Roy Keane

[weldoninhio]

Ive tried my best to avoid commenting on this thread but I have to respond to this post.

Roy Keane had to persuade Alex Ferguson to allow him to play in the 1st leg in Lansdowne Road cause he had been injured for the previous 4 weeks. The medical team at Old Trafford could have easily said Keane wasn't fit to play either game.

By all accounts at the time, Ferguson wasn't happy that Keane was playing at all so there was no chance he would be allowed play in the away game too. Also, McCarthy stated at the time that an agreement had been made that Keane would play the 1st leg and then go back to OT to treat the injury.

Also, I remember he didn't look fully fit in the home game. He was nowhere near his best.

Biggest Cop Out ever!!! Don't FIFA rules state that even if a players club claim that he is injured, he can still be called up by his national side to be examined by their medical staff!!

Had to convince Ferguson my arse. More BS excuses from the Roy Keane brigade!!

[NeilMcD]

Lads I have said it before, Duff and McGeady missed the Italian game and played on the following Sat for their clubs. Should they be accused of feigning injury.

[Stuttgart88]

Come in Neil, you're not that naive. Have they done it 30 times? Do you reckon Giggs was injured for 40 Wales friendlies?

Duff would walk on coals to play for Ireland. It's about the only team he can play for that doesn't get thumped these days for a start.

[NeilMcD]

I honestly do not believe that Keane could have travelled and played for Ireland away to Iran. I think he played injured in the home game.

[irishfan86]

Here's the thing- these guys play so many games that they are rarely 100%. If it's a qualifier or a league match they'll play through at 70% or 80%, but why play in needless friendlies (especially if you've proven your worth to the national team as Keane/Giggs had)?

I admire guys like Given and Kilbane that want to play every game, but I can also see the other side of the coin.

I play 20 games in a season at a very low level and I'm glad of a rest at the end of it- I can only imagine life as a pro where you're putting your body through 40 games of top flight football when you add in pre-season, cup play, and internationals.

[geysir]

I honestly do not believe that Keane could have travelled and played for Ireland away to Iran. I think he played injured in the home game.
He certainly looked to be at half pace in the home leg.

Why would you even feel a need to honestly believe something you know little about. An honest belief should look to the wider picture of evidence.
Mick's principles, sense of duty and honour have never been compromised. People can question his football brain at the time and his ability to handle outrageous egos, but I have not come across anybody who could question his honesty and dignity.
Maybe there was a perception flying around with Mick that Keane didn't exactly agitate too hard to go to Iran. Maybe the Keane version of the "deal" didn't resonate with McCarthy's version and his expectations of his captain.

Maybe it was totally outside Mick's comprehension that a captain would want to leave pretraining facilities before a WC. Maybe the final straw was passed when Mick had to persuade his captain to stay in the middle of the night. Maybe Mick's perception of everything to do with Keane had turned blacker than black.
Maybe Mick should have gone for a long walk.

Roy was within 3 minutes of leaving when nobody had accused him of cheating. Keane's clinging to the cheating slur justification is a cop out, a denial of what had gone on before. Anybody here who has had to deal with provocative teenagers knows only too well that psychology.

[NeilMcD]

Read my previous posts on this and you will see that I can understand why McCarthy made those allegations to Keane. Keanes criticisms of Mc Carthys professionalism were and are as cutting as Mc Carthys comment to Keane in front of the players. If I was Pat Kenny last week it would have been the exact comment I would have asked. Did you not think that Mick Mc Carthy was every bit as hurt by your public comments, as you were by his comments at the team meeting about the Iran game.

Still does not get away from my other point in that I do not think Keane pulled out of the 2nd leg for no reason. I believe he was injured and not fit to play.

[Closed Account 2]

I honestly do not believe that Keane could have travelled and played for Ireland away to Iran. I think he played injured in the home game.

Personally if I was captain of my country I would have gone to Tehran even if I couldn't play. Roy was a key figure - as captain he could use his experience to guide, motivate and marshall the younger, less experienced players. Iran away was the most hostile environment we've played in during the modern era. It was a one off match that we had to survive (i.e not lose by more than one goal) to get to the world cup, it was like a mini world cup final. The team we had lacked major top level experience: Shay Given; Steve Finnan, Ian Harte, Gary Breen, Steve Staunton, Mark Kinsella, Jason McAteer, Matt Holland, David Connolly, Robbie Keane, Kevin Kilbane. Only McAteer and Stan had played at an international tournament. While players like Harte and McAteer had some Champions League experience noone had the wealth of experience of Roy Keane.

Like I say I'd still have gone to Tehran myself even if I couldnt play due to injury. I'm no fan of Drogba but I remember him down at the Munich touchline of the Ivory Coast - Serbia Game at the last world cup. He was suspended having picked up two yellows vs Argentina and Holland. But he was in the dug out encouraging the less experienced players motivating them at half time etc. And this was in an essentially meaningless match - both teams were out. I remember seeing Arshavin doing the same during the early matches of Euro 2008 (which he was suspended for) and Cannavaro doing it for the Italians at Euro 2008 (injured before it).

[Superhoops]

....Still does not get away from my other point in that I do not think Keane pulled out of the 2nd leg for no reason......

The reason was he had a far more important game to play for MU against Leicester, 2 days later. :mad:

[NeilMcD]

Personally if I was captain of my country I would have gone to Tehran even if I couldn't play. Roy was a key figure - as captain he could use his experience to guide, motivate and marshall the younger, less experienced players. Iran away was the most hostile environment we've played in during the modern era. It was a one off match that we had to survive (i.e not lose by more than one goal) to get to the world cup, it was like a mini world cup final. The team we had lacked major top level experience: Shay Given; Steve Finnan, Ian Harte, Gary Breen, Steve Staunton, Mark Kinsella, Jason McAteer, Matt Holland, David Connolly, Robbie Keane, Kevin Kilbane. Only McAteer and Stan had played at an international tournament. While players like Harte and McAteer had some Champions League experience noone had the wealth of experience of Roy Keane.

Like I say I'd still have gone to Tehran myself even if I couldnt play due to injury. I'm no fan of Drogba but I remember him down at the Munich touchline of the Ivory Coast - Serbia Game at the last world cup. He was suspended having picked up two yellows vs Argentina and Holland. But he was in the dug out encouraging the less experienced players motivating them at half time etc. And this was in an essentially meaningless match - both teams were out. I remember seeing Arshavin doing the same during the early matches of Euro 2008 (which he was suspended for) and Cannavaro doing it for the Italians at Euro 2008 (injured before it).

Big Difference between being in the dugout at a major championship that you are already at then there is in flying on about a 6 hour flight over and back and missing out on treatment at Man Utd. Your comparisions are not valid for that reason at all. Also I do not think that Roy Keane was that typeof captain for Ireland to be honest. Thats the way he was and everybody is different. It goes back again to the point. Was he fit to play in the 2nd leg, No. Did he play through injury in the first leg yes as can be seen by his performance. Is he the only player who has missed a Wed game and played for his club on the Saturday, NO, it actually happened in the last Ireland match.

[Razors left peg]

Come in Neil, you're not that naive. Have they done it 30 times? Do you reckon Giggs was injured for 40 Wales friendlies?

Duff would walk on coals to play for Ireland. It's about the only team he can play for that doesn't get thumped these days for a start.

Players at big clubs like United play alot more games in a season that players at smaller clubs because of european football and the big clubs usually go further in the domestic cups too.I think the Giggs situation at Wales was a bit extreme because I dont think he ever played a friendly, but I dont blame the players at some of the big clubs missing out on friendlies sometimes..... even as a fan it can be a hassle to go to some of the meaningless friendlies

[jmurphyc]

Also I do not think that Roy Keane was that typeof captain for Ireland to be honest. Thats the way he was and everybody is different.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of your post. This part I agree with too. Added to the fact that he almost certainly felt that receiving treatment for him in Manchester would have been better for his long term fitness, he was, as has been made out in various biographies and articles, a bit of a loner. He didn't really socialise with the rest of the squad. He might have gone to Tehran and given a rousing speech, but the fact is he was primarily a captain on the pitch. He probably felt that the players would be just as well off without him on the trip to Tehran and he would be fine flying back to Manchester for recuperation.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Personally if I was captain of my country I would have gone to Tehran even if I couldn't play. Roy was a key figure - as captain he could use his experience to guide, motivate and marshall the younger, less experienced players. Iran away was the most hostile environment we've played in during the modern era. It was a one off match that we had to survive (i.e not lose by more than one goal) to get to the world cup, it was like a mini world cup final. The team we had lacked major top level experience: Shay Given; Steve Finnan, Ian Harte, Gary Breen, Steve Staunton, Mark Kinsella, Jason McAteer, Matt Holland, David Connolly, Robbie Keane, Kevin Kilbane. Only McAteer and Stan had played at an international tournament. While players like Harte and McAteer had some Champions League experience noone had the wealth of experience of Roy Keane.

Like I say I'd still have gone to Tehran myself even if I couldnt play due to injury. I'm no fan of Drogba but I remember him down at the Munich touchline of the Ivory Coast - Serbia Game at the last world cup. He was suspended having picked up two yellows vs Argentina and Holland. But he was in the dug out encouraging the less experienced players motivating them at half time etc. And this was in an essentially meaningless match - both teams were out. I remember seeing Arshavin doing the same during the early matches of Euro 2008 (which he was suspended for) and Cannavaro doing it for the Italians at Euro 2008 (injured before it).

Whether or not he should have travelled is a moot point for me, he did look a bit below pace in the first leg but he also played 90 minutes 3 days after the second and seemed to be fine (maybe down to extra treatment recieved).

However, him buggering off by his own admission after the first leg without so much as wishing the rest of the squad luck for the second leg was a deriliction of his dut as captian for me and makes a mockery of the 'ultimate professional' tag that gets bandied about. Keane was a superb captain on the pitch but a lousy one off it for me.

[lionelhutz]

Big Difference between being in the dugout at a major championship that you are already at then there is in flying on about a 6 hour flight over and back and missing out on treatment at Man Utd. Your comparisions are not valid for that reason at all.

I was going to make the same point until I read your post.

Spot on. Keane had been injured for a month, then played in the 1st leg nowhere near fully fit and needed treatment on the injury asap afterwards. He would probably have been out for longer if he went on that pointless (for him) trip to Iran.

[Stuttgart88]

However, him buggering off by his own admission after the first leg without so much as wishing the rest of the squad luck for the second leg was a deriliction of his duty as captain for me Agree totally. It surprises me that so few people ever pick up on this point.

[NeilMcD]

That point is fair but it does not constitute feigning injury. Did Keane leave after the 1st leg in the best circumstances. No, is Roy Keane perfect No. Did he make mistakes for Ireland as captain, yes loads of them. Did Mick McCarthy do a good job for Ireland, yes. Did he make loads of mistakes as manager yes. Was he right to insult Roy Keane in front of his team mates with an allegation of feigning injury. No Was Roy Keane previous to that right in slamming the facilities in front of the media in interviews with the Irish Times, No he was not.

This whole case was a sorry scenario were the two main guys did not behave properly in my view. The problem is so many people wish to see this either from a Roy Keane was right on Mick Mc Carthy was right perspective. Like loads of things the truth is in the grey, not the black and white.

[jbyrne]

However, him buggering off by his own admission after the first leg without so much as wishing the rest of the squad luck for the second leg

how do you know this to be fact? no one other than Roy and the players know what happened yet some people quote heresay as fact



Keane was a superb captain on the pitch but a lousy one off it for me.

who cares about the off-field stuff. he led by example on the pitch and thats where it counts. rousing speeches in the dressing room and all that are forgotten 5 mins into the match. which is more important... wishing players good luck or his tackle in the first min v overmars in '01?

[jmurphyc]

how do you know this to be fact? no one other than Roy and the players know what happened yet some people quote heresay as fact

It's been widely reported as being true. I'm not sure whether there's an official source proving it, but I think it's generally been taken as being true due to the volume of people who have said that's what happened. Keane clearly wasn't a flawless individual and it doing this wouldn't surprise me too much.



rousing speeches in the dressing room and all that are forgotten 5 mins into the match.

How do you know he gave rousing speeches in the dressing room? Surely only the players know what he did in the dressing room? :p

Edit: Whoops, just realised I completely misread your post.

[Drumcondra 69er]

how do you know this to be fact? no one other than Roy and the players know what happened yet some people quote heresay as fact

who cares about the off-field stuff. he led by example on the pitch and thats where it counts. rousing speeches in the dressing room and all that are forgotten 5 mins into the match. which is more important... wishing players good luck or his tackle in the first min v overmars in '01?

Keane himself admitted it in his interview on Dunphy's show in 2003, it's common knowledge.

As for the Overmars tackle, that's yet another myth propogated by the media love in with RK, the Dutch ran us ragged following that tackle with Overmars in particular central to that, ending up with us going down to 10 men because of his form. Luck had far more to do with us keeping a clean sheet that first half then a foul committed in the first minute that Keane was lucky to escape a booking for.

For the record, I do think Keane was immense that day, I just don't believe that that tackle set the tone or had any bearing whatsoever on the way the gamne panned out.

[bennocelt]

who cares about the off-field stuff. he led by example on the pitch and thats where it counts. rousing speeches in the dressing room and all that are forgotten 5 mins into the match. which is more important... wishing players good luck or his tackle in the first min v overmars in '01?

exactly, jesus some of the posters in this site are so petty

re Keane in every game he has played for Ireland, esp V Holland, and remember the time he took us by the sruff of the neck V Cyprus

[NeilMcD]

Having read a lot of the posts on this forum I think its going to be impossible to get any real sensible debate when you have people who think that Keane is a psycho and others who think he is God.

I remember both him and Mick McCarthy as great players for Ireland and both of them were great captains for Ireland and I hope both of them do well in management.

[Razors left peg]

Having read a lot of the posts on this forum I think its going to be impossible to get any real sensible debate when you have people who think that Keane is a psycho and others who think he is God.

I remember both him and Mick McCarthy as great players for Ireland and both of them were great captains for Ireland and I hope both of them do well in management.

Ah come on now, there is no place for that sort of sensible thinking in a thread like this, you should get a warning from the mods for that that sort of thing!!:)

[jbyrne]

It's been widely reported as being true.

i've read elsewhere that elvis isnt dead.... but who knows


As for the Overmars tackle, that's yet another myth propogated by the media love in with RK, the Dutch ran us ragged following that tackle with Overmars in particular central to that, ending up with us going down to 10 men because of his form.

gary kelly was run ragged but i cant remember our goal being threatened too often that day to be honest

[jmurphyc]

gary kelly was run ragged but i cant remember our goal being threatened too often that day to be honest

I can't remember the game too well so you may be right on Keane's challenge changing the match - in terms of us being in their faces - but from my hazy memory I remember them having quite a few chances and us looking like we'd find it difficult to hold them at bay.

[Noelys Guitar]

Read my previous posts on this and you will see that I can understand why McCarthy made those allegations to Keane. Keanes criticisms of Mc Carthys professionalism were and are as cutting as Mc Carthys comment to Keane in front of the players. If I was Pat Kenny last week it would have been the exact comment I would have asked. Did you not think that Mick Mc Carthy was every bit as hurt by your public comments, as you were by his comments at the team meeting about the Iran game.

Still does not get away from my other point in that I do not think Keane pulled out of the 2nd leg for no reason. I believe he was injured and not fit to play.

I can remember thinking watching the home game against Iran that Keane was carrying an injury. It looked like his hip was bothering him as he was'nt stretching out in his runs. Keane had also played with an injury in the home EU2000 game against Yugoslavia when MM was manager. The then Yugo manager commented on that after the game.

[Drumcondra 69er]

i've read elsewhere that elvis isnt dead.... but who knows



gary kelly was run ragged but i cant remember our goal being threatened too often that day to be honest

You ignoring my point that Keane admitted it himself on Dunphy's show in 2003?

And were you at the match that day? Holland could have been 3 up after 20 minutes before we even got into the game, we were all over the place at the back. Selected chances below......

92 mins: Van Nistelrooy heads inches wide. McAteer is replaced by Andy O'Brien.

88 mins: Kluivert shoots over with his left foot.

78 mins: The Dutch pile on the pressure and Kluivert shoots into the side-netting from close-range during a goalmouth scramble.


62 mins: A dreadful mix-up between Given and Steve Staunton nearly gifts Holland the opening goal. Van Nistelrooy collides with Given and appeals for a penalty but the referee says 'no'.

53 mins: Overmars cuts in from the left to shoot and Given saves again.

54 mins: Given saves again from Overmars after Richard Dunne had given the ball away.

51 mins: Given saves from Van Nistelrooy.


15 mins: Holland waste another glorious chance as Zenden shoots straight at Given.

4 mins: Shay Given dives to his right to save a low shot from Van Bommel.

2 mins: A big let-off for the Republic as Patrick Kluivert shoots wide from a great position after dispossessing Gary Kelly.

[jbyrne]

You ignoring my point that Keane admitted it himself on Dunphy's show in 2003?

And were you at the match that day? Holland could have been 3 up after 20 minutes before we even got into the game, we were all over the place at the back. Selected chances below......

92 mins: Van Nistelrooy heads inches wide. McAteer is replaced by Andy O'Brien.

88 mins: Kluivert shoots over with his left foot.

78 mins: The Dutch pile on the pressure and Kluivert shoots into the side-netting from close-range during a goalmouth scramble.


62 mins: A dreadful mix-up between Given and Steve Staunton nearly gifts Holland the opening goal. Van Nistelrooy collides with Given and appeals for a penalty but the referee says 'no'.

53 mins: Overmars cuts in from the left to shoot and Given saves again.

54 mins: Given saves again from Overmars after Richard Dunne had given the ball away.

51 mins: Given saves from Van Nistelrooy.


15 mins: Holland waste another glorious chance as Zenden shoots straight at Given.

4 mins: Shay Given dives to his right to save a low shot from Van Bommel.

2 mins: A big let-off for the Republic as Patrick Kluivert shoots wide from a great position after dispossessing Gary Kelly.

all ifs, buts and maybes. heres one from that match that did count...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_l0d2r4Mo

[Drumcondra 69er]

all ifs, buts and maybes. heres one from that match that did count...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_l0d2r4Mo

Yeah, great to see and McAteer's goal was one of the best moments I experienced at Lansdowne but it must be all you remember from it if you think our goal was rarely threatened!

Up there with Cas v England in 1990 and the og v Spain in 89 when it comes to Lansdowne goals!

[jbyrne]

Yeah, great to see and McAteer's goal was one of the best moments I experienced at Lansdowne but it must be all you remember from it if you think our goal was rarely threatened!

Up there with Cas v England in 1990 and the og v Spain in 89 when it comes to Lansdowne goals!

was a long time ago so memory is a blur! all that matters is that we won. think this topic, as all on roy tend to, has wandered just a tad! anyway, bring on more days like that one

[SkStu]

That point is fair but it does not constitute feigning injury. Did Keane leave after the 1st leg in the best circumstances. No, is Roy Keane perfect No. Did he make mistakes for Ireland as captain, yes loads of them. Did Mick McCarthy do a good job for Ireland, yes. Did he make loads of mistakes as manager yes. Was he right to insult Roy Keane in front of his team mates with an allegation of feigning injury. No Was Roy Keane previous to that right in slamming the facilities in front of the media in interviews with the Irish Times, No he was not.

This whole case was a sorry scenario were the two main guys did not behave properly in my view. The problem is so many people wish to see this either from a Roy Keane was right on Mick Mc Carthy was right perspective. Like loads of things the truth is in the grey, not the black and white.

if i could double thank this post, i would.

[Stuttgart88]

yep, it's a pretty intelligent view alright.

The Keane tackle on Overmars announced that we were up fora game alright, but D69er is right, we were blessed to get a result taht day. In fact had we deservedly lost the knives would have been out. Instead it was one of our very best wins ever.

That's why sport is great - unpredicatable things happen, as I was trying to point out to some perpetual gloom merchants here prior to Bari.

Yes, Keane was immense in that game and at home to Portugal and away to Cyprus. I don't think anyone's denying it.

[carloz]

Im fairly sure that i read that only two managers voted for Keane to be worlc player of the year in 2001. One of them was Louis Van Gaal, the other was the Portuguesse manager at the time. Says a lot indeed

[bennocelt]

i've read elsewhere that elvis isnt dead.... but who knows



gary kelly was run ragged but i cant remember our goal being threatened too often that day to be honest

dont know about that - that was one of the most one sided games i have ever seen - jesus how the hello holland didnt win i will never know (that and the fact van gaal and his bizarre substitutions):eek:

[woodie]

I hear that Bill Murray is doing a sequel to Groundhog Day. In the storyline, he argues with everyone about Saipan for seven years until the realise that everyone else has moved on....

[Wexford Delboy]

Keane up against shearer next year??:cool:

[tricky_colour]

Keane up against shearer next year??:cool:

What boxing :D - That shoud be fun, he is sure to do better then Ricky Hatton anyway!

[OwlsFan]

Keane up against shearer next year??:cool:

Shearer won't be kept on if Newcastle are relegated and he wouldn't be interested either I think. His job was to keep the Magpies in the Premiership. Not looking too promising at the moment.

Now McCarthy and Keane will be interesting. Oh, hang on a second, Mick's team will be playing in the Premiership.

As for Ireland vs Holland. We were blessed that day but this was all that mattered. Undoubtedly my highlight of Lansdowne, Croke Park or Dalymount. The fact that it was against our bete noirs, the Dutch, made it doubly sweet:

http://www.roguery.com/outings/hollandgame/mac.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

AGreat photo.

A fraction after he hit it I thought he had hit it over the bar. I was in the East Upper. I was stunned when I saw the net bulge.

[OwlsFan]

AGreat photo.

A fraction after he hit it I thought he had hit it over the bar. I was in the East Upper. I was stunned when I saw the net bulge.

The large guy in the blue shirt at the front had no doubts it was on the way in.

I couldn't get the song "My mamma always told me there'd be days like this" out of my head for weeks after this game. Whenever I hear it, I immediately recall that game.

Up there with Mackay's goal against Bulgaria, Houghton's double against England and Italy and Robbie's against Germany.

[youngirish]

Shearer won't be kept on if Newcastle are relegated and he wouldn't be interested either I think. His job was to keep the Magpies in the Premiership. Not looking too promising at the moment.

Now McCarthy and Keane will be interesting. Oh, hang on a second, Mick's team will be playing in the Premiership.

As for Ireland vs Holland. We were blessed that day but this was all that mattered. Undoubtedly my highlight of Lansdowne, Croke Park or Dalymount. The fact that it was against our bete noirs, the Dutch, made it doubly sweet:

What everyone seems to forget is that we only needed a draw for that game to more or less ensure we qualified instead of the Dutch from what I remember so its a stretch to say we were blessed. The Dutch never looked like they were going to win that game at any stage though granted they had a few chances to grab an equaliser.

[Drumcondra 69er]

What everyone seems to forget is that we only needed a draw for that game to more or less ensure we qualified instead of the Dutch from what I remember so its a stretch to say we were blessed. The Dutch never looked like they were going to win that game at any stage though granted they had a few chances to grab an equaliser.

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.

[youngirish]

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.

They should have had a clear penalty near the end when Dunne fouled Van Nistelrooy. Kluivert and Overmars had a couple of chances in the first half. Nothing too dangerous from my recollection.

[jbyrne]

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.

we had other chances too and shay only had to make one or two decent saves. they created a few chances ok but their finishing was poor

[tetsujin1979]

What everyone seems to forget is that we only needed a draw for that game to more or less ensure we qualified instead of the Dutch from what I remember so its a stretch to say we were blessed. The Dutch never looked like they were going to win that game at any stage though granted they had a few chances to grab an equaliser.
The final table (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_-_Group_2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%28UEFA_-_Group_2)) ) looked like this


Rank Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Portugal 10 7 3 0 33 7 26 24
2 Ireland 10 7 3 0 23 5 18 24
3 Netherlands 10 6 2 2 30 9 21 20
4 Estonia 10 2 2 6 10 26 -16 8
5 Cyprus 10 2 2 6 13 31 -18 8
6 Andorra 10 0 0 10 5 36 -31 0
If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.
If the Dutch had won, then we would have finished third, because we would have been level with the Dutch following the last games, but lost out in the head to head record

actually kudos to whoever added in the appearance stats for the four teams on that page, lot of work went into that

[Drumcondra 69er]

They should have had a clear penalty near the end when Dunne fouled Van Nistelrooy. Kluivert and Overmars had a couple of chances in the first half. Nothing too dangerous from my recollection.

That penalty shout was about 5 minutes before we scored. They had 3 great chances in the first 15 minutes and another 3 in the first 10 minutes of the second half.

[jbyrne]

If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.


if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)

[paul_oshea]

The final table (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_-_Group_2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%28UEFA_-_Group_2)) ) looked like this


Rank Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Portugal 10 7 3 0 33 7 26 24
2 Ireland 10 7 3 0 23 5 18 24
3 Netherlands 10 6 2 2 30 9 21 20
4 Estonia 10 2 2 6 10 26 -16 8
5 Cyprus 10 2 2 6 13 31 -18 8
6 Andorra 10 0 0 10 5 36 -31 0
If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.
If the Dutch had won, then we would have finished third, because we would have been level with the Dutch following the last games, but lost out in the head to head record

actually kudos to whoever added in the appearance stats for the four teams on that page, lot of work went into that

Going along with that, surely finishing, they would have been 21 points and we would have been 22, or heading into the last games 18 and 19 respectively?!

[Stuttgart88]

if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)True. It was still a great win.

[tetsujin1979]

if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)


Going along with that, surely finishing, they would have been 21 points and we would have been 22, or heading into the last games 18 and 19 respectively?!
yeah, so if the Dutch drew against Andorra, a draw would have done against Cyprus, and if they beat Andorra, we would have had to beat Cyprus.

BTW, this all has nothing to do with Roy Keane being appointed Ipswich manager, so feel free to delete posts, or lock or whatever

[jbyrne]

BTW, this all has nothing to do with Roy Keane being appointed Ipswich manager

really? :rolleyes: