NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Not Brazil]

:D:rolleyes::p

yeah, i'm a five year old. live with it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/2208857.stm

[cough]

Nowhere in the article does it state that Northern Ireland fans were behind the despicable death threats made to Neil Lennon.

The person (s) behind the death threat are unknown - nobody has been charged and brought to court over the incident.

Your claims are spurious - like me claiming that all ROI must be racist because someone unknown issued threats to black members of Brian Kerr's ROI squad...I'm sure you remember that.

In additional, holding up Neil Lennon as the "ace" in the anti Northern Ireland fan pack no longer cuts it.

Neil Lennon's glowing praise for the changes made at Northeren Ireland international matches makes a mockery of that.

You also state that Linfield FC are "one of the most actively bigotted sides in the world".

The playing staff at Windsor Park, at all levels, are cross community - probably the most "mixed" playing staff in Northern Ireland.

You need to get with the times.

[youngirish]

The tricolour is a 32 county flag whether you like it or not, it was designed before partition and the colours represent both traditions on the island and peace between them as I'm sure you already know.

Amhrán na bhFiann was also written long before partition and also pertained to the 32 counties. Interestingly enough it was originally written in English and only translated in the 1920's. It certainly represents more then the 26 counties and did so since 1912 when it was first published, although it was being sung for a number of years before that across the entire island long before the border had been concocted.

In fairness the date of origin of the flag or the anthem or their initial intentions don't make any difference to who they represent. The Union Jack was initially constructed from a combination of the different flags of the nations of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to represent the union of the kingdoms but it in no way represents myself an Irishman or my nation even though it's intention is (was) to do so. God Save the King similarly has it's roots in 18th century Europe when Ireland was a Kingdom under the control of that same British monarch whom the song adheres to but I would state again that it doesn't represent me or my country to any degree.

[Not Brazil]

I think you'll find it's impossible for anyone from Ireland to be british. They may well be subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but they're not british. Only England, Scotland and Wales make up britain. Hence the 'and' in the full title of the UK.

:confused:

You what?

I am a "British Citizen" - born, bred and lived all my life in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

[lopez]

Irish by birthright.

Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland forms part of the island of Ireland.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

It's not really that complicated.No it's not that complicated. You see Ireland as the region you're from and Britain as your country. Thanks for clearing that up.


...This is by no means the first time FIFA have suspended, or even expelled a Member Association on the grounds of external political interference.
I think you'll find that it concerns interference in the running of association affairs (appointments etc.) not a government taking issue with the right to citizens of a country playing for that country. I'd be intrigued to see if you have any previous cases of an assciation being banned etc. because a government takes up matters with FIFA. Also, how much did the British government ply into Wembley? How much are you looking from them for a grant regarding the upkeep of Windsor Park or a move to a new ground. Also sounds like governmental interference, even if it's of a benevolent kind.

Nice spin, as always...but it's the same old b*llocks really. Any thing of interest on the Madeline McCann case?


If you can't name their names, don't make the point. Why bother making a point if you can't back it up? Saying 'the black bloke who played in Wrexham in 1991 for starters' is not giving us much of a clue.:
Thanks to Réiteoir for naming him as Eric Young. Also Pat Van den Haowe. I presume you're gonna say my argument is not valid as I can't be bothered to look up how his name is spelt. I believe there's a few more


It's got nothing to do with independence or sovreignty. The name of the football team is 'the Republic of Ireland'. That is, to differentiate from Northern Ireland, also an international football team.It's got everything to do with sovereignty. You started banging on about this and that country handing out caps to all and sundry. These countries can still do that if these players live there for more than two years. This rule favours the rich countries with the strong leagues which doesn't count Ireland amongst them. However, these countries (Qatar being the obvious) do not hand out citizenship to the criminals, the peadophiles, the spongers of people living in the territory/country that they have done so to a few gifted footballers. Ireland gives citizenship to everyone born in the O6C regardless of who they are, and the occupying government of the O6C fully accept and agree to that. That's the difference.

And the country is called the Republic of Ireland just as France is called the Republic of France. There's no difference, and until NI gets independence, I can't see the confusion. Only exception is when football is being played, but this has nothing to do with the validity of Ireland to pick its citizens to play for it.

Ah right. You just reminded me of another ridiculous rule I loathe. If someone has a British passport but was not born in any of the home nations, they can choose which they want to play for. IMO eligibility should be based on heritage or birth, not passports. Which is also a reason I dislike the 'naturalisation' rule.

Even if it benefits us I still don't think it should be allowed to stand.Well if you were an independent country you'd be able to decide who is and isn't Welsh. That is exactly what the Irish government has done, including as late as 2004 in taking away the automatic right to everyone born in Ireland to be considered a citizen.


...I think you should withdraw the allegation that NI fans issued death threats against Neil Lennon...Of course it was chucky with a 20p piece. :rolleyes:


I think you'll find it's impossible for anyone from Ireland to be british. They may well be subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but they're not british. Only England, Scotland and Wales make up britain. Hence the 'and' in the full title of the UK.They are British by ethnicity and nationality, whether we like it or not. The part about the add on is an irrelevance. And as I've said before the people who consider themselves just as much British extends into the 26C. Sadly the British government does not recognise these people as British which is a disgrace IMO.

But equally in this disputed part of the world, there are almost 50% who are Irish, and for many they feel that the NI is a British team which they support or play for as second choice.

[Not Brazil]

I have another problem with the reluctance of the IFA to move away from windsor park

You'll have no problem then.

My problem is the haste in which the IFA are leaving Windsor Park.;)

You mustn't be aware that the IFA have served notice (via their solicitors) of their intention to leave Windsor Park in January 2008.

This haste is ending up with them being brought to the High Court by Linfield FC.

Suffice to say that relationships between Linfield FC and the IFA are, erm, somewhat strained at present.

[lopez]

...Your claims are spurious - like me claiming that all ROI must be racist because someone unknown issued threats to black members of Brian Kerr's ROI squad...I'm sure you remember that...What a truly ridiculous statement! Someone suggests that it was one, possibly two, maybe ten NI fans that threatened Neil Lennon - hardly surprising really as he had been booed by a sizeable chunk of NI fans at a previous match, or did they all stop off at WP from release from Magheraberry Prison before going to a UFF meeting - and you compare this with suggesting 'all ROI must be racist because someone unknown issued threats to black members of Brian Kerr's ROI squad'. Maybe it was an Irish fan who threatened the black players - STOP PRESS!!! Ireland might have some racists who also follow football - but when was the last time a black player was booed by Irish fans because of his colour?

[jmurphyc]

Not Brazil, if these fans weren't NI fans then who were they? Did the IFA launch an investigation to ensure that they never set foot in Windsor Park again? Seeing as these people were at the game, I have to assume that they were. Maybe they weren't fans, but there's a good chance they were.

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just wondering what the IFA did to ensure that a similar situation doesn't occur again.

[Not Brazil]

Of course it was chucky with a 20p piece. :rolleyes:


The fact is, you don't know who it was.

You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it was a Northern Ireland fan or fans.

If you have any evidence whatsoever, I challenge you to post it now.

[jmurphyc]

The fact is, you don't know who it was.

You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it was a Northern Ireland fan or fans.

If you have any evidence whatsoever, I challenge you to post it now.

And you have absolutely no evidence that it wasn't. I know the argument is usually innocent until proven guilty, but seeing as it occurred at an NI game most people would naturally assume that it was NI fans.

[Not Brazil]

That reminds me of the comment on Eircom league forum by some saying those fans of bohemian who wrecked that pub in Derry are not bohemian fans.

The difference being, of course, that those responsible for the pub attack in Londonderry were caught, put before the courts, and convicted.

[Not Brazil]

And you have absolutely no evidence that it wasn't. I know the argument is usually innocent until proven guilty, but seeing as it occurred at an NI game most people would naturally assume that it was NI fans.

Let's stick with "innocent until guilty" eh?:rolleyes:

If assumption is to be the basis of guilt, I'm not so sure that's a path any of us want to go down.

Happy with me making the following assumptions, are you?

Black members of the ROI squad receive telephone threats. Therefore, it must have been a Republic Of Ireland fan. Therefore, Republic Of Ireland fans are racist. Therefore I couldn't go to a Republic Of Ireland game.

Nah - didn't think so!

Assumption is not a good basis for conviction - hard evidence is required. You, nor nobody else, has any evidence whatsoever that a Northern Ireland fan (s) was responsible.

The death threat didn't happen "at a Northern Ireland game".

The phonecall was made from a phonebox miles from any Northern Ireland game, by a person (s) unknown.

Stick with facts, not assumptions.

[jmurphyc]

Let's stick with "innocent until guilty" eh?:rolleyes:

If assumption is to be the basis of guilt, am not so sure that's a path any of us want to go down.

Assumption is not a good basis for conviction - hard evidence is required. You, no nobody else, has any evidence whatsoever that a Northern Ireland fan (s) were responsible.

The death threat didn't happen "at a Northern Ireland game".

The phonecall was made from a phonebox miles from any Northern Ireland game, by a person (s) unknown.

Stick with facts, not assumptions.

The booing did happen at an NI game though. Was that not NI fans???

[Blanchflower]

That reminds me of the comment on Eircom league forum by some saying those fans of bohemian who wrecked that pub in Derry are not bohemian fans. Grow a pair of balls and admit to it that the people associated with a particular side of your support for your team. Next you will be saying it was sinners and the IRA, actually I bet that has been said already somewhere.....

It's not like that at all. The pub-wreckers were clearly Bohemian fans by their own admission and by the fact that they had travelled to watch Bohemians playing in Derry.

No-one knows who issued the Lennon death threat.

[Cymro]

It's got everything to do with sovereignty. You started banging on about this and that country handing out caps to all and sundry. These countries can still do that if these players live there for more than two years. This rule favours the rich countries with the strong leagues which doesn't count Ireland amongst them. However, these countries (Qatar being the obvious) do not hand out citizenship to the criminals, the peadophiles, the spongers of people living in the territory/country that they have done so to a few gifted footballers. Ireland gives citizenship to everyone born in the O6C regardless of who they are, and the occupying government of the O6C fully accept and agree to that. That's the difference.

And you've completely missed my point. FIFA decides what rules international football follows, not a political document. If these Northern Irish-born players wanted to play for the Republic that badly they'd move down there and serve a period of residence. It's not particularly difficult. The fact that most choose not to implies to me that most don't really care that much which of the two Irish teams they represent as long as they have a good chance of getting to a tournament and doing well on the international stage. With the ROI enjoying the greater success in recent history, you'd expect a few defections.


And the country is called the Republic of Ireland just as France is called the Republic of France. There's no difference, and until NI gets independence, I can't see the confusion. Only exception is when football is being played, but this has nothing to do with the validity of Ireland to pick its citizens to play for it.


Well if you were an independent country you'd be able to decide who is and isn't Welsh. That is exactly what the Irish government has done, including as late as 2004 in taking away the automatic right to everyone born in Ireland to be considered a citizen.

See above argument re: political independence being moot when it comes to football. In fact, I've said the same thing several times in this thread and am not getting through to the nationalist zealots here. If you're just going to bang your nationalist drum, kindly do it in response to someone else's post.

This also serves as a reply for the second quote. Northern Ireland isn't an independent country politically speaking. Politically speaking, it is part of the UK. However, in football terms it is a footballing nation.

What part of this do some people not get?

[Blanchflower]

Well, from a political point of view, yes of course I would. From a football point of view, no. I don't see why that's odd. I'm only saying that I'd pay more attention to the GFA because you seem to be alluding to the fact that they have no right to consider themselves Irish by saying that they have no 'connections' to Ireland.

Well we're discussing football!

I have never alluded that people from NI don't have the right to consider themselves Irish. What a preposterous concept.

[Blanchflower]

I think you'll find it's impossible for anyone from Ireland to be british. They may well be subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but they're not british. Only England, Scotland and Wales make up britain. Hence the 'and' in the full title of the UK.

Don't be silly. "British" relates to the UK.

[Not Brazil]

Not Brazil, if these fans weren't NI fans then who were they? Did the IFA launch an investigation to ensure that they never set foot in Windsor Park again? Seeing as these people were at the game, I have to assume that they were. Maybe they weren't fans, but there's a good chance they were.

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just wondering what the IFA did to ensure that a similar situation doesn't occur again.

Are you talking about the death threat issued to Neil Lennon, or the booing of Neil Lennon at the game versus Norway?

[Blanchflower]

The tricolour is a 32 county flag whether you like it or not, it was designed before partition and the colours represent both traditions on the island and peace between them as I'm sure you already know.

Amhrán na bhFiann was also written long before partition and also pertained to the 32 counties. Interestingly enough it was originally written in English and only translated in the 1920's. It certainly represents more then the 26 counties and did so since 1912 when it was first published, although it was being sung for a number of years before that across the entire island long before the border had been concocted.

It's not a 32-county flag - it's the flag of the Republic. When it was designed is irrelevant. Ditto "Amran na Fan".

By your logic the Union Flag is the flag of the whole British Isles, and GSTQ the anthem of the whole British Isles!

[Réiteoir]

Are you talking about the death threat issued to Neil Lennon, or the booing of Neil Lennon at the game versus Norway?

I knew it - it was those subhuman FK Bodø/Glimt supporters and their Anti-Gingerist agenda.

Safe to say - a file detailing these findings will be winging it's way to the Norwegian Football Federation in Oslo first thing tomorrow

[Not Brazil]

Not Brazil, if these fans weren't NI fans then who were they? Did the IFA launch an investigation to ensure that they never set foot in Windsor Park again? Seeing as these people were at the game, I have to assume that they were. Maybe they weren't fans, but there's a good chance they were.

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just wondering what the IFA did to ensure that a similar situation doesn't occur again.

I presume you mean the booing at the game against Norway.

Well, let's cut to the chase....I'll not bore you to death with all the IFA did/do, in conjunction with the Northern Ireland fans who were deeply offended by what happened to Neil Lennon.

I ask you to accept the words of the victim of the abuse - Mr Neil Lennon - spoken in February of this year.

He said:

"Fans like XXXXX are unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games. (They) have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games the envy of fans across not only Europe but world football. I would personnally like to thank them for efforts."

"When I look at Windsor Park now,it seems a real fun place with a brilliant atmosphere".

[kingdomkerry]

:DFor anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!

ireland is represented by 32 two counties. "Northern Ireland" represents 6 counties (when players from there dont want to play for Ireland)

The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.

Thats the way it is so those that cant accept it. Tough ****e!!!

[Not Brazil]

:DFor anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!


Whilst it may be a stick you like to beat Northern Ireland fans with - a stick subsequently removed by Neil Lennon himself - you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it was a Northern Ireland fan (s) responsible.

Pure speculation, without substance.

I could speculate that it was a Glasgow Rangers fan - but I have absolutely no basis whatsoever to back up that speculation.

Nobody knows - and nobody will know until the perpetrators are caught, charged, tried and convicted.

I sincerely hope that day comes - I detest the vermin responsible, whoever he/she/they are.

[SkStu]

:DFor anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!

ireland is represented by 32 two counties. "Northern Ireland" represents 6 counties (when players from there dont want to play for Ireland)

The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.

Thats the way it is so those that cant accept it. Tough ****e!!!

great post.

I actually wish this thread would be closed until this becomes an issue again or there are any further developments in this area as it serves no purpose other than ridiculous, boring, circular arguments between two sets of ideals that will never cede any ground to the other.

by the way, anyone who suggests that it wasnt a NI fan who issued death threats to Lennon is either a WUM or an imbecile or more likely both.

[geysir]

:DFor anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!
Speak for yourself
There was clearly a nasty poisonous campaign by ultra loyalists against Lennon before he arrived for that game. Regardless, Lennon turned up and played 45 mins. in the context of widespread grafitti death threats he turned up and got booed.
The fans of NI made their feelings known immediatly after that and their positive response has determined on how they should be judged.

[Not Brazil]

by the way, anyone who suggests that it wasnt a NI fan who issued death threats to Lennon is either a WUM or an imbecile or more likely both.

And...you have evidence to prove this, do you?:rolleyes:

Name (s), Supporters Club, etc

PM me with it, if you do.

I will forward it immediately to the PSNI and the IFA.

I presume you agreed with The Birmingham Six's "conviction" - on the basis that because they were Irish, they were "assumed" to be IRA terrorists?:eek:

Nah - didn't think so.:rolleyes:

[SkStu]

And...you have evidence to prove this, do you?:rolleyes:

Name (s), Supporters Club, etc

PM me with it, if you do.

I will forward it immediately to the PSNI and the IFA.

I presume you agreed with The Birmingham Six's "conviction" - on the basis that because they were Irish, they were "assumed" to be IRA terrorists?:eek:

Nah - didn't think so.:rolleyes:

i repeat, anyone who says it was not or not likely to be a NI fan is a WUM or an imbecile. Answer honestly, do you really believe that the person who threatened to murder Neil Lennon was not a NI fan with a big problem with catholics representing his "country"?

the rest of your post is irrelevant waffle designed to provoke.

[Not Brazil]

i repeat, anyone who says it was not or not likely to be a NI fan is a WUM or an imbecile. Answer honestly, do you really believe that the person who threatened to murder Neil Lennon was not a NI fan with a big problem with catholics representing his "country"?

the rest of your post is irrelevant waffle designed to provoke.

I am not a WUM, and I don't think I'm an imbecile.

I honestly don't know who was responsible - nobody does.

If the person (s) responsible had a problem with "Catholics" playing for Northern Ireland, I don't understand why they waited until Neil Lennon had made several appearances for Northern Ireland (without incident) before issuing the threat, or why they didn't issue the threat to any of the other "Catholic" players on the Northern Ireland team at that time.

"Catholics" play for Northern Ireland at all levels - and always will.

The team was recently captained by another "Catholic".

All Northern Ireland players are supported fully by Northern Ireland fans - their religious beliefs are irrelevant.

Nobody gives a flying one where a player choses to say his prayers - or even if they say any at all.

The rest of my post was not designed to "provoke".

It was designed to highlight the fact that to presume guilt, without sound evidence, is a very dangerous game indeed.

[SkStu]

I am not a WUM, and I don't think I'm an imbecile.

I honestly don't know who was responsible - nobody does.

If the person (s) responsible had a problem with "Catholics" playing for Northern Ireland, I don't understand why they waited until Neil Lennon had made several appearances for Northern Ireland (without incident) before issuing the threat, or why they didn't issue the threat to any of the other "Catholic" players on the Northern Ireland team at that time.

"Catholics" play for Northern Ireland at all levels - and always will.

The team was recently captained by another "Catholic".

All Northern Ireland players are supported fully by Northern Ireland fans - their religious beliefs are irrelevant.

Nobody gives a flying one where a player choses to say his prayers - or even if they say any at all.

The rest of my post was not designed to "provoke".

It was designed to highlight the fact that to presume guilt, without sound evidence, is a very dangerous game indeed.

no, its irrelevant. In the case of the Birmingham 6, there were 6 suspects who were convicted. Here there are no suspects. There is no-one in particular that i am assuming guilty. So it is not a good analogy. What i am saying is that the guilty party were from a particular place and of a particular persuasion. I think thats a fair assumption to make in such a case. Do you think the PSNI got together and were trying to figure this out and dismissed or downplayed the possibility that it was a fan from the North who holds cetain beliefs as you and a few others are trying to do?

the only thing ill retract from my original post is the use of the word catholic. Ill use the term "Celtic captain" instead.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Don't be silly. "British" relates to the UK.

How so? The UK has always specifically separated out the constituent parts, it was the UK of Great Britain and Ireland until independence and partition where it became Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ireland, either North or South has ever been considered part of Britain. Those are the bare facts.

Unionists have always liked to call themselves British but most of them have never lived in Britain in their lives. As I've said I recognise they're from the UK but British relates to Britain of which the 6 counties are not a part. It may be commonly referred to as such in certain circles but that doesn't make it correct.

Brit·ish /ˈbrɪtɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[brit-ish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to Great Britain or its inhabitants.
2. used esp. by natives or inhabitants of Great Britain: In this dictionary, “Brit.” is an abbreviation for “British usage.”
–noun
3. the people native to or inhabiting Great Britain.

[Drumcondra 69er]

If the person (s) responsible had a problem with "Catholics" playing for Northern Ireland, I don't understand why they waited until Neil Lennon had made several appearances for Northern Ireland (without incident) before issuing the threat, or why they didn't issue the threat to any of the other "Catholic" players on the Northern Ireland team at that time.

All Northern Ireland players are supported fully by Northern Ireland fans - their religious beliefs are irrelevant.

Nobody gives a flying one where a player choses to say his prayers - or even if they say any at all.


Yes you do understand. You know full well that the NI crowd turned on Lennon after he joined Celtic and frankly you're embarrassing yourself to suggest otherwise.

The rest of your post quoted is ******, they're fully supported by NI fans unless they're perceived to flaunt their religion by something like playing for a certain team. The way Lennon was treated by the Windsor Park crowd over a sustained period long before the death threats was a pure disgrace and to be honest you seem to be in complete denial over it.

[Not Brazil]

What i am saying is that the guilty party were from a particular place and of a particular persuasion. I think thats a fair assumption to make in such a case. Do you think the PSNI got together and were trying to figure this out and dismissed or downplayed the possibility that it was a fan from the North who holds cetain beliefs as you and a few others are trying to do?

the only thing ill retract from my original post is the use of the word catholic. Ill use the term "Celtic captain" instead.

What I'm suggesting is that you are making assumptions, without any modicum of evidence whatsoever.

Assumptions don't cut it.

You don't know who issued the threats - neither do I - and neither do the PSNI.

I keep an open mind.

It could well have been a, so called, Northern Ireland fan (s) - I doubt most other Northern Ireland fans would consider the perpetrator (s) to be a "fan"...an enemy of the Northern Ireland team, more like.

It could have been a Rangers fan (s) - see your reference to "Celtic Captain".

It could have been an England fan - the favoured international team of choice amongst many ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

It could have been a Celtic fan - disgusted at a Celtic player captaining "the six county statelet".

It could have been a Mansfield Town fan.

It could just have been a deranged nutter.

Truth is - I don't know. Neither do you.

Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

There are bad *******s amongst most fanbases - including those of Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.

Let me be clear:

Whoever did it - I hope they are caught, charged, tried, and convicted. They are vermin.

[shaneker]

Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

There are bad *******s amongst most fanbases - including those of Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.

I have largely ignored this forum as its just become a badly-disguised political slanging match which could probably go on for another thousand years, but this REALLY irritates me. What with your earlier mention of kingdomkerry's 'bigotry', your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne and now throwing 'bigotry' at posters on here for concluding - not unreasonably, given the circumstances - that NI fans were responsible for what happened to Neil Lennon, you are continually implying that there are just a few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of you, as if your fans are just the same as ours.

Which is WRONG. We don't throw sectarian slogans into our pre-game anthem. We have no history of booing our own players due to their religious persuasion. And I'm fairly certain that none of our players have ever been threatened with violence immedietly before a match if they decide to play. While I'm not disputing that kingdomkerry is at best ineloquant and at worst inflammatory (it depends on individual beliefs) and that any racist discrimination of any player is absolutely deplorable, the idea that Irish fans are displaying 'bigotry' by attatching these negative labels to NI supporters falls down on the grounds that you have not yet done anything near enough to abolish them. People attatch negative labels to England fans; why? Because they warrant them (listen to the opposing team's national anthem next time England play at Wembley to see what I mean, their match with Germany was a perfect example) and while they may have improved over recent years that does not mean that all is forgotten and they can begin to point the finger at other sets of supporters - which is what you are trying to do. When I hear of NI fans of all backgrounds signing petitions, sending emails and generally showing some legitimate desire to replace the current anthem and the current NI flag in a genuine attempt to make NI a truly cross-community team, then I will be forced to reconsider my view. Our support has minor problems, of course, like the overwhelming majority of fanbases in international football. But stop comparing our misdemeanours to yours because, to be honest, you've been on a way higher level than us on that score for a long, long time.

(I agree with SkStu regarding this thread, I think it should be closed until FIFA give us some indication of what their decision will be. The past few pages have had feck all to do with football.)

[Maroon 7]

And you've completely missed my point. FIFA decides what rules international football follows, not a political document. If these Northern Irish-born players wanted to play for the Republic that badly they'd move down there and serve a period of residence. It's not particularly difficult. The fact that most choose not to implies to me that most don't really care that much which of the two Irish teams they represent as long as they have a good chance of getting to a tournament and doing well on the international stage. With the ROI enjoying the greater success in recent history, you'd expect a few defections


What are you on about?

You expect kids to move south from NI for 2 years so they can qualify even though most teenagers are already at clubs at that age. Let alone uprooting them away from their family or schooling. And you say it's not particularly difficult if they really wanted to play for the ROI? What colour is the sky in your world?

[SkStu]

What I'm suggesting is that you are making assumptions, without any modicum of evidence whatsoever.

Assumptions don't cut it..

im sorry but that is garbage. Nothing would be proven in any aspect of life without an initial assumption. Sometimes an assumption is wrong but sometimes it is bang on the money. Im willing to take the chance that im right on this one. You can continue to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears.


Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

I simply stated that due to the actions of some NI fans in Windsor Park in the past (ROI game in 93, previous booing of Lennon etc) I am sure that it was a (possibly mentally unstable) NI fan who threatened to murder Neil Lennon because he played for Celtic. I am not broadbrushing anyone or anything, i am just voicing my opinion on this issue based on the circumstances. None of the alternatives in your post seem to be more likely than my own opinion.

I have no doubts that the threats disgusted you. I would expect nothing less from anyone.

[bennocelt]

As for the 'NI isn't a country' chestnut. Footballing and political definitions of a nation aren't the same. Greenland, as well as plenty of areas under Chinese political influence, such as Macau or Hong Kong, wouldn't be considered political states, as, equally, would Northern Ireland, and Wales, Scotland and England not be. However, in terms of football, all of the above are considered national teams. This status is given to them by FIFA. So for the purposes of this debate they are countries.


No, my point is why should they have a right if they weren't born there, or qualify through a parent or grandparent?

Also, for God's sake try and stop being so biased. There is no national team named Ireland, and I think you can be grown-up enough to call Northern Ireland by its actual name rather than referring to it as 'the six counties'.

:

jeez! heh you know they teach Northern Irish history in schools in Wales now, were you just on the mitch those days:rolleyes:

the point is many people in NI (or the six counties) dont consider themselves British but consider themselves Irish....in the sense that they support the Republic and would love to play for them
and guess what! The good friday agreement agrees with them, and they are entitled to have passports of the ROI

for the Unionists to admit this would question their whole identity and that would open a whole new can of worms, so its easy just to go with it

Im sure that this case wouldnt hold up in a court of law

and Cymro once again you have shown your ignorance on irish matters,
cant wait to see you next year for the early rounds of the uefa/cl cups where you talk donw irish teams and tell us how great Welsh football is (again):rolleyes:

[Blanchflower]

Unionists have always liked to call themselves British but most of them have never lived in Britain in their lives. As I've said I recognise they're from the UK but British relates to Britain of which the 6 counties are not a part. It may be commonly referred to as such in certain circles but that doesn't make it correct.


Sorry, but "British" relates to the UK and, indeed, even places outside the UK, e.g. Channel Islands, Isle of Man. Even the British Isles! It relates to places within the UK but outside Great Britain, e.g. the Shetland Islands, the Hebrides, Northern Ireland, etc., etc.





Im sure that this case wouldnt hold up in a court of law



Really? What court and on what grounds?

[Blanchflower]

ireland is represented by 32 two counties.


Except there's no Ireland football team. The ROI team represents 26 counties.



The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.



No - the tricolour is the flag of the Republic, i.e. 26 counties. Ditto "Amran na fan". There's not "united Ireland" yet, you know!

[Not Brazil]

Yes you do understand. You know full well that the NI crowd turned on Lennon after he joined Celtic and frankly you're embarrassing yourself to suggest otherwise.

The rest of your post quoted is ******, they're fully supported by NI fans unless they're perceived to flaunt their religion by something like playing for a certain team. The way Lennon was treated by the Windsor Park crowd over a sustained period long before the death threats was a pure disgrace and to be honest you seem to be in complete denial over it.

Far from "being in denial about it", I can assure you that the evening in question was the most sickening evening of my footballing life - I was sick to the pit of my stomach.

You seem to be in denial about the changes that have been made - glowingly praised by Neil Lennon himself.

[Not Brazil]

im sorry but that is garbage. Nothing would be proven in any aspect of life without an initial assumption. Sometimes an assumption is wrong but sometimes it is bang on the money. Im willing to take the chance that im right on this one. You can continue to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears

You seem to have a closed mind on what happened.

The truth, that you cannot face up to, is that you know no more than I do about who was behind the death threat.

In your haste to vilify Northern Ireland fans, it suits you to believe that you "are on the money".

You simply don't know.

[Absinthe]

:DFor anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!

ireland is represented by 32 two counties. "Northern Ireland" represents 6 counties (when players from there dont want to play for Ireland)

The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.

Thats the way it is so those that cant accept it. Tough ****e!!!

I suggest you read your countrys own constitution since the GFA. What utter, utter drivel your are now spurting.

I see that this thread has now descended into pettyness as you look set to loose this case. I can only hope that is still the case.

On the Neil Lennon thing, something someone said at the time still rings true for me, "Whoever phoned in that message, was no fan of Northern Ireland football. Look at the state of our Midfield without him."

I cant tell you whether the perpretrator supports Northern Ireland or not, but it was still a random nutjob that did this.

What have the IFA done since this? They have appointed a Community Relations officer - Michael Boyd. They have launched the Football for All campaign, they have added CCTV to the stadium, and now record the name and Address of everyone who has received a ticket. They have handed out leaflets at matches stating that they will remove anyone from the stadium who is booing their own players.

What did the FAI do, when a large section of your crowd hurled sectarian abuse at a young Danish player (his name escapes me), because they thought he was Peter Lovenkrands, the former Rangers player?

And "ireland is represented by 32 two counties". Yes, thats why you are the Republic of Ireland. You represent 24 Counties on the Island of Ireland. This why I am confident you will not be allowed to pick players from Northern Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

[QUOTE=shanekerins;804665 your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne
[/QUOTE]

You're making things up.

Nowhere have I stated that black players were booed at Lansdowne.

Please desist misrepresenting what I say.

On the death threats - like everyone else on this board, including myself, you don't know who was behind them.

If you do, I ask you to detail your evidence.

[Absinthe]

I have largely ignored this forum as its just become a badly-disguised political slanging match which could probably go on for another thousand years, but this REALLY irritates me. What with your earlier mention of kingdomkerry's 'bigotry', your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne and now throwing 'bigotry' at posters on here for concluding - not unreasonably, given the circumstances - that NI fans were responsible for what happened to Neil Lennon, you are continually implying that there are just a few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of you, as if your fans are just the same as ours.

Which is WRONG. We don't throw sectarian slogans into our pre-game anthem. We have no history of booing our own players due to their religious persuasion. And I'm fairly certain that none of our players have ever been threatened with violence immedietly before a match if they decide to play. While I'm not disputing that kingdomkerry is at best ineloquant and at worst inflammatory (it depends on individual beliefs) and that any racist discrimination of any player is absolutely deplorable, the idea that Irish fans are displaying 'bigotry' by attatching these negative labels to NI supporters falls down on the grounds that you have not yet done anything near enough to abolish them. People attatch negative labels to England fans; why? Because they warrant them (listen to the opposing team's national anthem next time England play at Wembley to see what I mean, their match with Germany was a perfect example) and while they may have improved over recent years that does not mean that all is forgotten and they can begin to point the finger at other sets of supporters - which is what you are trying to do. When I hear of NI fans of all backgrounds signing petitions, sending emails and generally showing some legitimate desire to replace the current anthem and the current NI flag in a genuine attempt to make NI a truly cross-community team, then I will be forced to reconsider my view. Our support has minor problems, of course, like the overwhelming majority of fanbases in international football. But stop comparing our misdemeanours to yours because, to be honest, you've been on a way higher level than us on that score for a long, long time.

(I agree with SkStu regarding this thread, I think it should be closed until FIFA give us some indication of what their decision will be. The past few pages have had feck all to do with football.)

Heres the definition of defamation :- (wheres tuff paddy when you need him?)


There are two versions of defamation, libel and slander. Libel is when the defamation is written down (including email, bulletin boards and websites), and slander is when the incident relates to words spoken.

In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it!


So, if you are going to continue claiming that it was a Northern Ireland fan that phoned the police, please provide your evidence.

FYI, and if I remember correctly, the call was eventually traced back to Portadown, and was attributed to the LVF*. It was also placed around 30 minutes before kickoff, so I can confidently state, there is no chance in hell that the vermin that placed this call was in the Windsor Park crowd that night.

Another thing worth noting, is that this type of event was not unique to Neil Lennon. What changed this time, was the recommendation of the RUC, was that he shouldnt play.

I wonder what your opinions are of the IRA setting a bomb off just outside Windsor after a game, or them threatening to kill George Best if he ever played for Northern Ireland? Just a bit o'craic?

But sure, dont let facts get in the way of slagging anything connected to the "occupied six counties".

*Many of this group of uberprods actually support England. If you dont believe me, then I would suggest you look at the runup to our match against England at Windsor, when Adams and Co didnt know who was the lesser evil, and the vermin that is Billy Hutchinson was parading about proudly in his England shirt.

[Blanchflower]

What have the IFA done since this? They have appointed a Community Relations officer - Michael Boyd. They have launched the Football for All campaign, they have added CCTV to the stadium, and now record the name and Address of everyone who has received a ticket. They have handed out leaflets at matches stating that they will remove anyone from the stadium who is booing their own players.



The IFA had a community relations officer in place long before the Lennon incident and the FFA campaign had also been going before then. You do the IFA a disservice - it was already actively trying to stamp out sectarianism before this.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Far from "being in denial about it", I can assure you that the evening in question was the most sickening evening of my footballing life - I was sick to the pit of my stomach.

You seem to be in denial about the changes that have been made - glowingly praised by Neil Lennon himself.

You're missing the point I'm making. Lennon was routinely booed prior to the death threat and treated despicibly by some NI fans, particulalry the Norway game. This abuse began when he joined Celtic. You seem unable to accept this. It wasn't just one incident on one evening.

I'm well aware that this was a section of the crowd and that decent minded NI fans (including yourself I'm sure) were disgusted by it but the fact remains that prior to the death threat he was given serious abuse by a large section of the NI support. It's not that hard a leap to conclude that the neanderthal that issued the threat was also an NI 'fan'.

While the IFA have done great work in tackling the sectarianism that blighted football north of the border for so long the past can't just be brushed under the carpet much as you'd like it too. Hence your denail.

[galwayhoop]

So, if you are going to continue claiming that it was a Northern Ireland fan that phoned the police, please provide your evidence.

FYI, and if I remember correctly, the call was eventually traced back to Portadown, and was attributed to the LVF".
and your evidence that it was the LVF please.

regardless of what ye lads say here it is generally accepted worldwide that he was booed by his own fans and had to stop playing as his life was threatened by his fans. there may be no proof available but that is what is generally accepted. live with it.


I wonder what your opinions are of the IRA setting a bomb off just outside Windsor after a game, or them threatening to kill George Best if he ever played for Northern Ireland? Just a bit o'craic?

But sure, dont let facts get in the way of slagging anything connected to the "occupied six counties".

juvenile. what do you think about greysteel? this thread is about FOOTBALL not the "TROUBLES"

[paul_oshea]

if it really were an all-inclusive team, then for now at least until something is sorted mutually, lets just talk hypothetically here, but tricolours and union jacks should be allowed, and amhrain na bfiann should be played along with god save the queen, but lets be honest that would never happen as your supporters and people in power would never want it, even though it includes every single person in the 6 counties.

[Blanchflower]

You're missing the point I'm making. Lennon was routinely booed prior to the death threat and treated despicibly by some NI fans, particulalry the Norway game.


That's a lie. Lennon was not "routinely booed" - he was booed at only one match.

[eirebhoy]

What has this thread turned into? I haven't been following it in days so is there any good reason to keep it open? Bare in mind the title of the topic and the forum it's in.

[Blanchflower]

if it really were an all-inclusive team, then for now at least until something is sorted mutually, lets just talk hypothetically here, but tricolours and union jacks should be allowed, and amhrain na bfiann should be played along with god save the queen, but lets be honest that would never happen as your supporters and people in power would never want it, even though it includes every single person in the 6 counties.

Why would the anthem and flag of a different country be played and flown? Is the English flag flown alongside the Scottish flag at Scotland games?

You're mad.

[Kingdom]

Why would the anthem and flag of a different country be played and flown? Is the English flag flown alongside the Scottish flag at Scotland games?

You're mad.

You could make the point the Nationalists feel you are occupying their country and subjecting your culture onto them whilst not respecting theirs whatsoever?

Also is your analogy not a bit odd? I'm sure Scotland and Northern Ireland are on the same level within the UK, yet Scotland fly their own flag at games and use their own anthem. The North don't?

This thread should be closed now or posts such as this (and my own) moved to off-topic.