Liverpool

[razor]

in fairness rooneys was clipped but he did go down easily ;) If he could have stayed on his feet despite the (minimal) contact and he goes down then its a dive. ;)
Gerrard does himself no favours at times either.


and hes had more than his fair share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abk9JSDBra4
Sure you'll find a youtube clip to prove anything :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M8uCKK5Cvs&feature=related

[old git]

If he could have stayed on his feet despite the (minimal) contact and he goes down then its a dive. ;)
Gerrard does himself no favours at times either.


Sure you'll find a youtube clip to prove anything :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M8uCKK5Cvs&feature=related

so you admit contact was made .... if so it was a penalty then.

most current players will go down these days under the slightest contact or no contact... but think the argument is that gerrard more than any other english player has been doing it for years and getting away with it by the english media :mad:

[razor]

so you admit contact was made .... if so it was a penalty then.You can tell from the replay there was the slightest bit of contact but contact doesn't automatically make it a penalty, if Rooney hadn't gone down there wouldn't have been one. Its the dive that makes the penalty not the contact.


most current players will go down these days under the slightest contact or no contact... but think the argument is that gerrard more than any other english player has been doing it for years and getting away with it by the english media :mad:Theres no club immune from it but the Rooney clip shows he's up/down there with the best.

[rava]

To be honest both players are guilty of the odd tumble, but gerrard in a lot of cases manufacturers the contact with this little kick to the oppenant as he falls. In either case the FA should study this and just hand out a ban for blatant diving.

[TrapAPony]

Benitez sold Keane, Bellamy, Crouch, Riise, Alonso & refused to take on Michael Owen. Now he's left with the likes of Insua, Voronin, N'Gog & Lucas. Tells its own story really. I think Rafa has lost the plot altogether.

[Roadend]

Benitez sold Keane, Bellamy, Crouch, Riise, Alonso & refused to take on Michael Owen. Now he's left with the likes of Insua, Voronin, N'Gog & Lucas. Tells its own story really. I think Rafa has lost the plot altogether.

If only everything was as black and white as you seem to think it is

[DeLorean]

If only everything was as black and white as you seem to think it is

Can you elaborate because as far as I can see Crouch and Bellamy would have stayed if they weren't used so sparingly, Keane was absolutely rode and Alonso was treated badly the summer before he was sold. I think Riise was playing poorly for quite a while when he left alright. Maybe I am missing something though?

As for the players mentioned that are there now, Insua looks reasonably promising and is young so I'd leave him alone, Lucas and Voronin are pathetically bad and Ngog looks ordinary at best, but again is young so I wouldn't be too hard on him yet.

[papa-j]

As for the players mentioned that are there now, Insua looks reasonably promising and is young so I'd leave him alone, Lucas and Voronin are pathetically bad and Ngog looks ordinary at best, but again is young so I wouldn't be too hard on him yet.

forget the young lads and squad players - the big names on massive wages need to stand up an be counted. Too many are hiding when things go badly.
Gerard needs to step up and lead like a captain instead of sulking around Anfield.:mad:

[old git]

forget the young lads and squad players - the big names on massive wages need to stand up an be counted. Too many are hiding when things go badly.
Gerard needs to step up and lead like a captain instead of sulking around Anfield.:mad:

in fairness papa-j liverpool only have 2 big names gerard & torres :Dthis is maybe were the problem starts ..

[papa-j]

in fairness papa-j liverpool only have 2 big names gerard & torres :Dthis is maybe were the problem starts ..

I know I shouldn't bite because I'll be shot down for this..but here I go..Gerard, Torres world class. Reina, Johnson,Mascherano and Carragher are all top players. Agger, Kuyt,Bennythejew are very good. Skertel, Aurelio, Riera decent. Lucas, N'gog, Insua have potential. Babel, Voroninin terrible and Aquilani unproven but hopeful he will be a top player.

Based on that in order to compete with UTD/Chelsea over a full season we need a top left back, centre back, 2 wingers and a striker about 70 millions worth - no chance of that:o

[old git]

I know I shouldn't bite because I'll be shot down for this..but here I go..Gerard, Torres world class. Reina, Johnson,Mascherano and Carragher are all top players. Agger, Kuyt,Bennythejew are very good. Skertel, Aurelio, Riera decent. Lucas, N'gog, Insua have potential. Babel, Voroninin terrible and Aquilani unproven but hopeful he will be a top player.

Based on that in order to compete with UTD/Chelsea over a full season we need a top left back, centre back, 2 wingers and a striker about 70 millions worth - no chance of that:o

torres world class , gerrard / reina top players , carragher , mascherano good players the rest not consistent enough to class as top players ,, and johnson vastly overated will cost ye loads of goals with his terrible defending :( cant comment on aquilani yet as need to see him play more games .and agree on your need for players in certain positions but cant see rafa getting 70 million of the yanks to buy players :p

[papa-j]

torres world class , gerrard / reina top players , carragher , mascherano good players the rest not consistent enough to class as top players ,, and johnson vastly overated will cost ye loads of goals with his terrible defending :( cant comment on aquilani yet as need to see him play more games .and agree on your need for players in certain positions but cant see rafa getting 70 million of the yanks to buy players :p

He'll be lucky to get 70 quid off them, they appear to be broke. Gilette recently sold his Ice hockey franchise for a huge profit and has not invested any of that cash for players. Hicks is supposed to be in big financial trouble across all his businesses interests and is trying to sell the Texas rangers baseball team to generate cash to save them.

Its scary how messed up this club has become over the past 2 years. Last year the performance of the team papered over cracks behind the scenes but this year its all come crashing down.

I really do fear for our top four status and the risk of loosing players is very real. Fans need to wake up and realise that there are much bigger issues than Rafa and the teams form at this club. :mad:

[old git]

He'll be lucky to get 70 quid off them, they appear to be broke. Gilette recently sold his Ice hockey franchise for a huge profit and has not invested any of that cash for players. Hicks is supposed to be in big financial trouble across all his businesses interests and is trying to sell the Texas rangers baseball team to generate cash to save them.

Its scary how messed up this club has become over the past 2 years. Last year the performance of the team papered over cracks behind the scenes but this year its all come crashing down.

I really do fear for our top four status and the risk of loosing players is very real. Fans need to wake up and realise that there are much bigger issues than Rafa and the teams form at this club. :mad:

would worry that gerrard /torres get fed up with situation if they leave or get sold !!! would be a diaster for liverpool and failure to quailfy for champions league financially who knows .. on benetiz personally i think they should stick with him until end of season at least as who else is out there to replace him.. but agree alot of issues at club need sorted urgently :(

[razor]

To be honest both players are guilty of the odd tumble, but gerrard in a lot of cases manufacturers the contact with this little kick to the oppenant as he falls. In either case the FA should study this and just hand out a ban for blatant diving.Was reading Graham Poll in one of Mondays papers saying that he reckoned the reason Gerrard didn't get a pen on Sunday was maybe because he has a history of diving.
Also lambasted Rooney saying diving is far from a foreign disease.

[SkStu]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/2510825375_176f1608a0.jpg

[jebus]

http://www.glassrbije.org/sport/images/stories/fudbal1/rafarafa.gif

[The Fly]

I don't know if this is the right place for it, but anyway - watch this! :D:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrw4IlKRPmc&feature=player_embedded

[KK77]

Papers linking a bid for McGeady this morning. How true i don't know as haven't heard anything locally (In Liverpool) about this and never known a paper to refuse ink but if true would be happy to see it come off. The sort of player (in my opinion) Liverpool could do with. Fast, tricky and stays wide. Would question is final ball but sure we all have our faults. Anyway would get the thumps up from me.

[DeLorean]

Papers linking a bid for McGeady this morning. How true i don't know as haven't heard anything locally (In Liverpool) about this and never known a paper to refuse ink but if true would be happy to see it come off. The sort of player (in my opinion) Liverpool could do with. Fast, tricky and stays wide. Would question is final ball but sure we all have our faults. Anyway would get the thumps up from me.

God please don't let this happen. I could see Benitez destroying the poor fella. I'd like to see him move to the PL, but would prefer to see it with a club that would appreciate him and nurture his talent. Even if he did become a Liverpool regular, which is a massive if, I could see Benitez trying to change his style of play completely and not for the better. As for staying wide, his natural game tends to be to drift infield. It's the Scottish Sun that have reported this- an £8m bid in January.

Kop target McGeady (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/2780975/Kop-target-Aid.html)

[KK77]

Kop target McGeady (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/2780975/Kop-target-Aid.html)

Scotish Rag your all right it can get too fcuk.. Piece of scum that rag.

[DeLorean]

Scotish Rag your all right it can get too fcuk.. Piece of scum that rag.

Finding it difficult to make sense of that sentence but I'm presuming the Sun is still not a big hit on Merseyside.

[KK77]

Finding it difficult to make sense of that sentence but I'm presuming the Sun is still not a big hit on Merseyside.

Enough sense to understand it though!

[old git]

Finding it difficult to make sense of that sentence but I'm presuming the Sun is still not a big hit on Merseyside.

rafa b wont know he is from limerick :D:D

[KK77]

rafa b wont know he is from limerick :D:D

I see:D

[SkStu]

sorry for bumping this minnow thread but i just wanted to be the first one to laugh!!!

[Monkfish]

Super Shane Long!!!!!!

[Acornvilla]

worst liverpool team ever

[Mayo Red]

Abysmal performance tonight and speaking as a Liverpool fan, Reading certainly deserved it. Shane Long played well when he came on, winning the penalty, taking his goal very well and also tracking back when needed. I knew the minute he scored that the 'Pool were out, terrible terrible stuff from sadly an average team this season!:(

[jebus]

http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/reds-hillsborough.jpg

[Closed Account 2]

Shocking stuff if theyre not careful they wont make Europe at all next season... not even the Europa on this form.

[old git]

Abysmal performance tonight and speaking as a Liverpool fan, Reading certainly deserved it. Shane Long played well when he came on, winning the penalty, taking his goal very well and also tracking back when needed. I knew the minute he scored that the 'Pool were out, terrible terrible stuff from sadly an average team this season!:(

terrible performance ... only scored with a deflected cross ..
reading should have won game 3-1 had more heart/ passion created more chances .
... summed it up when a journeyman fullback walks round opponent / nutmegs next and sends in a cross for long to win game... interviewer on utv gave benitez some tasty questions in intervew aftermatch... benitiz in fairness refused to bite on questions instead was unhappy with ref's performance and would not even admit reading deserved win saying "we had chances they had chances " must be watching a diferent game rafa .. :ball:

[rambler14]

How that man still has a job is beyond me? A very bad manager.

[jebus]

That genuinely has to be the end of the line for him, 4 year deal or not he needs to be shown the door

Not to mention players like N'Gog, Carragher, Riera, and well most of the squad really

They should try and hijack the Hiddink deal, blow off this year as done and dusted and try and rebuild in the summer. If that means selling Torres for 50m so that can be invested in the squad than so be it really

Just been looking at some of the players he has sold and when you compare to them to first team players you really see that the man doesn't have a clue what to look for in the transfer market

Alonso>>>>>Aqualani
Alou Diarra>>>Lucas
Warnock>>>>Insua
Pongolle>>>>N'Gog
Bellamy>>>Kuyt
Crouch>>>>Voronin

then you also have the likes of Keane and Danny Murphy who would add a lot to the current squad

[KK77]

terrible performance ... only scored with a deflected cross ..
reading should have won game 3-1 had more heart/ passion created more chances .
... summed it up when a journeyman fullback walks round opponent / nutmegs next and sends in a cross for long to win game... interviewer on utv gave benitez some tasty questions in intervew aftermatch... benitiz in fairness refused to bite on questions instead was unhappy with ref's performance and would not even admit reading deserved win saying "we had chances they had chances " must be watching a diferent game rafa .. :ball:


Didn't once hear him blame the ref. The interviewer tried to put the words in his mouth i'll give you that but from what i saw of it it he was actually blaming his players for how they defended leading up to the peno. Reading deserved their win.

[razor]

Long didn't learn to fall like that at City :D
He got a kick, not enough to make him go down but who wouldn't have I guess.
Liverpool were woeful, Benayouns one on one was the chance, when he fluffed it, that was that.
Didn't see any post match stuff but Aquilani was hauled to the ground in extra time, maybe that was what Rafa was talking about but they'd still have lost on pens.

[shakermaker1982]

bloody missed the game. Gutted about that. Nothing beats walking in to an office full of Liverpool fans after another defeat :). All but one want Rafa out now.

[razor]

can you imagine poor old Maxi Rodriguez in the crowd, wondering what the hell have I got myself into here.

[Emmet7]

I don't understand what diehard Liverpool or pro-Rafa fans see in him.

Apparantly Ronnie Whelan has come out and said Rafa has to go. I amn't a Liverpool fan but I have to agree with Whelan.

Even the much maligned Gerard Houlier won more trophies than Benitez and it was his squad of players who won the European Cup.

Benitez can't blame a lack of funds, he's spent tens of millions already.

I also think Benitez is one of these managers that has to buy success. Surely there comes a time when you have 11 half decent players on the pitch, tell them how to play and keep it tight and all that and get a result.

Ronnie Whelan was part of the legendary 80's team that delivered 6 or 7 league titles, a number of FA cups and doubles, a couple of European Cups. He's more entitled to his opinion than most fans who contributed nothing to Liverpool's succsss.

Anyone who thinks Benitez is going to deliver a league title or another Champions League is deluded. Liverpool don't have the players, they have only one world class striker and when he gets injured they struggle to beat anyone. The reason they don't have the players is Benitez wasted money in the transfer market and failed to find a Torress understudy.

Great club but Benitez has brought it as far as he can.

[shakermaker1982]

not seen Reder on here for a while. It would be interesting to hear his take.

[Emmet7]

Based on that in order to compete with UTD/Chelsea over a full season we need a top left back, centre back, 2 wingers and a striker about 70 millions worth - no chance of that:o

How much did Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Giggs, Sharp and co cost Man Utd?

That's right, nothing.

Even Cantona and Ronaldo were bought relatively cheaply.

Is that not the problem with Benitez? He needs to spend tens of millions to achieve success. Has one home grown Liverpool player of note come through under Benitez? Carragher and Gerard were there before Benitez. Since he arrived, no-one from the Liverpool youth team has become a first team regular.

Look at Man Utd on the other hand where Ferguson continues to bring through players like Johny Evans, Obertan, and a couple of others. I know they aren't world class, but they are good enough to beat most teams and challenge for the title.

Benitez even had a chance to get Michael Owen from Newcastle but turned down the chance. Owen is still a good finished and Ferguson saw that.

[superfrank]

Even Cantona and Ronaldo were bought relatively cheaply.
Cantona cost £1.2m in November 1991. Not much by today's standards but a lot back ten, considering Shearer's £3.3m move to Blackburn a few months later was a English record.

Ronaldo cost £12m when he was 18 years old. That's not cheap at all.

[rava]

Cantona cost £1.2m in November 1991. Not much by today's standards but a lot back ten, considering Shearer's £3.3m move to Blackburn a few months later was a English record.

Ronaldo cost £12m when he was 18 years old. That's not cheap at all.


Both signings were cheap when you way up what they gave back to the club.

[Acornvilla]

How much did Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Giggs, Sharp and co cost Man Utd?

That's right, nothing.

Even Cantona and Ronaldo were bought relatively cheaply.

Is that not the problem with Benitez? He needs to spend tens of millions to achieve success. Has one home grown Liverpool player of note come through under Benitez? Carragher and Gerard were there before Benitez. Since he arrived, no-one from the Liverpool youth team has become a first team regular.

Look at Man Utd on the other hand where Ferguson continues to bring through players like Johny Evans, Obertan, and a couple of others. I know they aren't world class, but they are good enough to beat most teams and challenge for the title.

Benitez even had a chance to get Michael Owen from Newcastle but turned down the chance. Owen is still a good finished and Ferguson saw that.
obertan was baught from bordeoux last season

[Emmet7]

obertan was baught from bordeoux last season

for how much?

bottom line is he can beat a player and get in a cross.

Let's hope Maxi Rodriguz can do that.

[don ramo]

why do ye pick up on how much the player bought cost, why not question why noone has come through the liverpool youth system in the last few years, that should set off alarm bells at any club, how much does this system cost to run,

torres is now out for 6 weeks, benayoun for 4 weeks and gerrard for 2 weeks, 3 players and the team will fall to pieces, wheras you look at UTD who have had ferdinand, vidic, brown, o shea, neville, van der sar, and heargaves, plus others throught the season, with that many player out they are achieveing way above expectations,

liverpool wont have a decent team for the next few years, next decade if they dont get rid of there manager, but the sad fact is they jumped the gun giving him a new contract before he won anything, and now itll cost millions the get rid of him, when would hes previous contract have expired?,

[Acornvilla]

for how much?

bottom line is he can beat a player and get in a cross.

Let's hope Maxi Rodriguz can do that.
3 million plus add ons

[Emmet7]

why do ye pick up on how much the player bought cost, why not question why noone has come through the liverpool youth system in the last few years, that should set off alarm bells at any club, how much does this system cost to run.



I picked up on it.

Granted Utd have spent big over the years, but a lot of their players in the last 20 years have come through the youth system or were bought young for a pittance.

Thinking of John O'Shea, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Beckham, Wellbeck, Gibson, Evans, Macheda, Foster, Brown, Gillespie and others. They get regular games for Man Utd and when give the squad strength in depth. Some of them aren't world beaters, but Ferguson gets the best out of them.

Arsenal also have a continuous supply of young home grown players coming through who are pushing for first team spots.

Alex Ferguson is also able to get the best out of players supposedly past it, Michael Owen, Sheringham, Giggs, and others.

Benitez chopping and changing hasn't helped and he really p*ssed off one of his best players, Alonso, in his pursuit of Gareth Barry.

At least previous Liverpool managers were able to cultivate young strikers like Fowler, McManaman and Owen as well as Rednapp, Murphy, Gerard in midfield and Carragher in defence.

Benitez has been there five years and hasn't brought through one young player of note. Instead he has to go out and pay big money every time he wants a new player or else get flops for free. Buying success seems to be all he knows.

[Acornvilla]

emmet has a point there. ngog and spearing(very rarely) are the only two that get any game time

[Angus]

The key question is why the turnaround from last season.

A few thoughts:

Gerrard and Torres are not fit and are both playing badly

Both are sicknotes and it is not natural for both to be out so often for so long. Torres has a serious problem and Gerrard approaching the end

Alonso a big loss

Liverpool in many games last year were rubbish but they were good enough in enough games and they were awesome in some, especially madrid, where they were almost unstoppable

However last season they played completely differently to most of the other sides. Man U, Chelse, Arse, all play possession and keep-ball.

Last season Liverpool were extremely high tempo high pressure and it is very difficult to maintain that - and significantly, it is easy to counter with some basic planning and with some problems in personnel

[old git]

Didn't once hear him blame the ref. The interviewer tried to put the words in his mouth i'll give you that but from what i saw of it it he was actually blaming his players for how they defended leading up to the peno. Reading deserved their win.

yes interviewer was doing his best to put words in his mouth.. but he did after 2-3 attempts by interviewer asking was he unhappy about refs performance say yes ... but in fairness interviewer was really giving him a hard time and really asked him some other awkward questions about team & players that he was never going to answer on live t.v. ..