Paul McShane

[Charlie Darwin]

Why wouldn't we? He was critical in Hull's promotion, the fans and the manager love him. Of course we will see him in the top flight next year. And he's a good player, in spite of what Eamon Dunphy has told most people here to say.

[paul_oshea]

I have seen Eamon Dunphy maybe once in 5 years CD! I judge solely on what I see.

And if you think a good defence is built on foundations that include McShane and Ward then you might start on the right path by actually listening to Dunphy!

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't have either of them in my team but they're decent players.

[IsMiseSean]

Think back to the Foley/McShane selection for the Euros.
McShane went on to be key in Hull's successful promotion push while Foley couldn't get into a Wolves team that got relegated to League 1. Maybe just maybe Trap was right...

[Stuttgart88]

Fair point that.

[Irwin3]

Think back to the Foley/McShane selection for the Euros.
McShane went on to be key in Hull's successful promotion push while Foley couldn't get into a Wolves team that got relegated to League 1. Maybe just maybe Trap was right...

Selective memory? In a second consecutive injury-ravaged season Foley has still started more games than McShane.

[Charlie Darwin]

According to ESPN, Foley's started 25 to McShane's 23, however both have been affected by injury this season. You could look at the trend though and say that McShane fought his way into a side challenging for the title while Foley was in and out of a team that was never far from the relegation zone.

[Irwin3]

According to ESPN, Foley's started 25 to McShane's 23, however both have been affected by injury this season. You could look at the trend though and say that McShane fought his way into a side challenging for the title while Foley was in and out of a team that was never far from the relegation zone.

So I was correct. How has he fought his way into the side though? He's a back up for them usually. He was playing left back in the last game! Fair play to McShane and to be honest if I was looking for a championship-level defender going forward I'd take McShane over Foley at the moment. But that statement from JGKyne was balls.

[Charlie Darwin]

JKyne's statement was false but only just.

McShane isn't a back-up. He's started every game he's been fit for since he won his place in the starting line-up before Christmas.

[Irwin3]

Is fact-checking a dying art? We are on the internet, folks!

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/paul-mcshane/leistungsdaten/spieler_24636.html#GB2

Started 1/12 then his next league start was 19/1 after being on the bench for 5 in a row. 9 league starts this year including most recently at left-back! Sounds like a squad player to me, his injuries being acknowledged in my judgement of his season from afar.

[Charlie Darwin]

If you look at all the games where he's "not in the club's line-up" you'll see he was taken off injured in the previous game each time. The run of games where he was on the bench was during a run where they conceded one goal in five games, so it's not hard to see why he was left out. Apart from those games, he's started almost every game he's been fit for.

I don't know if LB for the final game is right, but so what if he was moved around to accommodate a different formation? Your gripes are becoming increasingly desperate.

[Irwin3]

If you look at all the games where he's "not in the club's line-up" you'll see he was taken off injured in the previous game each time. The run of games where he was on the bench was during a run where they conceded one goal in five games, so it's not hard to see why he was left out. Apart from those games, he's started almost every game he's been fit for.

Good diversionary tactic bringing up something that I've never disputed and acting like a have? See my 'injuries being acknowledged' remark.

The dataset is very small. Following on from being on the bench 5 times in a row. It goes:
Start 5
Miss 2
Bench 2
Start 2
Miss 4
Bench 2
Start 2

Maybe do some fact-checking before posting next time if you don't like someone correcting your blatant errors? You stated he started every game since he won his place back before Christmas. This was blatantly false.


I don't know if LB for the final game is right, but so what if he was moved around to accommodate a different formation? Your gripes are becoming increasingly desperate.

What gripes. This is reality. Backs up my squad player assessment with facts. But you apparently have a problem with those.

[Charlie Darwin]

Good diversionary tactic bringing up something that I've never disputed and acting like a have? See my 'injuries being acknowledged' remark.

The dataset is very small. Following on from being on the bench 5 times in a row. It goes:
Start 5
Miss 2
Bench 2
Start 2
Miss 4
Bench 2
Start 2
You disputed it when you said he was a squad player. A squad player doesn't start 2/3 of the games he's fit for.


Maybe do some fact-checking before posting next time if you don't like someone correcting your blatant errors? You stated he started every game since he won his place back before Christmas. This was blatantly false.
I admit I was wrong on that, but I think Bruce had good reason to stick with a virtually flawless defence. As soon as cracks appeared, he was back in the team and didn't lose his place until he sustained another injury.


What gripes. This is reality. Backs up my squad player assessment with facts. But you apparently have a problem with those.
But I'm telling you your stats don't back up what you said. He was in the squad every time was fit and he started the vast majority of those games, the only exceptions being when he was working his way back from injured. Your link clearly indicates that he wasn't dropped once all season.

[Irwin3]

You disputed it when you said he was a squad player. A squad player doesn't start 2/3 of the games he's fit for.

He does if other players are injured/suspended.


I admit I was wrong on that, but I think Bruce had good reason to stick with a virtually flawless defence. As soon as cracks appeared, he was back in the team and didn't lose his place until he sustained another injury.

Fair enough. He did start 5 in a row till injury.


But I'm telling you your stats don't back up what you said. He was in the squad every time was fit and he started the vast majority of those games, the only exceptions being when he was working his way back from injured. Your link clearly indicates that he wasn't dropped once all season.

I disagree. When you take the season as a whole you can see that he started out on the bench and didn't start a game until October. This is then broken by injury, comes back, injury again, another long spell on the bench, back in, injury, bench, back in, injury, bench, back in.

Like I say I'm judging from afar but I see squad player with injuries. Also, I don't know Hull well enough to know who else was unavailable which would see a squad player get some of those starts. It's possible you're right and that he became a first choice since January but the evidence before that and being eased in from the bench make me skeptical.

[Charlie Darwin]

He does if other players are injured/suspended.
Look at the games in which he did start then. There were always other defenders on the bench. In one particular game - a win over Ipswich (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/hull-city-ipswich-town/index/spielbericht_2225969.html) - both Rosenior and Faye were withdrawn with McShane left on the field. In general, if anybody was withdrawn it was Bruce. That isn't indicative of a squad player - it's indicative of a player who is there to play 90 minutes consistently. Again, if you actually examine the stats, he plays 90 minutes every time he is fit to finish the game.


I disagree. When you take the season as a whole you can see that he started out on the bench and didn't start a game until October. This is then broken by injury, comes back, injury again, another long spell on the bench, back in, injury, bench, back in, injury, bench, back in.

Like I say I'm judging from afar but I see squad player with injuries. Also, I don't know Hull well enough to know who else was unavailable which would see a squad player get some of those starts. It's possible you're right and that he became a first choice since January but the evidence before that and being eased in from the bench make me skeptical.
I am 100% in agreement that he wasn't first choice until October and that was almost certainly based on previous poor form. After that, he established himself in the team and was picked when fit, except when he had gotten injured and the defence had been virtually flawless in his absence. I think you are interpreting the stats superficially but when you actually delve into the details, you'll see that McShane has been a first choice player for the majority of the season when fit.

I still wouldn't have him in the Ireland team barring an emergency.

[Irwin3]

Ok you are saying he was first choice apart from the 8 games at the start of the season, the 5 games on the trot in dec/jan, and the 4 games when coming back from injuries. Plus the 9 games missed through injury, naturally. Who isn't first choice then? Chester, Bruce, Faye all started more games than him.

Everyone fit I don't think he starts for them.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok you are saying he was first choice apart from the 8 games at the start of the season, the 5 games on the trot in dec/jan, and the 4 games when coming back from injuries. Plus the 9 games missed through injury, naturally. Who isn't first choice then? Chester, Bruce, Faye all started more games than him.

Everyone fit I don't think he starts for them.
But your own link shows you that everybody being fit he does start for them, that one period when they were flawless in defence aside.

[SkStu]

Stop. Please stop.

[Irwin3]

But your own link shows you that everybody being fit he does start for them, that one period when they were flawless in defence aside.

How do you come to that conclusion? Bruce and Faye have missed spells out injured. Faye was missing from 19/1 and didn't come back into the team until 30/3. Who came in again on 19/1? Who isn't first choice I ask you? Bruce, Faye, Chester have started more games. Hobbs has also started 20 games like McShane.

[paul_oshea]

Don't stop.

Keep going. Don't listen to them.

[IsMiseSean]

So I was correct. How has he fought his way into the side though? He's a back up for them usually. He was playing left back in the last game! Fair play to McShane and to be honest if I was looking for a championship-level defender going forward I'd take McShane over Foley at the moment. But that statement from JGKyne was balls.

I was basing my comments on January onwards when McShane was named Hull's POTM but then got injured before the WCQ's in March and was basically ruled out for the season but returned for Hull's run in and got back into the team. McShane was never been a back up and has played all across the back 4 for Hull this season but mainly as a left sided CB in a back 3. If he didn't get injured in March he would have played regularly in Hull's run in.
Whereas Foley lost he's place to Matt Doherty in the Wolves team in the last few months. I didn't even know Foley was suffering from injuries throughout the season. Any time I looked up Wolves results Foley was listed as a sub with Doherty playing RB.

But yeah I probably should have looked up the stats... ;)
But one thing I'm sure off McShane will be playing PL next season and Foley will more than likely be playing in L1

[IsMiseSean]

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts (https://twitter.com/McShaneFacts)

[tricky_colour]

McShane would be a great first buy for Moyes, he would not have to spend too much money and
assuming he does as a well as expect he could make a tidy profit on him.

He is just the sort or player Man U need to drive them forward in the new era.

[tetsujin1979]

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts (https://twitter.com/McShaneFacts)
from the brain surgeons who run balls.ie

[Junior]

McShane would be a great first buy for Moyes, he would not have to spend too much money and
assuming he does as a well as expect he could make a tidy profit on him.

He is just the sort or player Man U need to drive them forward in the new era.


No. You should never go back, it will only end in tears.

[Charlie Darwin]

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts (https://twitter.com/McShaneFacts)
That's brilliant.

[Irwin3]

I was basing my comments on January onwards when McShane was named Hull's POTM but then got injured before the WCQ's in March and was basically ruled out for the season but returned for Hull's run in and got back into the team. McShane was never been a back up and has played all across the back 4 for Hull this season but mainly as a left sided CB in a back 3. If he didn't get injured in March he would have played regularly in Hull's run in.
Whereas Foley lost he's place to Matt Doherty in the Wolves team in the last few months. I didn't even know Foley was suffering from injuries throughout the season. Any time I looked up Wolves results Foley was listed as a sub with Doherty playing RB.

But yeah I probably should have looked up the stats... ;)
But one thing I'm sure off McShane will be playing PL next season and Foley will more than likely be playing in L1

Foley was injured at the end of last season. Then the Euro's debacle and he was injured again at the start of this season. I read a few months back that he was taking injections and couldn't train for a couple of days after each one. Last start for Wolves was 19/2. 2 late sub appearances and 5 unused appearances since then. Not looking good for the lad at the moment.

P.S. Let's see how many games he plays in the PL. He's just 6 short of Foley's PL appearances so maybe he'll overtake this next season.

[Drumcondra 69er]

From The Examiner on Tuesday, not a bad read. Much as I've never particularly rated him, some of the abuse is ridiculous.

KIERAN SHANNON: Leave off the begrudgery and salute McShane

Tuesday, May 07, 2013
By Kieran Shannon

He still gets blamed for Paris nearly as much as Thierry Henry, just because Roy Keane once said he should never have let that ball bounce in the penalty area.
They tried to take the moment away from him. When Paul McShane notched the goal that sent Hull City back to the Premier League, Twitter lit up with the musings of the miserly, in both spirit and mind.

“Commiserations to Hull City on getting relegated next season,” remarked one twit. “Paul McShane in the Premier League? You’re having a laugh.”

A Tyrone Gaelic footballer who has done nothing in sport compared to some of his more illustrious team-mates and indeed McShane himself joined in on the beating. “Surely Paul McShane will not be on match of the day (sic) next season?”
But then that player was pretty much saying what multitudes were saying on the same network. In the tweet of another twit, “It will be a sad day if Paul McShane is playing in the Premier League.” Anyone with a real grasp of and love for sport could only think the opposite. It’s a joyous day when Paul McShane is back in the Premier League because he personifies so much of what makes it so life affirming.

McShane nearly quit football a couple of years ago. He was at his seventh club in eight years, wasn’t getting a game, not even a hello from his club manager. “I was really contemplating it,” he’d tell reporters last weekend, “just getting in my car, getting on the boat and going back to Ireland because it was just wall after wall that I kept hitting.”

Even there he wouldn’t have much respite. In this country he’s become a public punch-bag.

Someone went to the bother of putting up on YouTube a nine-minute nightmare reel of the defender with the intentionally-ironic title ‘McShane: The God of this era’.

Another website deemed him the worst player to ever play for Ireland. A so-called comedian tweeted that one service was “as unreliable as Paul McShane”.

It’s an increasingly-common phenomenon of Irish life and sport. If you want to gain a cheap laugh, have a pop at a footballer playing in England. Paul Green — ha, ha, ha. Conor Sammon — ha, ha, ha. And Paul McShane — ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! To this day he still gets blamed for Paris nearly as much as Thierry Henry, just because Roy Keane once said he should never have let that ball bounce in the penalty area.

But as McShane has pointed out, someone as skilful as Henry had to handle that ball to keep it in play. If McShane had tried to get a boot or head to it, people would have wondered why didn’t he just let it go out.

People who know the game would know that. But most people don’t. They think professional footballers have it easy, that they’re so much softer than their rugby-playing counterparts who don’t make a fraction of the money.

There’s a reason that rugby players don’t make a fraction of the money soccer players in the Premier League and Championship do. Only a fraction of people play rugby compared to soccer. For any player to secure a professional contract in his 20s with a Premier League or Championship club in England is harder to do than secure a place on the British and Irish Lions. Paul McShane is in a higher percentile of football players worldwide than Donncha O’Callaghan is in rugby. Yet compare how one has been lionised while the other has been ridiculed.

Contrary to the stereotype, professional football is not a soft, cushy business. As McShane once observed, “It’s not a nice industry. It’s a horrible business.”

And it’s a hard-nosed one. To win that next contract, to stay in the game, to survive, you have to be talented, thick-skinned, resilient.

Most of us at some stage in our lives dreamed of playing professional football, went to school imagining ourselves being another Best, Dalglish, Cantona, Rooney, whatever generation we were, the Match of the Day theme-track accompanying our stepovers and piledrivers along the way.

But only an elite, select few ever make it over there. Like Paul McShane from Greystones, County Wicklow. Think of how exceptional he must have been to be signed Manchester United, to play on their FA Youth Cup winning team. To be selected for Ireland at 20 years of age when his performance against the Czech Republic had the scribes hailing him as another Kevin Moran.

As the years have shown, McShane has proved to be no Kevin Moran. He’s been a journeyman pro. But there’s no shame in that and that journey has now taken the man back to the Premier League. Though his contract expires in the next few days, Steve Bruce has already said McShane is the first player he’ll be offering a new contract.

“He’s had some stick and a difficult couple of years,” said Bruce, “but he never gave up and has a big heart.”

“I still have that hunger and drive,” McShane himself said last year.

” I’m just an honest lad.”

Scorn not his honesty. Instead rejoice that he’ll be back on Match of the Day, the show we all wanted to be on but just weren’t as good as him.

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't know Roy Keane said that about Paris, but I still apportion some of the blame to McShane :)

Also, I think the reason footballers get paid more than rugby players is mainly because satellite TV pays vastly more for football content than rugby content, and just simply because more people pay to watch it.

But still, the tone of the article is bang-on. I like to think that any criticism I've directed at McShane (and Sammon more recently) has been fair and I've also given credit where it's due - he was superb versus Italy in Liege and played very well just before the Euros, against Bosnia I think.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I didn't know Roy Keane said that about Paris, but I still apportion some of the blame to McShane :)

Also, I think the reason footballers get paid more than rugby players is mainly because satellite TV pays vastly more for football content than rugby content, and just simply because more people pay to watch it.

But still, the tone of the article is bang-on. I like to think that any criticism I've directed at McShane (and Sammon more recently) has been fair and I've also given credit where it's due - he was superb versus Italy in Liege and played very well just before the Euros, against Bosnia I think.

Strongly disagree about Paris, Stutts. I could tell that ball was going out for a goal kick from the other end of the ground, it took 2 handballs from Henry to keep it in. Had McShane put it out for a corner and France had scored from it he'd have been crucified for giving a needless set piece away by the same people who give him stick for not playing the ball and probably by more again. The original ball into the box was overhit and would have been harmless without an intervention that couldn't be predicted and that 99% of officials would see.

I think McShane has various issues with his game that would prevent me playing him but the comments Keane made that a lot of people (present company excluded!) took their lead from were a joke.

[ifk101]

The ball bounced inside our 6 yard box so it wasn't overhit. A ball bouncing in the six yard box within a crowded penalty area is never harmless. McShane tried to let the ball bounce out of play but he shouldn't have done so as he had lost sight of Henry. I'd agree he should take part of the blame, but the ball in was something Richard Dunne could have dealt better with and Liam Lawerence looked lost as to what to do there as well.

[jbyrne]

The ball bounced inside our 6 yard box so it wasn't overhit. A ball bouncing in the six yard box within a crowded penalty area is never harmless. McShane tried to let the ball bounce out of play but he shouldn't have done so as he had lost sight of Henry. I'd agree he should take part of the blame, but the ball in was something Richard Dunne could have dealt better with and Liam Lawerence looked lost as to what to do there as well.

also henry was offside from the free kick and was behind mcshane as a result

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, fair enough D69er and it's not something I have a strong opinion on - it was blatant handball that was the main problem after all. That said, it's playing with fire to allow a guy like Henry in behind you and my vague recollection is that he could have taken command and just "got rid".

The ball should never have come that far though, I think Dunne missed the flight of it under (unfair?) pressure from Squilacchi. On that basis, I'm not sure it was that overhit - it should / could have been met earlier, no?

I thought he was all at sea from the moment he came on in pace of O'Shea. His first involvement was a bad foul after he got caught in two minds whether to go in for a 50/50, he hesitated then committed and took the guy out.

This is probably a bit unfair, but so many images of goals conceded involve McShane just being on the coattails of the scorer (or provider) either chasing back or covering the line. That suggests to me that either he's very committed to covering for others' errors (as was the definitely case last weekend against Cardiff) or he's desperately trying to rectify his own bad positioning.

Good enough player, very committed and generally worthy of a squad place - there's nothing not to like about the guy and fair play to him.

(edit - sorry, didn't see IFK's post above, I thought the last post was D69ers on the previous page).

[Drumcondra 69er]

Yeah, fair enough D69er and it's not something I have a strong opinion on - it was blatant handball that was the main problem after all. That said, it's playing with fire to allow a guy like Henry in behind you and my vague recollection is that he could have taken command and just "got rid".

The ball should never have come that far though, I think Dunne missed the flight of it under (unfair?) pressure from Squilacchi. On that basis, I'm not sure it was that overhit - it should / could have been met earlier, no?

I thought he was all at sea from the moment he came on in pace of O'Shea. His first involvement was a bad foul after he got caught in two minds whether to go in for a 50/50, he hesitated then committed and took the guy out.

This is probably a bit unfair, but so many images of goals conceded involve McShane just being on the coattails of the scorer (or provider) either chasing back or covering the line. That suggests to me that either he's very committed to covering for others' errors (as was the definitely case last weekend against Cardiff) or he's desperately trying to rectify his own bad positioning.

Good enough player, very committed and generally worthy of a squad place - there's nothing not to like about the guy and fair play to him.

(edit - sorry, didn't see IFK's post above, I thought the last post was D69ers on the previous page).


The ball bounced inside our 6 yard box so it wasn't overhit. A ball bouncing in the six yard box within a crowded penalty area is never harmless. McShane tried to let the ball bounce out of play but he shouldn't have done so as he had lost sight of Henry. I'd agree he should take part of the blame, but the ball in was something Richard Dunne could have dealt better with and Liam Lawerence looked lost as to what to do there as well.

I'd give that he could have got himself in a better position between Henry and the ball but it's a,nonsense to say any ball bouncing in the 6 yard box is dangerous, a ball that's played so quick that's it's clearly bouncing out of play unless a player plays basketball or GAA with it is as harmless as it gets. Any semi competent official does his job and no one would have given McShane's positioning or decision making a second thought.

[Fixer82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxw1-Id91lQ

Watch this video.
You'll see McShane walking like a crab as the ball drops.
Any decent defender who's switched on and sharp would anticipate that Dunne mightn't get to it (he's definitely being impeded) and be ready for it dropping to him.

[tricky_colour]

Bottom line is the goal should have been disallowed so a bit harsh to blame Shane for the refs/lines-mans mistake.
Debatable if he dealt with it well but fact is Henry had to cheat to keep the ball in so from that point of view
Shane dealt with it well. Maybe he could have cleared it but equally he could have put it in his own goal or knocked it
across the front of the goal.
He may well have judged it was impossible for Henry to legally keep the ball in, which the evidence seems to show is the case.
Equally he may have had no idea what was going on, but again bottom line is the goal should not have been allowed.
Bit harsh to vilify him over it when the ref, linesman and Henry are the real villains here.

Anyway best of luck to him in the premiership, he will probably, need it, I am sure his critics are foaming at
the mouth ready to pounce on any mistake!! :)

[Drumcondra 69er]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxw1-Id91lQ

Watch this video.
You'll see McShane walking like a crab as the ball drops.
Any decent defender who's switched on and sharp would anticipate that Dunne mightn't get to it (he's definitely being impeded) and be ready for it dropping to him.

I've seen the goal hundreds of times at this stage. I've already said this positioning was poor. But what would you have wanted him to do with the ball, put it out for a corner and cede possession? The ball was clearly going out of play, the correct decision was to let it go out of play rather than give away a needless set piece which would have put us under pressure again. Henry doesn't handle the ball twice then nobody notices McShane's positioning.

[Junior]

McShane had poor positioning, he was completely unaware of the presence of Henry which is where the fault in his play was. Henry had to foul the ball to keep it in play yes but it was such a fine line, it was a matter of millimetres and he could have controlled it legitimately. It certainly wasnt clearly 'an overhit pass'. We were all at the other end of the ground and my heart was in my mouth when the ball went in. The ball needed to be cleared and if that had resulted in a corner so be it, that happens numerous times throughout a game when there is danger to be dealt with. To say that McShane would have been crucified for giving away the corner I think is stretching it a bit (though no doubt some muppets would of course look to criticise him for anything he does).

Anyway, there are plenty of other examples of McShanes limitations, we dont need to focus on this one, where as has already been stated the real culprits were the cheat (Henry) and the imbiciles officiating.

Good luck to him in the EPL - I hope he gets his chance and makes a fist of it, there is certainly no doubting his strong mental atrributes thats for sure and the Hull boss has put faith in him, he has experience at this level - Hopefully his confidence is high.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sadly McShane has been and probably always will be poor for Ireland. Even Kilbane/Ward were/are better...

And he's a competent Championship player at best, no matter how hard he tries. Be amazed if he's still at Hull this time next year, in the more amazing event of them staying up.

[Drumcondra 69er]

McShane had poor positioning, he was completely unaware of the presence of Henry which is where the fault in his play was. Henry had to foul the ball to keep it in play yes but it was such a fine line, it was a matter of millimetres and he could have controlled it legitimately. It certainly wasnt clearly 'an overhit pass'. We were all at the other end of the ground and my heart was in my mouth when the ball went in. The ball needed to be cleared and if that had resulted in a corner so be it, that happens numerous times throughout a game when there is danger to be dealt with. To say that McShane would have been crucified for giving away the corner I think is stretching it a bit (though no doubt some muppets would of course look to criticise him for anything he does).

Anyway, there are plenty of other examples of McShanes limitations, we dont need to focus on this one, where as has already been stated the real culprits were the cheat (Henry) and the imbiciles officiating.

Good luck to him in the EPL - I hope he gets his chance and makes a fist of it, there is certainly no doubting his strong mental atrributes thats for sure and the Hull boss has put faith in him, he has experience at this level - Hopefully his confidence is high.

I don't disagree with the thurst of your post but I'm not having the bit in bold. It was in it's boll1x a matter of millimetres, there was absolutely no way he was even close to controlling that legitimately, he had to handle it once to keep it in play on the touchline and a second time to play it down to his foot, there's no way within the laws of physics that he could have kept that ball in legally once it bounced off the surface, to be in a position where he could have he'd have had to have been offside. I couldn't work out how he'd done it until I started getting texts abiut it at the time, once that ball went into the area and bounced where it did I was confident it was going out.

It's his positional sense that's his biggest weakness, I've lost count of the times I've seen him get caught under the ball. Can't fault his heart and his self belief though, the amount of stick he gets is embarrassing tbh.

[Junior]

If you watch that youtube clip again fropm around 0:35 (I know you've seen it a million times but just once or twice more). Henry could have perhaps stuck out his right foot and controlled it (or played it first time) on the hop, or even perhaps raised his left thigh/knee and caught it on the upward bounce - both difficult enough to do but a man of Henrys undoubted quality could possibly have done it - The ball in to the box was certainly a danger.

You couldnt believe it at the time whilst I certainly could and it wasnt until the million texts started to come through that I knew exactly what the players were all complaining about.

But fair enough we can agree to disagree on that point, not sure why we are doing this to ourselves to be honest :o- I think we are pretty much in agreement on McShanes qualities, failings and the ridiculous amount of abuse he receives.

[tricky_colour]

"but a man of Henrys undoubted quality could possibly have done it".

But he didn't do it did he? Why could not a man of Henry's quality do it?
The answer is he was up against a world class defender who only let the ball bounce when Henry coudl not get it.

Thus this what happened:-

Henry waits behind McShane out of sight allowing him to let the ball bounce, had Henry got close enough to
get a foot on the ball McShane woudl have seen him and dealt with ball.

Hence Henry resorts to trickery, hiding out of sight and then using his hands.

First class defending from McShane.

No doubt we will see more of it next year.

[Fixer82]

Rule No.1 in being a defender: Don't let Thierry Henry get in behind you. He'll definitely score (In GAA or soccer)

[tricky_colour]

Rule No.1 in being a defender: Don't let Thierry Henry get in behind you. He'll definitely score (In GAA or soccer)

But the fact is Henry had to cheat to score, which exonerates McShane from any blame IMO.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the pudding in this case was ball which was handled by Henry.

McShane did enough to prevent Henry legally getting the ball, I thought his position could have been better but
the fact is he did enough.

Still hate to watch it to this day though.

[Fixer82]

But the fact is Henry had to cheat to score, which exonerates McShane from any blame IMO.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the pudding in this case was ball which was handled by Henry.

McShane did enough to prevent Henry legally getting the ball, I thought his position could have been better but
the fact is he did enough.

Still hate to watch it to this day though.

Never take a chance on letting it go out if a striker of that quality is behind you. it was a bad decision. He should have cleared it. Henry could have kept it in with his knee. How does McShane know what Henry's body position is when he's behind him?
Just clear the ball, get it out, corner throw-in, whatever. Don't let it bounce. This is Under-12s stuff.

Now as for overhit balls, see McGeady with the last free kick for Ireland in that same game

[peadar1987]

He had to make a choice, what was more likely, Henry pulling off something pretty much superhuman, or else giving away a corner. You can bet that if he'd given away a corner and France had scored, everyone's favourite moany thug from Cork would have been giving out about that as well.

[SkStu]

Fixer, youre being ridiculously harsh on McShane. And thats coming from someone who is ridiculously harsh on McShane.

[Charlie Darwin]

Surely Given is more culpable as he had a full view of the unfolding situation. The fact is that footballers make calls like this all the time during games - it was completely reasonable for McShane and Given to assume a wildly overhit ball was going to go out of play and that Henry was not going to pull off a manoeuvre that defied science. As it happened, he just cheated blatantly and somehow got away with it.

[Junior]

Surely Given is more culpable as he had a full view of the unfolding situation. The fact is that footballers make calls like this all the time during games - it was completely reasonable for McShane and Given to assume a wildly overhit ball was going to go out of play and that Henry was not going to pull off a manoeuvre that defied science. As it happened, he just cheated blatantly and somehow got away with it.

Hyperbole horse$hit. It wasnt wildly overhit, it landed smack in the middle of a very dangerous area, given his chance again Henry may have stuck an outstretched right boot on to it and ended up with the same end result.

McShane didnt consider what Henry could or couldnt do because he was completely unaware he was lurking just behind him such was his poor positioning.

[peadar1987]

Just watched the video again (as much as it pains me).

Dunne is pulled over by a French player as he's jumping to head the ball. McShane has about a tenth of a second to react to this. The ball bounces in front of him, with a crowd of onrushing players, while he is facing the goal.

His options are:

-Hoof it across his own goal (suicide)
-Get a boot to it to help it over the endline (very hard to do considering the speed and trajectory of the ball. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that from this situation)
-Hit it with his left foot upfield (Into the crowd of onrushing players, with a good chance of it ricocheting into his own net)
-Control it (He'd be stupid to try and do that in the position he was in)
-Something fancy, like a backheel towards the sideline (Again, not the time to be trying fancy stuff)
-Leave it to go (99% of the time it'll go for a goal kick)
-Hold Henry behind him while the ball goes out (Probably what he should have done, just to be on the safe side)

So maybe he could have done better, but the ball was going out, quickly, at chest height, and rising, almost impossible to control legally. I can't imagine, say, Stephen Kelly or Sledge doing much better. Maybe Carr at the height of his powers.