Paul McShane

[FarBeag]

He's 21. He's career's just starting, relax.




He will be 22 when the season starts and he won’t be any better. I think the Keane is in a better position to judge if McShane is a centre back or not and it’s quite obvious he does not think so. If he does not play him there when the regular centre backs are injured he never will.He may have played a good game there against the more recognised strikers like Koller, Berbatov, etc and done well due to they being on the bigger side, but he cant choose who he will get paired with and smaller strikers like Martins and Owen would take him apart as it proved on Sunday. He may play better when paired with Dunne but who will guide him when Dunne is injured?

He needs to get out of Sunderland and find a club who are willing to take the risk of playing him in the centre. If he proves me wrong and plays like a centre should marking all type of strikers not just the bigger ones I will hold my hand up. In the meantime though he is just not good enough and inspires no confidence in me whatsoever.

[eirebhoy]

He will be 22 when the season starts and he won’t be any better. I think the Keane is in a better position to judge if McShane is a centre back or not and it’s quite obvious the he does not think so. If he does not play him there when the regular centre backs are injured he never will.
The partnership is far more important than the individual players and McShane has had some nightmares beside both Higginbottom and Nosworthy. In saying that, I'm sure he would have done well against Viduka.

btw, if Dunne is injured we're screwed no matter who we play.

[FarBeag]

The partnership is far more important than the individual players and McShane has had some nightmares beside both Higginbottom and Nosworthy. In saying that, I'm sure he would have done well against Viduka.

btw, if Dunne is injured we're screwed no matter who we play.



If this is the case then we should give Paddy McCarthy or Sean St Ledger a go. I know they play in the Championship but they are regular centres who play there week in week out. Yeah it’s frightening to have to rely on Dunne being fit or suspension free for us to have any hope in this group.

[jmurphyc]

The partnership is far more important than the individual players and McShane has had some nightmares beside both Higginbottom and Nosworthy. In saying that, I'm sure he would have done well against Viduka.

btw, if Dunne is injured we're screwed no matter who we play.

Exactly. Dunne and McShane have generally looked solid together. However, if McShane was paired with O'Shea or O'Brien I'd be very worried, but I'd also be worried if it was an O'Shea-O'Brien partnership. Dunne is experienced and has enough football intelligence to help McShane through games, the others don't.

As for the F365 worst 11 of the year, F365 is a s**tty tabloid-esque site and I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people write on there. Besides, I could give you my worst 11 of the season, but I'd have watched most of the players 1 or 2 times and caught highlights for the rest of them. The only people who could properly decide a team/worst team of the season relatively accurately are people who have watched each team about 20 times during the season.

[as_i_say]

In Summary, things are so bad now that I am in praying for Andy o Brien to change his mind... :(

I think Paul McShane is done, another Gary Breen...
might work out for some lower division club somewhere but not international level or english premiership

FFS! Do you even remember Gary Breen playing for Ireland? Such a stupid comparison. Despite Breen's dodgy club form at times his performances in an Ireland shirt were extremely solid-he rarely let us down and was a model pro.

McShane would be doing very well at this stage to even get close to Breen's consistency when playing for Ireland.

[FarBeag]

You can’t compare Breen and McShane. Breen may have been prone to the odd mistake but he was a miles better player than McShane. He was a leader for a start and his positional sense was much better, well most of the time anyway. I wish he was a few years younger.

[tetsujin1979]

You can’t compare Breen and McShane. Breen may have been prone to the odd mistake but he was a miles better player than McShane. He was a leader for a start and his positional sense was much better, well most of the time anyway. I wish he was a few years younger.
Not a chance mate, Cunningham told him where to go and what to do.

[dr_peepee]

He will be 22 when the season starts and he won’t be any better. I think the Keane is in a better position to judge if McShane is a centre back or not and it’s quite obvious he does not think so. If he does not play him there when the regular centre backs are injured he never will..

Not entirely correct. All that decision on Sunday showed was that he thinks McShane's a better rightfull than Higanbotham.

Had it just been Evans that was unnavailabe then that would have been a true reflection on where evans is in the pecking order.

He'll be given another year at Sunderland I reckon, and rightly so. He has had more than just one good game at the start of the season as some here seem to think. I've seen every televised game this Season involving Sunderland. I dunno what the frame of reference is for some people's opinions. Paul McShane is a brutal full back is about all i'll agree with....

[FarBeag]

Not a chance mate, Cunningham told him where to go and what to do.



He may have but I assessed Breen as quite vocal and a good organiser. I think they both complimented each other. He wasn’t afraid to have a go at Keano either. Out of interest would you play McShane before him if he was still in his prime?

[paul_oshea]

Not a chance mate, Cunningham told him where to go and what to do.

I didnt know ye guys were mates?! ;)

[FarBeag]

Not entirely correct. All that decision on Sunday showed was that he thinks McShane's a better rightfull than Higanbotham.

Had it just been Evans that was unnavailabe then that would have been a true reflection on where evans is in the pecking order.

He'll be given another year at Sunderland I reckon, and rightly so. He has had more than just one good game at the start of the season as some here seem to think. I've seen every televised game this Season involving Sunderland. I dunno what the frame of reference is for some people's opinions. Paul McShane is a brutal full back is about all i'll agree with....


Higginbotham is his regular right back isnt he but played in the centre on Sunday as stand in for Evans.If McShane was good enough for the centre why was he not played there?

Its posible that McShane will stay for another season but its not going to do us any favors if we intend to use him as our centre back. He will not get a regular place in the Sunderland team and i am sure Keane will buy some more defenders.He needs to move imo.

[Dr. Ogba]

Higginbotham is his regular right back isnt he but played in the centre on Sunday as stand in for Evans.If McShane was good enough for the centre why was he not played there?

Its posible that McShane will stay for another season but its not going to do us any favors if we intend to use him as our centre back. He will not get a regular place in the Sunderland team and i am sure Keane will buy some more defenders.He needs to move imo.

Higginbotham is a left-full by trade and Collins and Bardsley are their regular full backs

[dr_peepee]

Higanbotham started his career at left full but at Stoke and even I think Southampton before that he was played at centre half. He's only played left full this season when Collins was out.... He's defo not a right full though.

[Pike B]

Higanbotham started his career at left full but at Stoke and even I think Southampton before that he was played at centre half. He's only played left full this season when Collins was out.... He's defo not a right full though.
How come commentators pronounce it : HIGG IN BOTT UM instead of the way it's spelt: HIGG IN BOTH AM....
Just wondering...

[FarBeag]

Ledger and McCarthy? If you're going for comedy value in our defence lets try calling Des Bishop and Andrew Maxwell up first! :D



Well, you’re one person on here who I would not be looking to for advice on any football related issues so I will just have to ignore this feeble attempt of sarcasm.;)

[Qwerty]

Sorry for repeating myself yet again but lack of height doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest if he can put in motm performances against Koller, Berbatov, B.McCarthy and Davies. Put him at centre half, let him man mark a target man and he's proven he can eat them up. :)

Well he was an unknown quantity when he put in those performances, he is not unknown any more and his limitations can easily be exposed by a smart agile striker. He has to improve his concentration, absolutley key for a slow-ass. And curb his inclination to commit to tackles when they're not on.

I agree lack of height isn't a major problem, Fabio Cannavaro is a midget :)

[eirebhoy]

Well he was an unknown quantity when he put in those performances
Blackburn and Bolton were his 3rd and 4th last starts for Sunderland. The people judging the players in the fantasy football marked him down as the best player on the pitch against Blackburn and 2nd to Jones against Bolton. In fact he still has more bonus points than any other Sunderland defender which shows that he has put in a few outstanding performances. Some people may laugh that I take those bonus points so seriously but I'd trust them more than any other media source since they're judged by ex-pro's.

[as_i_say]

Thats a fair point but at the moment his confidence is on the floor and he was genuinely terrible at the weekend. He could come good again but I wouldnt have him near the team against Serbia. Gotta play your form players if possible. At least he got that dulux dog fringe of his cut so that he can see properly now, unfortunately it didnt do him any good on sunday!

[youngirish]

Blackburn and Bolton were his 3rd and 4th last starts for Sunderland. The people judging the players in the fantasy football marked him down as the best player on the pitch against Blackburn and 2nd to Jones against Bolton. In fact he still has more bonus points than any other Sunderland defender which shows that he has put in a few outstanding performances. Some people may laugh that I take those bonus points so seriously but I'd trust them more than any other media source since they're judged by ex-pro's.

In fairness Eirebhoy fantasy football ratings are the last I'd trust when judging a player. For example most of the fantasy football games in the English tabloids seem to assign a mark to a player then multiply it by a factor of approx 1.5 (not sure the actual weigthed value) if that same player happens to play for England. They are generally fairly poor and not consistent with the actual games that I've watched.

[eirebhoy]

In fairness Eirebhoy fantasy football ratings are the last I'd trust when judging a player. For example most of the fantasy football games in the English tabloids seem to assign a mark to a player then multiply it by a factor of approx 1.5 (not sure the actual weigthed value) if that same player happens to play for England. They are generally fairly poor and not consistent with the actual games that I've watched.
I don't know I find them very accurate. I usually agree with their top 3 players whenever I see a premiership game. I'm talking about the official premier league fantasy football though, not the ones in the papers. I doubt the tabloids have ex-pro's officially assigned to every game.

btw, Dunne had more bonus points than any premiership defender last season and he's top again this season with 33 points, 6 ahead of Laursen, who himself is 6 points ahead of the next best.

And they absolutely love Andy Reid.

[the doc]

Ledger and McCarthy? If you're going for comedy value in our defence lets try calling Des Bishop and Andrew Maxwell up first! :D

Thats unfair, maybe if you took the time to go to the games you would be able to make a judgement.
St Ledger has been outstanding all season for Preston and has already won 3 of the fans player of the year awards and tipped to win the clubs official awards as well.
McCarthy has played regularly for Charlton too, so in my opinion they are both worth giving a chance.

[tetsujin1979]

btw, Dunne had more bonus points than any premiership defender last season and he's top again this season with 33 points, 6 ahead of Laursen, who himself is 6 points ahead of the next best.Considering Dunne hasn't scored this season, whereas Laursen and Lescott are the top goalscoring defenders, and Dunne was sent off against Blackburn, it's more impressive.

[John83]

McCarthy has played regularly for Charlton too, so in my opinion they are both worth giving a chance.
Is McCarthy still getting sent off regularly?

[Stuttgart88]

I've heard that McCarthy has had a very good last third of the season. Andy Reid says he's the kind of character you'd want in the trenches with you. I said a year or two ago that I think he's decent but I wanted him to push his game on that bit extra but as yet I don't think he's done it, merly just repeating his better form at Leicester. I was surprised he didn't make the 40 man squad tbh. He was a lynchpin during Givens' most successful period in the U21s (12 or 13 unbeaten, plus a few headed goals) so I'd have thought he'd have had a good word to say about him to the new management.

[Stuttgart88]

Thats unfair, maybe if you took the time to go to the games you would be able to make a judgement.
St Ledger has been outstanding all season for Preston and has already won 3 of the fans player of the year awards and tipped to win the clubs official awards as well.
McCarthy has played regularly for Charlton too, so in my opinion they are both worth giving a chance.I agree with the Doc here. Both St Ledger and McCarthy should merit consideration.

[tetsujin1979]

He was 3rd in the Charlton player of the year poll, Matt Holland won it

[The Legend]

He may have but I assessed Breen as quite vocal and a good organiser. I think they both complimented each other. He wasn’t afraid to have a go at Keano either. Out of interest would you play McShane before him if he was still in his prime?

I guess my point was there are both naturally pretty slow and get destroyed by quick defenders... thats unlikely to change .... didnt mean to upset all the Gary Breen lovers.

[Dr. Ogba]

He was 3rd in the Charlton player of the year poll, Matt Holland won it


Yikes! Jaysus the whole Charlton team must've been absolute much if the invisible man is still their best player!

[Stuttgart88]

My cab driver in London on Saturday was a Brighton fan. He said McShane is a legend down there, really highly regarded and he can't understand why he's struggling, especially as he noted he had done well at WBA too. They think Wayne Henderson is a tool.

[paul_oshea]

why?!

[gufct]

Gary Breen was probably our best performer at WC 2002 so to compare him with McShane is laughable.

[John83]

why?!
He asked for a transfer when he was dropped?

[BigmanCas]

Gary Breen was probably our best performer at WC 2002 so to compare him with McShane is laughable.

What? I think you will find that Steve Stauntons' performances were such that Gary Breen could only but have played well. A bit like the Mc Grath/Babb partnership in 1994.

Robbie Keane was outstanding in every game in 2002 as was Damien Duff (albeit perhaps a bit slow to get out of the traps against the Cameroon)

[Billsthoughts]

Staunton was exceptional in 2002 WC alrite....

[SunderlandBohs]

My cab driver in London on Saturday was a Brighton fan. He said McShane is a legend down there, really highly regarded and he can't understand why he's struggling, especially as he noted he had done well at WBA too. They think Wayne Henderson is a tool.
Good. Tell your cab driver they can have the useless oaf back for free! In fact, we'll give them £2.5m to take him. The reason he is struggling is because he is a Championship player at the very best!

[eirebhoy]

Wait and see how he does beside Dunne again in the friendlies. I'm sure Trap was impressed overall with what he saw of McShane in the previous Ireland games. He mentioned McShane once or twice along with McGeady as promising young players in the press conference. McGeady has been very poor for Ireland but it's obviously clear to Trap how talented he is. It's also clear how good McShane can be to those that can remember his excellent performances. Trap just has to work out what makes him play well and I'm sure Richard Dunne will play a huge part.

I think that's our best partnership. McShane does really well against the big guys. Dunne would eat up your Kenny Miller's or Craig Bellamy's that the likes of Vidic, Cannavaro, Puyol, etc, would have really struggled against in the past. They compliment each other well.

[SunderlandBohs]

Wait and see how he does beside Dunne again in the friendlies. I'm sure Trap was impressed overall with what he saw of McShane in the previous Ireland games. He mentioned McShane once or twice along with McGeady as promising young players in the press conference. McGeady has been very poor for Ireland but it's obviously clear to Trap how talented he is. It's also clear how good McShane can be to those that can remember his motm performances.
Yeah like his motm performances against Newcastle, Everton & Wigan!! And how, when he was dropped from the Sunderland line up in January, the team suddenly got good results, stopped leaking goals and stayed up with two games to spare! It's plain to see that McGeady has talent to be a top player but McShane is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen play for Sunderland! And I've seen some bad defenders play for us down thru the years.

[eirebhoy]

Yeah like his motm performances against Newcastle, Everton & Wigan!!
Wigan? Oh yeah, Evans was much better that day. Evans was the guy at fault for McShane's OG. They were both as bad as each other that day. Newcastle - I'll ignore any of his performances at right back because he's not a right back. Everton - he was destroyed obviously.

Anyway, let's see if he puts in poor performance beside Dunne. Most young centre half need an experience, intelligent guy beside them. I keep going back to Bobo Balde but he was absolutely top class beside Mjallby, abysmal beside Varga. Unlike Balde, McShane will gain plenty of tactical knowledge and won't need to be guided for the rest of his career.



And how, when he was dropped from the Sunderland line up in January, the team suddenly got good results, stopped leaking goals and stayed up with two games to spare!
After the Everton game:

Sunderland 1-0 Derby
Chelsea 2-0 Sunderland
Sunderland 1-1 Aston Villa
Reading 2-1 Sunderland
Sunderland 0-4 Man Utd
Sunderland 3-1 Bolton
Blackburn 1-0 Sunderland

The Man Utd game aside that's not bad at all. I remember Phil Thompson singing his praises against Chelsea saying he was winning every header and tackle. Going on reports, those last 2 games were motm performances.

If I'm not mistaking, that Everton game was the start of McShane's run at centre half. Nosworthy and Higginbotham were the 2 centre halves up until then but Nosworthy got injured and McShane-Higginbotham was the partnership for all the above games. The 2 full backs against Everton were Harte and Whitehead. What a terrible defence for a young guy to be thrown into. I don't rate Higginbotham at all. McShane will be so much better than him at that age.

So the above games, plus the Everton game, was McShane's period as a centre half for Sunderland, partnering a very poor organiser imo. The Wigan game - Nosworthy's first game back, Evans' debut. A totally new defence and everybody was poor. McShane was dropped because Evans was going to get his chance and the McShane-Evans partnership had failed in the previous match.

Again, I'm just happy that Trap saw how good McShane can be and that's fresh in his memory.

[SunderlandBohs]

Is that you Paul? Lets look at the results without McShane.

H 2-0 Portsmouth
A 2-0 Spurs
H 2-0 Birmingham
A 3-0 Liverpool
H 2-0 Wigan
A 1-0 Portsmouth
A 0-0 Derby
H 0-1 Everton
H 0-1 Chelsea
A 0-1 Villa
H 2-1 West Ham
A 1-3 Fulham
H 1-2 Man City

6wins 6 defeats 1 draw. 5 clean sheets 12 goals against pts 19.
The games with McShane in the squad after the Everton game read; (Not including Wigan in the FA Cup)
2 wins 4 defeats 1 draw 1 clean sheet 11 goals against pts 7.

The facts speak for themselves! As for the stupid statement that McShane is better than Evans! What are you smoking? What you basing that on? The fact that Evans can't get in ahead of Ferdinard Vidic & Brown? Evans is a star in the making. Ask any football fan, they'd pick Evans over McShane.

[Billsthoughts]

In fairness he was saying for that particular game, Evans(as you point out the darling boy of the Sunderland crowd) was just as bad as MacShane.

[SunderlandBohs]

But the facts prove that McShane isn't up to Premiership football. If he's not up to that he ins't up to international football. Remember he was poor last time out against Cyprus & Wales.

[eirebhoy]

As for the stupid statement that McShane is better than Evans!
I never said that. I'm bewildered how you could make that mistake.


But the facts prove that McShane isn't up to Premiership football.
We'll never know that until he plays beside a proper partner. For all we know Michah Richards might have conceded 7 against Everton alongside rubbish like Higginbotham.

[dr_peepee]

Yeah like his motm performances against Newcastle, Everton & Wigan!! And how, when he was dropped from the Sunderland line up in January, the team suddenly got good results, stopped leaking goals and stayed up with two games to spare! It's plain to see that McGeady has talent to be a top player but McShane is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen play for Sunderland! And I've seen some bad defenders play for us down thru the years.

:rolleyes: What was said about Noz in his early days, remind me?

It's very sweeping statement to say the team suddenly got good because McShane was dropped... So it was nothing to do with the aditions to the squad in Jan, is that what your saying??

McShane is a rubbish full back is all I'll conceed in your statement. That aside you're talkin out of yer a**e. How you can write off a 21 year old given some of the performances he's had for Sunderland and Ireland is beyond me. You may argue I'm ignoring the blips, but you are clearly ignoring his start to the season and some of his Ireland performances. He'll come good along side the right man.

[SunderlandBohs]

Yes the season changed with the with addition in January. Evans & Bardsley came in & McShane & Higginbotham got dropped. He had one good game against Spurs at the start of the season. That's it! He bottled it in the biggest game of the season against Newcastle. As for Norsworthy & Collins. They did get some stick but didn't look anything as bad as McShane. I was always a big fan of Nuggys & knew if giving the chance he'd make it. I admit that I wasn't a fan of Collins. But he did show glimspes of been a good player for us in his first season with us under McCarthy. Maybe Danny can be an example to McShane. But I doubt it. If McShane wasn't Irish everyone on here would be talking about how bad he is!

[an_ceannaire]

i dont think its giving anyone any perverse pleasure to say McShane is ****e lads. We would all love if he was class, we would all love if he was Richard Dunne or even Kenny C, but he is not. Saying a guy is a **** footballer is not a personal attack on his person.....its just saying he is a **** footballer. The one thing he has in his favour tho, is time, not too many years ago Richie Dunne was the "most accident prone donkey" in England and look at him now. Its not all over for PM yet, but the way people were talking about him after the Czech game, well......there is a reason Trappa wants Andy O'Brien back.....

[dr_peepee]

Yes the season changed with the with addition in January. Evans & Bardsley came in & McShane & Higginbotham got dropped. He had one good game against Spurs at the start of the season. That's it! He bottled it in the biggest game of the season against Newcastle. As for Norsworthy & Collins. They did get some stick but didn't look anything as bad as McShane. I was always a big fan of Nuggys & knew if giving the chance he'd make it. I admit that I wasn't a fan of Collins. But he did show glimspes of been a good player for us in his first season with us under McCarthy. Maybe Danny can be an example to McShane. But I doubt it. If McShane wasn't Irish everyone on here would be talking about how bad he is!


He had more than just one good game at the start of the season, acknowledged by more than just green tinted irish fans. Evans and Bardsley came in, yes, but what about the removal of Dwight Yorke from his anchor role, where he had all the mobility of the Tin Man??? Too many variable to simply say mcshane's omision was the reason.... He'll come good.

And if you were a big fan of Noz at the start you were in the minority cos he was poison..

[eirebhoy]

Yes the season changed with the with addition in January. Evans & Bardsley came in & McShane & Higginbotham got dropped. He had one good game against Spurs at the start of the season. That's it!
Not according to the ex-pro's watching the matches for the Premier league FF. Chosen in the top 3 players on the pitch in matches against Spurs, Birmingham, Bolton and Blackburn. All 4 games he played centre half. He's probably been decent more often than not in his games at centre half this season.

[Metrostars]

To me, the problem with McShane is that he can be a world beater in one game and absolute shyte in the next. Also known as "inconsistant".

[geysir]

My problem is
Higgin bottom or Higgin botham ?

[kingdom hoop]

To be fair to you Geysir, distinguishing an arse from an English cricketer can be a very difficult task!