Paul McShane

[yapster]

I think the main difference between Dunne and McShane is that Dunne had some natural ability to rely on. At a younger age, his "mentality", as Trapp would say, to the game was not as focussed or motivated as it should have been.

McShane cannot be faulted for effort - he unfortunately lacks the little bit of natural ability that Dunne was lucky enough to be blessed with.

In fact, somtimes the harder McShane tries, its more likely some calamity will strike him at any moment.



Spot on

[yapster]

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I remember O'Shea going AWOL for the home game against Italy. WHo knows. Don't forget it would also have gone to penos so 50/50 there.


O'Shea still lacks concentration at the best of times

[elroy]

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I remember O'Shea going AWOL for the home game against Italy. WHo knows. Don't forget it would also have gone to penos so 50/50 there.

I dont accept that to be honest, i think its harsh to blame JOSH for that goal. yes there was a gap on the right hand side as a result of him tucking into midfield, but the ball broke into midfield from the Italian area, he won the ball, it was unfortunate that the Italian defender connected with his clearance perfectly which set them free down the right hand side. It was still three on four at that stage and couldve been managed better than it was. The goal was almost like slow motion.


Paul O'Shea here used to always write that Dunne had a mistake in him in every game which he really only eradicated in the last year or two (FA Cup semi-final excepted) but I think that at the same age Dunne was a better player. I really hope McShane improves and maybe a good manager will help him do so. Right now though he puts the fear of God into me when I see him in green. Give me eleven McShanes over one Stephen Ireland any day though. I like his attitude a lot.

Its arguable that Dunne is still prone to the odd error every few games that perhaps top defenders arent. For example, as you have alluded he made a poor clearance in the cup semi against chelsea which was punished with the first goal, he also was very fortunate in the Bham game with a lapse in concentration that Larrsson shouldve punished. Thankfully he doesnt seem to suffer from these lapses playing for us with whom his performances in the last campaign in particular were top class.

[Charlie Darwin]

Dunne's been a bag of nerves since his mistake in the Carling Cup final. And it was his error that led to O'Shea's injury in Paris. But all-round this is probably his best season in the Premier League.

[Colbert Report]

Forget Dunne, this is McShane's thread.

McShane is a donkey who will be lucky to find a job in the Championship next season.

[Serb]

Forget Dunne, this is McShane's thread.

McShane is a donkey who will be lucky to find a job in the Championship next season.

That's a bit harsh, the Championship is his level.

[tetsujin1979]

Forget Dunne, this is McShane's thread.

McShane is a donkey who will be lucky to find a job in the Championship next season.

Player of the season with Brighton in the Championship before, I'd say he'll be well able for that level

[Charlie Darwin]

He's obviously good enough for that level. Anybody who says otherwise isn't approaching the situation with an objective eye. At the moment, he's still very much a Premiership player and will probably move to another one next season.

[Colbert Report]

Yeah, he'll definitely get a job in the Championship based on reputation, but really shouldn't based on his performances this season. I've watched a tonne of Hull matches and he is a major reason they are going down.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's easily their best defender since Turner left.

[Colbert Report]

Zayatte was the main man at the back until he got injured.

[Wolfie]

This is nonsense - Alex Ferguson seemed to think McShane had a bit of natural ability, and he tends to be a fairly good judge. Most United trainees don't make it at the top level, but they're all drafted because they have the raw materials. McShane is slow and his decision-making is questionable, but the same has been true of Richard for his entire career. McShane was on great form last year until Sbragia recalled him on loan to spite Phil Brown - there's no reason he can't become a really useful player in the future with a couple of years of uninterrupted game time. He might have to go back to the Championship for that, but there's a reason successive Premier League managers have invested in his talents.

Alex Ferguson is not an infallible judge as some of his dealings in the transfer market and retaining of some academy players have proven. How many first team appearances did McShane make for Man u anyway?

He's currently not good enough for International football and there's no point saying anything else.

I accept he may develop into a more reliable defender, he's certainly got the right attitude, but I'll be hoping a few better options arise at centre half and indeed full back, thanks.

[Charlie Darwin]

Alex Ferguson is not an infallible judge as some of his dealings in the transfer market and retaining of some academy players have proven. How many first team appearances did McShane make for Man u anyway?

He's currently not good enough for International football and there's no point saying anything else.

I accept he may develop into a more reliable defender, he's certainly got the right attitude, but I'll be hoping a few better options arise at centre half and indeed full back, thanks.
I said Ferguson picked him because he had raw talent - I don't really see how anyone can debate that. Some people seem determined to prove that McShane's entire career to date, most of it as a Premiership player, has been some gigantic mistake.

[yapster]

Even the best of managers will make mistakes at times. I hope McShane will improve his game but the signs aren't good. Yes he has great heart and enthusium but technically he doesn't seem to have improved. He has got to do the simple things well in his game.

[SkStu]

his concentration and decision making are the more worrying parts of his game, for me, as opposed to technique or the simple things.

[SilkCut]

McShane is CURRENTLY absolutely terrible, however his career does seem to be very similar to that of Dunne. Good start then awful for a few years before maturing into a very good defender based on his strength and ability to read the game. Hopefully this is how McShane will turn out but right now I would not have him on any team in the world.

[Wolfie]

Some people seem determined to prove that McShane's entire career to date, most of it as a Premiership player, has been some gigantic mistake.

Well, the above certainly does not represent my view.

He made one of the best debuts in an Irish shirt that I've ever seen, for starters. Sadly, its all been down hill from there - so far.

There's no agenda - I just think we need better options at the back to what McShane currently has to offer.

[seanfhear]

I think he needs to consisitently play as a centre back either in the premier league (if possible) or in the championship.

Sometimes centre backs mature a bit later and hopefully Paul will be one of those.

[ofjames]

He's obviously good enough for that level. Anybody who says otherwise isn't approaching the situation with an objective eye. At the moment, he's still very much a Premiership player and will probably move to another one next season.

take of the green tinted spectacles.

he must have close to 100 premiership appearances now?

you would struggle to find more than a handful of players who have made so many appearances at that level who have been worse than mcshane.

he's awful.

comparing to dunne is a nonsense. a young dunne with 12 pints on him would be less of a liability

any premiership manager that signs him will be a championship manager come 2011/12 season

[geysir]

ATM McShane is not awful, he is well capable of being a good defender for a top championship team, but I think now he would only get onto an EPL team with a strict budget.
I never saw much of the young Dunne outside his occasional appearances for Ireland.

There used to plenty of (awful) comments here, about O'Shea being awful before he reached the ripe age of 26.

[Charlie Darwin]

take of the green tinted spectacles.

he must have close to 100 premiership appearances now?
Yes, because he's good enough for that level. I'm not comparing him to Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Den Perry]

Good enough for premiership level? you are having a laugh mate

[ofjames]

he is one of the very worst defenders in premiership history.

comparing him to o'shea now? thats completely daft.

o'shea was criticised for not reaching the levels expected of him until the last year or so simply due to the fact he was so amazing in his first season season in the united team. it was a case of disappointment given he turned out to be only!? a man united squad player instead of one of the very best defenders in the world...

o'shea and dunne have spades of natural talent but perhaps slight faults in terms of their level of aggression (o'shea) and concentration (both o'shea and dunne - dubious though)

mcshane has little or no natural ability (i sat in canal end one night for a qualifier when he was RB... he sliced every single ball up the line out for a throw, not even one went straight let alone to a man), and will make a mistake that will or should have cost you a goal every game he plays (eg koller vs czechs, penalty vs wales, henry in paris, countless times in the brazil friendly second half).

all he's got is a spirit to run through brick walls and stick his head in front of anything that moves. although that is admirable for a footballer, that alone does not make him a good player

he is nowhere near premiership or international quality as it stands, and
barring some sort of complete transformation in his game, he wont ever be in my opinion

[Charlie Darwin]

Well I mean you guys are entitled to your opinions, but all of the circumstantial evidence is in my favour.

[Crosby87]

he is one of the very worst defenders in premiership history.

More than a bit harsh. Can you name all of the defenders in Prem history to back that opinion up with? Or do you just say something silly that you can't support like a politician does? Is that your thing? I mean I stopped reading after that line because it is such a dumb way to make a point and invalidates everything after it...

[geysir]

he is one of the very worst defenders in premiership history.

comparing him to o'shea now? thats completely daft.
Eh no, just comparing the level of criticism.


o'shea was criticised for not reaching the levels expected of him until the last year or so simply due to the fact he was so amazing in his first season season in the united team.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along. Maybe you are too young to remember and would need to go and read the O'Shea thread.
He was criticised for 5 or 6 years because of his performances.
He was criticised because from the moment he came on in his first game for us, he was a liability for a goal.
People came on here and swore blind that he was useless, a coward, beyond repair, too nice, absent minded, can't pass, cant tackle, can't score from sitters, gives away penalties, anybody but O'Shea (even Maybury), and would never ever make a decent defender for us.


he is nowhere near premiership or international quality as it stands,
He isn't good enough for us but he is the squad, looking over his shoulder at the new kids coming in.
Why do you think Trap has shifted O'Shea from his best position for us, out into RB.

Premiership quality? There is no one premiership quality. Which premiership quality? The top, the middle or the bottom third?
The botom third are no great shakes.

[ofjames]

More than a bit harsh. Can you name all of the defenders in Prem history to back that opinion up with? Or do you just say something silly that you can't support like a politician does? Is that your thing? I mean I stopped reading after that line because it is such a dumb way to make a point and invalidates everything after it...

i was talking in the context of players who have made the number of appearances that he has at that level (ie... around 100).

of course you would know that if you bothered to read beyond the first line of my earlier post.

and in that context, i can think of very few players who performed as poorly as mcshane, or displayed the same propensity for calamity. he's right up there with titus bramble, boumsong, nosworthy, michael duberry.

if you think thats a silly point, your entitled to your view.

[ofjames]

Eh no, just comparing the level of criticism.


Do you just make stuff up as you go along. Maybe you are too young to remember and would need to go and read the O'Shea thread.
He was criticised for 5 or 6 years because of his performances.
He was criticised because from the moment he came on in his first game for us, he was a liability for a goal.
People came on here and swore blind that he was useless, a coward, beyond repair, too nice, absent minded, can't pass, cant tackle, can't score from sitters, gives away penalties, anybody but O'Shea (even Maybury), and would never ever make a decent defender for us.


Firstly, "Maybe i'm to young to remember?" Thanks for the condescending pat on the head. Very Classy.

I'm 24 so thankfully i can just about recollect the period of my life from 18 onwards...

Unsurprisingly, having only joined the forum in late 2006 I did not take the effort to read back the entire John O'Shea thread to its initiation in 2002. My bad :rolleyes: I guess I may have better things to do.

Taking your word for it that that level of criticism was leveled at O'Shea in that thread, I can only say that I think people were grossly unfair to him. I dont think it was ever merited, and I think my point is valid that the level of criticism would not of been so sever had he not set the expectation level so high in his breakthrough year at united (a season when he rightly should have been named Young Player of the Year)



He isn't good enough for us but he is the squad, looking over his shoulder at the new kids coming in.
Why do you think Trap has shifted O'Shea from his best position for us, out into RB.

Premiership quality? There is no one premiership quality. Which premiership quality? The top, the middle or the bottom third?
The botom third are no great shakes.

semantics. my point is clear, if i dont think he's good enough for Hull who have been relegated I dont think he is good enough for any premier league team.

[John83]

and in that context, i can think of very few players who performed as poorly as mcshane, or displayed the same propensity for calamity. he's right up there with titus bramble, boumsong, nosworthy, michael duberry.
Bramble was Wigan's player of the year last year. Boumsong is a player with nearly 30 caps for France, a country fairly blessed with defensive talent during his career. He's currently playing for one of the top teams in France. Nosworthy was a career championship player who was signed as cover by Sunderland and took advantage of injuries to get some playing time. He's back playing at his level. Dubarry was a solid top tier Premiership player until injuries started to take their toll and he began to look foolish in an increasingly erratic Leeds team. I don't see how comparison with these players makes McShane a write-off.

[SkStu]

Gary Doherty anyone?

[Paddy Garcia]

I always felt the criticism of O'Shea was harsh - often (not always) peddled by an anti Man U brigade. Also it was always debatable. However I dont think I have ever seen a worse player in a green shirt than McShane - even in the B internationals.

Dunne's ability was never in any doubt. Commitment of course when younger but not skill.

Even the Hull fans (no great expectations) are fed up with McShane. And only last week:

"Hull had only themselves to blame for the messy build-up to the opening goal after full back Paul McShane failed to clear a routine high ball. His daft clearance struck John Carew and bounced to Agbonlahor, who drilled it into the top corner. 'It was a joke goal,' Dowie admitted.
After McShane had comically tried to give away a second goal to Carew, George Boateng conceded a penalty when he hauled down Milner, who sent Matt Duke the wrong way".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1267866/Hull-0-Aston-Villa-2-Iain-Dowie-jeered-Gabriel-Agbonlahor-James-Milner-land-KO-blows.html

[ofjames]

Bramble was Wigan's player of the year last year. Boumsong is a player with nearly 30 caps for France, a country fairly blessed with defensive talent during his career. He's currently playing for one of the top teams in France. Nosworthy was a career championship player who was signed as cover by Sunderland and took advantage of injuries to get some playing time. He's back playing at his level. Dubarry was a solid top tier Premiership player until injuries started to take their toll and he began to look foolish in an increasingly erratic Leeds team. I don't see how comparison with these players makes McShane a write-off.

bramble and boumsong were a laughing stock at newcastle. they were utterly dreadful.

perhaps bramble has made an improvement in the last year, but his track record is appalling. he's blessed that he found managers who persevered with him for so long... this being his 7th season at the top. i would suspect the reason managers have shown this (blind) faith has to do with the fact he is a complete beast in a physical sense. something mcshane clearly is not. perhaps mcshane will prove me wrong and become an adequate defender for a team like wigan in the premiership, i would think its far more likely he will end up in chamionship or league one a la gary doherty however.

nosworthy played regularly at right back under mccarthy in the premiership and 2 season starting centre back for keane at that level - all the while keeping mcshane out of the team.

the only place mcshane hasnt looked terribly exposed is at championship level. that is his level every bit as much as it is nosworthy's.

duberry moved to leeds aged 23. he was really poor for them, and poor for every other club he has since turned up at. solid top tier defender? no not for me

[Brendan 82]

bramble and boumsong were a laughing stock at newcastle. they were utterly dreadful.

perhaps bramble has made an improvement in the last year, but his track record is appalling. he's blessed that he found managers who persevered with him for so long... this being his 7th season at the top. i would suspect the reason managers have shown this (blind) faith has to do with the fact he is a complete beast in a physical sense. something mcshane clearly is not. perhaps mcshane will prove me wrong and become an adequate defender for a team like wigan in the premiership, i would think its far more likely he will end up in chamionship or league one a la gary doherty however.

nosworthy played regularly at right back under mccarthy in the premiership and 2 season starting centre back for keane at that level - all the while keeping mcshane out of the team.

the only place mcshane hasnt looked terribly exposed is at championship level. that is his level every bit as much as it is nosworthy's.

duberry moved to leeds aged 23. he was really poor for them, and poor for every other club he has since turned up at. solid top tier defender? no not for me

How was Duff at Newcastle? Compare that to him now. What about Carr?, Writing off a player because he performed poorly at Newcastle is harsh

[Paddy Garcia]

How was Duff at Blackburn?
How was Duff at Chelsea?
How was Duff for Ireland?
How was Carr for Spurs?

It's not comparing apples in my opinion Brendan - I don't think there is any example of a spell where McShane shone?

And I'd not write him off either. However I'd not let him near an Irish squad until he proved that he was not an unremitting liability.

[ofjames]

How was Duff at Newcastle? Compare that to him now. What about Carr?, Writing off a player because he performed poorly at Newcastle is harsh

I never thought i'd see anyone who was more reluctant to criticise a footballer than Jamie Redknapp on Sky. Seems like i've found one after another on this thread however. You guys are a very considerate bunch!

Harsh? He's been absolutely atrocious for Wigan at times also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Drrc1--vY

[Charlie Darwin]

You're exaggerating again. Nobody is reluctant to criticise McShane - none of us would have him starting for Ireland - but there's a difference between being reluctant to criticise him and saying he's not good enough to play in the league he's been playing in for the past three years.

[geysir]

I always felt the criticism of O'Shea was harsh - often (not always) peddled by an anti Man U brigade. Also it was always debatable. However I dont think I have ever seen a worse player in a green shirt than McShane - even in the B internationals.

Dunne's ability was never in any doubt. Commitment of course when younger but not skill.

Even the Hull fans (no great expectations) are fed up with McShane. And only last week:

"Hull had only themselves to blame for the messy build-up to the opening goal after full back Paul McShane failed to clear a routine high ball. His daft clearance struck John Carew and bounced to Agbonlahor, who drilled it into the top corner. 'It was a joke goal,' Dowie admitted.
After McShane had comically tried to give away a second goal to Carew, George Boateng conceded a penalty when he hauled down Milner, who sent Matt Duke the wrong way".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1267866/Hull-0-Aston-Villa-2-Iain-Dowie-jeered-Gabriel-Agbonlahor-James-Milner-land-KO-blows.html

Hindsight is a wonderful panacea for smoothing the edges. No it wasn't even an anti Man U agenda here that pounced on Josh.
I could pick any number of games O'Shea played in for ireland.
Against Israel at the age of 24 O'Shea was just as much a liability for Ireland as McShane is now and Josh had stronger competition then for nr 1 scapegoat. I would doubt your honesty if you thought this criticism was harsh on O'Shea, because it was fair and accurate at the time.
"Very poor positioning"
"John O'Shea - The weak spot all night, gave away passes, drifted into the middle, on more than one occassion Duff was doing a better job of a left full!"
"He seemed to loose concentration a number of times and misplaced a few passes that should have been simple."
"John O'Shea was pathetic - careless, lazy and sloppy all night"
"There's times I think that my idea of playing left-back is completely different to reality! Maybe you're supposed to drift infield and let Reid cover back all the time? Maybe you're supposed to clear sloppily, hoof the ball into play or straight to the opposition."

What makes it look harsh is that Josh has worked hard since on his game to come good, to be a first choice for us and sorely missed when not around. McShane has every chance to do the same. Probably the odds are against it happening, the odds are against most players reaching a top standard.

[Stuttgart88]

I never understood the level of criticism directed towrads O'Shea. I always felt it was mainly from people way younger than Geysir and me who had only ever known football via the Premiership, and who felt that just because we were a hundred-odd miles west of the world's biggest football club and the world's biggest league that we had a right to expect world class players in every position. When you consider how far and wide the top 4 in England spread their youth scouting network it's great testimony to O'Shea that he made it at MUFC and is a very valuable player.

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think there is any example of a spell where McShane shone?Player of the season at Brighton when he was on loan there.

[Acornvilla]

fergeson also rated him when he was at united did he not? and he was pretty good at west brom. i think he will be a good championship player, he has the heart of a lion but he is a liability. I wish every player worked as hard as he does thou you cant fault the guy for attitude, hopefully with experience he will cut out the mistakes, and i think his big problem for us is he never really got a shot at CB and he often played RB for hull and Sunderland as well so its a bit unfair to judge him on that, richard dunne would be a liability at RB too in all fairness.

[ofjames]

fergeson also rated him when he was at united did he not? and he was pretty good at west brom. i think he will be a good championship player, he has the heart of a lion but he is a liability. I wish every player worked as hard as he does thou you cant fault the guy for attitude, hopefully with experience he will cut out the mistakes, and i think his big problem for us is he never really got a shot at CB and he often played RB for hull and Sunderland as well so its a bit unfair to judge him on that, richard dunne would be a liability at RB too in all fairness.

ferguson praised him for having a great attitude and being a good leader - and no one can deny this really. I remember a quote saying he reminded him a little of Keane with his mentality. i dont remember him saying much about him in terms of his ability tho, as opposed to someone like evans or pique who he consistently raved about.

he was taken on a couple of pre-season tours with the first team to the USA where he played the odd game but he never made a senior appearance competitively nor even made the bench.

ferguson also talked up paul tierney as a great prospect around the same time so I wouldnt read that much into the fact he praised mcshane.

i suspect the reason he has played so often at RB is because he has been exposed so frequently at cb when he has played there. a sensible damage limitation exercise in my eyes.

[ofjames]

You're exaggerating again. Nobody is reluctant to criticise McShane - none of us would have him starting for Ireland - but there's a difference between being reluctant to criticise him and saying he's not good enough to play in the league he's been playing in for the past three years.

the mere fact he spent three years contracted to premier league clubs doesnt in itself make him good enough for that level. managers make mistakes on players all the time. eric djemba djemba spent three or four years between united and villa. still doesnt change the fact he was useless and nowhere near the required level.

sunderland cast him off as not good enough. in my view his performances at hull have proved them right in that judgement.

[Charlie Darwin]

I didn't say that alone makes him good enough - merely that my opinion is not that unreasonable since it's one shared by a handful of Premier League managers. We're obviously not going to agree, but I am making a fairly simple point. I'm not "reluctant to criticise" anyone, I just think he's a decent player who's proven his worth at Premiership level. It doesn't mean I think he's immune to criticism.

[irishfan86]

I think the consensus seems to be that at this stage of his career, he's a lower level premier league player/upper level championship.

Sure you get the odd Colbert saying he would be sh*t in the Championship (simply not true based on his time at Brighton), but for the most part I think it's understood that he's a rudimentary player with a great attitude, but a liability at international level.

I don't think there's a point in completely writing him off, but personally I shudder when he steps on the field. This doesn't mean, however, that he's not good enough for the Championship. Anybody saying that probably doesn't realize how bad some of the teams in the Championship actually are.

[John83]

How was Duff at Blackburn?
How was Duff at Chelsea?
How was Duff for Ireland?
How was Carr for Spurs?

It's not comparing apples in my opinion Brendan - I don't think there is any example of a spell where McShane shone?

And I'd not write him off either. However I'd not let him near an Irish squad until he proved that he was not an unremitting liability.

Player of the season at Brighton when he was on loan there.
He was a big player for West Brom too - in the running for their Player of the Season, though I don't think he won it. You'd swear Big Brother was at work here sometimes: McShane is not playing well. McShane has never played well.

[Paddy Garcia]

Hindsight is a wonderful panacea for smoothing the edges. No it wasn't even an anti Man U agenda here that pounced on Josh.

......
What makes it look harsh is that Josh has worked hard since on his game to come good, to be a first choice for us and sorely missed when not around. McShane has every chance to do the same. Probably the odds are against it happening, the odds are against most players reaching a top standard.

I dont want to constantly have a downer on McShane!

But .... I really never agreed with the criticisms of O'Shea & I accept that there were many. Overall I always thought he was in credit - did more good than harm!

The point I was making is that I don't feel the comparison to O'Shea is credible.

My view is that the likes of O'Shea & Kilbane were soft targets. People seem far more forgiving of McShane ... & that's OK.

I do however think that if O'Shea was such a poor player in his youth he would have been let go by Man U & would never have clocked up so many appearances.

Also in many of the games O'Shea, & others, played for us without any meaningful midfield cover.

[geysir]

O'Shea´s performances for us for years were poor. I can drag up 10 games from the top of my head with some horror memory, equal if not greater than anything McShane has done.
We can play snap.

I can't believe that you never agreed with the criticism of O'Shea´s performances. How can I trust your judgement of a players attributes? :)

One difference is (and to some extent the same goes for Gibson) that there was some trust in Ferguson's judgement and belief in fulfillment of promise sometime in the future (the sound of the penny dropping), rather than looking definitively at the content of actual performances for us.

Whereas, McShane is tottering about the relegation zone with the ugliest team in the epl, and only Trap still having faith in his worth to the squad.

[elroy]

[QUOTE=geysir;1354614]O'Shea´s performances for us for years were poor. I can drag up 10 games from the top of my head with some horror memory, equal if not greater than anything McShane has done.
We can play snap.

QUOTE]

i dont agree with this at all, JOSH wasnt hitting the scales that we expected of him after his first year with united but to say he put in poor performances for us for years? Like when? Im not denying he has had the odd poor game but not on a consistent basis.

[dr_peepee]

[QUOTE=geysir;1354614]O'Shea´s performances for us for years were poor. I can drag up 10 games from the top of my head with some horror memory, equal if not greater than anything McShane has done.
We can play snap.

QUOTE]

i dont agree with this at all, JOSH wasnt hitting the scales that we expected of him after his first year with united but to say he put in poor performances for us for years? Like when? Im not denying he has had the odd poor game but not on a consistent basis.

Nah.. It's true. He wasn;t a disaster but he was a soft pass or a panic in possession waiting to happen in most games for a long time. After his first season the opposition learned to close him down quickly whilst in posession andhe got caught alot. That said he's obviously grown since.

[yapster]

O'Shea had the potential to be a hell of a player but I don't think he had the mental strength at that age to fulfill it. He lost his composure on the ball and wasn't committing himself into tackles.