biggest club in the country now. Depending on who they were playing, Thomond or the RDS might be a better option than Tallaght and certainly Terryland, which is barely worthy of hosting a kids' final.

Sligo Rovers have 2000 or so support so Terryland would be fine. Atmosphere would be better too and season ticket holders would have priority to tickets ensuring loyal support.

[shep]

Ah who gives a f *ck where it is...it will be a great day out regardless!!! Most Dundalk fans know it will prob be in Tallaght and i dont think many care provided we get an equal share of tickets.Most disappointing venue for me would be Oriel cos it just wouldnt feel like a cup final and would take away from the buzz of the occasion for me

[Dodge]

what part of finals in general did you not get. Im talking about the statements that only tallaght is fit for a final in Ireland.Dundalk/Shamrock could surely be played in Tolka,Dalymount,Inchicore , no?

No, none of Dalymount, Tolka or Inchicore are fit enough to host a final between Dundalk and Rovers. Not even close (unfortunately). None are big enough.

And the 'in general' part of your question is immaterial. The same problems arise. Every single game that could be played in Dublin has a far lower crowd in Cork (or Limerick), and is less attractive for sponsors and media. Until the country has a fine public transport service (and road system) linking all LOI areas, then it has to be Dublin