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DeLorean
12/08/2009, 1:57 PM
Was just checking some goal stats out there Essien has 11 goals in 102 games for Chelsea and in comparison Carrick has 9 goals in 102 games, thats not really a great return for midfielders is it? Scholes has 98 in 402 games which is much better
That was pretty much my point about Alonso, comparable enough to those other holding midfielders ie.Carrick and to a lesser extent Essien. Scholes himself has dried up almost completely the last few year. His decent ststs come from the Keane days where he could get into the box without any limits. His role has been much more reserved the last few years. They're crazy comparisions I think, almost like comparing Makelele and Lampard.
Give him another few seasons to prove himself i reckon.
You're very generous:D
As a United fan and most United fans i know would say that they think Berbatov is a lazy b@stard and Nani is just not good enough. The only thing is that both players are members of a squad that won the League, League Cup and World Club Championships (or what ever its called).
As ive said pretty much every United fan i know has grately slated Brabatov and Nani but both players played their part in winning things last season so we have no reason to complain really.
Lucas clearly isn't as good as Alonso but at 6 million he is not bad value considering the money being spent on players these days. Give him another few seasons to prove himself i reckon.
A Utd fan giving a good opinion without trying to get a dig in. Good post!
DeLorean
12/08/2009, 2:49 PM
A Utd fan giving a good opinion without trying to get a dig in. Good post!
Yeah that's cos he has a grasp on reality- Nani not good enough, Berbatov lazy. Lucas however ???
Sorry was that another one of those digs you were referring to. Ah shur you're well able, hardly a post goes by from your where we don't see two or three of these little pr!cks:D:p;)
A team rarely goes from 3rd to being champions the next year, in 91 leeds pipped utd to the title and they learnt there lesson the following year they won it, its all about learning to deal with the pressure and not "crack up" If they dont win it next year,id expect a clear out and maybe even rafa leaving. I still think there a player or two short,a player that can create a goal out of nothing and a second decent quality striker
Would like to see Silva brought in myself.
Hmm not convinced about silva,watch a lot of spanish football, he fades in and out,he would offer us something different,but he reminds me of Garcia, very lightweight and gives the ball away too easy for my liking. Doesnt score enough goals either,hes a good player, but the next big signing has to be the one to lift us to no 19 so its important we get it right.
Hmm not convinced about silva,watch a lot of spanish football, he fades in and out,he would offer us something different,but he reminds me of Garcia, very lightweight and gives the ball away too easy for my liking. Doesnt score enough goals either,hes a good player, but the next big signing has to be the one to lift us to no 19 so its important we get it right.
Think is Rafa's main target afaik. Would be happy myself if we got him.
Yeah i think he is rafas main target,skybet recently closed the betting on silva moving anywhere, but i wouldnt read to much into it. Theres no doubting silva would improve the squad with a bit more kwality.
Had to laugh at some of the sky sports pundits comments about the new season, how is Paul Merson still a pundit,he doesnt have a clue
Yeah i think he is rafas main target,skybet recently closed the betting on silva moving anywhere, but i wouldnt read to much into it. Theres no doubting silva would improve the squad with a bit more kwality.
Had to laugh at some of the sky sports pundits comments about the new season, how is Paul Merson still a pundit,he doesnt have a clue
Does Rafa have another 25 million + to spend on players though? Silva would improve any squad in the Premier League, but i'd be surprised if he moved anywere this season.
I was just looking at your man Aquallani's (spelling) stats on Sky Sports earlier, seems you have spent an awful amount of money on a player who has missed so many games over the past 3 seasons, something like 60% of games have been missed through injury :eek:
From what ive heard from mates in Liverpool,there is money to spend,but just on the right player.
I wasnt aware that Aquilani had missed so many games, i work with a couple of italian lads and theyve told me he is a very very good player. I seen a couple of quotes from Aquilani saying that he has been assesed by the medical team and theyve gotten to the root of the problem and thats a weight off his mind. Once they get him fit hopefully he can stay that way.
DeLorean
14/08/2009, 4:30 PM
I still think there a player or two short,a player that can create a goal out of nothing and a second decent quality striker
Any favourites in particular? (practical ones)
If Aaron Lennon could sort out his final delivery hed be a fine player but at the moment i still think hes average, theres plenty of promise in Ashley Young think he got burnt out last season playing so many games as Villa have such a small squad.
A player that i would have liked is Brian McBride, he would have been a cheaper option holds the ball up wall offers a different plan b.
Theres plenty of options coming thru such as Pacheco,Dalle Valli and Nemeth but realistically we need someone out wide we need some one to offer a different option from kuyt. Kuyt really won me over with his development over the last 18 months,before he was just all effort and little skill but hes worked hard on that and gotten over his fathers death which affected his form badly.
Dortmunds Kuba could be an option.
DeLorean
14/08/2009, 4:48 PM
Yeah Ashley Young and the rest of the Villa team really suffered from a small squad alright. Didn't know Kuyt had any personal issues of that nature. I rated McBride as someone who would do a job alright but even at his best I'm not sure he'd be good enough for what Liverpool are trying to achieve. He must be mid to late 30's at this stage anyway.
McBride is 34 or 35 i think he has since retired anyway,he would have been a decent squad player, a better/cheaper crouch. Villa have Bouma back after a lengthy lay off,i still think there going to struggle, as far as i know they havent replaced Barry and really need to get a few players in cos city and everton are sniffing around that 5th spot
[QUOTE=Noli;1211827]If Aaron Lennon could sort out his final delivery hed be a fine player but at the moment i still think hes average, theres plenty of promise in Ashley Young think he got burnt out last season playing so many games as Villa have such a small squad.[QUOTE]
There would be no fear of burn out with Young at Liverpool due to Rafa's famous rotation system :D
Wouldn't mind him or Lennon at United myself, 2 great young players who will only get better but will need to move to bigger clubs with better players to do so.
Im nearly sure Old whiskey nose made more changes per game last year than rafa,cant find the stats,heard McMullen say it today on today fm again.
Its all about when he makes the changes,rafa rotates fergies "rests" players :rolleyes:
old git
15/08/2009, 9:37 PM
Im nearly sure Old whiskey nose made more changes per game last year than rafa,cant find the stats,heard McMullen say it today on today fm again.
Its all about when he makes the changes,rafa rotates fergies "rests" players :rolleyes:
old whiskey nose changes must have worked last season :D:D
Bit of luck helped him along the way too
Kildare Lad
16/08/2009, 3:24 PM
Did anyone else look at the line up for todays game and think that is not a squad capable of winning the premiership?
Razors left peg
16/08/2009, 3:46 PM
Did anyone else look at the line up for todays game and think that is not a squad capable of winning the premiership?
Team maybe, squad no.
DmanDmythDledge
16/08/2009, 3:54 PM
Team maybe, squad no.
Other way round surely? Just compare Liverpool's bench to Man Utd's and Chelsea's.
Razors left peg
16/08/2009, 3:55 PM
Other way round surely? Just compare Liverpool's bench to Man Utd's and Chelsea's.
Im meaning that Pools first team might be capable but their squad isnt good enough
DeLorean
16/08/2009, 5:20 PM
Im nearly sure Old whiskey nose made more changes per game last year than rafa,cant find the stats,heard McMullen say it today on today fm again.
Its all about when he makes the changes,rafa rotates fergies "rests" players :rolleyes:
Yeah I'm sure United rotated far more than Liverpool last season but that's because they had/have a better squad. It makes sense to rotate when your bringing in Anderson for Scholes, Tevez for Berbatov, etc. It doesn't when you're bringing in N'Gog for Torres, Lucas for Alonso, etc.
Bit of luck helped him along the way too
How so?
Liverpool were very poor today. Spurs looked stronger all over the pitch but I don't think there'll be too many teams leaving the Lane with full pts this season. Palacios is a class act and Huddlestone should play ahead of Jenas every time. I know there were a lot of raised eyebrows when United signed Owen but when you see Voronin coming on to save the day for Liverpool it makes me wonder why Liverpool weren't interested themselves. Suppose they might sign someone yet, they'll need to for sure.
I wasnt looking for a row when i made the comment about luck as teams that generally play good attacking football get the rub of the green,if your looking for a specific comment about luck you can look at the dubious penalty that utd got at home to spurs last season when they were two down and looked clueless,that gave them a foothold in the game and they destroyed spurs after that.
I didnt see the match today as im in work at the moment but the general feeling that i got that they were ****e today absolutely muck, i said it before that they needed someone with a little bit of magic to change a game and by the sounds of it they really need it, babel was awful from what i heard and the combination of Lucas/Mash is hardly going to be the most creative,so hopefully Aquilani will get fit as soon as possible or maybe even Gerrard drops back into 4-4-2 cm role,but that then exposes the weakness of having Voronin/N'Gog as part of the matchday squad.
Liverpool were in talks with Owen but what he wanted in wages the club wasnt prepared to match also the fact he wasnt going to be no 1 striker at the club as well didnt help his choice, but when you hear contact was made with him 6 months before the deal was done, maybe he had his mind made up from then, but one thing is for sure today exposed a few gaps in the liverpool squad and has burst all that pre season optimisim!
DeLorean
16/08/2009, 5:53 PM
You heard right anyway. Babel was/is(??) absolutely shocking. Not in the game at all. Gerrard improved a bit in the 2nd half and poor Torres was absolutely starved up front. Carragher and Skrtel had a nasty class of heads in the first half and I think Skrtel was struggling after it. Great run by Glen Johnson for the penalty but completely brain dead by Gomes bringing him down. United generally get the rub of the green I'd be the first to admit that. Think the big teams do generally to be fair. Foster made a really good save from Benitez of all people near the end today to keep it at 1-0.
Foster looks like he has a good career ahead of him and has a great mentor in VDS to help him along, as for Ryan Babel if only someone could get inside that lads head and sort it out.
Rafa imo should either give him a go up front or sell him,hes so infuriating
DeLorean
16/08/2009, 6:10 PM
Yeah playing him up front might do the trick alright. He was dubbed the new Henry at one stage if I remember right. Looks a long way off that at the minute.
If im not mistaken this will be his 3rd full season in the premiership and he hasnt gotten used to it and Rafa still doesnt know what to do with him,at the moment i think theyd be lucky to get 6m for him
shakermaker1982
16/08/2009, 6:26 PM
how bad were they today? I missed the game and wish I didn't now!! Benitez was in charge of transfers this summer so if he doesn't win a trophy this season I'm sure he'll think back to July when he paid 17 million for Johnson instead of using that cash for a striker.
DeLorean
16/08/2009, 6:28 PM
It would be his 3rd season alright. Just seen the interview with Rafa there. Bit sour they didn't get a penalty at the end, think it would've soft enough but there was contact alright. Just before it actually there seemed to be a clear push on Crouch in the box at the other end. Kind of one you'd get outside the box.
Rafa has cut his cloth its his team,only Gerrard & Carra are left from Istanbul its his team so he can have no excuses. If he is sour,he may get over it and blow those cobwebs of the team and have em ready for Stoke
how bad were they today?
The words Godawful and eyesbleeding come to mind
DmanDmythDledge
16/08/2009, 7:16 PM
or maybe even Gerrard drops back into 4-4-2 cm role,but that then exposes the weakness of having Voronin/N'Gog as part of the matchday squad.
Goodbye top 4 if Liverpool put Gerrard CM regardless of who will replace him upfront. At least a dozen players better than him as a centre mid in the Premiership.
So for the next two months what would you do?play masch and lucas cm every game?
DmanDmythDledge
16/08/2009, 8:16 PM
So for the next two months what would you do?play masch and lucas cm every game?
It seems the best of a number of poor options at the moment. Even when Aquilani is back from injury Liverpool will not be as impressive as last season as he is not a player who sits in front of the defence. Maybe he can be turned into a player like that but Benitez did not do it with Lucas. I have not seen enough of Aquilani, however, to know for certain will he be able/not able to adapt into that role.
Aquilani is definately not a holding midfielder, in the 4-2-3-1 Lucas and Masch can do that,but is there a need to use that all the time? a plan b and a bit more of the football we seen from Feb onwards would be nice
DmanDmythDledge
16/08/2009, 8:36 PM
Liverpool's defence is not strong enough not to have two holding midfield players, even more so that Johnson has been signed as he is more attacking than Arbeloa.
old git
16/08/2009, 9:19 PM
The words Godawful and eyesbleeding come to mind
give spurs a bit of credit.. they should have been 3 or 4 up by half time .. keane had 3 great chances to score .. and palacios ran the show from midfield for spurs in first half.. 1st goal was a cracker for spurs................ skertel/ carragher looked very shaky for most of the game :ball:
papa-j
16/08/2009, 9:23 PM
Reina was excellent. Actually kept Liverpool in the game. Centre of defence was terrible, Caragher was shockingly poor. Kuyt not himself, centre mid dont compliment each other and sit too deep.. Babel, goodbye -enough said. Gerrard was poor. Torres had a very quite game. Yossi was very good when he came on. The options or lack of them on the bench are worrying. Players looked sluggish and seemed to be in pre-season mode.Big improvement needed fast or more points will be dropped.
Big credit to Spurs who deserved their win, Harry is a miracle worker.
MikeBassett
16/08/2009, 10:12 PM
Why they offered Benitez a new contract near the end of last season I don't know, the man is an idiot. Liverpool are short at least 3 players of mounting a serious title challenge.
Carragher is nearing the end of his career, Skrtel was clearly fcuked after clashing with Carragher but there wasn't an ounce of quality on the bench to replace him. Aquilani was a strange buy as well, he was booed of the pitch a couple of times last season by Roma fans and is not a proven quality player.
reder
17/08/2009, 10:21 AM
Reina was excellent. Actually kept Liverpool in the game. Centre of defence was terrible, Caragher was shockingly poor. Kuyt not himself, centre mid dont compliment each other and sit too deep.. Babel, goodbye -enough said. Gerrard was poor. Torres had a very quite game. Yossi was very good when he came on. The options or lack of them on the bench are worrying. Players looked sluggish and seemed to be in pre-season mode.Big improvement needed fast or more points will be dropped.
Big credit to Spurs who deserved their win, Harry is a miracle worker.
Spurs hit the ground running and were very good and well deserved their win. However, the penalty shouts for the foul on HHH and the hand ball were valid penalties. Overall, it was a poor, sluggish performance from Liverpool. Reina was MOTM from a Liverpool perspective with some excellent saves, particularly in the first half. If Robbie Keane was on song Spurs could have been 3 up at half time. Benayoun made a positive difference when he came on but for some reason, he never has the same effect when he starts.
My biggest moan of the day were Gerrards corners. Why does he take corners? Its not like he is actually good at it. Given his shooting ability from long range, surely he should be lurking outside the area for corners.
Liverpool are short at least 3 players of mounting a serious title challenge.
Dont get too excited, Mr. Manc. I watched most the united game and saw very little to worry about for any of other title contenders. United looked very ordinary all over the pitch. If United dont buy before the transfer window closes, they wont win the league. Liverpool will finish ahead of them but I wouldnt be so sure that would be in 1st place.
Arsenal and Man City impressed me most over the weekend. Arsenal were class and played some lovely football. Man City played really well at Blackburn which is a very tough place to win. If they manage to get Lescott, who will shore up their defence a little more and strengthen even more at xmas, they could break into the CL places. Chelsea are only settling into a new system of play but still managed to scrape a win which is bad news for everyone else.
endabob1
17/08/2009, 10:38 AM
Spurs hit the ground running and were very good and well deserved their win. However, the penalty shouts for the foul on HHH and the hand ball were valid penalties. Overall, it was a poor, sluggish performance from Liverpool. Reina was MOTM from a Liverpool perspective with some excellent saves, particularly in the first half. If Robbie Keane was on song Spurs could have been 3 up at half time. Benayoun made a positive difference when he came on but for some reason, he never has the same effect when he starts.
.
The "handball" was nothing of the sort, clearly hit his chest, the only one claiming it was Benayoun who was behind BAE and couldn't have seen it.
The "foul" was at 50/50 shout, I've certainly seen them given but it came 20 seconds after Carragher had blatantly shoved Crouch in the other area with nothing given, so it was understandable that it too, wasn't given.
I have said for a couple of seasons that Liverpool are one dimensional, Bent'Arry seems to have the measure of Rafa, Spurs played a high tempo yesterday knowing that Liverpool playing with only 1 striker wouldn't be pressing, which meant not having to hoof the ball up to 2 short strikers, I rather suspect if Huddle20stone especially(who just seemed to drop deep to get the time he needed) & Palacios were harried a bit more it might have been a different game.
From a Liverpool pov, how do Babel & Lucas mantain a place in that squad? They were a different side when Benayoun came on.
Big credit to Spurs who deserved their win, Harry is a miracle worker.
Was at this game yesterday and fully agree Spurs deserved their win. Played really well first half and could have been more than one at half time. Best for Liverpool Reina, Johnson and Yossi. Thought Defoe was good for Spurs fairly lively upfront and for a small guy hard to handle but a lot of the time don't think he knows what he's doing when he's in possession of the ball but played well all the same i thought. Palasicos i thoght was excellent to. Can't agree Harry is a miracle worker myself. He has a decent squad when you look at their bench yesterday and Woodgate and Dawson were out with injuries. He needs to go for it this season with Spurs and stop whinging about the previous management and the lack of cash as it's complete rubbish. They have a good enough squad now imo.
DeLorean
17/08/2009, 10:43 AM
You make a good point about Gerrard taking the corners. I feel the same when Giggs takes them for United, not that he would be of any use lurking outside the box, just that he's rubbish at taking corners. I honestly can't see Liverpool finishing ahead of United unless they do something impressive in the transfer market. There is little difference between the teams at full strength but Liverpool's squad is desperately poor. Even if they stay relatively clear of injuries it will still cost them in a big way with the amount of games they play. United were very laboured themselves yesterday but I really wouldn't raed too much into that. The started the past two seasons with home draws against teams that were eventually relegated so this was an improvement. It's all about getting the points on the board at this stage and not falling too far behind. Long term I'd worry about United's midfield and a huge question mark still hangs over Berbatov. The positives for United yesterday would be the performances of Fabio at right back, Valencia as the game went on and Evra looking more like his old self. Evans looks very capable too when needed. Rooney will have a big season I think and Anderson will be first choice in midfield sooner rather than later.
DeLorean
17/08/2009, 10:49 AM
it came 20 seconds after Carragher had blatantly shoved Crouch in the other area with nothing given, so it was understandable that it too, wasn't given
Yeah can't believe this hasn't been mentioned more.
Bent'Arry seems to have the measure of Rafa
To be fair I think Spurs have the measure of most teams, at the Lane anyway. The battered United the season before last there and United got a late equaliser and last season they gave United very little, drawing the match again. They also beat Chelsea with a really good team performance. The futures bright for them I think.
Huddle20stone
:DClass player though.
shakermaker1982
17/08/2009, 11:15 AM
Dont get too excited, Mr. Manc. I watched most the united game and saw very little to worry about for any of other title contenders. United looked very ordinary all over the pitch. If United dont buy before the transfer window closes, they wont win the league. Liverpool will finish ahead of them but I wouldnt be so sure that would be in 1st place.
Liverpool fans say this every year :D. Man Utd were 1 nil up and crusing. It wasn't a brilliant performance but at least they have got off to a winning start unlike the past two seasons.
Liverpool don't have the team or squad to win the title. They are crying out for another forward who can fill in for Torres if/when he gets injured. Alonso is a big loss and their new buy won't play till end of September so they are relying on Lucas.....
Man Utd's main threat this year will come from Arsenal if they keep everybody fit. Chelsea? Same old same old. No width, same squad but a year older.
reder
17/08/2009, 11:35 AM
Was at this game yesterday and fully agree Spurs deserved their win.
Was talking to a Spurs fan who was at it also. He has a very good knowledge of the game, systems etc, strange as that is for a Spurs fan and was really surprised by the lack of movement by Liverpool off the ball. He thought that most of the players were waiting for Gerrard or Torres to make it happen. Agree or disagree??
Chelsea? Same old same old. No width, same squad but a year older.
**Reder is bemused. ** Chelsea are playing a brand new system under Ancelotti. They will be playing with 2 up front, Anelka and Drogba and when Joe Cole comes back, he will play behind the front 2.
DeLorean
17/08/2009, 11:48 AM
**Reder is bemused. ** Chelsea are playing a brand new system under Ancelotti. They will be playing with 2 up front, Anelka and Drogba and when Joe Cole comes back, he will play behind the front 2.
True but this kind of thing has been tried before. Anyway Chelsea will still be a serious force cos that same squad they have happens to be a very good one. United may have a slightly different squad to last year but that's only because they lost 2 of their best players.
shakermaker1982
17/08/2009, 11:49 AM
**Reder is bemused. ** Chelsea are playing a brand new system under Ancelotti. They will be playing with 2 up front, Anelka and Drogba and when Joe Cole comes back, he will play behind the front 2.
So where would Lampard play? He cannot play on the wings and he won't sit in front of the back 4 so if Ancelotti persists with the diamond formation Lampard will be behind the front two.
Joe Cole will be stuck out on the right or left side when fit (20 games a season then) but I wouldn't classify him as a conventional winger.
[QUOTE=reder;1213211]Was talking to a Spurs fan who was at it also. He has a very good knowledge of the game, systems etc, strange as that is for a Spurs fan and was really surprised by the lack of movement by Liverpool off the ball. He thought that most of the players were waiting for Gerrard or Torres to make it happen. Agree or disagree??
Agree. The thing for me was no players wanted the ball so no chance of Gerrard or Torres getting it. When Yossi came on all he wanted was the ball. When he got it he was running with it and looking to make things happen which in turn created more movement from others off the ball. Hindsight is wonderful and all that but considering how he finished last season can't understand how he didn't start yesterday. Thought Torres had one of his days yesterday were he allowed himself to bullied which resulted in him looking for frees all the time and whinging at the ref but can't be to critical of him i suppose.
reder
17/08/2009, 12:58 PM
So where would Lampard play? He cannot play on the wings and he won't sit in front of the back 4 so if Ancelotti persists with the diamond formation Lampard will be behind the front two.
Lampard will sit in front of the back four and switch to the attacking point of the diamond when Joe Cole doesnt play. Ancelotti has always played with this system and I dont see him changing his ways now.
Thought Torres had one of his days yesterday were he allowed himself to bullied which resulted in him looking for frees all the time and whinging at the ref but can't be to critical of him i suppose.
Spurs were all over him and King had a very good game against. Anytime he tried to go on a run he was surrounded by 2 or 3 Spurs defenders and was subjected to a fair few tough (but fair) challenges. I thought he looked a bit laboured at times but wouldnt be too hard on him. Also, Gerrard isnt 100% fit.
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