Roy Keane

[DeLorean]

Awful human being? Because he made a joke about somebody who had a heart attack? The Haaland incident? You'd think the guy went on a mad raping and killing spree. He's not a saint but he certainly isn't the maniac that some portions of the media portray him to be.

Well said. My God when you're calling the likes of Roy Keane an awful human being I think it's time to get out more. I have a book at home- The World's most Notorious Men, Stalin, Hitler, Ted Bundy, makes me wonder will Keano be in the updated edition!!

[gustavo]

Well said. My God when you're calling the likes of Roy Keane an awful human being I think it's time to get out more. I have a book at home- The World's most Notorious Men, Stalin, Hitler, Ted Bundy, makes me wonder will Keano be in the updated edition!!

Ah now he's worse than Hitler , you wouldn't see Hitler making any delibrately career threatening tackles.

[NeilMcD]

Like it or not, he's a journalist (or columnist at least) now, and as an ex team mate of RK's is going to be asked for his opinion. My point is that it's Keane that's made all the running in this feud, Cascarino has said very little in real terms. The fact is that if, as a manager RK has developed a reputation as a bully who sulks when he doesn't get his own way then someone who has experience of this who works in the media is entitled to comment on it.

You can't compare like with like when talking about journalists and football managers in any case.

And I would have had the utmost admiration for Keane's ability as a player, I just think he's a pretty awful human being.

Well I have little admiration for Cascarino's ability as a player and I think he is a much worse human being than Roy Keane. I would much rather live my life the way Keane has than the way Cascarino has. I totally disagree that Keane has made most of the running in relation to this. He has offered very little in relation to it. It has been Cascarino who has had loads to say on Keane not the other way around.

Why are journalists allowed to avoid the personal scrutiny that football managers must have.

When I hear or see a journalist writing I always try to find out where they are coming from and what is their agenda and do they fit the criteria that they want the subject of their article to fit.

[danonion]

Awful human being? Because he made a joke about somebody who had a heart attack? The Haaland incident? You'd think the guy went on a mad raping and killing spree. He's not a saint but he certainly isn't the maniac that some portions of the media portray him to be.

Keane may not be an "awful human being" but he clearly lacks class. I am so sick of him now and I think Hughes and Bruce can safely say they have accomplished things, its not all about trophies. At the very least they accomplished not spending 100 million pounds over two years on pretty bad players.

I did not read Cascarino's book and I'm not inclined to comment on his character but I know which of the two was a more dedicated player on the field.

[NeilMcD]

Nobody mentioned Saipan yet..... whew.
It feels like a long long way back.

Whatever happens in a dressing room should stay in the dressing room
but the Keane intimidation on Cas while he was trying to do his business in the sanctity of the public toilet is fair game for Cas to illustrate the bully in the boy.

http://holyroodpr.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/cascarino1.jpg?w=299

Well just like Cascarino's alleged assault on his wife is alleged, this intimidation is alleged and unlike Cascarino's the police are not investigating it.

[NeilMcD]

Keane may not be an "awful human being" but he clearly lacks class. I am so sick of him now and I think Hughes and Bruce can safely say they have accomplished things, its not all about trophies. At the very least they accomplished not spending 100 million pounds over two years on pretty bad players.

I did not read Cascarino's book and I'm not inclined to comment on his character but I know which of the two was a more dedicated player on the field.

I think you miss the point of Keanes so called attack on Hughes and Bruce. One it was not an attack and he was not saying they were bad managers he was just not falling for the hyperbole that the media wanted to place upon these managers. He would not even classify himself anywhere near these two guys at the moment in relation to experience and achievment as a manager. He just did not want to go down the road as saying they were successful when they have not won a trophy yet and two of them are out of a job and the other one is mid table at Wigan. We all know that success is relative but I think he is right, because the same media could be crucifying these guys next season and calling for Hughes and Bruce to be sacked. Put it this way I doubt Hughes or Bruce will fall out with him over it.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Well said. My God when you're calling the likes of Roy Keane an awful human being I think it's time to get out more. I have a book at home- The World's most Notorious Men, Stalin, Hitler, Ted Bundy, makes me wonder will Keano be in the updated edition!!

Fair enough lads, not a very nice human being then is that better? :rolleyes:

[DeLorean]

Fair enough lads, not a very nice human being then is that better? :rolleyes:

It's a bit girly, but ya I suppose it's an improvement;)

[danonion]

I think you miss the point of Keanes so called attack on Hughes and Bruce. One it was not an attack and he was not saying they were bad managers he was just not falling for the hyperbole that the media wanted to place upon these managers. He would not even classify himself anywhere near these two guys at the moment in relation to experience and achievment as a manager. He just did not want to go down the road as saying they were successful when they have not won a trophy yet and two of them are out of a job and the other one is mid table at Wigan. We all know that success is relative but I think he is right, because the same media could be crucifying these guys next season and calling for Hughes and Bruce to be sacked. Put it this way I doubt Hughes or Bruce will fall out with him over it.

I'm not missing any point. I never said it was an attack let alone a scathing one, I just thing he is bang out of line, and the manner in which he disagrees is rather disrespectful.

[Pauro 76]

Words from Cascarino...

"Roy Keane's got 'shocking' information about me? I'd like to know what that is. Tell the world, Roy. I've got nothing to hide. But I know plenty about you that would shock quite a few people. If Roy's trying to intimidate me, it won't work. You can't bully me, Roy - Keane versus Cascarino is a fight that will go the distance.

"As for him not respecting what I say, I couldn't give two hoots. I won't lose a minute's sleep. It's funny, I never had a fallout with Roy over a decade as Ireland team-mates, but as soon as I started writing my honest opinion about the way he behaves, he didn't like it.

"Roy needs to look at his own behaviour, not mine. He needs to ask why rumours spread within the game about why many players at Sunderland weren't happy while he was in charge there.

"He should look at why he left Sunderland in the lurch, just like he did with Ireland. Will the same thing happen at Ipswich?"

http://football365.com/mediawatch/0,17033,8749_5231928,00.html

Ding ding! Round One!

[as_i_say]

never heard anything on cascarino apparently assaulting his wife-very shocked to hear this though-any truth to it, was it recent?

[amaccann]

Even if Keane wasn't directly commenting on his fellow managers' abilities & instead the media hyperbole, he should be smart enough by now to know to keep his mouth shut, doubly so when talking about other personalities in the sport. The tabloids LIVE for even the slightest suggestion of a spat between professionals (look at the handbags with Benetiz all season), so Keane should know when platitudes are the answer. Though I also think Keane likes the sound of his own voice sometimes.

[Drumcondra 69er]

never heard anything on cascarino apparently assaulting his wife-very shocked to hear this though-any truth to it, was it recent?

Was reported in The Sun last December, wasn't reported anywhere else as far as I'm aware and there's been nothing about it since that I've seen....

Reading between the lines of the report it would seem that he arrived at the house and a row ensued, whether it was an actual assualt is a moot point. They'd been sepearted since earlier in the year.

[geysir]

Well just like Cascarino's alleged assault on his wife is alleged, this intimidation is alleged and unlike Cascarino's the police are not investigating it.
High horse moralising again?


CASCARINO CLEARED BUT NOW HEADS FOR DIVORCE
Sunday Mirror , Feb 8, 2009 by CIARAN O'RAGHALLAIGH

FORMER Ireland legend Tony Cascarino vowed last night to divorce his wife after she had him arrested for an alleged assault.

The former Celtic striker was nicked by cops at the family home last December after Virginie claimed Cascarino had threatened to kill her.

But detectives cleared Cas and told him last week he will not face any charges.

Tony, 42, who won 88 caps in his top-flight career, said: "It's going to end up in another divorce with kids involved again.

"It is unfortunate, it is messy and it was not needed.

I still can't understand it - how it got out of hand.

"The law is ridiculous that I can end up in jail on an accusation like that, it's just her word against mine.

"It shows you how stupid modern laws are that I can be handcuffed and taken out of my house to a police cell on an allegation that was totally false."

Cascarino thanked his friends and neighbours who stood by him during the ordeal of being under police investigation.
"It was a sad situation that developed but I didn't do anything wrong.
"My neighbours knew that and they were very supportive."

[Razors left peg]

Just like most threads that are about Roy Keane this one has become boring to read...its almost as bad as the threads about the North

[DeLorean]

Just like most threads that are about Roy Keane this one has become boring to read...its almost as bad as the threads about the North

Ya I'm headin over to the Stephen Ireland forum see what's new there:D

[Razors left peg]

Ya I'm headin over to the Stephen Ireland forum see what's new there:D
:D :D

[Stuttgart88]

Keane vs Cascarino? I wouldn't like my son to turn out like either of them.

[Mr A]

Ya I'm headin over to the Stephen Ireland forum see what's new there:D

We should have a separate 'Cork Traitor' just for the two of them. :)

[Morbo]

Off Ireland's foremost traitor goes again, insulting people for the hell of it:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/keane-ive-no-respect-for-tony-cascarino-1718473.html

This from the man who felt it necessary to have a go at Shay Given for the mortal offence of always being available for Ireland when fit. Classy guy.

Keane justs wants to appear to have very high standards by dismissing the achievements of others, I'm pretty sure he just wants people to think "Wow Roy sure has high standards that he doesn't consider these guys good managers, thats such a great winning mentality, I'm sure he will be a top manager" and some will probably buy into it whilst others will just think he is a tedious c*nt

[eirebhoy]

Rubbish, there was a huge amount of people travelling over nearly every week ffs. I know one of the tour operators running trips and he made a fortune out of it. Plus a massive casual interest from your average Man U fan who went from despising Sunderland when McCarthy was the manager to having them as their 2nd favourite team,

A "paranoid bunch". :rolleyes:
Roy Keane is bigger than any club for a lot of people in this country. They were Roy Keane fans, not Sunderland fans and none of them would have claimed to be. Of course they wanted Sunderland to win but success for Sunderland obviously meant success for Keane.

[DeLorean]

Keane justs wants to appear to have very high standards by dismissing the achievements of others, I'm pretty sure he just wants people to think "Wow Roy sure has high standards that he doesn't consider these guys good managers, thats such a great winning mentality, I'm sure he will be a top manager" and some will probably buy into it whilst others will just think he is a tedious c*nt

You might be right....but then you might be talking out of your hole. Truth is we (including you) don't know what's going on inside his head so we can only speculate. Because people believe that he means what he says doesn't mean that they are buying into anything, it's not like all these people are totally naive and you are ahead of the game- ah keano I see what you're up to, nobody else can but I have you pegged!! A bit patronising tbh.

[SunderlandBohs]

Roy Keane is just bigger than any club for a lot of people.
What a stupid thing to say? I hope you're not saying Keane is bigger than Sunderland or Ipswich?

[DeLorean]

What a stupid thing to say? I hope you're not saying Keane is bigger than Sunderland or Ipswich?

I think the "for a lot of people" part was an important part of his sentance making your response a really stupid thing to say

[SunderlandBohs]

I think the "for a lot of people" was an important part of his sentance making your response a really stupid thing to say
Hows it a stupid response? Why do you believe Keane is bigger than Sunderland or Ipswich?

[DeLorean]

Are you serious? he said Keane is more important to a lot of Irish people than Sunderland or Ipswich, not that Keane is more important than Sunderland or Ipswich full stop

[Razors left peg]

Roy Keane is bigger than any club for a lot of people in this country. They were Roy Keane fans, not Sunderland fans and none of them would have claimed to be. Of course they wanted Sunderland to win but success for Sunderland obviously meant success for Keane.

Id go along with that, as a Keane fan I wanted Sunderland to do well when he was in charge and didnt really care about them after he left unless Andy Reid scored or something and Im sure I will will watch Ipswich more closely now that Keane has taken charge there even though I always would have kept an eye on them anyway because of Garvan and other irish lads there

[Greenbod]

Well just like Cascarino's alleged assault on his wife is alleged, this intimidation is alleged and unlike Cascarino's the police are not investigating it.


Other than being a poker player (What's wrong with that??), being the victim of false allegations from his wife and unproven innuendo from Roy Keane, what did Cascarino actually ever do to deserve all the moralizing?

[Greenbod]

Though I also think Keane likes the sound of his own voice sometimes.

This about sums it up......he's become like a bitchy schoolgirl......using every opportunity to have a sly dig at his former classmates.

[bennocelt]

Please Neil, give the moral high ground BS a rest, Keane essentially assualted a fellow pro in a pre-meditated fashion and ended his career. Your line about Cascarino smacks of Dunphy's laughable insult thrown at Rod Liddle when he dared criticise RK ('I'll tell you who wrote the article Bill, Rod Liddle, the guy who left his wife for a young one!'). Amusing yes but not serious debate.

.

well i think it does, it kind of tells you somehting about the moral fibre of the guy - anyway he is a **** (liddle that is)

about Keane - I hope it works out, I find it hard to dislike "Our Roy":)

as for Lawton - he is just a good writer but not a good football analyist IMHO, like Humphreys and David Walsh - maybe they should write about politics or something else...........and leave football to us the fans

[bennocelt]

High horse moralising again?


CASCARINO CLEARED BUT NOW HEADS FOR DIVORCE
Sunday Mirror , Feb 8, 2009 by CIARAN O'RAGHALLAIGH


The former Celtic striker was nicked by cops at the family home last December after Virginie claimed Cascarino had threatened to kill her.



."

just a chuckle:)

[NeilMcD]

Other than being a poker player (What's wrong with that??), being the victim of false allegations from his wife and unproven innuendo from Roy Keane, what did Cascarino actually ever do to deserve all the moralizing?

He is a poker player now and fair play to him. But he used to be a poker player who played games where he was blindfolded in a van driven to the game and then blind folded again when he was leaving. Just like something out of the Sopranos.

In addition he lived in France and his wife lived in England and while in France he started seeing a French girl and had a child with her and lived with her and never told his wife bang in England. He continued to lead this double existence for a year or two.

Subsequently this second wife, the french girl has made allegations against him that he threatened to kill her and assaulted her which have been dropped.


In relation to Roy Keane what is the difference between Roy Keanes innuendo and Cascarino's innnuendo about Keane. They are both characters I woudl not want to babysit my kids or take my daughter out.

[Stuttgart88]

Too much was made of Keane's remarks about Bruce & Hughes, or certainly the sub-headlines were misleading.

He said neither was successful, which he defined as winning trophies. I'd agree with that, with qualification. But he didn't say neither was bad, in fact he complimented a lot of what they did. His remarks were in response to a question like "how come so many of Fergie's early 90s players went on to be such successful managers?". I think he was putting the question down, not the subjects.

[NeilMcD]

Spot on Stuttgart thats exactly what I was trying to say earlier but you have put it more succinctly.

[SkStu]

Too much was made of Keane's remarks about Bruce & Hughes, or certainly the sub-headlines were misleading.

He said neither was successful, which he defined as winning trophies. I'd agree with that, with qualification. But he didn't say neither was bad, in fact he complimented a lot of what they did. His remarks were in response to a question like "how come so many of Fergie's early 90s players went on to be such successful managers?". I think he was putting the question down, not the subjects.

its a pretty narrow scope for success though isnt it? How many current premiership managers have won trophies? Is Moyes an unsuccessful manager despite the great jobs he has done with Everton & Preston simply because he doesnt have a trophy?

Im not having a go, its just a general question and i think that its not as simple as Keane seems to believe it is.

[eirebhoy]

Too much was made of Keane's remarks about Bruce & Hughes, or certainly the sub-headlines were misleading.

He said neither was successful, which he defined as winning trophies. I'd agree with that, with qualification. But he didn't say neither was bad, in fact he complimented a lot of what they did. His remarks were in response to a question like "how come so many of Fergie's early 90s players went on to be such successful managers?". I think he was putting the question down, not the subjects.
He also said something a few years ago about having to win the world cup to be "world class". I think he said Barthez was the only world class player of one of the Man Utd teams.

So I wouldn't read too much into what he said about Bruce, Hughes, etc.

[geysir]

Are you serious? he said Keane is more important to a lot of Irish people than Sunderland or Ipswich, not that Keane is more important than Sunderland or Ipswich full stop

Sure most of us didn't know where Ipswich was on the map.
Now, I know Sunderland is away to the right of Liverpool and up a bit.

All thanks to Roy.

[DeLorean]

Maybe the likes of Moyes aren't successful though despite the great job he's done. Keane comes from the Brian Clough school of thought where little clubs do win big prizes. Different times it must be said but Pompey did win the FA Cup last year. Maybe also he means that if Bruce/Hughes etc were actually successful they wouldn't still be at mid table Premier League teams but at much bigger clubs. I'm not saying he's right by the way but will the world really remember Bruce and Hughes as managers if they don't achieve more than they have already? ok I am kind of agreeing with him!!:rolleyes:

[geysir]

Roy as a manager, must be suffering from huge sense of low self esteem.

I'm told that Roy did not rate Schmichel.
I wonder what did Peter do to deserve such a slight?

[SkStu]

took the jam out of his doughnut?

[cheifo]

Roys ultra professionalism and incredibly high standards are impossible to achieve for the people he works with and this is proably the source of his obvious inner conflict.

This... plus the fact that he is plain bonkers.

[Stuttgart88]

its a pretty narrow scope for success though isnt it? How many current premiership managers have won trophies? Is Moyes an unsuccessful manager despite the great jobs he has done with Everton & Preston simply because he doesnt have a trophy?

Im not having a go, its just a general question and i think that its not as simple as Keane seems to believe it is.
That's why I said "with qualification".

For a start, how many hundreds, if not thousands, of people fancy thenmselves as a football manger in the UK? Simply having one of the best 15 or 20 managerial jobs in the country would qualify as "success" by most people's standards.

I still think that Keane was far more putting the question down than he was his former colleagues. It's a subtle distinction. I'm not one who's inclined to give Keane the benefit of the doubt but in this instance I think the sub-headlines distorted what he said.

That's what fcuking annoys me about this whole Keane enigma thing. It's like the Stephen Ireland issue every time an Irish squad is announced. It's a bogus story that bears no meaning to the real issues around Irish football - no matter where your level of interest lies, the LOI, the ntaional team or something else - and if only the fcuking media would focus on issues of genuine importance or interest then maybe we'd start putting the house in order oproperly.

DCFC Steve posted elsewhere about a collective post-colonial complex we have and I agree. I'd much prefer if we Irish recognised that we have one of the world's best goalkeepers, a genuinely important player in the world's biggest football club and any other number of positive Irish stories this season than, like Cantona predicted, behaving like a mass of seagulls because a self-interested Irishman feeds us all sardines a few times a year from his trawler.

[Morbo]

You might be right....but then you might be talking out of your hole. Truth is we (including you) don't know what's going on inside his head so we can only speculate. Because people believe that he means what he says doesn't mean that they are buying into anything, it's not like all these people are totally naive and you are ahead of the game- ah keano I see what you're up to, nobody else can but I have you pegged!! A bit patronising tbh.
May be a bit patronising but that doesn't mean it isn't true, a lot of people are very naive tbh and take anything Keane says as gospel, I recall Given getting a bit of stick following Keanes comments about him a while back for example.
Of course I don't know with 100% certainty what he is thinking but that doesn't mean we can't speculate and it doesn't take a genius to reason that the only reason to dismiss your former teammates accomplishments is to maintain your reputation as a man who sets very high standards for himself, its isn't really that much of a stretch to come to that conclusion.

[Greenbod]

He is a poker player now and fair play to him. But he used to be a poker player who played games where he was blindfolded in a van driven to the game and then blind folded again when he was leaving. Just like something out of the Sopranos.

In addition he lived in France and his wife lived in England and while in France he started seeing a French girl and had a child with her and lived with her and never told his wife bang in England. He continued to lead this double existence for a year or two.

Subsequently this second wife, the french girl has made allegations against him that he threatened to kill her and assaulted her which have been dropped.


In relation to Roy Keane what is the difference between Roy Keanes innuendo and Cascarino's innnuendo about Keane. They are both characters I woudl not want to babysit my kids or take my daughter out.

Neil, I have no intention of getting involved in any gossip about Tony Cascarino's marital or extra-marital affairs......or indeed his blindfolded poker (whatever that's all about!). In fact, I have little or no interest in Cascarino's life at all except for the fact I supported him when he played for us and seemed to me to give his all.

Cascarino's journalistic utterances on Keane, on his tendancy to quit when things go against him, and on his inability to get on with and as a consequence manage people over the long term, ring true with me (from what I've read of them). It's Cascarino's job as a journalist to write about Keane's ability and suitability as a football manager. As something of an "insider" he's also ideally placed to do so. It's obvious he (Cascarino) similar to a lot of football people....(ie most of the Sunderland dressing room) doesn't like the guy, but you can read his stuff in that context.

Keane's job, for the moment is a football manager. I can't think of any other football manager who responds to a journalist's criticism by attacking the journalists private life or moral character. They normally have more pressing football matters on their mind. Why couldn't Keane just ignore the questions about Cascarino and talk about Ipswich and his plans for the football team?

I am fully in agreement with your last paragraph by the way........I already have a good babysitter:).

[Greenbod]

Too much was made of Keane's remarks about Bruce & Hughes, or certainly the sub-headlines were misleading.

He said neither was successful, which he defined as winning trophies. I'd agree with that, with qualification. But he didn't say neither was bad, in fact he complimented a lot of what they did. His remarks were in response to a question like "how come so many of Fergie's early 90s players went on to be such successful managers?". I think he was putting the question down, not the subjects.

I agree with you here....too much was made of these remarks, however Keane knew exactly what he was doing! I think it was you Stuttgart, who commented earlier that all of Keanes's public utterances are calculated. I agreed with you then also.

[irishfan86]

To say Keane is calculated is giving the man too much credit.

Calculated indicates that he is choosing the occasion carefully and for a reason- his time at Sunderland indicates to me that he's willing to give his opinion anytime someone puts a microphone in front of his face.

I think his first season at Sunderland was exceptional by any standard, and he did a good job to keep the team up in year two; however, once it came time to bring the team into mid-table level, it's hard to say he did anything but failed.

His inability to determine his best first XI, and his dire transfer record indicate to me that he is going to need some luck to become as successful as some of his biggest fans seem to believe.

[Stuttgart88]

Keane apologises to Bruce & Hughes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/24/roy-keane-ipswichtown

Roy Keane has sent a conciliatory message to Mark Hughes, his former Manchester United team-mate, expressing regret for questioning whether he had been "successful" as a manager.

Only a day back into management at Ipswich Town, Keane is also thought to have done the same with Steve Bruce, the Wigan Athletic manager, dispatching a text message that explained he had meant no offence and hoped to see him soon on good terms.

[NeilMcD]

Neil, I have no intention of getting involved in any gossip about Tony Cascarino's marital or extra-marital affairs......or indeed his blindfolded poker (whatever that's all about!). In fact, I have little or no interest in Cascarino's life at all except for the fact I supported him when he played for us and seemed to me to give his all.

Cascarino's journalistic utterances on Keane, on his tendancy to quit when things go against him, and on his inability to get on with and as a consequence manage people over the long term, ring true with me (from what I've read of them). It's Cascarino's job as a journalist to write about Keane's ability and suitability as a football manager. As something of an "insider" he's also ideally placed to do so. It's obvious he (Cascarino) similar to a lot of football people....(ie most of the Sunderland dressing room) doesn't like the guy, but you can read his stuff in that context.

Keane's job, for the moment is a football manager. I can't think of any other football manager who responds to a journalist's criticism by attacking the journalists private life or moral character. They normally have more pressing football matters on their mind. Why couldn't Keane just ignore the questions about Cascarino and talk about Ipswich and his plans for the football team?

I am fully in agreement with your last paragraph by the way........I already have a good babysitter:).

When did Keane attack Cascarino's private life. All the info I said about Cascarino, comes from Cascarino's own book. It is Cascarino who has said personal things about Keane not the other way around. Keane has hinted at stuff but not said, probably for fear that it would go to court I would say. Anyway as I said before my points are more of a point of attacking Cascarino than defending Keane. I think Cascarino is a low life and it irritates me that the media give him a job to pontificate about football and to offer opinions and judgements on peoples personality when his is so incredibly flawed.

[NeilMcD]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0425/1224245373324.html

Backs up what you and I have been sayin in relation to these comments Stutts.

[geysir]

When will the penny drop on people that Keane talks a lot of palpable self absorbed contradictatory nonsense.

I liked Mark Hughes's reply

"I think you guys [in the media] will all be happy that he is back because he's good value, bless him. But I'm not upset about it. Everyone knows what Roy's like and having him back in football makes it interesting for the Championship, so good luck to him. I'm not going to be coming into much contact with him, obviously."