Paul McShane

[as_i_say]

I find it very hard to believe that a public internet forum could be the source of a negative case due to the soft statement that I made above. I asked the question just to find out whether its true or not as I couldnt believe I hadnt heard of it previously.

If it is true I couldnt care less but perhaps my post was ill-advised so I'll say no more on the matter and sorry if anyones offended-didnt mean anything just curious!

[backstothewall]

I think his performances against Koller and Berbatov show that his height won't be a problem. It's the small, speedy players that'll trouble him.

I don't think it shows anything other than Spurs had an off day, and Koller, despite his height, is better with the ball played into feet. It is bound to catch him out sooner or later.

I think he is an able defender, but he will make a much better right back

[paul_oshea]

today again at times he was too quick to jump in, needs to be more level headed and to start reading the game a little better. I would also portion some of the blame on him for milners goal, if yer not going to make it dont go for it, he put everyone else off with his fresh air attempt. I think he should have got some clearance on it as well, first player to cut that ball out. thats a few times this year that he has been at fault ( not necessarily solely his fault though... ). Harte against City, its becoming an Irish thing.

[eirebhoy]

I would also portion some of the blame on him for milners goal, if yer not going to make it dont go for it, he put everyone else off with his fresh air attempt.
You can't be serious? Are you actually just looking for his faults? :) He wasn't even an inch away from the ball, it grazed his boot.

[Morbo]

Paul McShane: 6' 0".
Fabio Cannavaro: 5' 9 1⁄2"

McShane: 6'0"?
Where did you get that info?
I seriously doubt he is 6 foot, looks 5'11 at the most, probably more like 5'10 1/2. Decent player with good attitude but I don't think he is ever going to be the player some people think he is going to be, his mental side of the game may improve but his height or pace won't, unless we pump him full of growth hormones and steroids

[tetsujin1979]

McShane: 6'0"?
Where did you get that info?
I seriously doubt he is 6 foot, looks 5'11 at the most, probably more like 5'10 1/2. Decent player with good attitude but I don't think he is ever going to be the player some people think he is going to be, his mental side of the game may improve but his height or pace won't, unless we pump him full of growth hormones and steroids
Google "Paul McShane" Sunderland +height and the majority of the results say 6', or 5'11

[Colbert Report]

I don't see why people are complaing about McShane. Richard Dunne is our best centre half - no question. Andy O'Brien or Joey O'Brien aren't great players. The only player we have who might be better than McShane at that position is John O'Shea, but he is capable of playing left back, right back, and centre mid. When fit, this is Ireland's best team now that Stephen Carr has retired. I really think this should be the team heading into the next qualifying campaign.

Given
Finnan-Dunne-McShane-Harte/Kilbane
McGeady-Reid-Reid-Duff
Keane-Doyle

subs:
O'Shea
Harte/Kilbane
Joey O'Brien
Carsley
Hunt
Potter
Long

That's not a bad team really.....

[backstothewall]

And the performance i have been waiting for arrives. He was dreadful all round, and seemed to be heavily invoved in every mistake our defence made. Bring back Andy O'Brien

[carloz]

Personally i would prefer if O'Shea partnered Dunne. But i really wish our squad could have the attitude of McShane. It is obvious that he would put his head on the line for Ireland.

[micls]

It is obvious that he would put his head on the line for Ireland.

It's also obvious there's not that much in it....

[backstothewall]

Don't get me wrong, his attitude is super, but there are hundreds of thousands of young lads who would have gone out there with a super attitude. He reads the game badly, is slow and short. As a defender no amounts of attitude, heart or bravery can make up for those shortcomings

[Maroon 7]

Don't get me wrong, his attitude is super, but there are hundreds of thousands of young lads who would have gone out there with a super attitude. He reads the game badly, is slow and short. As a defender no amounts of attitude, heart or bravery can make up for those shortcomings

Good attitude alright but you can see why Man U let him go. He's small for a centre-half and he lacks pace. Makes up for his shortcomings by running around like he's got a nest of wasps in his underpants.

[Qwerty]

He is not the finished article and I don't know how good he is going to be, I think it's worth pointing out that at West Brom & Sunderland he has been usually played at right-back.

But he is young and learning a lot, I hope the coaching at Sunderland is good. He has come a long way since his Brighton days.

[alansmithccfc]

Don't rate him at all. Then again Ii dont rate many of the current players bar 3 or 4

[tetsujin1979]

He is not the finished article and I don't know how good he is going to be, I think it's worth pointing out that at West Brom & Sunderland he has been usually played at right-back.

But he is young and learning a lot, I hope the coaching at Sunderland is good. He has come a long way since his Brighton days.
He's rarely played at right full for Sunderland, centre half more often than not.

[kingdom hoop]

Maybe he's the answer to our right-wing (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LxBvhokHHx8) problems!

[billybunter]

Don't get me wrong, his attitude is super, but there are hundreds of thousands of young lads who would have gone out there with a super attitude. He reads the game badly, is slow and short. As a defender no amounts of attitude, heart or bravery can make up for those shortcomings

i disagree with that. I do think a positive attitude and bravery can overcome a lack of natural ability, and some other shortcomings. I find it very hard to criticize players that give 100% (kilbane and mcshane for example). When you have superman Ireland who is blessed with the talents listed above, yet doent give a flying fook about playing for his country - give me McShane anyday. Mcshane can be judged in about 4-5 years - the same amount of time it took Richie Dunne to master the center half position. If i recall correctly, Dunne started off at right back for Everton as well. McShane and Dunne will be a good heart of the irish defence for years to come.

[Paddy Garcia]

Mcshane can be judged in about 4-5 years - the same amount of time it took Richie Dunne to master the center half position. If i recall correctly, Dunne started off at right back for Everton as well. McShane and Dunne will be a good heart of the irish defence for years to come.

Dunne's talent was obvious from day 1. It was his commitment (to football rather than to Ireland) that was in question!

O'Dea looks to have more natural talent than McShane, so is a better bet for the next 4/5 years.

[sullanefc]

It is obvious that he would put his head on the line for Ireland.
He turned away from one shot during the game so there goes that argument for him.

He really went down in my estimation yesterday. He had a poor game.

And the penalty he gave away was criminal. And I don't want to hear this "He is learning" rubbish. An under 16 schoolboy player wouldn't be thick enough to drag a player to the ground on the edge of the box.

All he had to do was get goalside of the player. He was never going to put one past Given from there anyway.

[Sligo Hornet]

He turned away from one shot during the game so there goes that argument for him.

He really went down in my estimation yesterday. He had a poor game.

And the penalty he gave away was criminal. And I don't want to hear this "He is learning" rubbish. An under 16 schoolboy player wouldn't be thick enough to drag a player to the ground on the edge of the box.

All he had to do was get goalside of the player. He was never going to put one past Given from there anyway.


Exactly....that was all he had to do which is nothing more than the basic art of defending...at any age or level!

Even after making his positional error why did he not drag the striker down well ouside the box when he knew he couldn't get the right side of him?

[dr_peepee]

He has shortcomings, yes... But like that it's about playing the best 'Partnership' as opposed to the two best centre halves. McShane and Dunne for me... For now.

Also, we forget how young he is for a centre half... The Micah Richards of this world really are the exception.

[amaccann]

I think he's gonna get better over time - defenders tend to mature over the years & learn the game as they play; look at Dunne. It's not so long ago the thought of Dunne in the heart of our defence would send shivers up our spine. Now he's an unmovable rock for Man City & Ireland. There's enough raw potential in McShane to be optimistic.

[drummerboy]

I too think he will improve. Still very young. He has the potential to become another Kevin Moran, who didn't play top class football until he was 23. He lacked pace but soon learnt how to make up for his shortcomings to become a top class centre back for club and country.

[ifk101]

He will get better with experience - no doubt. However as already pointed out, he was caught wrong side of the attacker prior to the penalty decision. That's inexcusable IMO - especially when we are protecting a lead with only a few minutes to go in the match.

[the doc]

He turned away from one shot during the game so there goes that argument for him.

He really went down in my estimation yesterday. He had a poor game.

And the penalty he gave away was criminal. And I don't want to hear this "He is learning" rubbish. An under 16 schoolboy player wouldn't be thick enough to drag a player to the ground on the edge of the box.

All he had to do was get goalside of the player. He was never going to put one past Given from there anyway.

Very poor player and to think the powers that be are selecting him and the likes of Alex Bruce.......we are doomed!

[paul_oshea]

It is obvious that he would put his head on the line for Ireland.

The more games he plays the more I am being proven right. I would agree with carloz its a double edged sword, because of the attitude and determination he has he often gets caught out cos he uses less of his head and more brawn. If only the other Irish players had half the application and determination he had then we would be way better off. But he definitely appears to be getting "worse" rather than better i.e. more things happening and getting noticed with every game.......

Sometimes as well his positional sense was attrocious and he was in places i would expect to see a winger or attacking midfielder, he needs to realise that even if the players in front of him cant do, he cant be going up trying to do it for them.....hopefully its just the same as Dunne was when he was younger i.e. inexperience and he will eradicate this from his game.


All he had to do was get goalside of the player. He was never going to put one past Given from there anyway.

Ya, just like with koller. But there will be the usual crowd on here getting blinded by "objectivity" ;)

[eirebhoy]

Also, we forget how young he is for a centre half... The Micah Richards of this world really are the exception.
I doubt Richards would impress beside John O'Shea either tbh. :)

[John83]

I doubt Richards would impress beside John O'Shea either tbh. :)
I think this was a big factor. I'd expect Dunne to organise the defence far better than O'Shea. Expect a better performance from McShane next time he plays with Dunne.

[tetsujin1979]

Games with McShane - O'Shea at centre half:
Czech Republic (H) 1-1
Wales (A) 2-2

Games with McShane - Dunne at centre half:
San Marino (H) 5-0
Wales (H) 1-0
Slovakia (H) 1-0
Slovakia (A) 2-2
Czech Republic (A) 0-1

Hard to read anything from so few games, but it does look that we are less likely to concede with Dunne - McShane than O'Shea - McShane

[irishfan86]

I rate McShane very highly, but even if you think he's an average centre-half by EPL standards (which I think is as low as you could rate him), he's still one of our best options at that position.

Who would you rather have in there?
-Andy O'Brien who I think is the epitome of average central defenders (should definitely be in the squad though)
-Joey O'Brien: why the **** was he playing centre-half for us against Germany?
-Darren O'Dea: a good prospect but hasn't broken into the Celtic first team.
-John O'Shea: has the physical attributes for the position but not the brain/guts. Also not playing there for his club.
-Alex Bruce: Championship level centre-half, still young and could improve. Possible for the future but not yet.
-Paddy McCarthy: Championship level centre-half, was captain of his old club. Tons of ability and hard as nails, but gives away a lot of fouls and gets a lot of cards. Hopefully will smarten up with time.

When you look at that group of centre-halfs, McShane for me is at least the best of a bad bunch. O'Dea, McCarthy, and Bruce could still make the grade later on, but as far as current contenders McShane is pretty clear first choice for me alongside Dunne.

[as_i_say]

good post IF86. I'm really hopeful for O'dea. he had a fair amount of games last season but dont know why it hasnt happened this time. Mcshane is the best we have right now to partner dunne but i would welcome andy obrien back for another go. however himself and joey are part of one of the worst defenses in the premier league.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Games with McShane - O'Shea at centre half:
Czech Republic (H) 1-1
Wales (A) 2-2

Games with McShane - Dunne at centre half:
San Marino (H) 5-0
Wales (H) 1-0
Slovakia (H) 1-0
Slovakia (A) 2-2
Czech Republic (A) 0-1

Hard to read anything from so few games, but it does look that we are less likely to concede with Dunne - McShane than O'Shea - McShane
What about Dunne - O'Shea? All I can think of is the Denmark game.

[tetsujin1979]

What about Dunne - O'Shea? All I can think of is the Denmark game.
I'd say they are few and far between alright, I only checked McShane's history on soccerscene.ie because he's played relatively few games compared to Dunne or O'Shea, don't really have the time to go through both those players' history

[eirebhoy]

While McShane looks really comfortable beside Dunne, I also think Dunne looks most comfortable beside McShane.

[Stuttgart88]

Dunne alongside O'Shea or a fit Andy O'Brien for me. If McShane was the subject of a Dutch beer comercial you'd have a bloke shouting "Schtop! What's the rush?"

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.

I actually wrote here after the game in Germany that at least our CB partnership looks good, as did the whole back 5 that day I thought. If O'Brien starts regularly for Bolton I think he's shades it for me. If he's injured and McShane has to play then fine, he's handy back-up. PO'S has called it correctly as far as I'm concerned, and Brian Kerr wrote the same at the weekend.

[Ireland4ever]

I think whats most important is that Dunne stays injury free, without him we are foocked!

[tetsujin1979]

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.
Don't remember Dunne and O'Brien playing very often under Kerr, it was Cunningham and O'Brien more often than not. Dunne was a squad member, but never a regular starter for Kerr. He spent about 6 years in the senior squad under Kerr and McCarthy before becoming a regular starter, and eventual "key player".
I think McShane is suffering by comparison. Irish centre halves playing regularly at the top level are thin on the ground at the moment, so he's been thrust right into the senior picture, instead of being brought through gradually (like Dunne. and O'Brien before him were) and because he's not measuring up to what Dunne is doing now, instead of comparing him to what Dunne was doing at the same age, suffering massive amounts of criticism.
For one, I still have faith that he will be a top player in future.

[Stuttgart88]

it was Cunningham and O'Brien more often than not.
I think you're right actually. Either way, O'Brien always did well enough.

How many different CB pairings did we field this campaign? It'd be nice we we arrive at one good pairing and they both stayed fit. McShane is only a third of the way through his first season in the so called top flight. It's a big ask to expect him to be up to international standard just yet.

[paul_oshea]

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.

[John83]

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.
I wish I could remember the last time Kilbane made an assist of the quality of Hunt's on Saturday.

[paul_oshea]

I wish I could remember the last time Kilbane made an assist of the quality of Hunt's on Saturday.

exactly. but he did, or at least planted it on someones head.

[tetsujin1979]

How many different CB pairings did we field this campaign?
Germany (A) Dunne - Andy O'Brien
Cyprus (A) Dunne - Andy O'Brien
Czech (H) O'Shea - McShane
San Marino (H) Dunne - McShane
San Marino (A) Dunne - O'Shea
Wales (H) Dunne - McShane
Slovakia (H) Dunne - McShane
Slovakia (A) Dunne - McShane
Czech (A) Dunne - McShane
Germany (H) McShane - Joey O'Brien
Cyprus (H) O'Shea - McShane
Wales (A) O'Shea - McShane

So 5 different combinations, but we didn't settle on a settled starting pair until half way through the campaign


Combination Times W D L
1. Dunne - McShane 5 3 1 1
2. O'Shea - McShane 3 0 3 0
3. Dunne - A O'Brien 2 0 0 2
4. Dunne - O'Shea 1 1 0 0
5. McShane - J O'Brien 1 0 1 0

[the doc]

I rate McShane very highly, but even if you think he's an average centre-half by EPL standards (which I think is as low as you could rate him), he's still one of our best options at that position.

Who would you rather have in there?
-Andy O'Brien who I think is the epitome of average central defenders (should definitely be in the squad though)
-Joey O'Brien: why the **** was he playing centre-half for us against Germany?
-Darren O'Dea: a good prospect but hasn't broken into the Celtic first team.
-John O'Shea: has the physical attributes for the position but not the brain/guts. Also not playing there for his club.
-Alex Bruce: Championship level centre-half, still young and could improve. Possible for the future but not yet.
-Paddy McCarthy: Championship level centre-half, was captain of his old club. Tons of ability and hard as nails, but gives away a lot of fouls and gets a lot of cards. Hopefully will smarten up with time.

When you look at that group of centre-halfs, McShane for me is at least the best of a bad bunch. O'Dea, McCarthy, and Bruce could still make the grade later on, but as far as current contenders McShane is pretty clear first choice for me alongside Dunne.

What about Sean St Ledger at Preston? tipped for a move to the Premiership soon

Good on the ball, good in the air, reads the game well, has pace and good positional awareness, can play at RB,CB,Sweeper,LB and the holding role in midfield.

Can't undertstand why he's not in the frame,as I know Kerr and Given were pushing for him to play for the U21's when he was at Peterborough and did feature in some of the senior squads under Stan after his good performances at Preston.

Was earmarked to start the last B game and in the USA only for injury to rule him out and was also close to a start for the senior team in Cyprus.

[eirebhoy]

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.
The only thing I've changed my mind on is that McShane is one of the few young players out there that doesn't need an organiser to get the best out of him. I was definitely wrong on that one. I'm sure he's learning loads with every game though and I still think he'll go on to be an excellent player.

I'm making excuses here but we really can't judge him too much playing beside O'Shea. Andy O'Brien was superb in pretty much every game beside Cunningham. Against Holland he partnered O'Shea and they were completely lost. I believe if McShane was partnering a top class organiser throughout this campaign he'd be getting rave reviews.

[irishfan86]

What about Sean St Ledger at Preston? tipped for a move to the Premiership soon.

It wasn't a deliberate exclusion, he just slipped my mind.

[Qwerty]

Dunne alongside O'Shea or a fit Andy O'Brien for me. If McShane was the subject of a Dutch beer comercial you'd have a bloke shouting "Schtop! What's the rush?"

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.

I actually wrote here after the game in Germany that at least our CB partnership looks good, as did the whole back 5 that day I thought. If O'Brien starts regularly for Bolton I think he's shades it for me. If he's injured and McShane has to play then fine, he's handy back-up. PO'S has called it correctly as far as I'm concerned, and Brian Kerr wrote the same at the weekend.

I'm with you, and further in O'Brien's defense he wasn't close to first team football at Portsmouth when he played those games for Ireland. It's very tough to come from reserve football in a situation where you know the manager isn't interested in playing you to come in and play well in crucial international games.

[rambler14]

He needs to learn some rules of defending:
1. STAY ON YOUR FEET
2. STAY GOAL SIDE
3. DON'T GRAB ONTO PEOPLE NEAR THE BOX
4. IF THERE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE GOAL.... LEAVE THEM RUN AWAY FROM THE GOAL
5. DON'T FOUL EVERY TIME YOU GO FOR THE BALL

[paul_oshea]

I'm making excuses here but we really can't judge him too much playing beside O'Shea. Andy O'Brien was superb in pretty much every game beside Cunningham. Against Holland he partnered O'Shea and they were completely lost. I believe if McShane was partnering a top class organiser throughout this campaign he'd be getting rave reviews.

Ya you could well be right on this, id agree. But think of Phil Babb here, he was fine beside McGrath cos McGrath made him look fine.

[Condex]

Looks like McShane is taking up where he left off in Cardiff
We'll have to look elsewhere for a defensive partner for Dunne.. :(


61 mins: Goal flash Everton 4 Sunderland 1 Everton are gifted a goal. McShane misses a long punt forward by Yobo and slips as he tries to recover. It allows Cahill to go clean through and slot a shot past Gordon. It is a long way back for Sunderland now.

57 mins: Yakubu turns McShane and shoots wide from 22 yards.

[Condex]

It get worse..

78 mins: Goal flash Everton 6 Sunderland 1 Oh dear. Substitute Johnson races on to Neville's hopeful ball forward, outpaces McShane and slots a shot past Gordon.