Roy Keane

[Stuttgart88]

The new Ipswich owner is an arms dealer billionaire. Eh, isn't he a conference organiser? That's his official job anyway, but am not sure if you can get that rich from conferences.

[John83]

Me! Your the guy who thinks its a good plan to start a world cup with a rest:eek:
I've read Ferguson say that by April, Man Utd's training consists of light ball work - they have played and have to play so many games that there's no point doing any fitness training. Keane never walked out of that. But, hey, maybe those guys have no idea how to prepare for a league title run-in and the later stages of the Champions League.

[BigmanCas]

That's a good point actually. They're dropped points late in a few games that'd have them higher than they are.

James Lawton wrote a good piece on Keane in today's Indo.


Keane will come good

[Emmet7]

I've read Ferguson say that by April, Man Utd's training consists of light ball work - they have played and have to play so many games that there's no point doing any fitness training. Keane never walked out of that. But, hey, maybe those guys have no idea how to prepare for a league title run-in and the later stages of the Champions League.

Exactly. The heavy training in soccer, etc is usually before and during the winter. After that you just need a bit to tick over otherwise you burn out or get injured.

Heavy training two weeks before a major competition? It's a bit late then.

I'd say at the end of a long hard season, most professional soccer player's are ready to collapse and the last thing they need is more heavy training sessions or indeed any type of difficult training session.

Everyone needs a break now and again.

[soccerboy]

keane will improve ipswich...they have drawn more games than they have lost now,they are on the way to becoming hard to beat and once they start to close games out they will move up the table,i'd fancy them to finish around mid table

[weecountyman]

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.

[Stuttgart88]

he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporterThanks for that, didn't know.

[seanfhear]

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.
They might just bump Roy off rather than sack him. It would be easier than telling him he is sacked any way.

All of above is a joke in case anyone dangerous is reading it.:)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.

Those players that 'weren't up to it' had Ipswich comfortably midtable in a far better position then they are now under Jim Magilton who's doing alright at QPR now. Keane was backed with as much as if not more then he was at Sunderland money wise during the summer. Much as I'm not one to believe in knee jerk sackings the excuses being made for him that wouldn't be made for anyone else stagger me to be honest. It looks like his job is safe anyway so we'll see how the season pans out but there's no denying he's been a disaster so far.

[EastTerracer]

I have never been a big Keane fan but I respect him on football and his knowledge. Getting Sunderland from bottom of the table to top of the Championship, well has any other manager every done that, and I don't mean after the first round of games but after 6 rounds of games. It was a great achievement.

It might not be as impressive a timeline but Keane's time at Sunderland does have comparisons with Kevin Keegan's first term as manager of Newcastle. In February 1992 He took over a team second from bottom of the old 2nd division. He helped them avoid relegation that season and then walked away with the championship the following season (with David Kelly as top scorer). They then had a good run in the premier league (and should have won the title in 1996) but ultimately Keegan didn't prove himself at the highest level.

We will postpone judgment on RMK for a few years yet.

[weecountyman]

That's a good point Drumcondra, however each Manager wants to mould the team in his own image and from what I saw last season and this there isn't a whole lot of grit in the side, or at least they try to play too much football. I reckon he'll turn it around and he'll have the side back in the top flight in a couple of years.

[bennocelt]

I've read Ferguson say that by April, Man Utd's training consists of light ball work - they have played and have to play so many games that there's no point doing any fitness training. Keane never walked out of that. But, hey, maybe those guys have no idea how to prepare for a league title run-in and the later stages of the Champions League.

Yeah man thats obvious but rest as in not kicking a ball AT ALL!!!???
Not all footballers love playing golf every day

[Emmet7]

In fairness to Mick McCarthy, the players all had a long hard season and he was facing into a competition where they would have to play at least 3 tough competitive games in two weeks and possibly more games. If the players had niggly injuries, etc, rest was the best thing for them. And it would be better to get the p*ss-ups out of the way in Saipan, than during the actual world cup.

Keane was wrong imo. Players need downtime as much as everyone else. Ya can't expect them to be training all the time. I don't think training or not in Saipan would have made one ounce of difference to Ireland's performance at the WC.

As for Keane, you can't judge any manager after 10 games in charge. Give him at least a whole season and then decide if he is up to it or not. Some managers make great starts and then end up being useless. Some managers make bad starts but over time prove themselves. It took at least 3 years before Man Utd were a decent team under Alex Ferguson. It took him those 3 years to get rid of the drink culture at Man Utd and underperforming players, and build a new team and get them to gel together. Imagine if those fans and pundits who wanted Ferguson fired in his first few years got their way?

[seanfhear]

If Stan Staunton were getting the results Roy is getting then he would be getting some stick on here !


"Retreating to a safe distance as I expect a bombardment for that remark"

[Desyf]

If Stan Staunton were getting the results Roy is getting then he would be getting some stick on here !


"Retreating to a safe distance as I expect a bombardment for that remark"

Why ?
It's true.

[Den Perry]

Why ?
It's true.


Its not true.I think drawing away to Sheff Utd and Plymouth as manager of Ipswich is not comparable with losing 5-2 away to Cyprus as manager of Ireland - get real

[drummerboy]

Well playing league football for 3 months and failing to win even one game, is a dreadful record and just as bad as Stan achieved with Ireland. Keane is a failure

[macdermesser]

According to the Mirror, Peter Taylor is to be appointed as his number 2. I wonder is that a Keane appointment or from above. I suppose he has a bit of experience especially as a coach .. but his record is not exactly great ... made a bit of a haims of the Leicester job when he took over after Martin O Neill.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Its not true.I think drawing away to Sheff Utd and Plymouth as manager of Ipswich is not comparable with losing 5-2 away to Cyprus as manager of Ireland - get real

That's 2 results! Not managing to win a home match in the league over 7 games by the end of October is not comparable with beating Wales and Slovakia and drawing with the Czech Reublic and Germany. There's no escaping the fact that Keane's been a disaster this season so far, anyone in denial of that is embarrassing themselves.

[GypsyBlackCat]

The new Ipswich owner is an arms dealer billionaire. I don't think he's worried about a few thousand supporters staying away from a handful of matches.

What he should be worried about is his club slipping into League 1. (People on here will point out that Keane said he'd get Ipswich out the Championship in a year:D)

He'll leave Ipswich in a mess like he did with us and let someone else sort it out. And que his full range of excuses. "Promises were broken", "The players went behind my back", "There was interference from the outside", etc.

[seanfhear]

According to the Mirror, Peter Taylor is to be appointed as his number 2. I wonder is that a Keane appointment or from above. I suppose he has a bit of experience especially as a coach .. but his record is not exactly great ... made a bit of a haims of the Leicester job when he took over after Martin O Neill.
If this is true then it has to be worth a go.

There is definitely something wrong with the "Keane management team" whether its just Keane himself or not is a good question though.

Taylor was a great coach of the England under21s but has had mixed fortunes as a manager.

Maybe Taylor may be better as just a coach.

I hope it works out as I would like any Irishman to do well as a manager.

[GypsyBlackCat]

I have never been a big Keane fan but I respect him on football and his knowledge. Getting Sunderland from bottom of the table to top of the Championship, well has any other manager every done that, and I don't mean after the first round of games but after 6 rounds of games. It was a great achievement.

Likewise at Ipswich you have people writing Keane off. But if Ipswich jump up the table and are in contention for the Premiership, some of the people writing him off will be wearing Ipswich jerseys and telling everyone how they always believed in Keane, just as with Sunderland. When they hit a bad patch the same fans will be writing him off again and calling for his head.

He did what was expected of him. We weren't bottom when Keane took over. We were 3rd bottom after 5 games. Quinn got his only win the day before Keane took over. He did a good job getting Sunderland up but after that he did a poor job. £50m to keep a team up by the skin of its teeth.

Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Kevin Keegan, Steve Bruce, Phil Brown and Billy Davies did similar jobs with championship clubs. So its do-able.

[Den Perry]

That's 2 results! Not managing to win a home match in the league over 7 games by the end of October is not comparable with beating Wales and Slovakia and drawing with the Czech Reublic and Germany. There's no escaping the fact that Keane's been a disaster this season so far, anyone in denial of that is embarrassing themselves.

Ok, its been a disaster so far this season, but to compare him to that idiot Staunton as a manager is ludicrous.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Ok, its been a disaster so far this season, but to compare him to that idiot Staunton as a manager is ludicrous.

The original point made was that if Staunton was having a run of results like Keane is having he'd be getting slaughtered on here. That's undoubtedly true.

How you can disagree with that is what's ludicrous. Think about it.

[geysir]

Who is being ludicrous?
You are asking the impossible, Den is not a thinker.
Context is an alien concept to him.
An argument to him, means expressing an endless loop of scattered uncoordinated reactions, garnered together from the fringes of emotional impressions.

[noddy102]

Ok, its been a disaster so far this season, but to compare him to that idiot Staunton as a manager is ludicrous.

Ipswich Town FC, with its squad of players and its resources should not be bottom of the Championship and without a win. FACT.

[Scram]

Roy Keane's spending in bringing Sunderland to the Premiership was a Championship equivalent of what Chelsea spent in the Premiership. This has to be taken into consideration when lauding that "achievement".

He was then stuck with a lot of players not of Premiership quality who he paid over the odds for and he failed again in football.

I am so sick of the Keanophile media following his every move that I hope he does lose his job soon. I really don't care about Ipswich otherwise!

I do have an interest in Sunderland beacuse the chairman is a gentleman and an Irish legend (and also because of Andy Reid).

[Den Perry]

Who is being ludicrous?
You are asking the impossible, Den is not a thinker.
Context is an alien concept to him.
An argument to him, means expressing an endless loop of scattered uncoordinated reactions, garnered together from the fringes of emotional impressions.


Can you please explain your reasons for your idiotic rant above? I think "context" may be a concept that is alien to you

[back of the net]

Ok, its been a disaster so far this season, but to compare him to that idiot Staunton as a manager is ludicrous.

The good old "staunton is an idiot" reply......getting a bit sick of hearing that to be honest

Stan had a shocker as a manager of ireland ....but he had ZERO experience as a manager

Roy has experience as a manager in the championship already as well as the prem. Now dont get me wrong i realise that his experience is a couple of seasons old but its enough experience to allow ipswich a better record than 0 wins, 8 draws and 6 loses out of 14 league games considering he has been given cash to spend and that jim magilton had somewhat of a settled side pre roys arrival

I hope roy turns things round -cos the more irish managers the better ...but the staunton comparison is non - sensical imo considering one was a failed international manager with zero previous intl or club management experience and the other is a currently a club manager who has previous management experience and has been given transfer funds to boost his team.

This is not an anti roy point - all i am saying i just dont see the point in comparing the 2

[Den Perry]

The good old "staunton is an idiot" reply......getting a bit sick of hearing that to be honest

Stan had a shocker as a manager of ireland ....but he had ZERO experience as a manager

Roy has experience as a manager in the championship already as well as the prem. Now dont get me wrong i realise that his experience is a couple of seasons old but its enough experience to allow ipswich a better record than 0 wins, 8 draws and 6 loses out of 14 league games considering he has been given cash to spend and that jim magilton had somewhat of a settled side pre roys arrival

I hope roy turns things round -cos the more irish managers the better ...but the staunton comparison is non - sensical imo considering one was a failed international manager with zero previous intl or club management experience and the other is a currently a club manager who has previous management experience and has been given transfer funds to boost his team.

This is not an anti roy point - all i am saying i just dont see the point in comparing the 2

I am not one of the "Roy can't do anything wrong brigade". That said I do like him and have a lot more regard for him than Staunton.The Staunton comparison is non-sensical, however, that's why I had to respond.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I am not one of the "Roy can't do anything wrong brigade". That said I do like him and have a lot more regard for him than Staunton.The Staunton comparison is non-sensical, however, that's why I had to respond.

There was no comparrison per se though. The original poster simply stated that if Staunton had a record of 14 games, no wins, 8 draws and 6 defeats he'd be getting slaughtered.

Someone agreed with that and you replied 'It's not true' despite the fact that'd you'd probably be one of the people on here dishing out the stick! Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up......

[hooper74]

There was no comparrison per se though. The original poster simply stated that if Staunton had a record of 14 games, no wins, 8 draws and 6 defeats he'd be getting slaughtered.

Someone agreed with that and you replied 'It's not true' despite the fact that'd you'd probably be one of the people on here dishing out the stick! Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up......

i have to agree with den here,how could you possibly compare keane to staunton,keane got sunderland to the premiership where they remain,everything staunton touched was a disaster and i think this is simply the point den is trying to make,its not a keane can do no wrong rant,its simply putting it in context

[Drumcondra 69er]

i have to agree with den here,how could you possibly compare keane to staunton,keane got sunderland to the premiership where they remain,everything staunton touched was a disaster and i think this is simply the point den is trying to make,its not a keane can do no wrong rant,its simply putting it in context

FFS, no one has compared them!!

I'll ask a simple question. If Staunton was managing a team where he'd spent millions and hadn't managed a win in 14 games would he be getting stick on here? Yes or no please.

[Greenbod]

Yes..

[MeathDrog]

At least Stan has won a match with Darlo. :)

[Emmet7]

Keane is a proven manager and by proven I mean won promotion in the tough league that is the championship. And you don't have to be a premiership manager to be proven.

He started from a very low base at Sunderland. Comparing his spending with big four clubs is nonsensical. They had each spent close to 500 million euro by the time Keane started competing against them.

And having mediocre results at Sunderland, given their resources and budget is the equivalent of a top four team finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league.

I wish people would get real. Sunderland are not going to break into the Top 4 in the premiership. To finish in the top half of the premiership would be like winning the title for Sunderland.

He brought SUFC from rock bottom to mid table of the premier league in less than two years. That was a very good achievement.

As for Ipswich, he has little money to spend it appears and stuck with some god awful players. You cannot do much without money and with poor players. Just ask Mick McCarthy about that and his time at Sunderland.

[Acornvilla]

Keane is a proven manager and by proven I mean won promotion in the tough league that is the championship. And you don't have to be a premiership manager to be proven.

He started from a very low base at Sunderland. Comparing his spending with big four clubs is nonsensical. They had each spent close to 500 million euro by the time Keane started competing against them.

And having mediocre results at Sunderland, given their resources and budget is the equivalent of a top four team finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league.

I wish people would get real. Sunderland are not going to break into the Top 4 in the premiership. To finish in the top half of the premiership would be like winning the title for Sunderland.

He brought SUFC from rock bottom to mid table of the premier league in less than two years. That was a very good achievement.

As for Ipswich, he has little money to spend it appears and stuck with some god awful players. You cannot do much without money and with poor players. Just ask Mick McCarthy about that and his time at Sunderland.
probably a better ipswich squad than last season

[Razors left peg]

Keane has been poor this season but been unlucky too.I think if they get one win they could go on a bit of a run. I know there is alot of lads on here that are delighted to see Keane struggling as a manager now, and alot of the same lads are big Mick McCarthy fans. But lets not forget that McCarthy got a team relegated with the lowest points total ever in the Premiership. If people are saying now that this run with Ipswich is proof that Keane is a crap manager and is always going to be a crap manager, what did that run say about McCarthy?
Personally I think that it takes most people a couple of jobs before they get enough experience to become a decent manager because there is no comparison from their playing days and it takes time to adjust.I think Steve Bruce is the perfect example of this. Even McCarthy to a certain extent.He is a much better manager now than when he was manager at Millwall or his early Ireland days because he has learned along the way.


Annoyed at myself for commenting on this thread again but sometimes its hard to shut up:)

[brine3]

Nobody is denying that there shouldn't be heavy training at the end of the season. But they could have gone to Japan to do light training. Mick wanted to go to Saipan to acclimatise. The best place to acclimatise to Japan is... well, Japan. The Japanese had world class facilities prepared with pitches as smooth as snooker tables and the best medical facilities ready to deal with niggling injuries after a long season. Japan was the best place to go for a bit of light training. And the Japanese countryside is a wonderful place to relax. And they are a golf-mad country as well, so everyone is catered for. But Mick had a "mate" in Saipan who told him to go there. Mick didn't bother checking the place out himself. This is highly unprofessional.

Saipan is a jungle island thousands of kilometres away in a sweltering climate with a sun so strong that it's a wonder that Steve Staunton didn't die of heat stroke. The "pitch" they did their light training on was covered in potholes and Steve Finnan was injured by it. The players had to get changed under a tarpaulin tent!!! And in between light training they could have been studying the opposition. Do you think they were doing that in Saipan? They were in their hole. It's a shame Denis Irwin wasn't there rooming with Keane, as he could have complained to Denis about it. But Mick had long pestered Irwin into early international retirement...

[Morbo]

I have never been a big Keane fan but I respect him on football and his knowledge. Getting Sunderland from bottom of the table to top of the Championship, well has any other manager every done that, and I don't mean after the first round of games but after 6 rounds of games. It was a great achievement.

In fairness it was very early in the season and Sunderland's position in the table wasn't an accurate reflection of the team's ability or resources, if memory serves, they were the biggest spenders in the championship that season(could be wrong) so getting getting a team with Sunderland's resources promoted after an early season blip is hardly an amazing achievement, decent job yes but the way some people claim Keane saved them from being relegated to league 1 is ridiculous.

[EastTerracer]

But Mick had a "mate" in Saipan who told him to go there. Mick didn't bother checking the place out himself. This is highly unprofessional.

I thought that Saipan was a recommendation from Ray Tracey which the FAI endorsed having sent a couple of people out to check it out. Not absolving Mick of any responsibility here but I think it is a little unfair to pin it on him alone.

All of the other players were aware that Saipan would be a very light workload (Roy himself suggested that maybe he missed that briefing as he joined the squad late after Niall Quinn's testimonial). I distinctly remember Shay Given saying it was very hot but a good place to relax.

Going to Saipan was a weird decision and not a wise one. However, even if Ireland had gone directly to their world class training facility in Japan I still don't think Roy would have played in that world cup. There was a lot more going on than a dodgy training pitch and having the wrong type of footballs.

[GypsyBlackCat]

Keane is a proven manager and by proven I mean won promotion in the tough league that is the championship. And you don't have to be a premiership manager to be proven.

He started from a very low base at Sunderland. Comparing his spending with big four clubs is nonsensical. They had each spent close to 500 million euro by the time Keane started competing against them.

And having mediocre results at Sunderland, given their resources and budget is the equivalent of a top four team finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league.

I wish people would get real. Sunderland are not going to break into the Top 4 in the premiership. To finish in the top half of the premiership would be like winning the title for Sunderland.

He brought SUFC from rock bottom to mid table of the premier league in less than two years. That was a very good achievement.

As for Ipswich, he has little money to spend it appears and stuck with some god awful players. You cannot do much without money and with poor players. Just ask Mick McCarthy about that and his time at Sunderland.

I didn't know he managed Sheff Utd too!

Everyone knows we will never break the top 4. But after spending £80m in 2 season I would expect us to be sitting comfortable in mid-table and looking to be fighting to get into the Europa League spots. Not sitting second bottom. Keane didn't get SAFC to mid-table. We finished 3 points off relagation. I'm amazed at the job Steve Bruce is doing considering what he inherted.

Keane had money to burn at Sunderland and he blew it. He spend £10m at Ipswich already. He took over a decent squad, not as good as the one at Sunderland, but decent none the less. A side that finished 9th last term. He brought in players such as Leadbitter(£2.75m) Edwards(£1.35m) Dennelly(£0.5m) Martin(£2m) to name but a few. Thats mega money in the Championship. Add those 4 to a squad that has players such as R.Wright, Bruce, McAudley, Garvan, Walters, Quanago(sp) and Stead he has a side good enough to reach the play-offs at least. He took over a better situation than Chris Hughton.

Stan has the worst job in England. Now thats what you call a God awful squad with no money. If Stan keeps Darlo up he sould be made manager of the year!

As MeathDrog said, Even Darlington have won a game under Stan!

[GypsyBlackCat]

In fairness it was very early in the season and Sunderland's position in the table wasn't an accurate reflection of the team's ability or resources, if memory serves, they were the biggest spenders in the championship that season(could be wrong) so getting getting a team with Sunderland's resources promoted after an early season blip is hardly an amazing achievement, decent job yes but the way some people claim Keane saved them from being relegated to league 1 is ridiculous.

Spot on!

[seanfhear]

"Roy" win a game its getting embarassing

And you are making it hard for some of your die-hard supporters to claim that you are a good manager.

[blobbyblob]

This really needs to be moved from the Ireland thread.

[Emmet7]

This thread has become a nonsense to be honest.

When Brian Clough joined Derby County as manager, they finished 17th in the old Division 2 the previous season.

Guess where they finished after his first full season in charge as manager? 18th!! One place worse.

But the season after that they won the Second Division, the season after that they finished 4th in the old first division and a couple seasons later they won the League and qualified for the European Cup where they got beaten by Juventus in the semis' thanks to a dodgy ref.

And Clough spent massively in his first few seasons at Derby. The team that won the League was completely different to the one he inherited.

But if some people on this thread had their way, Clough would have been sacked at the end of his first season in charge at Derby.

The same goes for Alex Ferguson. He was apparantly within one game of being sacked in 1990 after 3 poor years at Man Utd.

Give Keane a chance. If he keeps Ipswich up in his first year, that should be good enough. If he doesn't get Ipswich promoted within his first 3 years, then maybe he deserves the sack.

But as I have said before I have no time for people who want instant results in football.

As for Sunderland, they were an absolute joke before he took over, everyone acknowledges that, whether they had decent players or not is beside the point. He turned them from the worst team in the division to the best within 6 months. But clearly that's not good enough for some people.

And regards the 80 million he spent, again I point to the fact that some of the big 4 spend that in a transfer window and that's on top of the hundreds of millions in talent they already have. Keane was faced with a situation of buying 3 or 4 30 million Euro signings as the big clubs usually do in a transfer window, or else buying 9 or 10 10 million euro players. There is a world of difference between a 10 million Euro player and a 30 million Euro player. There is no use having a Fernando Torries or Drogba up front without other world class players to feed them the ball.

In the end at SAFC Keane's downfall was that he bought a lot of average players who still cost between 5 - 10 million Euro yet who were still not able to compete with the more established teams who had players worth 20 - 30 million Euro. It's a situation which will always plague teams like Sunderland.

[Drumcondra 69er]

This thread has become a nonsense to be honest.

When Brian Clough joined Derby County as manager, they finished 17th in the old Division 2 the previous season.

Guess where they finished after his first full season in charge as manager? 18th!! One place worse.

But the season after that they won the Second Division, the season after that they finished 4th in the old first division and a couple seasons later they won the League and qualified for the European Cup where they got beaten by Juventus in the semis' thanks to a dodgy ref.

And Clough spent massively in his first few seasons at Derby. The team that won the League was completely different to the one he inherited.

But if some people on this thread had their way, Clough would have been sacked at the end of his first season in charge at Derby.

The same goes for Alex Ferguson. He was apparantly within one game of being sacked in 1990 after 3 poor years at Man Utd.

Give Keane a chance. If he keeps Ipswich up in his first year, that should be good enough. If he doesn't get Ipswich promoted within his first 3 years, then maybe he deserves the sack.

But as I have said before I have no time for people who want instant results in football.

As for Sunderland, they were an absolute joke before he took over, everyone acknowledges that, whether they had decent players or not is beside the point. He turned them from the worst team in the division to the best within 6 months. But clearly that's not good enough for some people.

And regards the 80 million he spent, again I point to the fact that some of the big 4 spend that in a transfer window and that's on top of the hundreds of millions in talent they already have. Keane was faced with a situation of buying 3 or 4 30 million Euro signings as the big clubs usually do in a transfer window, or else buying 9 or 10 10 million euro players. There is a world of difference between a 10 million Euro player and a 30 million Euro player. There is no use having a Fernando Torries or Drogba up front without other world class players to feed them the ball.

In the end at SAFC Keane's downfall was that he bought a lot of average players who still cost between 5 - 10 million Euro yet who were still not able to compete with the more established teams who had players worth 20 - 30 million Euro. It's a situation which will always plague teams like Sunderland.

I shouldn't really bite but it's pointless hankering back for a golden era of the 70's or 80's, football doesn't work like that anymore for better or worse.

Your excuses for RK are the nonsense here. Obviously there's a difference between the top top players and the players the likes of a Sunderland will attract. Sunderland aren't competing with the top 4 and in any case it's rare enough you'll see anyone spend £80m in a transfer window. I dont think Arsenal have ever done it for example. The point is that Sunderland were spending more then the bulk of teams in the league and yet were getting worse results then the bulk of them. They barely stayed up first season up and were heading for the drop the second season before he bottled it. That's bad management. He's also spent more then most (if not all) of the teams in the Championship this year (as he did at Sunderland in the Championship) and hasn't won a game yet. There's something wrong there and he's a way to go before he proves himself to be anything other then a chequebook manager.

How you can say keeping Ipswich up is good enough in his first season when they were 9th when he took over and have spent £10m since is staggering.

[Emmet7]

I shouldn't really bite but it's pointless hankering back for a golden era of the 70's or 80's, football doesn't work like that anymore for better or worse.

Your excuses for RK are the nonsense here. Obviously there's a difference between the top top players and the players the likes of a Sunderland will attract. Sunderland aren't competing with the top 4 and in any case it's rare enough you'll see anyone spend £80m in a transfer window. I dont think Arsenal have ever done it for example. The point is that Sunderland were spending more then the bulk of teams in the league and yet were getting worse results then the bulk of them. They barely stayed up first season up and were heading for the drop the second season before he bottled it. That's bad management. He's also spent more then most (if not all) of the teams in the Championship this year (as he did at Sunderland in the Championship) and hasn't won a game yet. There's something wrong there and he's a way to go before he proves himself to be anything other then a chequebook manager.

How you can say keeping Ipswich up is good enough in his first season when they were 9th when he took over and have spent £10m since is staggering.

I shouldn't bite either.

So you think Richard Wright is a great goalkeeper then? The guy is famous for letting in soft goals at Arsenal, Everton and seems to be continuing on that form.

And it's clear you didn't read what I said about Clough and Ferguson, and Ferguson hardly belongs to what you call a golden era of football. The fundamental principles of football never change, something you seem to have a problem with and your analysis is superficial and restricted to simplistic Keane bashing, or analysis that is mere comic book hero or comic book villain, good manager or bad manager. I for one get tired of such analysis.

Last week we all had to listen to people saying Rafa Benitiz has spend millions at Liverpool and apart from a supposedly flukey Champions League he was a poor manager. This week we have the same pundits and commentators saying what a great manager Benitiz is. It's the same usual Bullsh*t artists who jump on the manager bashing or manager adoration bandwagons, ie people who know Sweet F.A. about football.

When you have professional management experience under your belt, and get out of your armchair, then maybe your analysis of Keane's management might be worth listening to. Until then you should acknowledge that the Premiership is the toughest most competitive league in the world bar none, and you are competing against clubs with the most expensive squads bar none. Even 80 million spent is pittance compared to Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and so on.

Yeh but if you want to go down the route of comic book heroes and comic book villains, that's fine, but I won't go down it with you. Supposedly bigger clubs than Sunderland, eg Newcastle, Middlesborough and Leeds are languishing outside the top division, yet people want to bash Keane for keeping Sunderland up.

It's a tough division, when you recognise that, then we can talk further.

And I have said before I am no fan of Keane, but to say he is a bad manager based on 12 or so games is pure rubbish. If the chairman lets him stay the season, we can all decide at the end of the season.

[Greenbod]

How you can say keeping Ipswich up is good enough in his first season when they were 9th when he took over and have spent £10m since is staggering.


You may think it's staggering, but in fact it's quite typical of the mindset of many people who will defend Roy Keane in any situation regardless of what logic suggests.

I believe some of these people are not in fact wind up merchants but are quite sincere and have actually managed to convince themselves that they are correct.

[Junior]

Just out of interest Emmet, who is it that you have professionally managed? Just so I can ascertain whether your analysis of management is worth listening to/reading or not.