Paul McShane

[carloz]

According to the reviews he was the worst player on the pitch by quite a distance, Dunphy will like that

[paul_oshea]

ya mcshane we thought was great when we only saw the little glimpses of bits of matches where he looked really good, but as we see more of him we can see that he definitely isnt with it.....his lack of pace isnt made up by his positional sense. Dont know what he is going to do.....

[danonion]

Ya you could well be right on this, id agree. But think of Phil Babb here, he was fine beside McGrath cos McGrath made him look fine.

McShane has the same football brain as Phil Babb. But Phil Babb was twice the athlete that McShane is; McGrath couldn't make McShane look good because he is too slow, in that regard Babb was the perfect foil for McGrath circa 1994, since Babb could cover ground and McGrath's knees were well and truly shot.

[hamburg paul]

Well lads as i said before ,he is not a good player and certainly not up to international scratch, one good game against Jan Koller and he suddenly becomes a superstar ?me thinks not ,the way that sunderland are playing at the moment augurs well for the championship,and that is where he belongs !:ball:

[mattie]

Although he has had a couple of bad weeks. I would say he is still young at 21. At his age we were saying similar things about Richard Dunne. McShane is still a prospect and can learn. He has only been at a top division club for a few months. I still think he will be a good player.

[rambler14]

7 goals today and McShane was at fault for 5 of them.
Christ you could turn a bus in a garage quicker than him.

[Noelys Guitar]

Come on. Dunne had nightmare games at 21 and look at him now. McShane is a good player with a lot to learn. His attitude is brilliant. So give him a break.

[backstothewall]

It isn't his atitude thats in question, it all aspect of his defensive game. If he has any future at international, premiership or even championship level, it has to be a righ fullback. He had a goal kick from howard to deal with, swung at it and missed allowing yakubu in for the one, then let Johnson get goal side on a long ball over the top for another. That is bread and butter stuff. Even in park football you simply don't let the ball bounce.

Talent is useless with out attitude, and attitude is useless without talent. If we had a few more players with McShane's attitude and Clinton Morrisons talent, we would be a lot better off than we are.

[danonion]

Walsall is right. There is no comparison with Dick Dunne and Paul McShane. Dunne had talent, his problem was he was turning up drunk to training and had very little commitment to football. McShane has the commitment but he is a donkey.

Andy O'Brien is proving that form temporary, class permanent adage has a bit of merit to it, he is doing great for Bolton and has to be miles ahead of McShane in any reasonable manager's eyes.

[cheifo]

Five live commentrary said O Brien was outstanding v Man U.After Germany I would like to see Joey O Brien at CB again.Could be a long term option and hopefully a revelation.
On MOTD.Shearer:"McShane had a game he will want to forget.
Lawerson:"Are you sure it is'nt Mcshame":rolleyes:
Hopefully the lad will bounce back because he is young and the whole Sunderland team looked a mess.

[Stuttgart88]

It was Andy O'Brien they were praising for Bolton (or did i misunderstand the post?).

Anyway we have no competitve game for nearly a year but on current form I'd have AO'B and JO'S ahead of McShane, with Dunne the obvious shoe in. I agree that Joey O'B did well against Germany but I'm not sure you can trust a makeshift CB over the longer run. If we had a game next month I'd have McShane in the squad and in the squad only.

Anyone get a look at St Leger in the Preston vs Charlton game that was live on SKY? He was playing left sided CB in the first 10 mins.

[sligobhoy67]

Five live commentrary said O Brien was outstanding v Man U.After Germany I would like to see Joey O Brien at CB again.Could be a long term option and hopefully a revelation.
On MOTD.Shearer:"McShane had a game he will want to forget.
Lawerson:"Are you sure it is'nt Mcshame":rolleyes:
Hopefully the lad will bounce back because he is young and the whole Sunderland team looked a mess.

O'Dea would be a better long term option afaiac

[Poor Student]

O'Dea would be a better long term option afaiac

Let him win a place at Celtic first. He's 4th or even 5th choice centre half at Celtic depending on where you place Steven Pressley.

[eirebhoy]

Well lads as i said before ,he is not a good player and certainly not up to international scratch, one good game against Jan Koller and he suddenly becomes a superstar ?
Well he was rated very highly at Man Utd and was getting motm in almost every game for Brighton. I really do think he has an excellent brain so unlike Phil Babb he'll be learning a lot with every game. Maybe his lack of natural talent is being shown up atm but I just can't see him not being a great organiser when he's older.

As for him playing right back, I'd rather he retired. He lacks most of the things you need to be a right back. You don't need pace to be a centre half.

Dunne-McShane is still my first choice partnership by far. I think they really compliment each other well.

[the doc]

It was Andy O'Brien they were praising for Bolton (or did i misunderstand the post?).

Anyway we have no competitve game for nearly a year but on current form I'd have AO'B and JO'S ahead of McShane, with Dunne the obvious shoe in. I agree that Joey O'B did well against Germany but I'm not sure you can trust a makeshift CB over the longer run. If we had a game next month I'd have McShane in the squad and in the squad only.

Anyone get a look at St Leger in the Preston vs Charlton game that was live on SKY? He was playing left sided CB in the first 10 mins.


I was at the game, thought St Ledger did well had to cope with the ariel and physical threat of Iwelomo and the pace and movement of Thomas and Zeng.
Thought he handled them well, like the way he read the game and at times stood off and allowed Iwelomo to jump for the ball and then just swept up Iwelomo's flick ons.
Looked comfortable on the ball and was always available.

As for McShane saw his performance last night on TV and showed what a lot of WBA fans and some of the coaching staff had been saying about him.
He flatters to deceive and is being found out! lacks pace, does not read the game well, and has poor distribution.

On watching both these players performances then surely the likes of St Ledger deserves a chance in the Ireland team to show what he can do, far more accomplished than the very limited pair of McShane and Bruce.

As they say in Football "Sometimes it's better to be a lucky footballer than a good one"

Well it looks like McShanes luck is running out!

[Stuttgart88]

When I saw St Leger last year I thought he looked like a more aggressive version of Gary Breen. That's actually not a bad thing in my opinion, before people ask!

[Qwerty]

McShane is the #3 center-half at Sunderland, he only plays in the center when the Nosworthy & the other guy aren't fit, otherwise it's right back just as it was at West Brom, but the kid is young.

I didn't see the game yesterday but he lined up alongside: Higginbotham, Harte, Edwards from what I cna tell - 3 full backs!

McShane will make a decent center-back alongside a pacey partner. The problem is when he has an off day and his concentration is poor he will look appallingly bad. McShane needs 100% concenration to be effective in the Premier League and at international level as he doesn't have the pace which can get you out of trouble and give you a second chance.

[Kivlehan]

Everton was definitely targeting McShane and Ian Harte yesterday. McShane was pretty bad but did make a few nice blocks. Unfortunately for Sunderland, it appeared there were 4 extra Lee Carsleys on the pitch because whenever they moved forward he appeared from nowhere and broke it up. For all the goal scoring, Carsley was the MotM in my opinion. He completely annihilated anything Sunderland tried to do and that created plenty of opportunity for the Everton goalscorers. McShane might be better off in a holding midfield role where his lack of pace might not hurt as much. Without the speedy Nyron Nosworthy as his partner, he was a mess.

[zinedineontour]

McShane is the #3 center-half at Sunderland, he only plays in the center when the Nosworthy & the other guy aren't fit, otherwise it's right back just as it was at West Brom, but the kid is young.

I didn't see the game yesterday but he lined up alongside: Higginbotham, Harte, Edwards from what I cna tell - 3 full backs!

McShane will make a decent center-back alongside a pacey partner. The problem is when he has an off day and his concentration is poor he will look appallingly bad. McShane needs 100% concenration to be effective in the Premier League and at international level as he doesn't have the pace which can get you out of trouble and give you a second chance.

McShane only moved to right back a few weeks ago when halford got suspended he is actually a centre half for us. And he didnt line up alongside 3 full backs. Higginbottom is a centre half and Edwards was playing right of midfield.

[eirebhoy]

McShane is the #3 center-half at Sunderland, he only plays in the center when the Nosworthy & the other guy aren't fit, otherwise it's right back just as it was at West Brom, but the kid is young.

McShane played centre half, Nosworthy right back against Newcastle. Did ok.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Now that Andy O'Brien is playing regularly again he and Dunne should be our first choice centre backs.

I think that there is a bit of an overreaction after McShane's performance yesterday. He may have felt under pressure after being criticised for giving up the penalty last week. He's still only 21 and I think that he has shown enough to be at least a good squad player for us over years to come.

[paul_oshea]

when i searched "paul mcshane" on this forum, this page only showed up on the 3rd results page....i would have thought a thread title with his name would have been top of the list?

Anyhow, fair play to keane for keeping faith in him, but I honestly cant see how he is still in the sunderland team, he definitely needs a more experienced centre half beside him - at a minimum as a start.

[Stuttgart88]

I think McShane will do fine in due course.

However, if there's one lesson that, in my mind anyway, is becoming increasingly obvious from the Stan regime it's that playing players just because they are young and promising and likely to be the best player in that position in the future is wrong.

In McShane's case it was slightly different. He was played mainly because we had nobody else. Dunne is our clear number 1 CB and Andy O'Brien was out of form and out of favour at his club. O'Shea was probably next in line but was needed to fill gaps elsewhere (both full back positions & centre-mid). The only other options for the role are the likes of St. Leger, McCarthy, Bruce, Joey O'Brien (makeshift choice) and O'Dea. All of these are relative rookies too. McShane has done reasonably well but has been prone to slips and lapses in concentration.

If we were playing a competitive game tomorrow I'd have O'Brien or O'Shea in beside Dunne. Only when a younger player is a better player should he be in the team. If he's no longer U21 eligible have him in the squad. If he's U21 play him in the U21s and build for a successful future that way. If he's U21 only if he's exceptional or worthy of a place on merit should he be with the seniors. McGeady for example. Maybe/probably also Joey O'Brien.

I personally would be tempted to look at Garvan in this context. Gibson should be in the U21s, along with Andy Keogh, Shane Long & Anthony Stokes.

[paul_oshea]

agreed

[the doc]

I think McShane will do fine in due course.

However, if there's one lesson that, in my mind anyway, is becoming increasingly obvious from the Stan regime it's that playing players just because they are young and promising and likely to be the best player in that position in the future is wrong.

In McShane's case it was slightly different. He was played mainly because we had nobody else. Dunne is our clear number 1 CB and Andy O'Brien was out of form and out of favour at his club. O'Shea was probably next in line but was needed to fill gaps elsewhere (both full back positions & centre-mid). The only other options for the role are the likes of St. Leger, McCarthy, Bruce, Joey O'Brien (makeshift choice) and O'Dea. All of these are relative rookies too. McShane has done reasonably well but has been prone to slips and lapses in concentration.

If we were playing a competitive game tomorrow I'd have O'Brien or O'Shea in beside Dunne. Only when a younger player is a better player should he be in the team. If he's no longer U21 eligible have him in the squad. If he's U21 play him in the U21s and build for a successful future that way. If he's U21 only if he's exceptional or worthy of a place on merit should he be with the seniors. McGeady for example. Maybe/probably also Joey O'Brien.

I personally would be tempted to look at Garvan in this context. Gibson should be in the U21s, along with Andy Keogh, Shane Long & Anthony Stokes.

I think you have to question Stan's selection of McShane ahead of St Ledger for the Czech game, when you consider that McShane never even made the bench for the Cyprus game.

All the talk of Robson talking him out of playing McShane in Cyprus was rubbish, as if that was true why was he not on the bench?

Think it was more to do with Stan picking an Irish born player in an attempt try and field off the flack he was getting from the fans back home.

[NeilMcD]

I am not great defender of Staunton but he got the decision spot on that night. He does not have many things that he did well so lets not take those little ones away from him now that he is gone.

[the doc]

I am not great defender of Staunton but he got the decision spot on that night. He does not have many things that he did well so lets not take those little ones away from him now that he is gone.

Time will tell on that one! Two differant types of CB's one a stopper type (Paul) and the other a bringing the ball out and playing type (Sean).

[as_i_say]

Mcshane has been an utter disaster for Sunderland in the past few, well, months really. Ive been watching him with interest and not since our own Gary Breen has a player turned up to single handedly give away goals. Breen however rarely let Ireland down. McShane is a complete headless chicken at the moment. I can imagine Sundeland fans taking a deep breath every time he gets the ball.

Obviously Keane sees something in him- I think its pretty clear that he has a top attitude and that’s definitely worth something but I wouldn’t have him near our team at the moment.

Never thought I would say it but I would prefer O’Shea as CB to partner Dunne. Maybe now that he’s not getting regular starts with Man U it might help him!

[eirebhoy]

Mcshane has been an utter disaster for Sunderland in the past few, well, months really.

He was apparently one of their best players against Bolton and was voted motm by a few against Blackburn. They conceded 3 against Wigan but Nosworthy was playing for the first time in a while and Evans was making his debut. He wasn't at fault for any of the goals, even his own goal was just very unfortunate.


Obviously Keane sees something in him
So do I. I still think Dunne-McShane is our best partnership. They get the best out of each other.

[Dr. Ogba]

I agree that McShane doesn't look great these past few weeks but I definitely wouldn't be writing him off just yet. As said earlier he has an exemplory (sp??) attitude and seems willing to learn the ropes which is really half the battle. Lest we forget, the legend that is Richie Dunne only started coming in to his own in the past 3-4 years so there's plenty of time for him to learn.

imho I think now that O'Brien's playing regularly and playing well, I'd have him as first choice for the next campaign but I think McShane is an able deputy and he will be a far better player by the time the next Euro's campaign comes around....

[paul_oshea]

He wasn't at fault for any of the goals, even his own goal was just very unfortunate.

you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds. Only thing can be said is dunne was prone to this at a young age also.

[tetsujin1979]

you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds. Only thing can be said is dunne was prone to this at a young age also.
Most central defenders are prone to mistakes at that age, Micah Richards struggles when Dunne is not beside him, ordering him what to do. At the same age as McShane, John Terry was getting arrested outside nightclubs, Carragher was playing right full, and a variety of other positions, while Hyppia and Henchoz were the centre halves.
It takes a long time to learn how to read the game in defence, Dunne is only hitting his peak now at 28 but he didn't start to emerge as a top class central defender until he was 25, 3 years older and more experienced than McShane is right now. Give him time.

[Stuttgart88]

There's a big difference between writing him off and not thinking he should be in the starting XI right now.

If we had a qualifier tomorrow I'd pick O'Brien or O'Shea ahead of McShane.

[citizenerased]

poor player...hasnt got it...great lad im sure..and full of heart, but ireland cant start him in these vital qualifiers. It would be suicide, a calamitous headless chicken is being kind..

[eirebhoy]

I agree that McShane doesn't look great these past few weeks but I definitely wouldn't be writing him off just yet.
I think the last few weeks has been his best form in a long time. The Bolton and Blackburn games were his last 2 premiership games. Since the Everton game he has mainly done well.


you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds.
He wasn't directly at fault for that goal though, Johnny Evans was. If McShane didn't rush back to cover it was almost certainly a goal anyway. Agahowa ended up getting to the ball slightly before McShane and pushed it into McShane's path. Maybe he was out of position and could have been more in line with Evans but all I saw was one clip of the goal. His positioning can be sorted out with an organiser beside him.

[sadloserkid]

poor player...hasnt got it...great lad im sure..and full of heart, but ireland cant start him in these vital qualifiers. It would be suicide, a calamitous headless chicken is being kind..

Bingo. Paul McShane has a wonderful attitude and determination and is physically sound. He has no technique to speak of and while his mental abilities may develop over time he looks well out of his depth right now. He looks like a Gah player turned loose on a football field tbh.

[eirebhoy]

Yet he has the ability to mark big target men like Koller, Berbatov and Davies out of the game and look the best player on the pitch while doing so. ;) I know it's unfair to class Berbatov as a target man but he certainly played like one against McShane.

[Stuttgart88]

He looks like a Gah player turned loose on a football field tbh.
Like Kevin Moran?

[sadloserkid]

Yet he has the ability to mark big target men like Koller, Berbatov and Davies out of the game and look the best player on the pitch while doing so. ;)

That would be the same Koller that he lost abysmally for the goal yes? Paul McShane seems incapable of concentration. Ridalin might help.

[sadloserkid]

Like Kevin Moran?


Exactly. :) Only awful.

[eirebhoy]

That would be the same Koller that he lost abysmally for the goal yes?
The same Koller that scored yes but I think it says it all if you think he was "lost abysmally". There were a lot of factors in that goal. O'Shea's stupidity in throwing the ball to the Czechs to take a quick free kick and strolling back, leaving McShane one on one with Koller. He kept with Koller and pushed him out wide. Henderson's positioning was poor.

Of all things I can't believe you'd actually question is concentration for that goal. I find that very strange.

[sadloserkid]

The same Koller that scored yes but if I think it says it all if you think he was "lost abysmally". There were a lot of factors in that goal. O'Shea's stupidity in throwing the ball to the Czechs to take a quick free kick and strolling back not realising. McShane left one on one with Koller. He kept with Koller and pushed him out wide. Henderson's positioning was poor.

McShane gave his man far, far too much space. End of. He's nowhere near the completed product and he's hardly in his teens anymore. He's a championship defender who's incapable of doing the right thing for 90 minutes. He does well in spells but he's a constant risk.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually think he's less primitive than people think. He actually tries to find team mates with his headed clearances and tries to pass the ball. Not always successfullly mind you!

I don't think playing at a struggling team with quite a few players out of their depth helps him to be honest. I didn't see the game this weekend but any reports I read named Evans as the culprit.

[eirebhoy]

McShane gave his man far, far too much space. End of.
As soon as Koller receives the ball McShane is on him and their arms are nearly tangling together. If that was Richard Dunne I'm sure people would give him the benefit of the doubt. What did you think of Carew's goal against Dunne a couple of weeks ago? Or Santa Cruz's 2nd last week when Dunne was marking him? McShane must be the most picked on player I've ever known.

Fair enough, he may not do the right thing for 90 minutes but I don't think he can be accused of lacking concentration. It's just an easy accusation to make like "poor first touch" is for a striker.

[jmurphyc]

McShane gave his man far, far too much space. End of. He's nowhere near the completed product and he's hardly in his teens anymore. He's a championship defender who's incapable of doing the right thing for 90 minutes. He does well in spells but he's a constant risk.

I'm unsure as to whether he'll ever really make it. He's really determined and works really hard, but his positioning and decision making are poor, but he's still young. Centre backs take a lot of time to mature and you can't really say he's completely finished until he's about 25. Look at Dunne FFS. He was hardly amazing at that age. McShane may have the potential to make it. What isn't helping him is not having an experienced leader partnering him who's telling him what to do like he has for Ireland. The problem is he's been rushed through into Ireland's first eleven too early as there was nobody else at the time. If he was just a young Irish player who'd never been capped we'd be praising him a lot more.

[citizenerased]

fair point jm..what your saying is he is a victim of situation..i have to admit i thought he was a lot better than he is...

[irishfan86]

McShane is a great prospect, and due to our lack of options at centre-half is a definite squad player.

He's a work in progress at this stage and his consistency is questionable, as it is for the majority of centre-halfs at his age.

I don't see much between him and Andy O'Brien at this point, both of them have their strengths and weaknesses, but at least we have 3 Premiership centre-halfs now, and that will provide some competition.

For me, I'd be playing one of Andy O'Brien and McShane beside Dunne, whoever is in better form, and leaving the other on the bench.

At least the emergence of McShane, and the resurgence of O'Brien give us a little more depth at that position, and hopefully a little more stability.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough, he may not do the right thing for 90 minutes but I don't think he can be accused of lacking concentration. You may be right in general, but I honestly thought the late equlaliser in Cardiff (only example I can think of - Koller's goal was o'Shea's lapse and Henderson should have saved it) was nothing but a lack of concentration. That said, if I was the keeper I'd have been reminding him to keep his eye on the forward.

[eirebhoy]

I would have just put it down to lack of pace. A ball over the top. Ireland were playing a very high line. McShane reacted quicker than the striker but the striker outdone him for pace. I think he's a player that is always focused, whether he's doing the right thing or not.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe so!