Roy Keane

[pineapple stu]

True, although it was branded as such.

https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/1441820/original/?width=333&version=1441820

[seanfhear]

It was the term often used by British media and politicians for the Republic after partition to describe the 26 counties.

Ireland was the island and Éire was the 36 counties.

I actually like it personally, especially as we now have an all-island 32 county team.

But I guess for some it has historic, imperialist connotations. Which may seem strange as it is as Gaeilge.

My Father who is an ardent Irish speaker hates it being called Éire in this context, especially when said in an English accent It complicated enough with adding in 4 more Counties !

[pineapple stu]

Fingal, Dún Laoghaire, Warwickshire and New York, no?

[Fixer82]

people still say Italia 90.
it says Eire on the jersey

We're allowed refer to ourselves as Éire but the Brits aren't

In a British accent it essentially means Free State

[Bielsa´s irish]

ok. Yeah well im not english, and im not gonna become on of those Queen kissers anytime soon, so thanks for the info.

I always thought that name was ......Irlanda in gaelic....., because we knew that. In spanish-castellano culture in Francisco Franco (who was a celt from Galizia) Spain and then with the PSOE of Felipe González and later the pseudo-basque Aznar and those creeps, was that name to describe the irish free country from the ulster.

In Latinamérica is the same in that context sort of speak, specially where they speak the purer spanish language or under the dominance of the country Spain as a whole (Mexico. Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua. El Salvador.
Cuba.Colombia. Bolivia. Ecuador, Chile. Venezuela. Puerto Rico. .... California Texas and New Mexico).

In Argentina we always call them Ireland, but when you reached the Euro 88 and 90 the used in panini and Italy 90 tv shows as "É__E" we were perplexed as kids.
I remember, I was 12 years old kid watching old canal 7 ATC, the public television, and they broadcasted the whole tournament, and they had "el flaco" César Menotti as football analist, he said Ireland could win it at the time with Liam Brady I remember.

[Diggs246]

What’s wrong with using Eire? it is the actually name of the country (according to the constitution), I’d argue that’s as valid as whatever title the FAI registered with FIFA to appease the IFA or whatever the history was...
No sorry after the republic of Ireland Act. It the republic of Ireland and it ain't Eire or the free state or hibernia

[Fixer82]

ok. Yeah well im not english, and im not gonna become on of those Queen kissers anytime soon, so thanks for the info.

I always thought that name was ......Irlanda in gaelic....., because we knew that. In spanish-castellano culture in Francisco Franco (who was a celt from Galizia) Spain and then with the PSOE of Felipe González and later the pseudo-basque Aznar and those creeps, was that name to describe the irish free country from the ulster.

In Latinamérica is the same in that context sort of speak, specially where they speak the purer spanish language or under the dominance of the country Spain as a whole (Mexico. Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua. El Salvador.
Cuba.Colombia. Bolivia. Ecuador, Chile. Venezuela. Puerto Rico. .... California Texas and New Mexico).



Franco wasn't a 'Celt'.

I assume you're alluding to him being from Galicia where the ancient Milesians emigrated from to Ireland.
It's a big jump to call him a Celt (in the cultural sense of the word) or even a Gael.

[pineapple stu]

It's not the Republic of Ireland. That's the description of the state, not its name. It'd be akin to referring to the French Republic or the German Republic. It's a correct description of the state, but it's not the state name.

We're RoI in FIFA because the North had baggsies on "Ireland" and wouldn't give it up. FIFA's solution was that neither association could use Ireland (which seems a fair way to settle a debate between squabbling kids)

From wiki, "The government of the United Kingdom used the name "Eire" (without the diacritic) and, from 1949, "Republic of Ireland", for the state; it was not until the 1998 Good Friday Agreement that it used the name Ireland" - so you can see there is again an element there that their long-term refusal to use the term "Ireland" is linked to their claim on the North.

[geysir]

I am Ireland.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I didnt know that one, but I remember when Ireland kept runner up from Netherlands in the draw, the little stripe said REP. OF IRELAND/ NETHERLANDS instead of Holland.
In hispanic terms we alwyas say the name "Holanda " never "Países Bajos".

[Bielsa´s irish]

back to topic, why "chippy" Brady is so critical of Roy?

[John83]

I didnt know that one, but I remember when Ireland kept runner up from Netherlands in the draw, the little stripe said REP. OF IRELAND/ NETHERLANDS instead of Holland.
In hispanic terms we alwyas say the name "Holanda " never "Países Bajos".
Holland is a province. The proper name is Netherlands.

[backstothewall]

My 2 cents is that Bielsa isn't a ***** from the home counties talking about Eire in a derogatory way. He doesn't think of the 26 counties as being the bit of Ireland where the guys trying to shoot him got away to in his squaddie days.

He's a South American doing his best in a second language. What about we show some of that famous céad míle fáilte spirit and give the guy a break?

My answer to the question asked, which unlike almost every other post in the past few days is actually on topic for the thread, is that I'm not aware of any particular issue between Brady and Roy Keane. Liam Brady is a fairly dour character though. He's a bit like that about everybody.

[Bielsa´s irish]

My 2 cents is that Bielsa isn't a ***** from the home counties talking about Eire in a derogatory way. He doesn't think of the 26 counties as being the bit of Ireland where the guys trying to shoot him got away to in his squaddie days.

He's a South American doing his best in a second language. What about we show some of that famous céad míle fáilte spirit and give the guy a break?

My answer to the question asked, which unlike almost every other post in the past few days is actually on topic for the thread, is that I'm not aware of any particular issue between Brady and Roy Keane. Liam Brady is a fairly dour character though. He's a bit like that about everybody.

I know a bit about the Ulster because I had to make a "coloquio" at University for "international politics" I chose a topic and talked like 20 minutes to my teacher about it with something related to" the troubles" I did that "coloquio" like 22 years ago 1998, 1997.
I read a bit, plus the songs from u2 are very very popular, u2 is seeing down here as an anti english rock band. A kind of protest music mixed up with rock and roll culture.
But I didnt know the difference between those two words, Eire was used in football as a football term in southamerica, once you qualified for the EUROCOPA 88 and wc.
As I said the anecdote of Menotti, he had rated this irish team to win the EUROCOPA, as a shocking surprise by the time, because they were an enygma for international football

[Eminence Grise]

No sorry after the republic of Ireland Act. It the republic of Ireland and it ain't Eire or the free state or hibernia

That old chestnut.


It's not the Republic of Ireland. That's the description of the state, not its name. It'd be akin to referring to the French Republic or the German Republic. It's a correct description of the state, but it's not the state name.

What PS says. And here's the proof (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1948/act/22/enacted/en/print.html) -

Number 22 of 1948
THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND ACT, 1948.
AN ACT TO REPEAL THE EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY (EXTERNAL RELATIONS) ACT, 1936 , TO DECLARE THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE STATE SHALL BE THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND, AND TO ENABLE THE PRESIDENT TO EXERCISE THE EXECUTIVE POWER OR ANY EXECUTIVE FUNCTION OF THE STATE IN OR IN CONNECTION WITH ITS EXTERNAL RELATIONS. [21st December, 1948.]
BE IT ENACTED BY THE OIREACHTAS AS FOLLOWS:—
1.—The Executive Authority (External Relations) Act, 1936 (No. 58 of 1936), is hereby repealed.
2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.
3.—The President, on the authority and on the advice of the Government, may exercise the executive power or any executive function of the State in or in connection with its external relations.
4.—This Act shall come into operation on such day as the Government may by order appoint.
5.—This Act may be cited as The Republic of Ireland Act, 1948.

And that is it. The entire act. The real thrust of which isn't the second clause - it's the first.

No mention of the People's Republic of Cork. What would Roy say? Clumsy segue, but back on topic!

[youngirish]

My 2 cents is that Bielsa isn't a ***** from the home counties talking about Eire in a derogatory way. He doesn't think of the 26 counties as being the bit of Ireland where the guys trying to shoot him got away to in his squaddie days.

He's a South American doing his best in a second language. What about we show some of that famous céad míle fáilte spirit and give the guy a break?

My answer to the question asked, which unlike almost every other post in the past few days is actually on topic for the thread, is that I'm not aware of any particular issue between Brady and Roy Keane. Liam Brady is a fairly dour character though. He's a bit like that about everybody.

Bielsa is just some 15 year old stoner from Finglas getting a buzz by winding everyone up through a VPN that has tricked Tets into believing his IP originates from Argentina. How would anyone in Argentina know Brady was called chippy? Why would anyone care?

[backstothewall]

How would anyone in Argentina know Brady was called chippy?

Wikipedia

[tetsujin1979]

None of this has anything to do with Roy Keane, or Liam Brady.
The team name is Republic of Ireland, and is the name used by FIFA. It is almost always shortened to Ireland in discussions on the forum. The "Republic of" prefix is usually added for clarifications in discussions relating to the Northern Ireland side.
Nobody refers to it as "Eire", and any further uses of it will be deleted without warning.

Let's all move on.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Bielsa is just some 15 year old stoner from Finglas getting a buzz by winding everyone up through a VPN that has tricked Tets into believing his IP originates from Argentina. How would anyone in Argentina know Brady was called chippy? Why would anyone care?
No , Liam Brady was one of my childhood heroes from the Calcio with El Diego and Platini, Gullit, Bruno Conti....sunday morning matches at Sampdoria and Inter, following Diego's devotion of carrer in il calcio italiano.
There was Rummenigge, Careca, Scirea, Franco Baresi, "uncle" Bergomi......etc

[Bielsa´s irish]

Bielsa is just some 15 year old stoner from Finglas getting a buzz by winding everyone up through a VPN that has tricked Tets into believing his IP originates from Argentina. How would anyone in Argentina know Brady was called chippy? Why would anyone care?
I dont know how old are you, but you havent any idea what all those players meant to my generation. The only internantional matches that we could see from abroad were the Calcio, or La Liga when Diego was the hype, even at Seville in 92. Then the interantional euros and wc, euro 88 was the first broadcasted for free and the 92 sweden for free on argentina tv. Some odd friendlies, and the cup clubs finals.. Remember when Man U defeated Barcelona with a lovely brace from Mark Leslie Hugues with denis irwin in that team, mcclair, zubi, koeman bakero etc

[tetsujin1979]

Any further posts unrelated to Roy Keane will be deleted

[OwlsFan]

So possibility of him going back to Sunderland, one of the "sleeping giants" of the 1st division. He made no comment last night https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/watch-roy-keane-addresses-sunderland-return-speculation-live-on-itv/ar-AATuAO2?ocid=uxbndlbing but he would have his work cut out for them getting them directly promoted with Rotherham and Wigan both on a roll but there are always the play offs.

[third policeman]

So possibility of him going back to Sunderland, one of the "sleeping giants" of the 1st division. He made no comment last night https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/watch-roy-keane-addresses-sunderland-return-speculation-live-on-itv/ar-AATuAO2?ocid=uxbndlbing but he would have his work cut out for them getting them directly promoted with Rotherham and Wigan both on a roll but there are always the play offs.

The triumph of hope over experience.

[Snapshot]

It's an ideal opportunity for Keane. Sunderland are comfortably in the play-off positions and just two points from an automatic promotion slot. The fans there still think of him positively. In his pundit/comedian role he's liberal with the put-up-or-shut-up line. It's time to put down the prawn sandwich and heed it.

[irishfan86]

Well good luck to him. Would be good to have him back in management from an Irish perspective. Say what you will about Roy but he always championed Irish players and took chances on them during his first spell at Sunderland.

[Supreme feet]

Well good luck to him. Would be good to have him back in management from an Irish perspective. Say what you will about Roy but he always championed Irish players and took chances on them during his first spell at Sunderland.

He wasn't long retired from playing at that stage, and tended to sign players he'd shared a dressing room with, lads he knew and trusted. He knew Connolly, Andy Reid, Harte and Kavanagh from his Irish days; Miller, McShane, Bardsley, Higginbotham, Richardson, Evans and Yorke from Man Utd; Stan Varga from Celtic.

When he had to sign players based on his own scouting, it all went downhill.

[Fixer82]

He wasn't long retired from playing at that stage, and tended to sign players he'd shared a dressing room with, lads he knew and trusted. He knew Connolly, Andy Reid, Harte and Kavanagh from his Irish days; Miller, McShane, Bardsley, Higginbotham, Richardson, Evans and Yorke from Man Utd; Stan Varga from Celtic.

When he had to sign players based on his own scouting, it all went downhill.

Very true. I remember him singing a well past it Andy Cole and thinking, that's not a very forward thinking signing. He seemed to be a bit blinded by his own loyalty maybe.
Who was his best signing I wonder?
Connolly, Reid and Evans all did well for him.

[seanfhear]

He wasn't long retired from playing at that stage, and tended to sign players he'd shared a dressing room with, lads he knew and trusted. He knew Connolly, Andy Reid, Harte and Kavanagh from his Irish days; Miller, McShane, Bardsley, Higginbotham, Richardson, Evans and Yorke from Man Utd; Stan Varga from Celtic.

When he had to sign players based on his own scouting, it all went downhill.
Maybe Keane needed a much better back up team on all fronts ~ maybe if he gets another chance in management, he might rectify this, coz if he doesn’t I can't see him lasting long in management again.

[tetsujin1979]

Very true. I remember him singing a well past it Andy Cole and thinking, that's not a very forward thinking signing. He seemed to be a bit blinded by his own loyalty maybe.
Who was his best signing I wonder?
Connolly, Reid and Evans all did well for him.

Was there a story that he signed the player that came to his room after the team meeting in Saipan, or am I completely misremembering that?
It's in Keane's first book that six players came to his room and said they agreed with what he said, but they wanted to play in the World Cup, and he ended up signing some of them for Sunderland?

[JR89]

He wasn't long retired from playing at that stage, and tended to sign players he'd shared a dressing room with, lads he knew and trusted. He knew Connolly, Andy Reid, Harte and Kavanagh from his Irish days; Miller, McShane, Bardsley, Higginbotham, Richardson, Evans and Yorke from Man Utd; Stan Varga from Celtic.

When he had to sign players based on his own scouting, it all went downhill.

He will definitely need a good backroom team working with him. It's not 2006 anymore and Sunderland are bringing in Roy Keane the lad whose been assistant manager or TV pundit the last decade rather than the legendary player whose just retired from playing.

Hopefully it works out for him because other than Jim Goodwin I can't think of another Irish manager currently employed since Hughton and Mick were sacked.

[third policeman]

He will definitely need a good backroom team working with him. It's not 2006 anymore and Sunderland are bringing in Roy Keane the lad whose been assistant manager or TV pundit the last decade rather than the legendary player whose just retired from playing.

Hopefully it works out for him because other than Jim Goodwin I can't think of another Irish manager currently employed since Hughton and Mick were sacked.

John Sheridan

[Fixer82]

John Sheridan

Who's he managing this week?

Let's not forget, Owen Coyle is managing Jamshedpur

[tetsujin1979]

Who's he managing this week?

Let's not forget, Owen Coyle is managing Jamshedpur

Sheridan is back with Oldham again, his fifth time in charge

[Fixer82]

Was there a story that he signed the player that came to his room after the team meeting in Saipan, or am I completely misremembering that?
It's in Keane's first book that six players came to his room and said they agreed with what he said, but they wanted to play in the World Cup, and he ended up signing some of them for Sunderland?

Connolly was definitely one of them. Kavanagh and Reid weren't in the WC2002 squad so not them. Possibly Ian Harte

[Trequartista20]

Keane's been out of management a long, long time and remains defiantly old school in his approach to the game. it doesn't look like the most progressive move by Sunderland's on the face of it. Maybe the thinking is that Keane can provide the short, sharp shock required to get the club over the promotion line in the same way that the similarly fiery and combustible Di Canio managed to keep them in the PL several years ago.

Anyway, it certainly wouldn't be dull...

[Supreme feet]

Connolly was definitely one of them. Kavanagh and Reid weren't in the WC2002 squad so not them. Possibly Ian Harte

Gary Breen.

[dr_peepee]

Breen was at Sunderland before Keane got there. Think he might have even left before Keane was on board.

[dr_peepee]

I think he has unfinished business in Management. He hasn’t made it easy on himself though. Too loose lipped on specific people and incidents will undermine future dressing rooms. His transfer record after Sunderland (once he burned through his Rolodex of former Celtic, United and Ireland contacts) wasn’t great.

Sunderland is as good an opportunity as he’s going to get at this point. He needs to get a “Jim Smith” type number 2 on his back room team.

I hope he gets the Job.

[Supreme feet]

Breen was at Sunderland before Keane got there. Think he might have even left before Keane was on board.

Sorry, meant that Gary Breen was, along with Connolly, the other player who came to Keane's room that night in Saipan, to say they agreed with him. He'd left Sunderland the summer before Keane arrived.

[tetsujin1979]

I think you're right about Connolly, Cunningham might have been another.

[Supreme feet]

I have the book on the shelf here! Alan Kelly, Staunton and Quinn went up to his room first, they weren't warmly received. McAteer and Harte went in to say goodbye and offer best wishes. Connolly and Breen went up later; they were the ones who apparently said 'We agreed with everything you said, Roy, but we want to play in the World Cup.'

[Fixer82]

I think you're right about Connolly, Cunningham might have been another.

Roy has (surprisingly) taken many pot shots at Cunningham in the media over the past few years so doubt it was him.
Not sure what Kenny ever did to him other than being captain when Roy returned

[seanfhear]

Did Sunderland ‘ play ‘ Roy Keane or did Roy Keane ‘ play ‘ Sunderland or did both of them play the media and the public. If Roy is not good enough for Sunderland at this time then I can’t see there being too much demand for him in the future.

[irishfan86]

It might have come down to money. You'd expect he's one of the higher paid pundits and as a League 1 club you'd imagine Sunderland won't be necessarily looking to pay top dollar. My theory was they'd pay him a higher fee so he'd be the main attraction in making Sunderland 'Til I Die even more popular than it already is. Every football fan in the world would watch that.

[Fixer82]

It might have come down to money. You'd expect he's one of the higher paid pundits and as a League 1 club you'd imagine Sunderland won't be necessarily looking to pay top dollar. My theory was they'd pay him a higher fee so he'd be the main attraction in making Sunderland 'Til I Die even more popular than it already is. Every football fan in the world would watch that.

Good point. That may have been one of the criteria of signing a contract: that the new documentary has ‘access all areas’.
Can’t imagine Roy going for that.

[Diggs246]

I can. He was promoting the sale of his book while the rest of the management team were preparing for the Germany victory. He happily dressed as a leprechaun for a walkers crisps ad.
He plays the Simon Cowell bad guy pundit every day on tv
I would say Sunderland couldn't get near his salary expectations and that was it

[Fixer82]

I can. He was promoting the sale of his book while the rest of the management team were preparing for the Germany victory. He happily dressed as a leprechaun for a walkers crisps ad.
He plays the Simon Cowell bad guy pundit every day on tv
I would say Sunderland couldn't get near his salary expectations and that was it

They were all situations Roy had control over

[Diggs246]

They were all situations Roy had control over

So? Are u saying he wouldn't take the Manchester Utd job, if there was a documentary team in place?
Because I think he would wear a grass shirt and Dublin Jersey if he was asked.

[JR89]

Sunderland till I die hasn't been filmed since the end of the 18/19 season, nearly three years now.

[irishfan86]

You really think they wouldn't bring the show back if Roy Keane was available?