Roy Keane

[irishfan86]

Any idea who actually wrote that? They must be Irish based. There's a delusion in there about just how obsessed the UK media are with him (Keane). Their Irish editions for sure bang on about him but their UK parent editions don't give a fraction of the coverage. As the previous article alluded -he's seen ala Holloway as a good source for a mouthy quip on a slow day -scarcely more. Holloway's funnier though and often more inciteful.

I visit skysports.com regularly, and whenever he makes a comment, there's a video clip up and featured prominently on the main page.

Whether or not he is a good coach is debatable, but there's no question IMO that he IS box office.

Holloway is the weirdo that people like to hear every now and again, but Keane has an army of people who wish they were him.

[seanfhear]

Roy Keane is the "MESSIAH"

Just not a football manager "Messiah";)

[EalingGreen]

Incorrect. True there are some young lads who earn the bare minimum who have side jobs coaching youth teams etc but that's very few, maybe 3-4 per team at most.Perhaps LA Galaxy are atypical, or things have changed in the last two years, but I remember being shocked by some of the things Ruud Gullitt had to say about his time at LA:

“Two weeks ago we had a game at home [against San Jose] and I had two of my office staff from the commercial department playing, two people whose job is to sit in the office all day doing their work. We needed bodies and we didn’t have bodies, so we asked them to play, they wanted to play and they just played"

"It is also symptomatic of the way in which the Galaxy hierarchy has chosen to build a team around its two high-profile stars, Beckham and Landon Donovan, the United States captain, whose annual salaries are $6.5m and $900,000 respectively. Their “designated player” status means that only a fraction of Galaxy’s $2.18m annual wage bill goes directly into their pockets..."

"... There exists a chasm in class between Beckham, Donovan, injured Guatemalan striker Carlos Ruiz and even Abel Xavier and the likes of 22-year-old midfield player Brandon McDonald, who has broken into the team in recent weeks in his rookie season. His $12,900 salary is at the lowest level of MLS, but Gullit wants to bring through players such as McDonald and another promising midfielder ,Josh Tudela, who earns only $17,700 annually."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article3822782.ece

Somehow, I can't see Roy Keane putting up with that sort of thing for more than, oh I dunno, a nanosecond?

[SkStu]

Roy Keane is the "MESSIAH"

Just not a football manager "Messiah";)

he's not the Messiah - he's a very naughty boy!

[The Fly]

Ba Dum Chh!

[SkStu]

Ba Dum Chh!

i dont think its the first time ive used that quote on this thread either... :shame:

[irishfan86]

Ealing, as I pointed out the minimum salary is now 40,000 bucks a year. Things are getting better.

[tricky_colour]

Ipswich just beat Arsenal, so not missing Roy too much.

[irishfan86]

The argument could be made that Roy's team won the match. Doubt much has changed in a week.

[theworm2345]

Richard Sadlier wrote a good article on Keane
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/aloof-intimidating-approach-doesnt-impress-players-2489416.html

[Metrostars]

Perhaps LA Galaxy are atypical, or things have changed in the last two years, but I remember being shocked by some of the things Ruud Gullitt had to say about his time at LA:

“Two weeks ago we had a game at home [against San Jose] and I had two of my office staff from the commercial department playing, two people whose job is to sit in the office all day doing their work. We needed bodies and we didn’t have bodies, so we asked them to play, they wanted to play and they just played"

"It is also symptomatic of the way in which the Galaxy hierarchy has chosen to build a team around its two high-profile stars, Beckham and Landon Donovan, the United States captain, whose annual salaries are $6.5m and $900,000 respectively. Their “designated player” status means that only a fraction of Galaxy’s $2.18m annual wage bill goes directly into their pockets..."

"... There exists a chasm in class between Beckham, Donovan, injured Guatemalan striker Carlos Ruiz and even Abel Xavier and the likes of 22-year-old midfield player Brandon McDonald, who has broken into the team in recent weeks in his rookie season. His $12,900 salary is at the lowest level of MLS, but Gullit wants to bring through players such as McDonald and another promising midfielder ,Josh Tudela, who earns only $17,700 annually."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article3822782.ece

Somehow, I can't see Roy Keane putting up with that sort of thing for more than, oh I dunno, a nanosecond?

Nice parsing of the quotes there.

That was a Reserve team game when they were in the middle of an injury crises.

Now, the rosters are 30 not 26 and the minimum salary is $40K not $12.5K. MLS needed to operate this way since they didn't want to make the mistakes that eventually made NASL collapse: overspending. Until Beckham the max salary was $400K but now that the league has become more stable, the Designated Player rule was introduced, squads expanded, salaries increased. Mistakes were made by some teams early on which led to their folding e.g. Tampa Bay and Miami but over the last 5-6 years, the MLS has been growing steadily with the league growing from 10 to 18 teams over the last few years.

Yes, it does appear to be Mickey Mouse from the Euros point of view, but it needs to be that way as that is the model that works over here. Indeed, I think the Euros can learn a thing or two from MLS in terms of Salary Cap and competitiveness being even.

[SwanVsDalton]

Richard Sadlier wrote a good article on Keane
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/aloof-intimidating-approach-doesnt-impress-players-2489416.html

Those anecdotes are almost beyond parody.

[EalingGreen]

Nice parsing of the quotes there.If you are implying that I deliberately edited the quotations to distort the meaning etc, you might note that I also linked to the full article i.e. people may decide for themselves whether I was being disingenuous.


That was a Reserve team game when they were in the middle of an injury crises.Fair point (I hadn't picked up on that).

But I can still only think there was something seriously wrong when a club can pay one player $6m p.a., yet still not be able to field 11 footballers for their Reserves. Did they not eg have a Youth Team/Academy?


Now, the rosters are 30 not 26 and the minimum salary is $40K not $12.5K. MLS needed to operate this way since they didn't want to make the mistakes that eventually made NASL collapse: overspending. Until Beckham the max salary was $400K but now that the league has become more stable, the Designated Player rule was introduced, squads expanded, salaries increased. Mistakes were made by some teams early on which led to their folding e.g. Tampa Bay and Miami but over the last 5-6 years, the MLS has been growing steadily with the league growing from 10 to 18 teams over the last few years.As I stated in the first line of my post: "Perhaps LA Galaxy are atypical, or things have changed in the last two years,"


Yes, it does appear to be Mickey Mouse from the Euros point of view, but it needs to be that way as that is the model that works over here. Indeed, I think the Euros can learn a thing or two from MLS in terms of Salary Cap and competitiveness being even.I accept that given the USA's somewhat unique circumstances, they do need to do things differently from the rest of the world, therefore I can have no criticism of them for that.
And in doing things differently, I have no doubt that the ROW could learn something* from them.

But the fact remains, the best young players leave the MSL for Europe when they get the opportunity, whereas the best old players leave Europe for the MSL for lack of a (better) opportunity. We are still doing a hell of a sight more things better than they are. And having been to see the MSL live, I have no expectation that that will change greatly anytime soon - even with Roy Keane's help!


* - Though decidedly NOT a salary cap. A salary cap can really only work in a franchise system. For Europe to overturn their own system (essentially Promotion & Relegation), which has been hugely successful for a century or more, in order to introduce a SC, would be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". (And in any case, for a SC to work, it would have to be implemented Europe-wide, which would be completely illegal under EU Law).

[EalingGreen]

Those anecdotes are almost beyond parody.I am a huge fan of Brian Clough and read anything I can find about him. Those stories of Sadlier's are not at all dissimilar from some of Cloughie's behaviour.

For example, in one game where Forest were a couple of goals down after the first half, against opposition they might have been expected to hammer, the players were all wondering what Clough would say at half time. Yet when they got into the dressing room, there was no sign of him. Eventually, two minutes before they were due to go back out, he appeared.
"Stand Up!", he roared. (They all did!).
Clough went down the line, staring at their face but not saying a word until he came to Nigel Jemson (up-and-coming centre forward). "Young man," he says, "have you ever had a punch in the stomach?" "No, boss", Jemson replied. At which point Clough doubled him up with a punch. He then turned on his heel and strode out towards the pitch.
Forest scored four (I think?) in the second half!

I get the impression that Keane is trying to emulate Clough (or Fergie and his hairdryer?). But what was really telling about the Jemson anecdote is that after the game, Clough went back in and thanked everyone of them personally, inc Jemson, so that they all went home feeling 10 foot tall. Keane wouldn't have needed to be thanked by Clough after turning a game around, but he forgets that the other players might.

I guess it's all a bit like me going to eg a Dara O'Breien gig, then recalling his routine word-for-word to my mates in the pub and wondering why they don't laugh.

Just as I'm no O'Breien, Keane is no Clough.

[Greenbod]

Doubt much has changed in a week.

You're right....just the manager and the results.

[osarusan]

I think all these enigmatic traits and unorthodox ways of dealing with people are seen as the methods of a genius when results are going well, but make a manager look like a total ****** if results are going badly.

[seanfhear]

Just as I'm no O'Breien, Keane is no Clough.
Who is this O'Breien of which you speak !

[tricky_colour]

Clough was only good when he was with Peter Taylor who got the right players in.

[tetsujin1979]

Clough was only good when he was with Peter Taylor who got the right players in.
Clough won the League Cup twice without Taylor in 1989 and 1990, and was runner up in 1992, and runner up in the FA Cup in 1991
Although that does pale when compared with his achievements with Taylor

[Metrostars]

But I can still only think there was something seriously wrong when a club can pay one player $6m p.a., yet still not be able to field 11 footballers for their Reserves. Did they not eg have a Youth Team/Academy?

I'm not sure about LA at the time but the team I follow, NY does have an academy.


But the fact remains, the best young players leave the MSL for Europe when they get the opportunity, whereas the best old players leave Europe for the MSL for lack of a (better) opportunity.

So do players from Brazil, Argentina, S Korea, Mexico, Australia etc.

[gastric]

Roy Keane has been linked strongly with Melbourne Victory, who play in the A League over here. The standard is pretty average, (that well known thug Kevin Muscat plays for them, but is retiring). I don't know how well he will cope with mediocre players, but the media will love his grumpy persona and will certainly rise him with the inane questions that Aussie journalists love to ask. In summary, if this happens it will end in tears!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/soccer/roy-keane-tipped-to-be-melbourne-victorys-boss/story-e6frfg8x-1226035062847

[Crosby87]

If it happens it will end with him managing the Socceroos and drinking lots of Fosters.
I can just see him throwing a boomerang, forgetting about it, then getting decapitated.

[Colbert Report]

I can't see him going to the A-League. Are all of the players there even full time professionals?

[Charlie Darwin]

The A-League is professional and I think some of the regional leagues. Keane could get a job in the top two tiers of English football tomorrow if he snapped his fingers and he'd never drag his family to the other side of the world. It's a non-runner.

[gastric]

The A League is professional with about 10 teams in it. In terms of standard, Jason Gavin and Liam Kearney have failed to make the step up from regional leagues to the A League itself. While the story may be untrue, it is certainly big news over here. As regards Keane, I completely disagree with the statement that Keane just has to click his fingers to get a job in the Championship. Keane's transfer policy and subsequent failure to get the best out of his buys as well as lack of relationship with players and the boards of clubs has become too apparent for many to consider him as a manager.

[SkStu]

he's not a total write off as a manager, he is just not as good as he thought he would be.

[gastric]

He could possibly be the next Bryan Robson or Graham Souness. To use the John Daly golf analogy, he could have more clubs than most and have nothing to show for it!

[Crosby87]

John Daly's pants are far better than Roy's will ever be though Gastric.

[Junior]

he's not a total write off as a manager, he is just not as good as he thought he would be.

Has Keane publicly stated how good he thought he'd be as a manager?

I think he'll come good personally, though lots of room for improvement thats for sure!

[an_ceannaire]

He could possibly be the next Bryan Robson or Graham Souness. To use the John Daly golf analogy, he could have more clubs than most and have nothing to show for it!

John Daly has a few majors to his name lad!
And Keano will manage Celtic some day, nothing surer!

[Cuyahoga]

What have Celtic done to deserve that? .............Australia its not far enough!!

[gastric]

John Daly has a few majors to his name lad!
And Keano will manage Celtic some day, nothing surer!
Just to be pedantic, the comparison of Daly with Keane is just and correct. Daly won his two majors in 1991 and 1995- at the start of his career. Keane 's managerial campaign also started with some success - promotion and keeping Sunderland in the Premiership. Daly has not done much since, either has Keane - hence the wonderful comparison!

[SkStu]

Has Keane publicly stated how good he thought he'd be as a manager?


nope. But you just know he thought he was as good as Fergie. :)

[Spudulika]

Away in Australia he'll have a bit of peace, though you can be sure there will be a rush of Victory jerseys on sale in Ireland, RTE and other outlets starting with "Roy Keane's Melbourne Victory...." and unless he a) hits the bottle or b) hits someone with a bottle, he should do well enough to rehabilitate his name, reputation and enthusiasm for the game. He'll come back and take over from Trappatoni.

[The Fly]

http://www.joe.ie/football/international-football/roy-keane-every-tom-dick-and-harry-is-claiming-to-be-irish-0012089-1


Roy Keane has launched a scathing rant at the increasing number of ‘plastic paddies’ on the Irish international soccer team.

English-born players with Irish roots such as Simon Cox and Paul Green have recently declared for the Republic, while the prospect of the likes of Jermaine Pennant, Jamie O’Hara and Mark Noble pulling on the green jersey has also been mooted in recent months.

It is something that has upset many a dyed in the wool follower of the Boys in Green, and although it would be a stretch to put Roy Keane in that category, the former Ireland captain has spoken of his dismay at a development that he feels will dilute the sense of national pride that comes with playing for one’s country.

Speaking to Cork’s Life 93.1 FM, rent-a-quote Keane said: “Eventually it’s going to be spot the Irishman on the pitch. I know we have to be open minded over which players are eligible to play for Ireland, but now it’s getting a bit silly. Every Tom, Dick and Harry seems to be claiming to be Irish.”

Keane is more qualified than most to talk about what is becoming a delicate situation considering that he played with a number of British-born players, such as Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton and (cough) Tony Cascarino during his international career, but he feels that in his time, players really wanted to play for Ireland, whereas now it is considered a good career move.

“I know years ago we got stick – people saying it was the England B team,” Keane added. "But I think there were a lot of lads playing for Ireland or who are in the squad who to me are English through and through. They are saying – I probably can’t get capped for another country so I’ll pick Ireland. Players have said that. I know they have. And that’s not the right way to go about things either.”

Since retiring as a player, Keane has become something of a cranky and disillusioned figure and his rants about the game and particularly the Irish team have become commonplace. Not surprisingly, he didn’t resist the opportunity to stick the boot into the current squad and returned to a favourite theme of his, the lack of impact by the senior players in the Ireland squad, who according to Keane, are talking the talk but not walking the walk.

“I just think more can come from certain players. So-called senior players – you guarantee a week before international matches they are doing a lot of talking, but not too much working. The mentality with certain players is not good enough. And that is why they are playing for the clubs they are. I said that, I think, pre-World Cup 2002 and I’m saying that now. The so-called big hitters in the Irish team to me now aren’t big hitters. They are not even in their club teams. But they obviously have probably certain pals in the media and they deflect that a little bit.”

[Jofspring]

Agree with him to a certain degree. I don't think anybody minds a few decent players claiming for Ireland if we are stuck but a lot seem to be doing it now to either make a name for themselves or becuase they can't make England. A lot of very average to poor players getting chances to play international football with us these days.

[peadar1987]

This comment on Greenscene made me laugh:

"Elsewhere in the interview Keane also expressed controversial views on the US raid on Bin Laden’s compound, Irelands possible IMF bailout rate adjustment and several other issues that were none of his ****ing business."

[tricky_colour]

Well Roy part of the problem is people born in Ireland who refuse to play for their country because they put their own selfish interests first!!

I'd rather a plastic paddy than a proper shirker!!

[geysir]

Roy having a pot at Shay and Robbie.

[Fixer82]

Any link for that interview?

[tommy_c12000]

Cork's Life 93.1fm??? I smell a rat, never heard of that station! That's around the Radio na Gaeltachta mark isnt it, wudnt have thought Roy to be the Gaelgoir sort but wonders never cease to amaze me. Or perhaps I've been away from my beloved home county too long. . . .

[geysir]

Any link for that interview?

This one is close enough
seeing as The Fly ain't around (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2011/mar/01/charlie-sheen-interview-today-tmz)

[hoops1]

Have to say I agree with Keane 100%. You only have to look at threads on this forum to see how embarrassing we have become.

[Stuttgart88]

Roy having a pot at Shay and Robbie.Yes, and ar their "friends in the media", though if some media quarters are anything to go by, I'd hate to see Robbie's enemies. Still, at least their so-called media friends aren't alleged paedophiles like Keano's best mate in the press.

[TrapAPony]

Don't agree with Roy Keane at all. I'd doubt the FAI do either.

[Stuttgart88]

Have to say I agree with Keane 100%. You only have to look at threads on this forum to see how embarrassing we have become.I prefer to look at the actual team, or squad, rather than threads. I reckon we have no more "anglos" now than we ever have. If you want to call the likes of Gibson & McGeady "career progressors" then we'll have to disagree.

In my opinion our strongest XI is:

Given
Foley-Dunne-O'Shea-AN Other
McGeady-Whelan-Fahey or Gibson-Duff
Keane--Doyle

9 out of 10 born in Ireland. I haven't bothered with a left back, but anyone questioning KK's Irishness is a tool.

On the bench: Hunt, Long, Best (Irish mother & spent childhood in Ireland), Clark (both parents Irish), Stokes, O'Dea, McCarthy, Walters (Irish mother?), Kelly. I don't think any of these is "embarrassing", nor is Paul Green really. It's more embarrasing when the press & posters here get in a hissy fit when grandkids of Irishmen don't get called up.

Keane could maybe have some justification wrt Westwood, Lawrence, St. Leger, Folan and Cox - only one of whom is a likely starter in anyone's first XI and two of whom wouldn't even make the squad if others are fit.

The likes of O'Hara, Noble and Pennant would be embarrassing alright. How many of these have even declared? None.

[DannyInvincible]

I think Keane is making a big deal out of something that is no more of a "problem" than it was when Jack Charlton was in charge or when Keane himself was playing for Ireland under McCarthy and Kerr. We've always had English or Scottish-born players in our squads and it's never diluted the sense of national pride fans have had in the team.

There is certainly no new "development" here, nor is there any indication whatsoever that it'll come to a point where we have to play "spot-the-Irishman". Out of our current 32-man squad for the Carling Nations Cup games, 23 are Irish-born, 4 are born to at least one Irish parent (making them Irish nationals from birth) and 5 are born to at least one Irish grandparent, including James McCarthy whose family very much consider themselves Irish. Compare this to our squad for the 1994 World Cup, for example, where 7 of the 22-man squad were born in Ireland. 6 of our World Cup 1990 squad were Irish-born. Our 2002 World Cup squad had 12 Irish-born players out of the 23. For anyone worried about a dilution of identity or something, things have never been so good. It's not even a uniquely Irish phenomenon where our squads regularly feature players born beyond our shores. In fact, it could be argued that our squads featuring significant numbers of members of the Irish diaspora is very much in line with what Irish identity is; emigration having had such an impact on our history as a nation.

Who's Keane referring to when he says: "They are saying – I probably can’t get capped for another country so I’ll pick Ireland. Players have said that. I know they have."

Jermaine Pennant, who isn't even in our squad?

[peadar1987]

I don't think a lot of people appreciate how strong the diaspora still identify with Ireland, especially in Scotland. Many see themselves as Irish first, Scottish second, even in the third generation.

[Fixer82]

According to google 93.1fm is a Christian chanell. Is Roy born again?g

[Fixer82]

Found link for it
http://sport931.podbean.com/2011/05/07/roy-keane-in-conversation-with-eric-goulding/