Liverpool

[Closed Account 2]

Liverpool are team made up of confidence players, Gerrard, Reina and Torres apart they dont have natural leaders on the pitch. Last season with a bit more quality and experience in the team confidence was high and the players played with a degree of freedom. This season that confidence has totally gone and when you take out the likes of those three you dont have much leadership or conviction in the team and you have a squad of merely average players. Insua, Lucas, Kuyt, Benayoun, Ngog, El Zahar, this could be a Bolton or a Spurs squad.

I do wonder about letting Hyypia go - his pace wasnt great but he could have done a job every now and then, even in central midfield perhaps. Anyone care to tell me who is top of the Bundesliga at the moment? And who has conceeded the fewest goals - I'll give you a clue a Finnish defender has played 17 times for them. He had a good mentality and was a leader.

[KK77]

yes interviewer was doing his best to put words in his mouth.. but he did after 2-3 attempts by interviewer asking was he unhappy about refs performance say yes ... but in fairness interviewer was really giving him a hard time and really asked him some other awkward questions about team & players that he was never going to answer on live t.v. ..

All very true.

[Roadend]

I do wonder about letting Hyypia go -

Well wonder no more, he wanted to go, end of story

[Macy]

Gerrard and Torres are not fit and are both playing badly

Both are sicknotes and it is not natural for both to be out so often for so long. Torres has a serious problem and Gerrard approaching the end

Torres has always been a bit of a sicknote - that's arguably he ended up there rather than other "bigger" clubs. Devasting when fit, but not fit often enough.

[drinkfeckarse]

Personally I think Benitez has taken the team as far as he can. The politics at boardroom level certainly haven't helped but I think with the turnover of players that he has overseen during his time, he has signed far too many average players. Even with the big 2 out of the team, the rest of the side should be more than capable of sustaining a high level.
Against Reading, he fielded a side full of international players against a side battling relegation in the division below....and they were outplayed.
That says it all to me now. The players don't want to fight for the club or the manager and the tactics when the big 2 are out are often negative. Time for wholescale change IMO.

[jebus]

Just looking at the Liverpool squad and who I would keep if I took over and it's a pretty small list tbf

Riena, Johnson, Agger, Aquilani (if a decent offer came in I'd be tempted though), Benayoun, Maxi, Kuyt, Insua, Mascherano (same as Aquilani though), Torres and Gerrard (though bids of 50m and 25m would get them from me too)

It's a pretty shocking squad in fairness

[shakermaker1982]

Just looking at the Liverpool squad and who I would keep if I took over and it's a pretty small list tbf

Riena, Johnson, Agger, Aquilani (if a decent offer came in I'd be tempted though), Benayoun, Maxi, Kuyt, Insua, Mascherano (same as Aquilani though), Torres and Gerrard (though bids of 50m and 25m would get them from me too)

It's a pretty shocking squad in fairness

it wasn't that long ago that folk on here (well Liverpool fans) were saying they had a stronger squad than United!!! :D

I'd sell Gerrard. Past his best and if Inter/Man City came in with silly money for him he'd be straight out the door.

[KK77]

not seen Reder on here for a while. It would be interesting to hear his take.

He is keeping fine afaik. As a former regular match going red i'd be interested to hear what he has to say. Always good to hear fellow match goers opinions.

[razor]

Torres has always been a bit of a sicknote - that's arguably he ended up there rather than other "bigger" clubs. Devasting when fit, but not fit often enough.Its hard for him not to be injured when you see the kicking he takes week in week out, some savage treatment at times.
I think, if offered cheaply, Fergie or Wenger would bite the hand off you for Torres.


Against Reading, he fielded a side full of international players against a side battling relegation in the division below....and they were outplayed.All bar the keeper but as they say its not the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog.

[Macy]

Its hard for him not to be injured when you see the kicking he takes week in week out, some savage treatment at times.
Any good player takes more, but we're hardly talking 70's or 80's, and anyway my perception would be it's niggly muscle strains rather than injuries you'd "recieve".


I think, if offered cheaply, Fergie or Wenger would bite the hand off you for Torres.
Probably even if relatively expensive, point is they wouldn't pay the money that Liverpool did, and you wouldn't expect them to build all hopes around one player.

On the general squad, at this stage that's totally Rafa's doing - he can't be hiding behind it. Personally, I hope the match going Liverpool fans stay behind him (as it appears they are) and that he sees out his recent contract.

[razor]

Any good player takes more,Theres very few better than Torres.


Probably even if relatively expensive, point is they wouldn't pay the money that Liverpool did,Fergie spent £30M on Berbatov, Torres cost £20M.

[DeLorean]

I agree that there are very few better than Torres but he doesn't take that much of a 'kicking' in fairness. Players are overly protected now, especially the top ones. He might be fouled a lot, as are Messi and Ronaldo to an even greater extent I would think. It's hardly the reason he is out so often. As suggested above he'd never have survived the 70's if that's the case.

[razor]

He might be fouled a lot, as are Messi and Ronaldo to an even greater extent I would think. It's hardly the reason he is out so oftenWould agree about Messi but the other fella is on the floor as soon as he's breathed upon.

I think Torres hasn't had the chance to fully recover from the injuries he has sustained and these can lead to possible weaknesses in other areas.


As suggested above he'd never have survived the 70's if that's the case.To be fair to the lad, he wasn't born til 1984

[spudgunn007]

Its going to be a tough couple of years for Liverpool. They simply cannot afford, financially,to sack Benitez. Every penny that comes into the club, goes off servicing the debt the yanks have heaped onto the club. The only 2 ways money comes into the club is, 1- Selling players and 2- Winning trophies. If Liverpool sell their top players, they won't win anything. They wouldn't even get into the top 4. They won't win anything either with their current squad. Catch 22. Their only hope is for a take-over of the club, which doesn't even look like a runner at the moment.

[KK77]

Badly needed win last night just need to keep it going now. Thought Nick the Greek did well last night and against Stoke. Got his head to everything and gets stuck in. Tore the jersey off Crouch all the same!

[DeLorean]

Badly needed win last night just need to keep it going now. Thought Nick the Greek did well last night and against Stoke. Got his head to everything and gets stuck in. Tore the jersey off Crouch all the same!

Yeah this is the key part. I thought Spurs missed Huddlestone and Lennon hugely. Huddlestone in particular as he is the brains of their midfield and Jenas wouldn't lace his boots. Even Assou-Ekotto was a fairly big loss as I'd rate him much higher than Bale. I'm not ignoring Liverpool's obvious absentees by the way but with the match at Anfield I think Spurs really needed to be at full strength. The disallowed goal looked very questionable and obviously the penalty was blatent, that said Liverpool were the more dangerous team overall and deserved their win, Kuyt could have had 4 or 5 in fairness. Completely agree about Kyriakos as well, they were tough games to come into and he has been more than solid, thought he was immense against Stoke.

[Closed Account 2]

Wolves away, then Bolton and Everton at home - Liverpool will have to pick up at least 7 points from those games to give them a margin for error with the Arsenal and City away games in the middle of Feb.

I thought they got a good result last night, but the performance wasn't great and the brittle nature of the defence could have been exposed by a better team. Spurs were a bit one-dimensional upfront. Maxi Rodriguez could turn out to be a decent player for Liverpool, he might give them that cutting edge they lack with Torres and Gerrard spending so much time in the treatment room, but they need to get him involved and up to speed soon.

[endabob1]

Liverpool have watched the spurs home games with Stoke, Hull & Wolves, 10 men behind the ball, Spurs (especially without Lennon) lack the pace to get in behind and the creativity of Modric can be stiffled with numbers.
That said Liverpool had the better chances but Spurs had a cast iron penalty, Crouch could have sued for assault and I'm still confused about why Defoe's goal was ruled out, offside...foul....away team at a skyball big 4 club....
Liverpool need to be a lot better to haul in City imo, I'll be surprised if they get 4th.

[Emmet7]

What's Torres worth when fit?

80 million? If Ibrahimovich is worth that, Torres is definitely worth it.

Would any Liverpool fan not be tempted to accept that money if offered for Torres? Good bit of business I would say.

Then use the money to build a balanced team. Buy two or three good strikers, buy a couple of midfielders and a couple of centre backs.

You'd build a good team for 80 million.

[endabob1]

City have spent a lot more than that and aren't title contenders.

The only thing that sets Liverpool apart form the terry try hards like Spurs & Villa etc.. is Torres & Gerrard, they're the 2 who can win games single handed, for Arsenal see Fabergas & Arshavin, Chelsea Lampard, Drogba, Utd Rooney and... well Rooney really.
Spurs, Villa even City really have good players even really good players but no one of that calibre, once you start to sell those type of players you're in trouble imo.
Utd's gamble with Ronaldo looks like backfiring, 80m might buy 5 or 6 Valencia's but it won't but Ronaldo's 20+ goals a season back.

[Emmet7]

I know what you are saying. But the point I am trying to make is Torries is injury prone. If someone offered 80 million, would Liverpool fans not be tempted to take the money and run.

Don't get me wrong Torres is a top striker but he seems to play less and less and will probably be out most of this season.

Would it not be better to have 2 or 3 good strikers who aren't injured all the time and who between them score more than Torres.

Without Torres Liverpool can look very blunt up front a lot of the time.

[razor]

Would it not be better to have 2 or 3 good strikers who aren't injured all the time and who between them score more than Torres.. I'd say they should have these anyway, with or without Torres. One of Liverpools main problems is strength in depth up front.


Without Torres Liverpool can look very blunt up front a lot of the time.Missing one of the best strikers in the world can do that to a team.

[Roadend]

Liverpool need to be a lot better to haul in City imo, I'll be surprised if they get 4th.

With Mancini at the helm I'd be more confident of getting fourth

[DeLorean]

With Mancini at the helm I'd be more confident of getting fourth

What makes you think that?

[Roadend]

Watching him almost cost City the match the other night mostly, I'd be a lot more confident of them dropping points due to his "what we have we hold" mentality. Grand in Italy but not in the PL.

[DeLorean]

Watching him almost cost City the match the other night mostly, I'd be a lot more confident of them dropping points due to his "what we have we hold" mentality. Grand in Italy but not in the PL.

They did seem to go into their shell a bit after taking the lead. Even Given was delaying picking up the ball and that kind of thing. I found it kind of strange really, you would think a one goal lead would have only been a minimum requirement going to OT. Having said that maybe they could have done with more of a "what we have we'll hold" attitude in some of their games under Hughes.

[jebus]

Liverpool will get fourth

When you take into account that Liverpool have had a dreadful season and hold it up against Spurs (who have been playing possibly a little above them) and City (about their level) and see that Liverpool are only a point behind those sides you see that if Liverpool come into any sort of form they will easily secure the CL spot

[DeLorean]

You know things are bad when you only get a draw with Wolves, having barely created a chance, and you think you've turned a corner (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5888237,00.html)

[endabob1]

Liverpool will get fourth

When you take into account that Liverpool have had a dreadful season and hold it up against Spurs (who have been playing possibly a little above them) and City (about their level) and see that Liverpool are only a point behind those sides you see that if Liverpool come into any sort of form they will easily secure the CL spot

Or an alternative view, Liverpool have overachieved in recent years and are getting found out now, really Torres & Gerrard apart their squad is pretty weak

Bennayoun, Mascherano, Skyrtel, Agger, Johnson & Reina are good players but it's beneath that the problems are..I couldn't see Carragher in any other top half team, ditto Lucas & a few others who are regulars, even Kuyt who's having the season of his life is basically rubbish and would be a rotating striker anywhere else

[DeLorean]

even Kuyt who's having the season of his life

What the hell:confused:

[Roadend]

What the hell:confused:

My thoughts exactly

[Closed Account 2]

might be a typo, leaving out the "isn't" ?

[Roo69]

Kuyt will never set the world alight with his skills, but I personally think over the past couple of months he is one of the only Liverpool players to come out of their “crisis” with any credit. He’s work rate is 2nd to none and he just never gives up, he chips in with the odd goal and never complains or is in the papers mouthing off. If only Liverpool has a few more players as committed to the cause as this guy is, I don’t think they would be struggling the way they are at present.

I can't believe i've said that about Kuyt ! ha :D

[DeLorean]

I can't believe i've said that about Kuyt ! ha :D

This is about the only part of your post I can relate to!! Of course Kuyt isn't complaining, the guy is living the dream. With all of Benitez's rotational policies he plays Kuyt every single game without fail. He actually played in 38/38 League matches last season. He gets far too much praise for his work rate in my opinion, that's should be a minimum requirement for any player, especially one as limited as he is.

[Roo69]

This is about the only part of your post I can relate to!! Of course Kuyt isn't complaining, the guy is living the dream. With all of Benitez's rotational policies he plays Kuyt every single game without fail. He actually played in 38/38 League matches last season. He gets far too much praise for his work rate in my opinion, that's should be a minimum requirement for any player, especially one as limited as he is.

I would agree with you, It should be a minimum requirement for any player, its not. Very few players work consistantly hard week in week out, Kuyt does even if he is quite limited, but every manager has their favopurite players and will get more game time than most, again that is apart of football

[DeLorean]

I know, I just think people go overboard about how hard he works. There are plenty of players out there that work just as hard but are actually good. Benayoun has a fantastic work rate and is on another planet to Kuyt, footballing wise, but is only in and out of the team. Ultimately the players have to be judged on their overall contribution and on that score he's getting away with murder.

[Roo69]

I know, I just think people go overboard about how hard he works. There are plenty of players out there that work just as hard but are actually good. Benayoun has a fantastic work rate and is on another planet to Kuyt, footballing wise, but is only in and out of the team. Ultimately the players have to be judged on their overall contribution and on that score he's getting away with murder.

I don't think he is though, in the Liverpool side he is one of the hardest working players along with the likes of Benayoun (who should be getting a lot more starts than he is). In the Liverpool team over the 5/6 months he has contributed and offered a lot more than most of his team mates.

[endabob1]

Not sure why the reaction to my Kuyt comments, as Roo69 says he's one of the few players at Liverpool to emerge with any credit this season. He works hard and has been a mainstay in the side when Torres & Gerrard have been out. Don't get me wrong I think he's Rubbish (as I stated) but his form this season have been much much imporved.

[DeLorean]

Not sure why the reaction to my Kuyt comments, as Roo69 says he's one of the few players at Liverpool to emerge with any credit this season. He works hard and has been a mainstay in the side when Torres & Gerrard have been out. Don't get me wrong I think he's Rubbish (as I stated) but his form this season have been much much imporved.

I think he has been completely rubbish this season. He was actually better last season where he had a semi-decent run of form in the first half of the season particularly. The thing is that he had fellas around him last season in good form, now nearly everybody is playing rubbish so he doesn't stand out as much. If you have Lucas & N'Gog to critisise it will naturally take some of the emphasis of Kuyt, it doesn't mean he's after improving it just means there actually a couple of players worse than him now. I really don't see the big deal about his work ethic, fair enough it's one box that he ticks successfully but it doesn't make up for his lack of vision, finishing ability, crossing ability, ability to control the ball, etc, etc, etc.

[Lev Yashin]

I think he has been completely rubbish this season. He was actually better last season where he had a semi-decent run of form in the first half of the season particularly. The thing is that he had fellas around him last season in good form, now nearly everybody is playing rubbish so he doesn't stand out as much. If you have Lucas & N'Gog to critisise it will naturally take some of the emphasis of Kuyt, it doesn't mean he's after improving it just means there actually a couple of players worse than him now. I really don't see the big deal about his work ethic, fair enough it's one box that he ticks successfully but it doesn't make up for his lack of vision, finishing ability, crossing ability, ability to control the ball, etc, etc, etc.

Just one thing on Dirk Kuyt, I'm not his biggest fan but i do give him credit for trying to be sucessful in a position that is not the one he was playing in before he signed, You only have to look at his scoring record in Holland(i know its a weaker league) to see that he is/was a striker. He has never complained about playing out of position like a lot of players have, he has got his head down and worked for the good of the team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Kuyt

[liv4ever]

just wondering what people think of the aquillaini situation , I'm starting to think its similar to the robbie keane one where benitez has pais huge money for a player then then decided fairly quickly that he dose nt fancy him gives him the cold shoulder & ultimatley moves him on .

[papa-j]

just wondering what people think of the aquillaini situation , I'm starting to think its similar to the robbie keane one where benitez has pais huge money for a player then then decided fairly quickly that he dose nt fancy him gives him the cold shoulder & ultimatley moves him on .

how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

[KK77]

10 goals this season from right side Kuyt 15 last season not bad for a rubbish player! If only he was good!

[old git]

10 goals this season from right side Kuyt 15 last season not bad for a rubbish player! If only he was good!

in fairness to kuyt he was playing as striker in holland , when he signed for liverpool benetiz has used him as wide man / mid fielder give kuyt credit as he never once complained and always gave 100% for team
would be intresting to see if he would be let play up front with torres for a season or half /season just to see how he would do ..

[KK77]

in fairness to kuyt he was playing as striker in holland , when he signed for liverpool benetiz has used him as wide man / mid fielder give kuyt credit as he never once complained and always gave 100% for team
would be intresting to see if he would be let play up front with torres for a season or half /season just to see how he would do ..


In my opinion i reckon he wouldn't be allowed but would like to see it myself.

[old git]

[/B]


In my opinion i reckon he wouldn't be allowed but would like to see it myself.


strange benetiz wont play him up front !! prefer's ngog ... surely kuyt deserves his chance to see if he can produce the goals as main striker

[rava]

how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

[old git]

I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

did he not win an f.a. cup for liverpool ??? .. also english football now seems to be judged on winning a league title or champions league which seems to be the big one these days ( press & media) and his record not to bad in this ..

[papa-j]

I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

can you explain your statement about Benitez being the problem this year?

[Norm]

can you explain your statement about Benitez being the problem this year?

I'll have a go.

In my opinion the man has taken them as far as he can. They are an absolute disaster of a team & a squad. They are relying on 3 players, Gerrard, Reina & Torres. Rafa inherited 1 of them.
They play horrible football with no style.
He has proven himself a plonker in the transfer market. Selling Alonso was beyond a joke. Selling Crouch similiar. (I know these two points have been reiterated a billion times)
I don't buy the argument that he has broken even in the transfer market so its ok that he has spent millions, he still spent millions. On muck.
Liverpool are light years away from a league championship or a champions league.
His starting 11 V Stoke in January which pretty much was a flat back eight with a right midfielder & a striker was good craic.
Regardless of the nonsense going on behind the scenes at LFC, Rafa has over the last 5 years, been given money, he has squandered it and he is now struggling to finish fourth in the P.L. The current squad has been assembled by Rafa. It is a very, very poor squad.
If I had a ball of money to invest in LFC in the morning, I would struggle to do so in the knowledge that Rafa would be shopping with my millions.
His time is up.